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viasa
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:29 pm

Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Thu May 25, 2006 10:42 pm

Hello Everyone,

It came to my attention that Atlas Air is planning to get rid of its 747classics very soon.

Presently the Atlas/Polar-Group operates roughly 20 747classics (mostly on own business, some wet-leased to other carriers).

As far as I can see there is no chance for modern replacements.

There are just a few 747-400s out in the desert that might be converted but which can not replace older 747s in the near future.

Is the Atlas/Polar-Group down-sizing or are there any indications that the management tries to replace this capacity in the mid-run or maybe with other types?

Fleet of Atlas Air
Fleet of Polar Air Cargo

Best Regards
 
tozairport
Posts: 463
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:01 am

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Fri May 26, 2006 12:21 am

Going theory/rumor is that Polar is being set up for as an aquisition target, possibly by UA. That would take care of the capacity issues...
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
 
remcor
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:25 am

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Fri May 26, 2006 12:45 am

The word "Classic" sounds much better than the word "old" doesn't it?

I have a 'classic' 1991 Nissian Pickup truck with 230,000 miles on it.
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Fri May 26, 2006 1:25 am

No it's not downsizing. When 2 companies merge they trim out the fat, it's standard practice. A few pilots(not for long) and planes will be removed. I think they plan on being an all 744 fleet soon. They expect to start buying 744s in 2007. It looks like Polar will take the hit more than Atlas.
 
waterpolodan
Posts: 1605
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:46 pm

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Fri May 26, 2006 1:34 am

That's actually too bad from a spotter's point of view, I always enjoyed seeing the frequent 742's flown by both carriers into MIA, it seems there was always at least one parked next to Le Jeune rd., across the runway from the AA hangar.
 
satx
Posts: 2771
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:26 am

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Fri May 26, 2006 2:31 am

Saw some Polar 747's being overhauled in SAT last year. They weren't 744's if IIRC.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
CX747
Posts: 5566
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Fri May 26, 2006 2:35 am

Atlas/Polar's plan is to operate a 747-400 fleet. The "Classic" freighters will be returned to lessors or parked within several years. I would assume that in the -200Fs place, 400BCFs would be purchased. You could also see Atlas purchase second hand 747-400Fs from carriers that are switching over to the 747-8F.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
cha747
Posts: 753
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:07 pm

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Fri May 26, 2006 4:33 am

Has Atlas ordered any new a/c recently? I heard (and this is a rumor from a reliable source but I cannot confirm it) that Atlas is/was considering a 777-200LR Frighter order. Can anybody confirm this?
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
cha747
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RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Sat May 27, 2006 1:06 pm

Well...are they or are they not getting the 777-200LRF?
You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8538
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Sat May 27, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 8):
Well...are they or are they not getting the 777-200LRF?

They aren't... and Boeing has a dedicated web page to answering such questions:

User Defined Search

Boeing 777F customers:

Air Canada - 2
Air France - 5
Avion Group - 8
Emirates - 8

Total - 23
 
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PanAm_DC10
Crew
Posts: 3795
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Sat May 27, 2006 3:26 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
Quoting Cha747 (Reply 8):
Well...are they or are they not getting the 777-200LRF?

They aren't... and Boeing has a dedicated web page to answering such questions:

But it doesn't answer such questions in their entirity in every instance.

To whom are the Avion Group leasing their 772Fs to then? No carrier has yet been named at this point in time so there are 8 available via a leasing company which may or may not end up at Atlas.

As to Atlas this site may well be able to provide an indication as to what they intend to replace their 747 Classic's with.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
A388
Posts: 7157
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Sat May 27, 2006 9:28 pm

Quoting Viasa (Thread starter):
Presently the Atlas/Polar-Group operates roughly 20 747classics (mostly on own business, some wet-leased to other carriers)

The Atlas/Polar mainly operates on behalf of other airlines, so no, they are not operated on own business. Atlas is the largest ACMI cargo airline of the world. Only Polar flies on their own, but almost all Atlas aircraft are operated on behalf of other airlines as they are specialised in ACMI leases. The biggest contract being for the U.S. military.

There already was a thread about this:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ion/read.main/2737240/6/#ID2737240

My reaction here was:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 4):
Polar and Atlas used to fly 747-200s into YHZ to pick up seafood but stopped in 2005 I guess when Icelandic started seafood operations.

I guess now that 747-200s are parked and pilots are laid off, I won't be seeing Polar or Atlas back in YHZ anytime soon.

True, I used to work for PO in AMS. During my time as a customer service/operations agent at PO, we did have scheduled flights from Canada to AMS via Scandanavia to accomodate the popular demand for salmon to Asia. These flights were later dropped due to increased competition in that region and SK Cargo also reported to start similar flights that time using 5Y wet-leased aircraft. This eventually never materialised as far as I know.

Quoting N754PR (Reply 5):
As the two are the same company it should be no problem for them to opeate a 5Y 744F when the need it.

Also true. We used to "lease" aircraft from 5Y whenever needed. As PO is owned by 5Y they can swap aircraft if the need arises even though this appeared to be difficult some times. One problem between these two companies is that they have the same owner (Atlas Inc.) but both companies have very different strategies. They are competitors to each other, which might sound strange but it isn't. 5Y's business strategy is bases on ACMI leases to other cargo airlines. These cargo airlines are their customers while these same customers are actually competitors to PO who operates in the same markets, particularly in Asia.

As for PO getting rid of their Classic 747 fleets, that also doesn't surprise me. When I worked the PO flights in AMS, we had technical problems on a regular basis. Some of these aircraft were just plagued with technical problems on a constant basis. 5Y and eventually PO will have to start looking at 744 cargo conversions as this will be the next step in the cargo industry in my opinion. The 747 Classic just has had its life, even as a cargo aircraft it is just not economical, especially with the increasingly higher fuel prices. More competitors are using modern equipment such as the 744F and 744ERF and even MD11F aircraft. These aircraft are much more fuel efficient.

Good luck to PO, I sure miss working for them.

Regards,

A388
 
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kc135topboom
Posts: 10997
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Sat May 27, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 3):
They expect to start buying 744s in 2007.

So, could Atlas/Polar also order some B-747-800F and/or B-777-200LRF? Or will they buy up some pax B-747-400s and BCF them?
 
A388
Posts: 7157
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Sat May 27, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 12):
So, could Atlas/Polar also order some B-747-800F and/or B-777-200LRF? Or will they buy up some pax B-747-400s and BCF them?

I think the latter is most likely as Atlas/PO are not that keen on buying newly built aircraft that soon. They will most likely go for conversions.

A388
 
RC135U
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 9:53 pm

RE: Atlas/Polar To Phase Out 747 Classic

Sat May 27, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Remcor (Reply 2):
I have a 'classic' 1991 Nissian Pickup truck with 230,000 miles on it.

Nah...a real Nissan "classic" would have to be a Datsun.  Wink

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