keesje
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Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Mon May 29, 2006 11:42 pm

Boeing will decide by the end of June on whether to further accelerate 787 production to as many as 16 per month after continuing record demand for the new twinjet.

The rate increase is dependent on the availability of the Boeing 747-400LCF (Large Cargo Freighter) development



http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...ion+rate+may+hit+16+per+month.html

Good news!
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
EI321
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Mon May 29, 2006 11:48 pm

I would have thought that part of that desision hangs on the abilities of the 787s suppliers to maintain that rate of production. Im in no doubt that the market is there for another line.
 
NAV20
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:07 am

Phew! If they can achieve that rate of production they could theoretically clear the backlog of 350 frames in less than two years.

I said a while ago that I thought that the 787 might turn out to be this century's first DC3 Dakota. This news appears to fuel that impression.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
dbo861
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:24 am

How many airplanes per month are they currently planning on producing if they don't ramp up production?
 
pavlin
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:28 am

that doesn't mean they willl produce 16 planes each mount. they wil have the capacity to do so and if demand is there.
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:33 am

One off the line appx. every two days?? How would this rank up with other assembly lines (737 series, A320 series, etc)?
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
11Bravo
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting Dbo861 (Reply 3):
How many airplanes per month are they currently planning on producing if they don't ramp up production?

From the article linked in the thread starter:

Quote:
The initial rate will launch at four per month, rising to six per month within one year. The rate then increases to 10 per month in 2010 under the current rate acceleration plan agreed under the initial study.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:38 am

Let's hope for them that all the airlines are taking delivery of ther frames that soon... Which is not granted...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
HAJFlyer
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 7):
Let's hope for them that all the airlines are taking delivery of ther frames that soon... Which is not granted

If we see no major changes in the the current economic situation of high oil prices, robust growth and a declining US dollar, airlines will be falling over themselves to get their hands on a dreamliner.
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:50 am

NAV 20 -- Phew! If they can achieve that rate of production they could theoretically clear the backlog of 350 frames in less than two years.

I said a while ago that I thought that the 787 might turn out to be this century's first DC3 Dakota. This news appears to fuel that impression.



See NAV 20, you continue to be THE most entertaining dispensers of raw zealotry among all the usual suspects around here. Way to go!

I'd like to point out to you that --from a fully-in-service airliner standpoint anyway -- the 787 programme has done absolutely n-o-t-h-i-n-g, as of this particular point in time. Especially after all the pack of lies served up previously about the "Sonic Cruiser", under Condit and so on.

Now, by all means let's hope the plane will roll out and fly sometime soon, of course -- and in so doing let's sure hope as well that the guys and girls building the thing are way more emotionally level-headed and technically-oriented then the gang of zealots around here, for instance, because otherwise yikes would Boeing ever be in real trouble then.

But let's at least give it another few months more here, shall we. Now that finally the rubber really is starting to hit the road, for their hoped-for EIS timeline anyway.
 
brendows
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 5):
One off the line appx. every two days??

Yes, that's right.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 5):

How would this rank up with other assembly lines (737 series, A320 series, etc)?

Boeing and Airbus are delivering about 30-32 737's and A320's each month IIRC.
Later this year, the 777 will be produced at a rate of seven each month, and I believe that the A330/A340 are also produced at this rate now.
 
CaptainBob
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 1:00 am

The gigantic autoclaves for the 787 are just now beginning to come online, and it will soon become apparent if these will actually work as anticipated. The success of the autoclaves has to be a factor in deciding when a 2nd line goes forward.

Different suppliers (there are only a handful around the world) are building each of the critical autoclaves required for the different sections. Each supplier is attempting to use its own concepts on these custom machines that have never been built before. They should all be working (or not working) properly in July this year.

The stable supply of large autoclaves has always been underestimated. There are no highly capitalized players in this market, and not much experience in building large machines in general (except for a company called Thermal Equipment who have built most of the larger ones for Boeing in the past).

This situation will have to be fixed before either or Airbus or Boeing can depend on a supply chain for these multi million dollar machines that are critical to the expanded use of large single piece composites in future planes.
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 1:15 am

CaptainBob -- The gigantic autoclaves for the 787 are just now beginning to come online, and it will soon become apparent if these will actually work as anticipated.

