HALFA
Topic Author
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AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 9:37 am

American Samoa's Governor, Togiola Tulafono has sent an ultimatum to Hawaiian Airlines CEO Mark Dunkerley stating his demands that must be met within 45 days or he threatens a class action lawsuit against the airline.
Among his demands are:

1) Roundtrip Airfares between PPG and HNL must be lowered to $500.00.

2)"Hawaiian is to eliminate the international category for fees, charges and penalties imposed on passenger and cargo and bring them in line with what the carrier charges to other American points."

3)"Hawaiian is to put all Honolulu-based personnel who fly the Pago Pago route through at least a one-day course of how to behave with courtesy, competence and caring towards American Samoa passengers."

The Governor continues his tirade calling HA's CEO arrogant, and accusing HA's flight attendants of discrimination. He sights as an example that HA flight attendants charge Samoan passengers $5.00 to use their own headsets to watch the inflight videos. For the record, this is HA's policy on ALL flights (except SYD).

As a side note, I regularly worked HA's flights between HNL and PPG for several years before our HNL to SYD flights began and have had many encounters with the honorable Governor Tulafono. In all of my experiences with him, I have not once heard the words "please", "may I" , or "thank you" ever leave his lips.

Full article can be read here:

http://www.pacificislands.cc/pina/pinadefault2.php?urlpinaid=22229

Aloha,
HALFA
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
ikramerica
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
2)"Hawaiian is to eliminate the international category for fees, charges and penalties imposed on passenger and cargo and bring them in line with what the carrier charges to other American points."

Is this flight covered by the Warsaw Pact or is it covered by US domestic FAA regulations?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
PanAm747
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 10:36 am

The only point I see that is valid would be the elimination of the international fees. If American Samoa is truly part of the U.S., then international fees are inappropriate.

His demand, however, for a lowering of airfares will be as effective as American drivers demanding a lowering of gas prices. Not going to happen.

Something for nothing seems to be what he wants. If HA pulls out, who else would fly PPG-HNL? At least with that cargo capacity AND with "reasonable" fares...
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
worldxplorer
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 10:46 am

Perhaps his efforts would be better rewarded by trying to lure competition to the island rather than trying to bully HA. I know AQ came and went. What about Polynesian Blue? Do they still serve APW-HNL and do they have the rights to operate PPG-HNL.

I have often wondered if the pacific would not benefit from a multi-national airline. So many of the South Pacific countries and territories cannot justify their own full service airline, but together I think the could create something that could fill the needs of many.

WorldXplorer
 
aq737
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 10:50 am

How did the American Samoa governor get elected? I find this information embarassing of a high government official. It is very immature and diplomatic. He must first understand the simple supply and demand. Hawaiian Airlines, being a private company, can charge whatever they wish on the route. Because they are the only carrier serving the route, they can charge a high price because there are always going to be people who need to fly on their flight.

Bottomline: He won't get the price lowered. The reason LAX flights are cheaper is because on the HNL-LAX sector, CO/DL/UA/AA/TZ/NW all offer non-stop service, some carriers offering multiple frequencies on widebody aircraft.

Can American Samoa be considered "domestic" seeing as its not part of the 50 states? If it were domestic, shouldn't American Samoa be the 51st state?

The one-day course is extremely unreasonable as that would require HA to train their entire transpacific flight attendant pool. It is unnecessary because HA does not need to meet any specific demands. If the governor wishes, he can not renew their contract at the airport, but then he'd have no airline to complain about.

As for their airport, I do remember an instance where a flight was stranded there with significant damage.

As for the reports of unfair treatment, HA does have a policy enforcing a $5 "viewing" fee for the mainscreen movie regardless of the headsets being used. The $10 Dig-E-Players are for rent, and I can't comment on the situation although perhaps all of them may have been rented out and it was misinterpreted as the f/a didn't WANT to give it to the passenger rather than COULDN'T.

All in all, I'm laughing by his letter.
Aq737
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
Can American Samoa be considered "domestic" seeing as its not part of the 50 states? If it were domestic, shouldn't American Samoa be the 51st state?

Take a look at Puerto Rico..
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
boeingguy1
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 10:58 am

Please. Im sure HA is shakin' in their boots... after all, it is the American samoa ... honestly, whats the big deal? HA flies there under their choice, they'll decide weather or not theyll charge 500 bucks. gimmie a break.
Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
 
airwave
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
Something for nothing seems to be what he wants

And I hope he gets nothing in return.  Yeah sure

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 3):
Perhaps his efforts would be better rewarded by trying to lure competition to the island rather than trying to bully HA

You would think that that would be the more appropriate path, rather than try and scare off the only link they have to the rest of the world.  Yeah sure

Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
He must first understand the simple supply and demand. Hawaiian Airlines, being a private company, can charge whatever they wish on the route. Because they are the only carrier serving the route, they can charge a high price because there are always going to be people who need to fly on their flight.

 checkmark 

Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
Can American Samoa be considered "domestic" seeing as its not part of the 50 states? If it were domestic, shouldn't American Samoa be the 51st state?

