carmenlu15
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TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 1:09 am

I just came across this article (in Spanish): http://www.laprensagrafica.com/economia/501516.asp

The article states that TACA is currently in conversations with All Nippon Airways to strengthen air connections between Japan and Central America. The first step will be improving flight schedules in the US, to avoid long connections and overnights. Depending on results, the next step would be a nonstop transpacific flight Japan - El Salvador, using the SAL hub as entry to the Central American Region.

According to the article, the idea is to cater to Japanese tourists traveling to Central America (approx. 20,000), as well as those connecting to Peru (about 30,000 yearly).

A couple of personal comments:

1. Such an agreement would be beneficial, not only for the tourists; Japan has several cooperation projects with the local governments and NGO's.

2. Ok, maybe I'm seeing too much, but... NH is part of Star Alliance, right?  scratchchin 

Opinions, anyone?
- Carmen
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mt99
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 1:23 am

How do Japanese make it to South America right now? Exclusively thru the US?
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blueflyer
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Thread starter):
According to the article, the idea is to cater to Japanese tourists traveling to Central America (approx. 20,000), as well as those connecting to Peru (about 30,000 yearly).

That's a total of 50,000 pax a year, or 136 and some a day. Hopefully there is a significant numbers of pax from Central America to Japan as well, otherwise the day of a non-stop may be far off, even on a 3x or 4x weekly schedule. For the time being, coordinating schedules for a connection in the US is the safer approach, although if I were a connecting passenger, I'd rather fly through Canada than clear US immigration along the way.

By the way, why so many Japanese pax to Peru alone ? The Fujimori effect ?
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Avatordon
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 1:55 am

There is a **significant** amount of Japanese that travel to/from South America via Europe, as well as US & Canada. In Peru, like Brazil, there is a Japanese ethnic population, though not anywhere near the size.
 
carmenlu15
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Blueflyer (Reply 2):
That's a total of 50,000 pax a year, or 136 and some a day. Hopefully there is a significant numbers of pax from Central America to Japan as well, otherwise the day of a non-stop may be far off, even on a 3x or 4x weekly schedule.

I was wondering that as well. Then again, could such a flight be used for connections to other Asian countries? For instance, there is a sizeable S. Korean population in the region.
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 4):
I was wondering that as well. Then again, could such a flight be used for connections to other Asian countries? For instance, there is a sizeable S. Korean population in the region.

Lots of Taiwanese too (most of whom now use the TPE-IAH service by China Airlines..hence the reason for its success). The Tiawanese ambassador here once told me that there were appox 80,000 nationals in Central America (the legal ones anyway!)....an onward connection to TPE would help to fill the trans pac flight from SAL
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
Coronado990
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

I always thought it would be a good idea for TA to offer flights from TIJ to GUA, SAL and SJO. Now I really think it's a good idea with upcoming flights from TIJ to Japan. I wonder if TA and AM could work something out through TIJ.
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FLYACYYZ
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 10:46 am

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 1):
How do Japanese make it to South America right now? Exclusively thru the US?

There is a huge channeling of Japanese customers on AC from NRT/KIX via YYZ particularly to GRU & LIM.
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ktachiya
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 11:08 am

I heard that the YVR-MEX flights on JL are also packed. Are there also Japanese pax that use YVR as a gateway to go onto Central America (MEX?)
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Bicoastal
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 11:16 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 6):
upcoming flights from TIJ to Japan

Finally....someone is recognizing that TIJ is San Diego's solution for an airport that can serve Asia and European (someday) destinations. In addition to, of course, the existing connections through hubs in the USA.

Vote NO on Miramar in November.
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Avatordon
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 11:30 am

JAL has full traffic right YVR-MEX as it does JFK-GRU and in both city pairs, flights are full. The majority of the traffic, however is not local, but Japan-Mexico-Japan and Japan-Brazil-Japan. The local rights are used more for fill-up than anything else.
 
