kkfla737
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Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:17 am

Delta's JFK-Paris-Chennai service is being cut to three times a week (down from daily service) between August and late October, then will return to a daily run. Any idea why the frequency cut is only temporary and how are the loads on the route. I flew MIA-CDG-MAA-CDG-MIA in January on AF/DL and the plane was completely full between Paris and Madras both ways, including first class.
 
dl1011
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:22 am

Just shooting from the hip but 2 things come to mind.
1) light pax loads and/or
2) the a/c are needed on other routes. ATL-EDI was put off for a month due to a shortage of a/c.
 
jrlander
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:23 am

Might have something to do with the retrofit of the 767 fleet.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:26 am

August through October is also low season; when you flew in January, that was peak season.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:29 am

DL clearly needs more 777-200-ER/LR a/c to effectively offer such service w/o tech/fuel stops at CDG. Direct USA-India service can be a money maker for carriers right now, but only if serviced by the right fleet. This is why AA is ahead of the game going from ORD-Delhi over the pole and Himalaya Mountains with their newer 777s.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
twal1011727
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:32 am

Don't count on anything after Aug 31 2006. The updated schedule has not been loaded in their system yet. All of DLs flts after Sept 01 2006 will probably be updated in mid Jun 06. Delta does not schedule long term anymore and are constantly looking at what will or will not make money.

Every flt/Every city is up for grabs until they finish retiring the B737-200/B767-300 fleet. After that, it should calm down a bit - maybe!

KD MLB
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 5):
Every flt/Every city is up for grabs until they finish retiring the B737-200/B767-300 fleet. After that, it should calm down a bit - maybe!

Delta is not retiring their 767-300 fleet. If you meant the 737-300 fleet, those are already gone.
 
twal1011727
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 6):
Delta is not retiring their 767-300 fleet. If you meant the 737-300 fleet, those are already gone.

sorry didn't clarify that...
DL is retiring their older ones ships 117-139...slowly...
KD MLB
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 7):
DL is retiring their older ones ships 117-139...slowly...

Where did you get that from? DL has only retired their 4 oldest 763s, and don't have any plans to retire the other non-ER 763s.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 4:10 am

And no airline has committed to serving BOM or S. Asia nonstop from the US. While the US-DEL nonstops could well be taking some traffic from DL's onestops via CDG (and those are full passenger connecting flights into an alliance hub, not just technical stops), the timing of the DEL arriving flights does not allow good connections throughout India, somewhat helping one-stop flights to S. India.

Ultimately, India will be served nonstop but it might be a little bit before that happens.

I suspect DL's move is more related to seasonality rather than aircraft issues. If they can support their current schedule during the summer, they should have no problem supporting it in the fall. No new services are being added after the summer and many of the markets that have multiple frequencies will be reduced; some seasonal markets will also be dropped. There are usually plenty of aircraft available during the winter for any modifications that could be done.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 4:11 am

Not only the low season on the Europe-India sector play a role here, I'm afraid. The increasingly liberal policies of the Government of India have brought about an veritable mushrooming in Europe-India traffic. Add to that a number of nonstops from the US and growing longhaul fleets at Indian carriers and it should become clear that the market is about to reach a saturation point of some kind.

Yields between Europe and India have taken a beating in recent seasons (premium seats are available for less than USD2,000 these days) and remain under pressure, and airlines like Delta and Northwest cannot afford to invest scarce available resources in a less than optimal way. Thus, I am not surprised by Delta's reduction on the Paris-Chennai route, nor was I surprised when Northwest shelved its planned Amsterdam-Bangalore operations. The analysts at both airlines have obviously done their homework and have come to the conclusion that a more lucrative deployment of the airframes elsewhere in the network is possible. I wouldn't be surprised at all that more reductions are about to follow.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Dl1011 (Reply 1):
Just shooting from the hip but 2 things come to mind.
1) light pax loads and/or

August is the peak season for travel from India to US.....school/Univ. openings and end of holidays...a lot of Indian students heading to the US.....US based Indians in India, heading back home after an Indian vacation....
 
rwsea
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 4):
DL clearly needs more 777-200-ER/LR a/c to effectively offer such service w/o tech/fuel stops at CDG. Direct USA-India service can be a money maker for carriers right now, but only if serviced by the right fleet. This is why AA is ahead of the game going from ORD-Delhi over the pole and Himalaya Mountains with their newer 777s.