How is Puerto Rico handled? That's how the American Samoa should be handled, IMHO.

I hope this farce is dropped and HA suffers no losses or settlements to this "politician". I'd almost love to see them countersue, but I don't know on what grounds they could, lol.  cheeky 

Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
str8fromthe808
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 11:14 am

 Yeah sure

LOL, the Governor of American Samoa needs to get a reality check. These alleged acts of discrimination are simply policies of the airline. The $5.00 fee to access the A/V with passengers personal equipment is part of the standard spiel that the F/As go through on every flight - you can rent a headset or use your own, regardless it's five bucks. Also, the DigEplayers are not availalbe on all flights, a couple of HNL-SEA flights I've been on did not have these available, something about lack of storage or suitably secure storage overnight at SEA.

On the flip side, it's been widely publicized locally in Hawai'i regarding the mishaps that occur to HA planes while down in Samoa - why shouldn't the airline charge more on a route that has already proven to be hazardous and costly. On top of this, I've noticed that many Samoan people, and I'm not trying to be racist or derogatory in any way, aren't very good at following direction or instruction, thus perhaps misunderstandings are frequent, I can imagine especially in regards to carry on items and baggage limits.

It's poor business for the governor of all people to throw out such a public and blatant accusation to any private business. Especially in a discrimination case, you need to make sure that your argument is airtight - obviously it's not and will be thrown out for being so frivolous....if I was HA, which luckily for many I'm not, I would just write off this route and put more frequencies on easier and more appreciative segments.
it is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness...chinese proverb
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 5):
Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
Can American Samoa be considered "domestic" seeing as its not part of the 50 states? If it were domestic, shouldn't American Samoa be the 51st state?

Take a look at Puerto Rico..

Samoa and Puerto Rico have different legal status. Samoans are not U.S. citizens -- they are U.S. Nationals, and Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. The main difference is that Puerto Ricans can move anywhere in the U.S. and vote, while Samoans cannot vote in U.S. elections. Entry into Samoa is Not Enrty into the U.S., while entry into Puerto Rico is. Puerto Rico is a commonwealth, and Samoa is an "unregulated territory".
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 1:03 pm

I think the Governor needs to STFU before HA decides his temper tantrum isn't worth the effort and there's no longer any HA service to his little nation.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Is this flight covered by the Warsaw Pact or is it covered by US domestic FAA regulations?

I think that you mean "Warsaw Convention" - by your profile you may be too young to remember the "Warsaw Pact" which was effectively a kind of "anti-Nato" so I will refrain from making jokes about having missed the invasion of American Samoa by the Soviet Union and its allies Big grin
 
planemanofnz
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
who else would fly PPG-HNL?

NZ. NZ has been looking at downgrading it's current 767 service AKL-HNL to a 320 service via a pacific island (RAR, NAN or APW) but if HA pulls out of PagoPago I think there could be a possibilty that NZ would start up the route.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 12):
but if HA pulls out of PagoPago I think there could be a possibilty that NZ would start up the route

if you mean PPG-HNL , sorry , not a chance , since Am-Sam is a US territory the route would be cabotage and thus not open to a non-US carrier
 
iairallie
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 2:08 pm

Sounds like someone recently got into a pissing match with an agent or crewmember and wants some revenge.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
ha763
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 2:15 pm

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
2)"Hawaiian is to eliminate the international category for fees, charges and penalties imposed on passenger and cargo and bring them in line with what the carrier charges to other American points."

Entry into Am. Samoa is governed by the Am. Samoa government, not the U.S. government. U.S. citizens need prove their citizenship either through a passport or birth certificate and must have a ticket for passage out of Am. Samoa or proof of employment in Am. Samoa. Plus, if not there for employment, you can only stay 30 days. Doesn't sound like a domestic flight to me.

I also recall this flight being handled exactly like an international flight in that the HNL departure requires a document check before entering the gate and having to enter a gen dec with Customs for both departure and arrival. So, why should HA have to eliminate the international fees and such when they are required to handle the flight as an international one?

BTW, Am. Samoa is an unincorporated, unorganzied territory, not unregulated, and is administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior.
 
777wt
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
3)"Hawaiian is to put all Honolulu-based personnel who fly the Pago Pago route through at least a one-day course of how to behave with courtesy, competence and caring towards American Samoa passengers."

This has to be the biggest joke of all in their demand.
 