DCAYOW
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 9):
Finally....someone is recognizing that TIJ is San Diego's solution for an airport that can serve Asia and European (someday) destinations. In addition to, of course, the existing connections through hubs in the USA.

Vote NO on Miramar in November.

Thats just great. The first experience we will give visitors to San Diego is TIJ airport followed by a +1 hour wait at the border station. You can kiss that kind of service goodbye because it won't work. Plus, what happens when an earthquake or worse a bad rainy season degrades the unstable mesa upon which the TIJ airport lies.

Go ahead vote no and place your hands at the mercy of Tijuana's airport, Mexico's government and whatever airlines manage to get license to operate there (the likes of Aerocalifornia).
Retorne ao céu...
 
Carpethead
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 12:20 pm

ANA doesn't fly their own metal to Canada. So everything has to be thru the US. This is probably what TACA is trying to rectify.
Because of the time zone difference, amongst Japan/North America/Central America somebody has to compromise. For TACA, it's best to redeye most runs from the US West Coast because of the time difference between there and the Central America. However, this type of schedule doesn't lend very well with connections to the transpac flights.

I am not quite sure how much market there is between Japan to Central America but it has to dwarfed by the number just going to the US, so the current situation stays. TACA should be the airline that has to adjust its schedule to NH's flights because there is no way in the world, NH is flying to any destination south of the US.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 11):
Go ahead vote no and place your hands at the mercy of Tijuana's airport, Mexico's government and whatever airlines manage to get license to operate there (the likes of Aerocalifornia).

Are any Mexican A.net members as offended as I am with this comment? Xenophobia and racism are alive and rampant on my side of the border. I apologize.

[Edited 2006-05-31 05:25:57]

[Edited 2006-05-31 05:26:23]

[Edited 2006-05-31 05:26:46]
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
EddieDude
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 12:38 pm

The failure of the TA-AM codeshare agreement for the MEX-LIM route notwithstanding, TA could consider flying SAL-TIJ-SAL and connect with AM's upcoming twice-weekly TIJ-NGO.

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 11):
whatever airlines manage to get license to operate there (the likes of Aerocalifornia).

Stupid comment. May I remind you of ValuJet's very poor safety record? "Everglades crash" ring a bell? JD is grounded now thanks to the Mexican government realizing they were not up to scratch in terms of maintenance despite the fact that an evaluation by the FAA in the LAX hangar a few weeks earlier did not yield any evidence that the safety standards were not being met.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
DCAYOW
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 13):
Are any Mexican A.net members as offended as I am with this comment? Xenophobia and racism are alive and rampant on my side of the border. I apologize.

How is this racist? If you use the TIJ Airport, you are using an airport which is subject to the laws of the Mexico. That means Mexico controls the bilateral agreements under which San Diegan's may travel abroad etc. It imparts economic benefits to Mexico without any guarantee that San Diego will benefit. Just because I would prefer to have those services on my side of the border doesn't make me a racist. I don't want the economic prosperity of San Diego determined in bilateral negotiations between Mexico and third countries (e.g. China, Japan). I want those services on this side of the border -the fact that I want them here just means I love my hometown - is meant nothing against Mexico. If I were TIJ, I would do exactly as they are doing - marketing their proximity to San Diego.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
May I remind you of ValuJet's very poor safety record? "Everglades crash" ring a bell?

The primary cause of ValuJet crash in the Everglades was not a mechanical issue with the DC9, it was because the packing agent mislabeled an oxygen canister, which in turn was not properly secured and ignited on take-off. My comments about Aerocalifornia have been echoed by Mexican nationals as well.
Retorne ao céu...
 
dartland
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 2:47 pm

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Thread starter):
2. Ok, maybe I'm seeing too much, but... NH is part of Star Alliance, right?

You are seeing too much. TA is not joining Star.

(as for the other thread on this topic, someone pointed out TA in the "coming soon" part of the Star alliance list on UA's web site. Well, that has since been corrected, and TA is now properly listed as a code-share partner, NOT a Star partner).
 
mt99
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting Dartland (Reply 16):
You are seeing too much. TA is not joining Star.