DL could fly JFK-DEL or maybe even ATL-DEL nonstop if they wanted with their current fleet.

However, the 777ER doesn't have the range to reach Bombay or Madras. Unless DL or anyone else gets 777LR's, they won't be able to fly nonstop to these cities from the US.

That said, DL would be dumb to pick DEL as their next Indian destination because they would be competing with nonstops on UA and CO. IMHO, DL should look at BLR if they want to expand further in India.
 
pnqiad
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 5:05 am

They are apparantly doing it due to shortage of wide-bodies.

Delta airlines to scale down services

Also some discussion about this in this thread:

Indian Aviation Thread: Part 18]

IMO, not a very smart thing to do - lot of Indian travel to-fro during this season with schools closed for summer vacations. I personally know tonnes who don't mind paying unusually high Y fares.
 
pnqiad
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
That said, DL would be dumb to pick DEL as their next Indian destination because they would be competing with nonstops on UA and CO.

I think you mean AA and CO. UA doesn't currently fly to India - non-stop or otherwise.
 
rdwootty
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 5:07 am

It may also be to do with the Monsoon would you like to be drenched daily?
 
kkfla737
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting PNQIAD (Reply 14):
Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
That said, DL would be dumb to pick DEL as their next Indian destination because they would be competing with nonstops on UA and CO.

Delta now has a pattern of dropping service to destinations and then restarting them several years later (ie. Copenhagen, Budapest, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Berlin etc). so it would make sense that they would resume service once again to Delhi. Delta served DEL from 1991 thru 1995 then planned to restart service in 2001 before 9-11 happened.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):
DL could fly JFK-DEL or maybe even ATL-DEL nonstop if they wanted with their current fleet.

However, the 777ER doesn't have the range to reach Bombay or Madras. Unless DL or anyone else gets 777LR's, they won't be able to fly nonstop to these cities from the US.

That said, DL would be dumb to pick DEL as their next Indian destination because they would be competing with non-stops on UA and CO. IMHO, DL should look at BLR if they want to expand further in India.

Which is why DL needs to get a few more 777s sooner than later (especially the 200-LR model) to cover such routes ATL or JFK-BLR as well as their forthcoming service ATL-South Africa.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
rwsea
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 16):
Delta now has a pattern of dropping service to destinations and then restarting them several years later (ie. Copenhagen, Budapest, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Berlin etc). so it would make sense that they would resume service once again to Delhi. Delta served DEL from 1991 thru 1995 then planned to restart service in 2001 before 9-11 happened.

Right - but it wouldn't make sense to go head to head with CO and AA (thanks for the correcction) when they both have nonstops, and DL has only a few 777s - plus, BOM is generally higher yielding than DEL.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 17):
Which is why DL needs to get a few more 777s sooner than later (especially the 200-LR model) to cover such routes ATL or JFK-BLR as well as their forthcoming service ATL-South Africa.

Agreed - the 777LR fits well in DL's long-range plans.
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 6:01 am

Delta's using the seasonality factor to tide over the aircraft shortage.

Summer is low season for flights to India so Chennai is going 3 weekly and Bombay is going 4 weekly. This will free a 763 that can be used to serve the summer expansion to Europe.

In the fall, Europe flights will be scaled back and India will become twice daily again - right in time for busy season.

The JFK-CDG-JFK and ATL-CDG-ATL sectors will remain as daily services.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 16):
Delta now has a pattern of dropping service to destinations and then restarting them several years later (ie. Copenhagen, Budapest, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Berlin etc)

DL didn't have nonstop DUS service before, and if they were back in HAM, I would have been on the first flight  Wink .
 
kkfla737
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 20):
DL didn't have nonstop DUS service before, and if they were back in HAM, I would have been on the first flight

I stand corrected on DUS. Regarding Hamburg they re-started and stopped service again a few years back, I want to sey in the late 1990s. Delta actually served Hamburg and Copenhagen BEFORE buying PAs routes so it was sad to see them pull out of both places.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 7):
DL is retiring their older ones ships 117-139...slowly...

No they're not, N116DL-N119DL have already been sold to HA, but N120DL-N139DL and N140LL and N1402A will remain. DL has no plans to retire its 24 active 767-300s.

Jeremy
 
jaysit
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 8:40 am

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 19):
Summer is low season for flights to India so Chennai is going 3 weekly and Bombay is going 4 weekly. This will free a 763 that can be used to serve the summer expansion to Europe.