767er
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 12):
but if HA pulls out of PagoPago I think there could be a possibilty that NZ would start up the route

I really cannot see this ever happening can you?. NZ flew to PPG years ago and it was never a money spinner.

How dare a Govenor of a tin pot, broke island dictate to HA what they can and cannot do! It really does beg belief!!
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
ikramerica
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 3:46 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 11):

Whoops. Yes, I meant Warsaw Convention. It didn't look right what I wrote, but I couldn't determine why, since I'd seen the term warsaw pact before.

Which still doesn't answer the question:

Are these flights covered by the Warsaw Convention? If so, they should be treated as international regardless of whether they fly to a US territory or not.

But it sounds like from other posts that this is most definitely an international flight and should be treated as such.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 3:50 pm

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
3)"Hawaiian is to put all Honolulu-based personnel who fly the Pago Pago route through at least a one-day course of how to behave with courtesy, competence and caring towards American Samoa passengers."



Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
I regularly worked HA's flights between HNL and PPG for several years before our HNL to SYD flights began and have had many encounters with the honorable Governor Tulafono. In all of my experiences with him, I have not once heard the words "please", "may I" , or "thank you" ever leave his lips.

Cultural sensitivity is part of our job as ambassadors for our company.

Further, it is not incumbent upon the paying passenger, in this case the governor, to be courteous to us. "Please" and "thank you" from paying customers to employees may be a nicety we would all like to enjoy, it is not a requirement.

While I'm the first to cringe at the cries of "cultural" or "racial insensitivity", it is an issue in our jobs and we are understandably expected to be cognizant of these issues and deal with them in a way that benefits the paying passenger, not ourselves.

As for the fares being charged being out of line, and inappropriate taxes being applied to Samoan citizens, to this I take exception. Fares are market driven throughout U.S airspace. American Samoa is far off the beaten path of discount airline pricing....until Southwest starts flying there, the poor folks are going to be stuck with high fares. An airline, like any business has the right to price its product as it sees fit and to impose fees in any many they choose. Customers may chose to pay the price or not patronize that company. As for inappropriate taxes being applied to Samoan residents, this simply cannot be true. Federal laws regulate the imposition and collection of taxes, not individual airline policies.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 12):
NZ. NZ has been looking at downgrading it's current 767 service AKL-HNL to a 320 service via a pacific island (RAR, NAN or APW) but if HA pulls out of PagoPago I think there could be a possibilty that NZ would start up the route.

It is a domestic route, and NZ would not have any traffic rights between Pago Pago and Honolulu.
a.
 
FLYACYYZ
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AC//YYZ-SEA 2nd FLT -- First E190?

Tue May 30, 2006 8:31 pm

The Governor of AmSamoa should extend an invitation to the Pakistani hunger striker who was demanding that PIA lower its airfares to the Island for a brainstorming and strategizing session!!

 Yeah sure
Above and Beyond
 
avroarrow
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 11:22 pm

Whatever the governor is smoking it must be pretty good.
Although I have to agree that the policy of charging $5 for using your own headset for IFE seems to be out of line with every other major carrier I've ever flown with. (Not that I get out of Canada all that much.) I think I'd just bring a book or some magazines and not use the IFE as a protest. Yes I know its just $5, but it just seems cheesy that they charge it for using your own headset. They might as well install pay toilets or put coin slots on the overhead lights and air vents.
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
2travel2know
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 11:26 pm

What would happen if HA bans the American Samoa Governor from flying on their planes?
Even if there's a HA monopoly on the U.S. - PPG route, HA has the upper hand here and that governor doesn't have the power to force or blackmail HA to do what he demmands.
I don't know how the American Samoa is elected and when are the elections, but if HA says the day that person leaves office the PPG-HNL-PPG goes down to USD450, that guy won't win ever again.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
MaartenV
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
It is a domestic route, and NZ would not have any traffic rights between Pago Pago and Honolulu.

If it is a domestic route the International fee should indeed go.

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
1) Roundtrip Airfares between PPG and HNL must be lowered to $500.00.

Yeah right and HA must immediately inaugurate EIN-HNL and let me fly for free.

HA is a company in the private sector and unless they receive some subsidy or something like that, which is connected to a fare limit, they can decide for themselves what to charge.

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
3)"Hawaiian is to put all Honolulu-based personnel who fly the Pago Pago route through at least a one-day course of how to behave with courtesy, competence and caring towards American Samoa passengers."

I wonder what the judge will say about this demand.

Sounds to me that that Governor has either a 'calimero syndrome or someone who thinks he has the power to demand anything he wants from a company, which I think he needs more then they need him.

Are there any elections in the near future at Samao? Maybe he is in desperate need of some votes?
Its all about supply and demand...
 