At least not yet. Why couldnt it happen eventually?
Step into my office, baby
 
kiwiandrew

RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Dartland (Reply 16):
You are seeing too much. TA is not joining Star.

you seem very certain of this - if we look back on this thread in five years time who can tell what the situation will be by then ?

seven and a half years in the travel industry taught me two things :

1/ how to touch-type ( not relevant to this thread- but a very hand skill
nonethelesss)
2/ never say 'never'
 
dartland
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Wed May 31, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
you seem very certain of this - if we look back on this thread in five years time who can tell what the situation will be by then ?

True true, never say never. I agree with you there.

To date, there is no financial benefit for TA to join Star. They would incur significant costs to get themselves "Star-ready" (e.g. airport lounge requirements, FFP requirements, allowing elite status for other Star elits, etc. etc.) with very little benefit to them since they serve a large business and VFR base that primarily (read: always) travel within North, Central, and South America. Yes, they would gain access to new customers wanting to get in to the Americas (a la NH what wants to do), but the UA code-share will already do that and given code-shares, there's really no reason to get full membership in to Star -- their home market benefit can't support the costs involved.

So -- what I'm saying -- is that TA has no intentions of joining Star today. If that balance shifts in the next 5-10 years (or if Star changed their entry requirements -- which maybe they will since they probably want TA more than TA wants them), would they reconsider it? Absolutely! But we are years away from that kind of shift (if ever), so I'm just reminding other TA fans on A.net that they should not read into the UA code-share as TA interested in Star or having anything to do with Star -- it is simply a business move to replace AA with UA (and a good business move in my mind) as a code-share partner, having little to do with Star except for it being a big part of what UA brings to do the table as a code-share partner.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 13):
Are any Mexican A.net members as offended as I am with this comment?

Eh? There's a big difference between Mexicans and the Mexican government... For starters...one of them actually contributes to society.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
EddieDude
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 15):
The primary cause of ValuJet crash in the Everglades

The poor safety record of ValuJet is well documented and is available to anyone willing to spend a few seconds googling it.

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 15):
My comments about Aerocalifornia have been echoed by Mexican nationals as well.

And I am too quite satisfied that the Mexican authorities have grounded JR until JR gets its act together... don't you wish the U.S. authorities had grounded ValuJet before the Everglades tragedy? And again, the decision of the Mexican government to ground JR on the base of serious safety shortcomings came shortly after JR was evaluated at LAX by the FAA and the FAA failed to detect any safety issues. Maybe the FAA was not thorough enough.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 19):
TA has no intentions of joining Star today. If that balance shifts in the next 5-10 years (or if Star changed their entry requirements -- which maybe they will since they probably want TA more than TA wants them), would they reconsider it? Absolutely! But we are years away from that kind of shift (if ever)

I am in complete agreement. However, it is very interesting that they first got close to UA and now they are talking to NH. Seems TA is finding that Star carriers can be good partners for them.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
DCAYOW
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
The poor safety record of ValuJet is well documented and is available to anyone willing to spend a few seconds googling it.



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 21):
And I am too quite satisfied that the Mexican authorities have grounded JR until JR gets its act together... don't you wish the U.S. authorities had grounded ValuJet before the Everglades tragedy? And again, the decision of the Mexican government to ground JR on the base of serious safety shortcomings came shortly after JR was evaluated at LAX by the FAA and the FAA failed to detect any safety issues. Maybe the FAA was not thorough enough.

EddieDude, I will grant you that both countries have had their fair share of "bad apples" in the airline sector. The only point I was trying to make in my original post is that when US passengers fly from a US airport on a US or foreign certificated air carrier from US airport, they have certain expectations of safety and in the event of accident have recourse to US law or to the courts.