You're joking.

Summer is when half the entire Indian diaspora in the West go home because of summer vacation for the kids, and when Indians fly West on tourism or to visit the other half of the Indian diaspora. At Newark this past Monday, Air India was sending dozens of passengers home because of overbooking. Traditionally, the months of May - September and then December-January are the big travel months. Given that Delta is one of the few players out of Chennai, and has always enjoyed high loads in its crappy Biz class out of Bom, I'm a bit surprised, but then again, flights to Europe provide quicker turn around times and higher yields.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10):
Yields between Europe and India have taken a beating in recent seasons (premium seats are available for less than USD2,000 these days)

Do tell ! The cheapest premium ticket I managed was in Premium Econ on BMI for 750 GBP. The Business was well over 1500 GBP.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 22):
No they're not, N116DL-N119DL have already been sold to HA,

These 3 aircraft are the only that DL has lost in bankruptcy and they did not necessarily want to give them up. It provided the "threshold" DL needed to know in order to not lose any further aircraft.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 23):
Do tell ! The cheapest premium ticket I managed was in Premium Econ on BMI for 750 GBP. The Business was well over 1500 GBP.

One stop services will get you from London to Mumai for a lot less. KL/NW has a GBP1,010 Z-class fare (granted, on NW's ratty DC10s between AMS and BOM), also during the peak season, and others have similar fares. Nonstop services ex LHR command of course a premium price and fares have gone up for the busy summer season, but even there yields have come down because of the increased capacity.
 
texdravid
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 23):
Given that Delta is one of the few players out of Chennai, and has always enjoyed high loads in its crappy Biz class out of Bom, I'm a bit surprised, but then again, flights to Europe provide quicker turn around times and higher yields.

Actually, it's not a surprise. Many Tamils use BA or LH for their travels, especially LH. DL routes through CDG, with fewer ongoing direct flights to the U.S. BA has the whole LGW/LHR issue hanging over itself, while LH has just about every major U.S. city covered from FRA. For those of us in DFW/IAH, LH is certainly the easiest, most convenient, and luxurious way to go to MAA.

(However, all semblance of luxury and convenience end when you touch down at "ANNA" international terminal at Meenambakkam, Madras. What an absolutely pathetic Indian airport. I've seen infected perforated bowel smell better than most Indian airports!!)
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 26):
However, all semblance of luxury and convenience end when you touch down at "ANNA" international terminal at Meenambakkam, Madras. What an absolutely pathetic Indian airport. I've seen infected perforated bowel smell better than most Indian airports!

Good one. Back in the late 90s, when Sabena still operated a thrice weekly A332 between BRU and MAA, there was exactly one toilet available in the entire airside waiting lounge (I used the term 'lounge' lightly) of the international terminal. On days when SN operated, there would be simultaneously an MH A333, an SQ B744 and the SN A332 on the ground. All sharing the same toilet. Mind you, those were light days, as Lufthansa would bring in a B744 on the other evenings of the week.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sat May 27, 2006 3:52 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 23):
Summer is when half the entire Indian diaspora in the West go home because of summer vacation for the kids, and when Indians fly West on tourism or to visit the other half of the Indian diaspora.

so THIS is why I mistook JFK for BOM in mid-July last year... duck 
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
Nimish
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sun May 28, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10):
The increasingly liberal policies of the Government of India have brought about an veritable mushrooming in Europe-India traffic. Add to that a number of nonstops from the US and growing longhaul fleets at Indian carriers and it should become clear that the market is about to reach a saturation point of some kind.

Exactly, and with the likes of BA/LH/VS/9W and even AI increasing services dramatically between India and Europe, there's little appetite for lower quality carriers like DL. If it's the same price and schedule, a lot of folks would prefer to fly LH/AI/FRA or BA/LHR over DL/CDG.

It's no longer the easy picking it used to be, and if you have a good product, you'll loose out to other "great" products.
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worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sun May 28, 2006 2:54 am

The Euro carriers will lose a great deal of business when nonstops between the US and India become much more commonplace which is what they will be within a couple years at most.

DL has done very well in India for 15 years so I don't think there is any justification that its product is inferior to any other carrier's.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sun May 28, 2006 3:15 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 30):

DL has done very well in India for 15 years so I don't think there is any justification that its product is inferior to any other carrier's.