TWA902fly
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Tue May 30, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
The only point I see that is valid would be the elimination of the international fees

I know an 'international' fee is applied to mainland-usa flights and usa-alaska flight as both pass through international airspace. so my guess is there is some international airspace between HNL and PPG. However, who this fee goes to i am not sure, but i do know there is some extra tax for flights that go through international airspace.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
checksixx
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 1:27 am

It really depends on what "discrimination" is percieved as. I mean come on, we have BET (Black Entertainment Television) here. Now you introduce WET (White Entertainment Television) and your guaranteed to get a call from the ACLU. Little backwards don't you think? I think his people are just moaning about the costs and he 'thinks' he has the power to change it, which he doesn't. Wish we could all just be people and not worry about skin color, religion or ethnic background...but then again I wish money grew on trees and that will never happen..so....


-Check
 
deltagator
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 22):
They might as well install pay toilets or put coin slots on the overhead lights and air vents.

Shhhh!...Don't give Ryanair any more ideas on how to make a buck.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
787kq
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
2)"Hawaiian is to eliminate the international category for fees, charges and penalties imposed on passenger and cargo and bring them in line with what the carrier charges to other American points."

3)"Hawaiian is to put all Honolulu-based personnel who fly the Pago Pago route through at least a one-day course of how to behave with courtesy, competence and caring towards American Samoa passengers."

The crux of the Governor's argument is that HA charges more at Pago Pago than at other American airports, including the "imposition of extraordinary higher fees than you charge at other American points, involving not only airfares but also for reservation changes, no show fees, excess baggage fees, and now your new and unconscionable policy of no refunds whatsoever on all fares paid at Pago Pago."

He cites HA's monopoly position as how they have been able to get away with this. This is not an unreasonable argument, and not arrogant or undiplomatic. He's being a politician, that's what he was elected to do.

No he won't win the argument and fares won't be lowered.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 9):
Samoa and Puerto Rico have different legal status. Samoans are not U.S. citizens -- they are U.S. Nationals, and Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. The main difference is that Puerto Ricans can move anywhere in the U.S. and vote, while Samoans cannot vote in U.S. elections. Entry into Samoa is Not Enrty into the U.S., while entry into Puerto Rico is. Puerto Rico is a commonwealth, and Samoa is an "unregulated territory".

For what its worth, the unincorporated territory (not unregulated) and commonwealth are pretty undifferentiated. The Virgin Islands are also an unicorported territory like American Samoa, but the distinction is the American citizen, American national of the people.

What the difference is between the two, other than possibly the right to vote, is also murky: The State Department doesn't seem to recognize the difference themselves wrt other countries: http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_782.html

As with many things, the airlines often decide what is domestic or international for convenience, and not because of legal matters. Some airlines list Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands as international on some pages (they are not), while others say domestic. Several airlines started calling the Virgin Islands domestic when the commissions paid on domestic flights were slashed, although international commissions had not been. Go figure.
 
HAL
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
3)"Hawaiian is to put all Honolulu-based personnel who fly the Pago Pago route through at least a one-day course of how to behave with courtesy, competence and caring towards American Samoa passengers."

I am a pilot for Hawaiian, and in the past have flown for airlines ranging from single-pilot nine-passenger commuters to major airlines. In those years I have never found a more courteous, pleasant, kind and professional cabin staff than at Hawaiian. I will not comment on the treatment they get from the passengers out of American Samoa, other than to say I am proud of the restraint they show day after day.

I heard one of our Captains mention the fact that it may be election season over in Samoa, and this may be part of his campaign to win votes. Either way though, the governor's comments were way out of line.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
rdwelch
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 28):
787KQ

Nice post.

Gus
They say I have ADD, but they don't understand..Oh look! A chicken!
 
SJCRRPAX
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting 787KQ (Reply 28):
For what its worth, the unincorporated territory (not unregulated) and commonwealth are pretty undifferentiated. The Virgin Islands are also an unicorported territory like American Samoa, but the distinction is the American citizen, American national of the people.



Thanks for the correction, I knew that didn't sound quite right when I typed it in.
 scratchchin 

But let me ask, is there a point where an airline can take cultural differences in consideration with respect to procedures / pricing ? I don't mean to sound politically insensitive here, but I had a Samoan Roomate for a number of years. If you know a Samoan, you don't just know one but you begin to know a hundred. Samoa, is not a western culture, and I could imagine an airline giving Samoan flights a different set of rules to live by. On more than one occasion I know for a fact that my roommate, his friends, and family would book bogus airline reservations and did not feel guilty at all about it. They would do this to insure an empty seats on the plane. (FWIW, they are the largest race of people in the world). They also told me that if they found they could go stand-by for less they would book several seats on an airline to insure an empty seat. I'm very sorry if this sounds like stereo-typing of a race of people, but I feel that if a Samoan rented a DVD player out, they would more than likely assume they bought it and would give a FA a bad time when it came time to return it --- and if they did return DVD player, good luck on finding the DVD Disc.