If San Diegans were to use the TIJ airport as a second airport, they would have no assurances from the US government of individual flight safety/security (however they would have assurances of Mexican Govt of safety and that is excellent-DGAC carries out its responsibility with professionalism), but the key point is that they would not have recourse to the courts or US law in the event of accident/mishap.
Retorne ao céu...
 
2travel2know
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:32 am

Those better connections that TA is looking will first benefit those with U.S. Visas and those who don't need them.
In the case TA would try to find better connections in Canada (via YVR, if they ever fly there), it'll be a similar situation, only to benefit those who don't need Canadian visas or already have one.
And now that some Latinamericans need visas for México, getting to the Far East no matter via Canada, U.S.A. or México is a hassle.
A SAL-TIJ-SAL flight with inmediate international-to-international connetions with the future TIJ-NGO-TIJ may solve the problem, specially if Méxicans won't ask for transit visas for passengers changing aircrafts @ TIJ.
The other option is to try to get a Far East airline to fly non-stop to SAL, which IMHO it would be very unlikely, since those airlines seem to be very conservative when it come to "exotic" routes. For an example see what happened to BR TPE-LAX-PTY flights, CM started LAX and suddendly BR stopped the flight instead of flying via SFO or SEA from then on.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
EddieDude
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 22):
when US passengers fly from a US airport on a US or foreign certificated air carrier from US airport, they have certain expectations of safety and in the event of accident have recourse to US law or to the courts.

If San Diegans were to use the TIJ airport as a second airport, they would have no assurances from the US government of individual flight safety/security (however they would have assurances of Mexican Govt of safety and that is excellent-DGAC carries out its responsibility with professionalism), but the key point is that they would not have recourse to the courts or US law in the event of accident/mishap.

Fortunately or disgracefully, depending on how you see things, U.S. courts do not have the least bit of hesitation to know about and resolve cases that should clearly be tried in other jurisdictions. You can be sure that, with this liberal construction by the U.S. judicial system of points of contact (lessor of the aircraft, citizenship of the plaintiff, etc.) and extraterritorial application of U.S. law for the sake of protecting its citizens, U.S. passengers need not fear that, should something happen to them while on board the plane of a foreign carrier departing from a foreign airport, they (or their heirs) will not find a sympathetic U.S. judge who will, with little regard to principles of international private law, decide that he is competent to resolve the specific controversy.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 5):
The Tiawanese ambassador here once told me that there were appox 80,000 nationals in Central America (the legal ones anyway!)....

= Why would Taiwanese try to go to Central America illegally? I am curious as Taiwan is an advanced high income country and most of Central America desperately poor? This is not meant to be an offense - I am just curious for educational purposes.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 16):
(as for the other thread on this topic, someone pointed out TA in the "coming soon" part of the Star alliance list on UA's web site. Well, that has since been corrected, and TA is now properly listed as a code-share partner, NOT a Star partner).

= That was me.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 19):
True true, never say never. I agree with you there.

To date, there is no financial benefit for TA to join Star. They would incur significant costs to get themselves "Star-ready" (e.g. airport lounge requirements, FFP requirements, allowing elite status for other Star elits, etc. etc.) with very little benefit to them since they serve a large business and VFR base that primarily (read: always) travel within North, Central, and South America. Yes, they would gain access to new customers wanting to get in to the Americas (a la NH what wants to do), but the UA code-share will already do that and given code-shares, there's really no reason to get full membership in to Star -- their home market benefit can't support the costs involved.

So -- what I'm saying -- is that TA has no intentions of joining Star today. If that balance shifts in the next 5-10 years (or if Star changed their entry requirements -- which maybe they will since they probably want TA more than TA wants them), would they reconsider it? Absolutely! But we are years away from that kind of shift (if ever), so I'm just reminding other TA fans on A.net that they should not read into the UA code-share as TA interested in Star or having anything to do with Star -- it is simply a business move to replace AA with UA (and a good business move in my mind) as a code-share partner, having little to do with Star except for it being a big part of what UA brings to do the table as a code-share partner.