I remember reading somewhere several months back that February '06 was when that was supposed to start happening. But no biggie if it's actually now instead though, since it really is a huge undertaking and key to the very project itself, in addition to decisions about a second line opening, as you point out.
 
hjulicher
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 1:36 am

This is more of a question, but if boeing does open a second assembly line, do you know where it will be located? This is so far fetched, but I was watching (Ñåãîäíÿ)* Sevodnja, a Russian news program, and it said that the B787 will be built in Russia, or something along the lines. I know that boeing does have facilities in Moscow, but I don't know to what extent they are collaborating with the 787 program. However, for some reason I remember that the news program said that Boeing would build the aircraft here, or some parts of it. It was defenitely substantial information, because it's bringing jobs, and it's provided a larger presence now, bigger than traditional for boeing. Can anyone support this?

Would it be possible to have two assembly lines in two continents? Would this also reduce labor costs? And possibly provide goverment support for the 787 since it's built here? Like for Aeroflot?

*Change encoding to Cyrillic (Windows) if the word looks like giberish.
LH 442
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 13):
This is more of a question, but if boeing does open a second assembly line, do you know where it will be located? This is so far fetched, but I was watching (Ñåãîäíÿ)* Sevodnja, a Russian news program, and it said that the B787 will be built in Russia, or something along the lines

It did say in the article that the second line would be at Everett.

However what you said was very interesting indeed!
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting CaptainBob (Reply 11):
Each supplier is attempting to use its own concepts on these custom machines that have never been built before.

Actually, autoclaves like these have been in use ever since the B-2 stealth bomber was 'boken' back in the mid eighties. Or take the composite wings Boeing designed and produced for the Navy A-6 SWIP program in the late eighties.

Plenty of time has passed since then and a plethora of programs and projects contributed to the composite structures design data base, manufacturing process know-how and cost reduction efforts that culminated into the 787. Finally it had to happen.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 4:12 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Victor Lim



Well, just to get things straight, there are 6 total lines in Everett right now. 2 for 747, 1 for 767, 1 for 777 (the new/future "moving" assembly line), 1 for 777 (the old/current 777 line, which will be being changed to a moving 787 line), and 1 empty line (used for test aircraft refurbishments, conversions, ect.).

If Boeing were to put the 787 on 2 lines, they would have to A. build a new line, B. squish the 747-8 into one line, or C. shut down the 767 completely.
 
Halibut
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 9):
See NAV 20, you continue to be THE most entertaining dispensers of raw zealotry among all the usual suspects around here. Way to go!

Mark_D,
Why must be so blatantly offensive ? NAV20 was simply expressing his oppinion . Your extreme derogatory attitude is completely uncalled for & your bias comments inaccurate !

Zealotry hah,

Pot Kettele Black !

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/238059_boeing26.html

Quoting By JAMES WALLACE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER AEROSPACE REPORTER]Friday, August 26, 2005

Boeing unveils nose section of new 787
WICHITA, Kan. -- In the history of aviation, no one has ever made anything like it before.

About 24 feet long and 18 feet in diameter, it's a one-piece composite structure of a jetliner that, as one Boeing executive put it Thursday, "leads us through the skies."

In the jargon of the industry, it is simply called Section 41, the nose, cockpit and forward fuselage.


[/quote]

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 2):
Phew! If they can achieve that rate of production they could theoretically clear the backlog of 350 frames in less than two years.

I said a while ago that I thought that the 787 might turn out to be this century's first DC3 Dakota. This news appears to fuel that impression.

Agreed NAV20 ,
I believe Boeing knows how vulnerable Airbus is with regard to the A350 & there A350 Launch customer QR ?! It would be wise for Boeing to jump up production of the 787 while Airbus is currently caught in the Pickle .


http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/06/05/24/100bus_corliss001.cfm


[quote=Bryan Corliss
Herald columnist :


Published: Wednesday, May 24, 2006

Airbus: You've got big trouble
Boeing's rival is having a tough time designing its 787 competitor, making A350 launch customer Qatar Airlines "very unhappy."

But the news that Airbus is going back to the computer-assisted drafting software on the A350 is creating a stir with the one customer that's already really interested in the jet - Qatar Airways.

"We are launch customer for an aircraft that, other than its model number, does not now exist," the airline's chief executive, Akbar Al-Baker, told Flight International. "Qatar Airways is very unhappy about this."



Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
dalecary
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 7:47 am

additionally, this weeks FI also had an article about Kawasaki Heavy Industries(KHI) offloading some of their Embraer 190/195 wing production back to Embraer, so they can concentrate on 787 fuselages and they are "expected to be informed later this year of a further production increase".
 
trex8
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 7:48 am

is Alenia-Vought "on board" for this production ramp up?? the Japanese can make all the wings they want but if there are no fuselages!!!
 
CaptainBob
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 15):
Actually, autoclaves like these have been in use ever since the B-2 stealth bomber was 'boken' back in the mid eighties. Or take the composite wings Boeing designed and produced for the Navy A-6 SWIP program in the late eighties.

I believe that Thermal Equipment built the 25 foot diameter B-2 Bomber autoclave for Boeing, and I think that they built a large one for the Navy A-6 too. They built another 25 foot diameter one some time ago for the Beech's Starship, but the 787 autoclaves are 30 foot diameter, a major jump in design and something that hasn't been done before.

Also, many of the 787 autoclave suppliers have never built anything near these sizes, and they still need to prove themselves.
 
dalecary
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 7:52 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 19):
is Alenia-Vought "on board" for this production ramp up?? the Japanese can make all the wings they want but if there are no fuselages!!!

Ummm, KHI are making the fuselage barrels. They are offloading some Embraer 190/195 wing work, so they can meet Boeing's 787 fuselage production rate.
 
trex8
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 21):
Ummm, KHI are making the fuselage barrels. They are offloading some Embraer 190/195 wing work, so they can meet Boeing's 787 fuselage production rate.

sorry, you are correct, MHI and FHI are doing the wings but KHI are only responsible for the forward fuselage, Alenia Vought for most of the rest! Its still a team effort!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...nology/2002486348_787global11.html
 
TWAtwaTWA
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 8):
If we see no major changes in the the current economic situation of high oil prices, robust growth and a declining US dollar, airlines will be falling over themselves to get their hands on a dreamliner.

How does this work, when Boeing gets firm orders from airlines, years in advance of delivery, is the price locked? What if the dollar continues to fall (like it is right now) Foreign airlines would love to pay less foreign currency, and Boeing would get paid the same in US dollars.
We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 23):
How does this work, when Boeing gets firm orders from airlines, years in advance of delivery, is the price locked?

Yes, firm orders include specific prices.
 
siromega
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16):

If Boeing were to put the 787 on 2 lines, they would have to A. build a new line, B. squish the 747-8 into one line, or C. shut down the 767 completely.

Doesnt C make the most sense? If Boeing ramps up the second line around 2010 it seems unlikely there will be any demand for a 767 after the 787 is in production for a while (since the 787 kinda replaces the upper end - 763/764 - models). Are there still lots of orders coming in for smaller variants like the 762?
 
trex8
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 25):
Are there still lots of orders coming in for smaller variants like the 762?

there are still a few orders for 763s but Boeing may be hoping for that air force tanker contract still
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Mont

Tue May 30, 2006 11:17 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16):

If Boeing were to put the 787 on 2 lines, they would have to A. build a new line, B. squish the 747-8 into one line, or C. shut down the 767 completely.

Another option would be to consolidate B777 production on one line. That might be reasonable from 2010.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 27):
Another option would be to consolidate B777 production on one line. That might be reasonable from 2010.

The 777 is on one line and will always be.

2005:

- 747 - 747 - 747 - 767 - 777 - (miscellaneous)

2006 (late)

- 747 - 747 - (miscellaneous) - 767 - empty - 777

2007

- 747 - 747 - (miscellaneous) - 767 - 787 - 777

Well, this is a bad diagram, but the dashes above represent the different lines. Now, note that the middle 2 lines (the 767 and the old 747 one) are with smaller doors than the outer 4. (the 787 can't really fit in the middle 2 I think). Neither can the 777 nor the 747.

(PS: the reason why the 777 moved on the diagram above is because they will be switching it over to a moving assembly line. (which is being built as we speak in the "miscellaneous" bay.)


http://boeingmedia.com/imageDetail.c...t&BuId=1&caid=0&prid=0&sc=lrg&pn=2

http://boeingmedia.com/imageDetail.c...t&BuId=1&caid=0&prid=0&sc=lrg&pn=2

Note how the middle two doors are smaller in these pictures.
 
worldxplorer
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 11:52 am

Removed. My first point was made moot by Kaitak744's clarification.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16):
C. shut down the 767 completely.