Samoa is not a materialistic culture. I had it explained to me this way once, in Samoa traditionally the only thing of value was food and there was no refregeration. So if you had a lot of food you would give it away so that when you did not have any you could get some back. My experience with Samoans is everything you own is theirs, and everything they own is yours, except they don't own anything.
 
HALFA
Topic Author
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RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 6:14 am

Quoting WorldXplorer (Reply 3):
What about Polynesian Blue? Do they still serve APW-HNL and do they have the rights to operate PPG-HNL

Polynesian Airlines stopped flying APW-HNL in October of 05 I believe, but look for a new codeshare flight HA/Polynesian Blue soon. I'm not sure who's metal will actually be used yet.

Quoting AQ737 (Reply 4):
How did the American Samoa governor get elected? I find this information embarassing of a high government official.

Governor Tulafono was the acting LT. Governor at the time of the death of Governor Sunia in 2003. Mr. Tulafono took over the office of Governor upon Mr. Sunia's passing and was re-elected in November of 2004.

Quoting Str8fromthe808 (Reply 8):
The $5.00 fee to access the A/V with passengers personal equipment is part of the standard spiel that the F/As go through on every flight - you can rent a headset or use your own, regardless it's five bucks. Also, the DigEplayers are not availalbe on all flights, a couple of HNL-SEA flights I've been on did not have these available, something about lack of storage or suitably secure storage overnight at SEA.

The $5.00 "audio access" fee is a very contentious issue amongst the flight attendants at HA. Most of us hate this policy and don't enforce it. I'm told though that it does generate thousands of dollars of revenue for the company each year and that's the bottom line.

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 12):
but if HA pulls out of PagoPago I think there could be a possibilty that NZ would start up the route.

HA has flown the HNL-PPG route since 1984 and has NO plans to abandon the route.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 19):
Cultural sensitivity is part of our job as ambassadors for our company.
Further, it is not incumbent upon the paying passenger, in this case the governor, to be courteous to us. "Please" and "thank you" from paying customers to employees may be a nicety we would all like to enjoy, it is not a requirement.

You are correct. It is not "incumbent" upon ANY passenger to be polite, cordial, or courteous to us, nor is it a "requirement". However, as an elected official it is at his own peril that he be rude to our cabin staff, and 99% of the passengers flying on this route are fantastic, courteous people.
I'm not sure what to make of your cultural sensitivity comment but if you are implying that I am somehow culturally "insensitive", think again. I was born and raised in Polynesia, I was raised with the culture and have always been respectful of others. End of story.

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 22):
Although I have to agree that the policy of charging $5 for using your own headset for IFE seems to be out of line with every other major carrier I've ever flown with

I agree.

Quoting HAL (Reply 29):
I am a pilot for Hawaiian, and in the past have flown for airlines ranging from single-pilot nine-passenger commuters to major airlines. In those years I have never found a more courteous, pleasant, kind and professional cabin staff than at Hawaiian.

Thanks!!! Extra first class meals for you when you get back on the line with us!

Aloha,
HALFA
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
NZ8800
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 7:18 am

A question: If you fly HNL - PPG - do you have to go through customs/immigration and get your passport stamped? My definition would be if you get your passport stamped and there is no Schengen like agreement between the USA and American Samoa; then it is definitely an international flight. If you don't get your passport stamped, then it may not be regarded as international.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 25):
I know an 'international' fee is applied to mainland-usa flights and usa-alaska flight as both pass through international airspace. so my guess is there is some international airspace between HNL and PPG

As above - I'm wondering as well if it is an international or domestic flight! As to airspace, the flight does pass over airspace belonging to Kiribati and Tokelau, and quite likely also the Samoa formerly known as Western.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 31):
If you know a Samoan, you don't just know one but you begin to know a hundred. Samoa, is not a western culture, and I could imagine an airline giving Samoan flights a different set of rules to live by.

I could not agree more, it is a completely different culture with completely different rules to live by. In both Samoas, many of the people are very very proud of fa'a Samoa - the Samoan way of living. They will be honoured if you ask them about it; but it's rude to ask them what they actually think of it themselves.

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 31):
I'm very sorry if this sounds like stereo-typing of a race of people, but I feel that if a Samoan rented a DVD player out, they would more than likely assume they bought it and would give a FA a bad time when it came time to return it --- and if they did return DVD player, good luck on finding the DVD Disc

I could not agree more. When you arrive in Samoa - you are money personified. And because you have more, much more than the average indigenous person; you're expected to want to hand it all out. Beer and food for all is the cry - and you as Wealthy Western Visitor are the one to supply them. Rental of any item whatsoever is not really understood there - including DVD players. As another point, as I crossed the Le Mafa Pass on Upolu and drove through more villages heading for Apia, I reflected the average Samoan on the island would earn in six weeks what I spent to hire an automatic jeep for two days. So you have that to contend with as well.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 32):
However, as an elected official it is at his own peril that he be rude to our cabin staff, and 99% of the passengers flying on this route are fantastic, courteous people.