Come on, there is absolutely no comparison between Delta's inferior Business Elite product and the likes of the British Airways Club World, and with increased offerings from India, passengers have plenty of choice of superior products at similar prices, which at the same time have come down auite a bit.

As such Delta and Northwest are bound to hit rocky roads in Europe, being outperformed by those American counterparts which are offering nonstop services and a number of European and local airlines which are offering a far superior product.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sun May 28, 2006 3:53 am

You need to check DL and NW's DOT statistics and you will see they have done quite well on their services to India. Your assertions that their service is inferior so they thus cannot make money is baseless. Every business has strong performing markets and India has been that for both DL and NW despite their corporate financial problems. That doesn't mean they will be able to stay that way without upgrading their service which you should read as nonstop vs via Europe routings rather than fancier IFE etc although both carriers are improving their premium business class offerings. I just spoke w/ an LH management employee and she rates DL's Business Elite as a better product than LH's standard business product.

And you do realize that DL serves more transatlantic cities nonstop from the US than any other US carrier having just retaken the lead from CO which DL had for a number of years post Pan Am? And DL is the largest transatlantic carrier from both sides on the Atlantic.
 
texdravid
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sun May 28, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 32):
And you do realize that DL serves more transatlantic cities nonstop from the US than any other US carrier having just retaken the lead from CO which DL had for a number of years post Pan Am? And DL is the largest transatlantic carrier from both sides on the Atlantic.

That's great if you live in CVG, ATL or JFK, three portals that DL uses to fly to Europe. However, it is LH that flies to so many U.S. airports and connects one-stop thru its FRA hub to so many places in the world, especially India. No other airline covers North America and so many cities in India like LH.

For Pete's sake, you can fly PDX-FRA-MAA if you want to!!
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
gt1
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sun May 28, 2006 7:19 am

On the subject of which non-ER 763's remain in service and which don't, last I checked it looked like this:
116 thru 120 and 122 were out of service, with 116 - 119 apparently going to Hawaiian

121 and 123 thru 139 along with 1401 - 1404 were still in service.

So that's 6 gone and 22 remaining.
 
blrBird
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sun May 28, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 33):
For Pete's sake, you can fly PDX-FRA-MAA if you want to!!

Good one  Smile
from star dust....
 
jaysit
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Sun May 28, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Texdravid (Reply 26):
For those of us in DFW/IAH, LH is certainly the easiest, most convenient, and luxurious way to go to MAA.

If youre in J or F, yes. LH Y is far from luxurious. In fact, its just plain awful.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Nimish
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Mon May 29, 2006 6:04 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 36):
LH Y is far from luxurious. In fact, its just plain awful.

I think the comparision is with DL, where LH is definitely not worse than DL. If it was with BA or SQ or TG, that would be another matter altogether.

In the end it's the overall Y experience - which is probably better on LH (CDG vs. FRA, landing directly at SFO, rather than CDG-ATL-SFO, etc.).
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Tue May 30, 2006 2:04 am

"That's great if you live in CVG, ATL or JFK, three portals that DL uses to fly to Europe. However, it is LH that flies to so many U.S. airports and connects one-stop thru its FRA hub to so many places in the world, especially India. No other airline covers North America and so many cities in India like LH. "

So I guess you're advocating a non-stop flight from JFK or ATL, right?

PJ
 
panamair
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Tue May 30, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 36):
If youre in J or F, yes. LH Y is far from luxurious. In fact, its just plain awful.

Not only Y, but LH J on the FRA-MAA route is still pretty awful - with the old seats and configuration on the 744 - definitely worse than DL's J. In the examples mentioned (SFO/DFW/IAH-FRA-MAA), only DFW-FRA features the new J seats; both SFO and IAH to FRA (on the 744 and A343 respectively) still feature the old J seats and pitch...

The only two things LH has going for it in this case is the more direct routing from some US cities as well as the presence of an F cabin.
 
gigneil
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RE: Delta Service To Chennai Being Reduced

Tue May 30, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 12):

That said, DL would be dumb to pick DEL as their next Indian destination because they would be competing with nonstops on UA and CO

UA doesn't serve DEL, to the best of my knowledge.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 18):
Agreed - the 777LR fits well in DL's long-range plans.

The 777 barely fits in DL's long range plans.... they need to get back on the right track before buying a few planes that don't really fit in.

N