Unless the 767-300F catches on, this line is dead. A BCF program makes so much more sense for most freight operators. The end of the 767 line is near.

WorldXplorer

[Edited 2006-05-30 05:16:36]
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 11:53 am

Kaitak744, thanks for clarifying that. However, if the B747 could fit in the 3rd assembly hall, it would be strange if the B787 were too large.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 30):
Kaitak744, thanks for clarifying that. However, if the B747 could fit in the 3rd assembly hall, it would be strange if the B787 were too large.

It didn't

The 747 line is like a U. Parts come in through door 3, and the finished product came out through doors 1 and 2. Now, the parts go in through door 2 and the plane comes out through door 1 (or vic-versa).
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:12 pm

Kaitak744, I see. Thank you for the further clarification.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 28):
- 747 - 747 - (miscellaneous) - 767 - 787 - 777

I would assume you could do:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
787-10 - 748 - 748 - 767 - 787-8/9 - 777

747 parts go in 3 like before and planes come out 2
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
kaitak744
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
I would assume you could do:

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6
787-10 - 748 - 748 - 767 - 787-8/9 - 777

747 parts go in 3 like before and planes come out 2

Indeed that is a good plan. Lets hope Randy sees this post.  Wink.
However, where would Boeing do its work which it currently does in the "miscellaneous" line? (test aircraft restoration and ect).
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 12:48 pm

Will the SuperJumbo require two lines?
 
kaitak744
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 1:16 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 35):
Will the SuperJumbo require two lines?

Probably so. The 747-8's parts can not be brought in by Boeing Beluga. So, the parts will still arrive in small pieces via train/ship. These small pieces will need to be assembled in to the wing/tail, ect., then moved on to the other line for final assembly.
 
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glideslope
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
I said a while ago that I thought that the 787 might turn out to be this century's first DC3 Dakota. This news appears to fuel that impression.

Thats a great compairson. You may be right on with it.  Smile
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
tockeyhockey
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 9:47 pm

Quoting Mark_D. (Reply 9):
I'd like to point out to you that --from a fully-in-service airliner standpoint anyway -- the 787 programme has done absolutely n-o-t-h-i-n-g, as of this particular point in time. Especially after all the pack of lies served up previously about the "Sonic Cruiser", under Condit and so on.

Now, by all means let's hope the plane will roll out and fly sometime soon, of course -- and in so doing let's sure hope as well that the guys and girls building the thing are way more emotionally level-headed and technically-oriented then the gang of zealots around here, for instance, because otherwise yikes would Boeing ever be in real trouble then.

But let's at least give it another few months more here, shall we. Now that finally the rubber really is starting to hit the road, for their hoped-for EIS timeline anyway.

by bringing up the sonic cruiser, you come off as just as much of an anti-boeing zealot as NAV20 is a boeing booster. what point is there in bringing up a failed mission from 10 years ago? what does that have to do with the fact that the 787 is the fastest selling widebody in history?

do you think that somehow your hatred of the 787 program will make it less successful? you can't hide the facts. airlines want this plane, and they want it now.
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Good news!

Note - Keesje saying something nice about Boeing.

Yes I think it also is good news for the airlines, passengers, and Boeing. Getting more planes with better fuel efficiency and flexibility in the air should help moderate the cost spikes from high oil prices that are rippling throughout the industry. However, the competative pressure on the airlines that still have old fleets will be very intense once their competition starts flying.

If Boeing goes with this, having the extra capacity will make the future orders battles all the more interesting. In the narrowbodies, both A & B have similar capacities so the orders tend to eaven out as the lead time for the more popular model gets pushed out. A year difference in delivery time can certainly shift purchasing decisions.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing 787 Production Rate May Hit 16 Per Month

Tue May 30, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
The rate increase is dependent on the availability of the Boeing 747-400LCF (Large Cargo Freighter) development

Sounds like they had better start building a couple more of these and get the rest of the supply chain on the same page.

which officially begins with the start of major assembly of the first Fuji Heavy Industries-made wingbox on 27 June in Japan. The first 787 is due to make its maiden flight in August 2007 and enter service with launch customer All Nippon Airways in mid-2008.

Cool. Cant wait to see the photos.


This period will include the development of the ‘double-stretch’ 787-10 variant which is currently timed to enter service "towards the back end of 2012, or perhaps early 2013", says 787 general manager Mike Bair.

I smell a launch order annoncement soon....
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