In the West it would be, but we are talking about Samoa!!! The corruption that goes on in either Samoa is utterly unbelievable. If your Mr Tulafono is a Matai - chief - then he is going to have to do something beyond disgraceful before his dutiful public fail to re-elect him.
A lot of things that would be utterly unacceptable in many Western cultures are totally acceptable in the Samoas. On the other hand, even in Samoa there are limits, and a Matai who fails to bring home as much cash/influence for the aiga - extended family - as possible, can be dumped, and a new Matai appointed.

In the West, we'd laugh at such demands - as we are on this thread, but it's a serious matter for the Samoan people. If their Matai is not being given the respect they feel he deserves - watch out! On the other hand, if he fails them AND causes them shame, he could well be out on his ear in more ways than one.

As a side note, it is very dangerous to cause Samoan people to feel shame... it goes very very deep, and they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. I am speaking of "Western" Samoa here, but am aware the culture is closely related in American Samoa, despite the the overlay of Western lifestyle which is much more apparent than 'Upolu.
I say this because I think this is where some of this is coming from, that Mr Tulafono and his people feel they are not being treated with respect by Hawaiian Airlines, and are feeling shamed and insulted as a result. This is a proud sensitive people - could go on about them seeing themselves as the Cradle of Polynesia and the birthplace of the world at the Manu'a Islands in American Samoa, but that's another topic for another forum  Smile

Hawaiian Airlines is a business - and not a charity organisation. If the American Samoan Government can subsidise the flight - fine. If not, they might have to rely on the links to Apia Faleolo International (as far as I know the only other international route out of Pago Pago), and use Air New Zealand's weekly flight to Los Angeles from there, or Polynesian Blue/Air New Zealand to New Zealand and Australia.

Air New Zealand used to fly to Pago Pago but pulled out decades ago. As others have said, maybe Polynesian Blue will start flying to Honolulu from Apia, and then Polynesian Airlines and InterIsland Air could schedule flights PPG-APW to meet those long haul planes.

APW is hardly a busy airport - being able to fit one jet on the tarmac at a time (!) - so I hardly think PPG has much to stand on, in demanding more this more that. They won't get it, and they're going to be shamed. This could get very nasty.

It is also of note in that article that Hawaiian say their aircraft get damaged because the runway at Pago Pago Tafuna International is in poor condition. If that's true, PPG might lose the service anyway, lawsuit or no lawsuit.
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
 
787kq
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 33):
A question: If you fly HNL - PPG - do you have to go through customs/immigration and get your passport stamped? My definition would be if you get your passport stamped and there is no Schengen like agreement between the USA and American Samoa; then it is definitely an international flight. If you don't get your passport stamped, then it may not be regarded as international.

From the VI you go generally through US customs in the VI when going to the mainland (the VI is a separate customs zone: it is nominally duty free, I've never seen a passport stamped for this), but as far as I am concerned -- and many airlines, its a domestic flight. If you take an international flight to the VI, you go through US customs on arrival. You need a US visa, if it is required. Between the VI, Puerto Rico and US Mainland, you need proof of citizenship.

When arriving in the VI from the mainland, there is no customs. That is also a domestic flight in my view.

In Angola, if you fly to Cabinda, you go through a sort of customs in Cabinda, yet its a domestic flight.

We can all chose our own definitions like the airlines do.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting HALFA (Reply 32):
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 19):
Cultural sensitivity is part of our job as ambassadors for our company.
Further, it is not incumbent upon the paying passenger, in this case the governor, to be courteous to us. "Please" and "thank you" from paying customers to employees may be a nicety we would all like to enjoy, it is not a requirement.

You are correct. It is not "incumbent" upon ANY passenger to be polite, cordial, or courteous to us, nor is it a "requirement". However, as an elected official it is at his own peril that he be rude to our cabin staff, and 99% of the passengers flying on this route are fantastic, courteous people.
I'm not sure what to make of your cultural sensitivity comment but if you are implying that I am somehow culturally "insensitive", think again. I was born and raised in Polynesia, I was raised with the culture and have always been respectful of others. End of story.

I fail to see the relevance of your "end of story" remark. Polynesian culture varies from one polynesian culture to another. Are you perhaps French Polynesian? Does that mean your native cultures are the same as those for people from Samoa, or other equally polynesian cultures? I think not.