= Again, TA wants to join Star ... but members are not happy with the idea and have expressed real and stupid concerns. These include the Asian carriers worried about service standards (most notably SQ, TG, and NH) to some stupid ones (US saying TA is unsafe because some countries do not meet USA CAT standards.)
Live, and let live.
 
2travel2know
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:28 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 25):
Why would Taiwanese try to go to Central America illegally? I am curious as Taiwan is an advanced high income country and most of Central America desperately poor? This is not meant to be an offense - I am just curious for educational purposes.

It's not trying to get to Central America illegally, it's staying in Centralamerica illegally. If they come for investment/business reasons and longer stays they most likely have resident visas before arriving in the countries. This is manytimes the case with Japanese, Korean, "Hongkongnese", Singaporean, Thai... businesspeople too.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
CM767
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:58 pm

RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):
CM started LAX and suddendly BR stopped the flight instead of flying via SFO or SEA from then on.

CM started LAX after BR dropped LAX-PTY
But The Best Thing God Has Created Is A New Day
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting Dartland (Reply 16):
You are seeing too much. TA is not joining Star.

Granted, not in the near future, but what about a few years down the road...?

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 25):
Again, TA wants to join Star ... but members are not happy with the idea and have expressed real and stupid concerns. These include the Asian carriers worried about service standards

I will agree that service is not exactly the best out there, but this...

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 25):
US saying TA is unsafe because some countries do not meet USA CAT standards

Can somebody explain to me then why is HP a regular Aeroman customer?  Yeah sure
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
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RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:10 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 2):
= Why would Taiwanese try to go to Central America illegally? I am curious as Taiwan is an advanced high income country and most of Central America desperately poor? This is not meant to be an offense - I am just curious for educational purposes.

Some illegal asians end up there on their way to the US. Make themselves comfortable and end up living there when they cant make it.

I dont know how they get there in the first place - but interestingly enough - i was just talking to as friend that works in US customs and was telling me about Chinese traveling from Central and South America on fake passports then claiming assylum.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 25):
These include the Asian carriers worried about service standards (most notably SQ, TG, and NH) to some stupid ones (US saying TA is unsafe because some countries do not meet USA CAT standards.)

Interesting- I guess i can buy part of that argument. TACA's service is not terrible - on par with UA i would say - at least on Y-class. F and C classes thats another story. SG TG an NH definately caters more to F and C class types and therefore may see little value added.

I wonder if there is a similar argument for CM not joining SkyTeam? I mean - they have stronger ties to CO that TACA ever had to AA and UA - so maybe they dont want CM..
Step into my office, baby
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:16 pm

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 25):
Again, TA wants to join Star ... but members are not happy with the idea and have expressed real and stupid concerns. These include the Asian carriers worried about service standards (most notably SQ, TG, and NH) to some stupid ones (US saying TA is unsafe because some countries do not meet USA CAT standards.)

"Stupid concerns". Agreed! That's really silly.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 29):
so maybe they dont want CM.

Apparently they don't.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: TA Looking For Better Connections To Japan

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 26):
It's not trying to get to Central America illegally, it's staying in Centralamerica illegally. If they come for investment/business reasons and longer stays they most likely have resident visas before arriving in the countries. This is manytimes the case with Japanese, Korean, "Hongkongnese", Singaporean, Thai... businesspeople too.

= I learn something everyday.

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 28):
Can somebody explain to me then why is HP a regular Aeroman customer?

= Haha. No need to explain. Hence, US concerns are plain silly. I do think the complaints of the Asian carriers are justified - their Y product is superior and I dont see them benifitting from feeder traffic to Central America. I do hope this goes through though. Since MX's departure, Stars coverage of Central America has been dismal. However, I am told by some significant people @ Star that their 3 priorities (in that order) is China, India, and Latin America. They have already tackled China ... so perhaps by end 2007, I see TACA as being a Star carrier.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.

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