You have a chip on your shoulder. Do your job like a professional, do it as best as you can and move on.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
aeroplan73
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:59 pm

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting HALFA (Thread starter):
They might as well install pay toilets or put coin slots on the overhead lights and air vents.

Don't let Milton from AC hear you say that..lol, it may just happen.
I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
 
HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 35):
Polynesian culture varies from one polynesian culture to another

Really? Interesting. A retired Delta flight attendant from New Orleans lecturing me, (a veteran flight attendant with over 20 years flying within the islands of Polynesia) on Polynesian culture.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 35):
You have a chip on your shoulder. Do your job like a professional, do it as best as you can and move on.

All this negativity from you because I merely stated as fact that Governor Tulafono is not very polite. Whatever.
My shoulders are chipless, and thanks for the sermon.
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting HALFA (Reply 37):
Really? Interesting. A retired Delta flight attendant from New Orleans lecturing me, (a veteran flight attendant with over 20 years flying within the islands of Polynesia) on Polynesian culture.

Yes. And I've been through countless hours of sensitivitiy training on dealing with people from all parts of the world. At Delta (and my many years with Pan Am and Eastern before that), we catered to travelers from a global market. Assuming you're a career HA f/a, you've pretty much stuck to the South Pacific. There's a whole lot more world out there than the South Pacific.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 37):
All this negativity from you because I merely stated as fact that Governor Tulafono is not very polite. Whatever.
My shoulders are chipless, and thanks for the sermon.

Whatever. Whether it's the governor of AS or the janitor at the Princess Tui Inn, it is you who owes them courtesy and professionalism, not the other way around. Stop complaining. We all (f/a's) deal with jerks every single day. It's part of the job. And you should know that the higher rank the individual perceives he or she enjoys, generally speaking the bigger jerk they are.

I don't want to make an issue with you. I'm sure you're very good at your job or you wouldn't have been doing it for so long. But come on, this is the stuff we deal with every day. While these jerks are on your flight, their safety and comfort is your responsibility (job). Just do, let their behavior be what it is, and move on and look forward to the end of the flight.

P.S. I'm not retired yet. I speak 5 languages and have been asked to stay on while language qualified flight attendants are hired. So i trudge on..hoping and wondering if there will be anything left to retire on.

[Edited 2006-05-31 05:45:03]
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
Pulkovokiwi
Posts: 627
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:17 pm

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 1:02 pm

Why anyone would want to travel to PPG is beyond me. It was idyllic 40 years ago but apparently has gone to the dogs. Great shame as it has a gorgeous harbour and boundless possibilties.
I thought I was wrong but I was only joking!
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 1:20 pm

HA to Gov. Tulafono:

"Sorry you feel that way. Best of luck on finding replacement air service. Have a nice day."
 
HAL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 38):
Assuming you're a career HA f/a, you've pretty much stuck to the South Pacific. There's a whole lot more world out there than the South Pacific.

Apparently he has never heard of the extensive charter service HA flew - to many locations around the world - back in the DC-8 & L1011 days. The pilots and FA's at Hawaiian have just as much 'worldwide' experience as any flight crews out there today. We just don't brag about it - we do our job quietly & efficiently.

Quoting HALFA (Reply 32):
Thanks!!! Extra first class meals for you when you get back on the line with us!

I'll be waiting! Back to HNL for two more days of ground school this week, then IOE, then I'll be on the line. See ya there!

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 2:14 pm

What happened to Aloha's service to the islands? I think NZ would start APW-HNL with it's own metal before DJ does.
 
HAL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 4:42 pm

Quoting Planemanofnz (Reply 42):
What happened to Aloha's service to the islands?

Nobody flew them, and they lost a ton of money. Just as with some of their mainland flying it was a case of too long a flight for the plane, and too small a plane for what the passengers wanted. They ended up being weight restricted on some of the flights, which reduced the number of passengers and/or cargo they could carry. The bottom line net revenue sucked for them, so they pulled out.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 5:27 pm

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 33):
A question: If you fly HNL - PPG - do you have to go through customs/immigration and get your passport stamped?

Yes both in PPG and in HNL.

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 33):
In the West it would be, but we are talking about Samoa!!!

Actually, I'm referring to American Samoa which is culturally quite different now than the independent nation of Samoa. American Samoa is quite westernized now and very much "American". I have flown the leaders of this Island Territory back and forth from PPG to HNL for over 20 years, and everyone has been cordial and courteous. Except for this one. Not a complaint mind you, I'm just stating fact.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 38):
Assuming you're a career HA f/a, you've pretty much stuck to the South Pacific. There's a whole lot more world out there than the South Pacific.

You have made several misconceptions about me through this thread but this is probably the biggest one.
You obviously know next to nothing about Hawaiian Airlines. I could list all of the cities I have flown to around the world as a crewmember with HA but there's not enough space on this thread. Go to my profile, the map is there for you.


Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 38):
Whether it's the governor of AS or the janitor at the Princess Tui Inn, it is you who owes them courtesy and professionalism, not the other way around. Stop complaining. We all (f/a's) deal with jerks every single day. It's part of the job. And you should know that the higher rank the individual perceives he or she enjoys, generally speaking the bigger jerk they are

Did I ever once say that I didn't remain courteous and professional? No, I didn't. In fact, I never once complained about Mr. Tulafono, but merely stated a fact for which you can't seem to get over. I certainly never said he was a jerk, just impolite.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 38):
But come on, this is the stuff we deal with every day. While these jerks are on your flight, their safety and comfort is your responsibility (job). Just do, let their behavior be what it is, and move on and look forward to the end of the flight.

Again, more misconceptions. You are correct in that we deal with it everyday, but I wouldn't change my job for anything. I do my job well, I get paid well, and I love it!

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 39):
Why anyone would want to travel to PPG is beyond me

I must agree with you but Upolu and Savaii in Samoa are beautiful, as are the Manu'a islands in American Samoa. I went camping on the island of Ofu and it was paradise!

Quoting HAL (Reply 41):
The pilots and FA's at Hawaiian have just as much 'worldwide' experience as any flight crews out there today.

Totally agree although it's a little known fact.
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
787kq
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:52 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Wed May 31, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting Pulkovokiwi (Reply 39):
Why anyone would want to travel to PPG is beyond me. It was idyllic 40 years ago but apparently has gone to the dogs. Great shame as it has a gorgeous harbour and boundless possibilties.

For the boundless possibilities (based on your description)!
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 33):
A question: If you fly HNL - PPG - do you have to go through customs/immigration and get your passport stamped? My definition would be if you get your passport stamped and there is no Schengen like agreement between the USA and American Samoa; then it is definitely an international flight. If you don't get your passport stamped, then it may not be regarded as international.

As HALFA said, you do pass through Customs/Immigration on both sides. Technically, you are leaving to U.S.A. since entry into Am. Samoa is controlled by the Am. Samoa government and not U.S. CPB. A U.S. citizen can travel to Am. Samoa with only a birth certificate, but it is advised to get as passport since it expedites the process. I've known pax be denied boarding at check-in because they didn't have the proper documents.

However, there are also other reasons why this flight is an international flight. I've already said in a previous post that HA has to enter an inbound and outbound gen dec to Customs for the flights, which is not needed for domestic flights, and a couple of other reasons. If you were to go to the gate and see the gate and ramp agents handling the flight, you will see that they all have Customs seals on their AOA badges, which is needed to handle international flights. They also have to send their cargo manifest to Customs through AMS (automated manifest system), as Customs considers Am. Samoa to be an international destination. I work at HNL for a foreign carrier in cargo and I've transferred cargo bound for PPG to HA and the entry type is I.E. 63, which stands for Immediate Export and means that the cargo's final destination is a foreign port and is routed from a foreign port through a domestic port to another foreign port. If PPG were a domestic destination, the entry type would be I.T. 61 (Immediate Transit), and means that the final destination is a domestic port and the cargo is going from a foreign port through a domestic port to another domestic port.

So, again I ask why should HA drop the international designation for PPG and all the associated fees when they are required to handle the flight as an international flight by CPB?
 
yellekc
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 2:54 pm

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:08 pm

What's the situation with GUM? It is outside the US customs zone, and therefore has its own customs and quarantine agency. CO flights 1 and 2 go direct between GUM and HNL, how are these handled? as domestic flights or international? Thanks.
 
HALFA
Topic Author
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting Yellekc (Reply 47):
What's the situation with GUM? It is outside the US customs zone, and therefore has its own customs and quarantine agency. CO flights 1 and 2 go direct between GUM and HNL, how are these handled? as domestic flights or international? Thanks.

I haven't been to GUM in a few years. My last time to GUM was deadheading from HNL to GUM on CO's flight 1 as we were being repositioned to work a charter flight to Singapore and on to Diego Garcia from GUM. When we arrived in GUM we did go through customs.
I also worked HA's GUM flights back in the early 90's when we still flew there from HNL and we always went through customs both in GUM and in HNL. I would think it's still this way.

Aloha,
HALFA
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
malaysia
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

RE: AM. Samoa Governor Threatens Hawaiian Airlines

Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 46):
. If you were to go to the gate and see the gate and ramp agents handling the flight, you will see that they all have Customs seals on their AOA badges

Not all Airports have a Customs Seal feature on the AOA badge, such as LAS. You can handle a International flight without a customs seal on your AOA badge.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens