cslusarc
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Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 4:34 am

Will DL expand internationally in spring/summer 2007?

I'm under the opinion that in order to epand further they need to either:
1. convert domestic capacity to internations (e.g. with 738s or 764s); or
2. grow their fleet.

They night not be able to do either.

Do you think more 764s will leave the domestic fleet in 2007?
When does DL receive their next 2 772s? 2008 or 2009?
--cslusarc from YWG
 
MKEdude
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 4:42 am

I think they want to, but as has been said before their fleet is limited at the moment.

Could they possibly round up any second-hand T7s? Would the B/C court allow it?
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 4:48 am

You've got to think that 2006 is pretty much the end of it for now. Any new plans should come after they exit bankruptcy in 2007 and after the results of this latest route restructuring come in.
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 4:56 am

Based on current orders DL gets two more 772ERs in 2008 and three more in 2009. If nothing changes between now and then, the next two 772ERs are likely to serve ATL-PVG, which DL is expected to get approval to fly in 2008. It's possible they could use three 772s on a PVG-ATL-JNB routing, the way three 772s can serve NRT-ATL-TLV, leaving four for some combination of LGW/CDG/FRA service.

Further orders will come next year on exit from bankruptcy, possibly to include 772LRs and almost certainly to include significant quantities of 787s. But deliveries probably wouldn't start much before 2009 or 2010 (except for the already-ordered 772s) and until then expansion is limited; the domestic 764s are needed for ATL-Florida and Hawaiian markets, I don't think the domestic 763s can serve trans-Atlantic even if the cabins were converted, and the 763ER and 772ER fleets have to be close to their limits.

Used airplanes are always a possibility, if they can be found in good condition, but is anyone trying to sell RR-powered 772ERs?
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Cslusarc (Thread starter):
Will DL expand internationally in spring/summer 2007?
I'm under the opinion that in order to epand further they need to either:
1. convert domestic capacity to internations (e.g. with 738s or 764s); or
2. grow their fleet.

Latin America has been a region where DL has sought to expand, and I suspect if they decide to use more 738s or 752s there could be some growth in this area since the 738s or 752 can reach any area in the Caribbean from any of their hubs (including SLC). That said, I do see some additional Caribbean expansion from ATL, JFK and quite possibly some new routes there (MBJ, SJU are strong candidates) from SLC since Mexico has been largely successful originating there.
As for more significant overseas routes, they may tweak their schedule to Europe, but they will need more 772s very soon. I don't think they will acquire any new orders for secondhand a/c (some additional 752s are sought I hear) until after they exit chapter 11. they will take delivery of a few more 738s and the 772s are coming, perhaps even some LR models since they could then do their South Africa service without the fuel/tech stop in Senegal. The 764ERs are part of their Hawaii service from SLC.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
deltagator
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting Cslusarc (Thread starter):
Will DL expand internationally in spring/summer 2007?

Yes, the questions is with what planes of course. With the ex-CO guy running scheduling perhaps they'll be able to pull it off.

Quoting Cslusarc (Thread starter):

Do you think more 764s will leave the domestic fleet in 2007?

Perhaps a few more than the ones already slated but not a huge amount as they are used to Hawaii, between hubs (though usually on the way to Hawaii), and the routes to Florida.

Quoting Cslusarc (Thread starter):
When does DL receive their next 2 772s? 2008 or 2009?

2007 IIRC as they were pushed back once or twice but this was the last date I heard. They need them to support the NRT, TLV, JNB, and perhaps the China route if they are awarded it plus their LGW/CDG/FRA routes.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 5:16 am

The heat may be off MIA for now. While ATL has grown 31% Internationally from 2000 to "today". MIA in 2005 was just 86% of it's 2000 size. (and down slightly ytd in 2006)

 Smile snark
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 5:23 am

Leon, Mexico will be coming back on the schedule to be flown by ASA CRJ700....scheduled to start December 1.
 
rwsea
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 5:29 am

DL still has options for expansion; consider the following:
- More 764s can be sent to Europe, replaced by increased 757 frequencies especially on the domestic side (think MCO and FLL). Also, 763ER's can serve Hawaii if need be.
- Domestic 763's can serve portions of Latin America if need be.
- Not every new destination needs a daily frequency. I expect DL to further penetrate Eastern Europe and Russia, and similar to Kiev and Budapest, I would expect them to start out at 4-5x weekly and gradually build-up to a daily service.
- Some routes may not be around next year, including ATL-ATH/VCE/NCE. If anything, the JFK-ATH/VCE/NCE could be upgraded to 764s. I'm not saying these routes aren't doing well (I have no clue how they're doing), but I'm saying that they could beef up service from one city and drop the other if need be. There are also rumors that EDI and CPH might not stick around.
- 764's have larger capacity than the 763's, so maybe in some cases frequencies could be reduced to free up aircraft. For example, maybe 2x 764 on ATL/LGW instead of the current 3 daily flights.
- DL could also convert some 757's to ETOPS if necessary. While that would be expensive, it would free up some planes currently flying to Hawaii. Additionally, they could add some smaller destinations from their JFK hub (such as LIS, GLA, BHX, etc.).

The fleet is getting stretched further, but there are still options for expansion. I think we'll see more expansion in 2007, although some of it may be reallocation based on lessons learned this summer.
 
panamair
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 5:48 am

You can pretty much BET that there will be more international expansion if the recent spate of new services show that the company is heading in the right direction. As mentioned in a few posts above, there is a strong push into Latin America and many of these services can be accomplished through the use of domestic a/c (i.e., 738s, 757s, non-ER 763s). Some of this year's seasonals may not return next year (such as ATL-NCE) thus freeing up capacity for new destinations such as PRG, WAW, etc.

Also, the 764s are really only needed on the Hawaii flights; they can pretty much withdraw all of them from the Florida and transcon routes (which would help reduce capacity and push up fares domestically). If they do that, they can free up at least another 3-4 764s; the 764s will replace the 777s on the transatlantic routes (such as ATL-LGW/FRA/CDG, and CVG-CDG), thus freeing up the 777s for longer routes to Asia/Africa/Middle East, etc.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 3):
If nothing changes between now and then, the next two 772ERs are likely to serve ATL-PVG, which DL is expected to get approval to fly in 2008.

DL is applying for ATL-PEK, not PVG.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
Also, 763ER's can serve Hawaii if need be.

Which would be a complete waste of a very capable aircraft  Wink .

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
- Domestic 763's can serve portions of Latin America if need be.

Indeed, as DL already uses them to MBJ, CUN, and has used them to SJO, LIM and AUA IIRC. That said, it could return to LIM, perhaps 2x daily then, which would free up a 764 for a Euro route.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
For example, maybe 2x 764 on ATL/LGW instead of the current 3 daily flights.

Doubt you could cram pax from 1 763, 1 764 and 1 777 into 2 764s  Wink .

Quoting Panamair (Reply 9):
DL is applying for ATL-PEK, not PVG.

Doesn't matter, they won't get the rights anyway  Yeah sure .

Not sure about the whole point of the ETOPS 757s though. Of course, those would offer DL huge potential, in that they could take over thinner routes out of JFK to Europe and the thinner Hawaii routes like SLC-KOA and in turn free up 764s, but then again, IIRC, DL's 757 engines are not the most powerful, and hence performance to Europe would suffer.
Still hopeful, though.
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 6:54 am

This massive European expansion is fine and dandy and all during the summer but it will be interesting to see what Delta is going to do when all of the this summer peak travel ends in August. The winter will be the true test to see if these newly established routes are sustainable flying B767-300ERs year around to these new cities, especially the colder part of Europe...Copenhagen, Kiev, the travels in Ireland and Scotland drop like a rock during the winter...so it will be interesting to see which routes will actually remain or not.

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2006-05-31 00:02:28]
 
Evan767
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:05 am

Some of my dream new routes for Delta would be:

Edinburgh/Glasgow combo
Cairo
Warsaw
Geneva
Lisbon
Birmingham
Stockholm
Oslo
Dubai (yeah right)
Delhi
Seoul
Beijing
Hong Kong

If anyone believes that any of these routes may be started please reply, but I think I am just dreaming.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:05 am

In addition to Latin America, there will likely be some additional flights to Canada and improved service there. SLC-YVR could go mainline for both daily flights using a 738. Also two of the four current DLC flights to YYC will likely go mainline also using a 738. Additionally the two SLC-YEG flights could also go mainline using 738s. This summer also will likely tell the fate of the SLC-YYJ flight on DLC, this could be something that the SkyWest and Delta people will decide to have as year around service. Preliminary loads on this flight as it is about to start look promising. Some additional DLC flights to Canada form the SLC hub that are likely being looked at include Lethbridge (YQL) and Regina (YQR).
The real battle for Canada service will be to Toronto/Pearson (YYZ) between DL and AC. Both will get under way in early June. Will AC further counter and offer service to YUL? This could get interesting since trans-49th service has been a very important money maker for AC.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
If anyone believes that any of these routes may be started please reply, but I think I am just dreaming.

I don't think GLA, HKG, DXB, ICN, BHX, GVA or LIS.

Add PRG.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
Dubai (yeah right)



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
Hong Kong

Well, those are 2 of the 3 routes (the third being JNB) which were heavily rumored around Delta (before the pilots informed DL of how much they wanted paid to fly the 777), as then they did heavily consider these routes from ATL, possibly using Boeing's C-market 772 version. Though whether that will happen these days is highly doubtful.

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 14):
Add PRG.

Would be overdue. ATL-PRG is one of the more obvious gaps in the Skyteam intra-hub network (2 others being CVG/SLC-MEX).
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:36 am

I heard from a couple of sources that Delta was looking into offering service to LED in the future. Both of their Moscow routes are extremely successful, and they just might have enough traffic from LED.

Aeroflot777
 
rwsea
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 16):
I heard from a couple of sources that Delta was looking into offering service to LED in the future. Both of their Moscow routes are extremely successful, and they just might have enough traffic from LED.

Bingo. I think this is one of the first routes DL would consider. Other possibilities are the mentioned ATL-PRG, and JFK-WAW.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
Would be overdue. ATL-PRG is one of the more obvious gaps in the Skyteam intra-hub network (2 others being CVG/SLC-MEX).

SLC-MEX using a 738 or 752 is VERY likely soon.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
MastaHanky
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 16):
I heard from a couple of sources that Delta was looking into offering service to LED in the future. Both of their Moscow routes are extremely successful, and they just might have enough traffic from LED.

LED is fairly seasonal traffic though, isn't it? I would think NYC-LED would be a perfect 757 route if range weren't an issue. Maybe I'm underestimating demand...I dunno.

Didn't DL announce JFK-CAI shortly before 9/11? It wouldn't surprise me to see that one come around again sometime in the future, along with the previously mentioned ATL-PRG and SLC-MEX.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:44 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
SLC-MEX using a 738 or 752 is VERY likely soon.

I suspect so. AM's MEX flight were not performing that bad, IIRC, and the main issue with them was their late arrival into SLC, and FIS people not wanting to work so long, especially if the flight was delayed.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 16):
I heard from a couple of sources that Delta was looking into offering service to LED in the future. Both of their Moscow routes are extremely successful, and they just might have enough traffic from LED.

I thought the US-Russia Bilateral is very limited and DL and CO already use (or at least possess in the case of CO) all available flights to Russia?
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 14):
Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
If anyone believes that any of these routes may be started please reply, but I think I am just dreaming.
Edinburgh/Glasgow combo
Cairo
Warsaw
Geneva
Lisbon
Birmingham
Stockholm
Oslo
Dubai (yeah right)
Delhi
Seoul
Beijing
Hong Kong

I don't think GLA, HKG, DXB, ICN, BHX, GVA or LIS.

Add PRG.

Yep, PRG for sure could be a winner. And BHX, LIS could work, I don't see why not.

Anyone know why HKG hasn't worked out yet?

Of course there's always Australia / New Zealand. But those coming online in the next couple of years is a bit of a stretch, even for Delta.  Wink
 
misbeehavin
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
ATL-PRG is one of the more obvious gaps in the Skyteam intra-hub network (2 others being CVG/SLC-MEX).

PRG has long been the only Skyteam hub that doesn't have a nonstop flight from the ATL.
 
panamair
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 19):
Didn't DL announce JFK-CAI shortly before 9/11?

Not just announced, but actually operated 3X weekly MD11 service JFK-CAI-DXB for a few months until 9/11 shut it down.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 12):
Some of my dream new routes for Delta would be:

Edinburgh/Glasgow combo
Cairo
Warsaw
Geneva
Lisbon
Birmingham
Stockholm
Oslo
Dubai (yeah right)
Delhi
Seoul
Beijing
Hong Kong

Of that list, they obviously really want PEK but WAW is probably the only other one that is a strong possibility. DXB would have been on the high possibility list if EK did not have twice (soon to be 3X) daily service already between DXB and JFK...

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
Doesn't matter, they won't get the rights anyway .

Why? I think they have a decent shot at it if the DOT is in the mood for a new carrier offering service from an underserved part of the country....
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 23):
Why? I think they have a decent shot at it if the DOT is in the mood for a new carrier offering service from an underserved part of the country....

That didn't work out many years ago when DL still applied for China service from CVG and JFK, and when DL could have done just that last year, it was suddenly about competition, not new markets, and ever since that decision, I have lost my believe that DL will ever get access to China, unless it's through a merger with NW. But I don't expect any support in this case from the DOT, next time it will probably be just about competition again  Yeah sure .
 
Carpethead
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 8:13 am

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 3):
trying to sell RR-powered 772ERs?

Perhaps SQ a year or two down the line as the 773ERs come on line. Instead of replacing the bigger 744, they could replace some of the 'old' 772s from 1997.
 
exusair
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 8:19 am

Look for a snowbird pattern for aircraft deployment. Europe in Summer. South America and Hawaii (and new markets) in winter.


The winter shift in flying is a conundrum that looms for DL. We will likely see a redeployment of a/c into South American markets such as ATL-SCL to 2x daily. DL last winter operated a 2nd SCL part of the week. Cargo demand in that market remains strong.

Dubai.........Been there done that JFK-CAI-DXB cancelled after 9/11 on an MD-11. Probably won't see it again anytime soon.

Mention of using domestically configured 767-300's from BOS-DUB/SNN has been floated for next year. JFK-WAW, PRG and LED, are also making the rumor rounds, as is JFK-BOM on a 777, although restricted load wise. JFK-HEL and OSL and TLV either in winter or spring '07 also rumored.

757 ETOPS. See thread on AA's ex TWA 757's and return to lessor in 2007. We can probably see these used on ATL routes to new South American markets such as Brasillia, Recife and Belo Horizonte, in addition to JFK operations to Western Europe. Are these secondary airports in Brazil exempt from the bilateral restrictions?

Wouldn't be shocked to see new service to Australia via HNL also coming next year.

Returning to Leon is encouraging since the flight did reasonably well when it was operated with a 737-800 a few years ago.

It is DL's stated goal of being the #2 carrier in Central and South America so DL will continue to grow into these markets.

That's my opinion on where the aircraft will be redeployed for winter, and then return to transatlatic for next spring and summer.
 
rwsea
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 21):
Anyone know why HKG hasn't worked out yet?

HKG is out of range from ATL with DL's current fleet. JFK-HKG could work, but there is much more competition (CO, CX).
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 20):
I suspect so. AM's MEX flight were not performing that bad, IIRC, and the main issue with them was their late arrival into SLC, and FIS people not wanting to work so long, especially if the flight was delayed.

For some reason I think that a US flag carrier to MEX form SLC will work substantially better not to mention the time. AM gave up on it very quickly, but many suspect DL will give it a go.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Exusair (Reply 26):
757 ETOPS. See thread on AA's ex TWA 757's and return to lessor in 2007. We can probably see these used on ATL routes to new South American markets such as Brasillia, Recife and Belo Horizonte, in addition to JFK operations to Western Europe. Are these secondary airports in Brazil exempt from the bilateral restrictions?

Unfortantly not, Brazil keep all airports under the bilateral agreement. There is a plan on Congress that will allow additional frequencies to places like Fortaleza, Belem, Recife, Natal and Salvador, but nothing confirmed.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
EddieDude
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 18):
SLC-MEX using a 738 or 752 is VERY likely soon.

Let's hope so. That would be a great addition.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
centrair
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 12:36 pm

Hopefully they can get some more planes and start expanding in Asia.

We have almost every US major flying across the Atlantic and the European Component trying to fly to the US. But not many carriers are going for Asian expansion. SLC could be a great location to launch thin routes to Asia. They could restart NGO and FUK as well as add KIX, CTS, ICN, BUS, PEK, and PVG.

CO has limited flights, DL has only one flight, AA has limited flights, which leaves us with NW and UA controlling the market on the US Side. Asian carriers are just basking in the sun of limited competition on the North American Market.

There are cities in Asia that could do with North American service but can't fill a 777 and bigger.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
EddieDude
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 12:41 pm

I agree that ICN is probably a destination they should serve.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
centrair
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 1:40 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 32):
I agree that ICN is probably a destination they should serve.

In fact I think that if DL starts an Asian expansion, they should do ICN first and take advantage of the Korean Air relationship to feed passengers on to other destinations. In order of importantance as I see it for Asian Expansion (reachable with a 767-300 from SLC):

ICN (KE connection for feed)
PVG (Huge market)
HKG (Big Market)
PEK (Nice size Market)
Smaller cities (KIX, NGO, FUK, CTS, BUS, CAN, etc)

[Edited 2006-05-31 06:41:37]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 1:44 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 31):
SLC could be a great location to launch thin routes to Asia. They could restart NGO and FUK as well as add KIX, CTS, ICN, BUS, PEK, and PVG.

SLC really lacks the O&D right now for such Asian routes and at best would be fourth on DLs list after ATL, JFK and LAX for such flights. But that being said, SLC really needs to rebuild and include a state of the art International terminal rather than the piece of junk they currently have. More than likely in the next few years SLC will get flights to LGW, CDG and FRA for Europe, but Asia will come later perhaps.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 33):
In fact I think that if DL starts an Asian expansion, they should do ICN first and take advantage of the Korean Air relationship to feed passengers on to other destinations. In order of importantance as I see it for Asian Expansion (reachable with a 767-300 from SLC):

A 767-300ER. The non-ERs lack the range for Asia but could handle Central America and the Caribbean a well as northern South America from SLC.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
rwsea
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 35):
Quoting Centrair (Reply 33):
In fact I think that if DL starts an Asian expansion, they should do ICN first and take advantage of the Korean Air relationship to feed passengers on to other destinations. In order of importantance as I see it for Asian Expansion (reachable with a 767-300 from SLC):

A 767-300ER. The non-ERs lack the range for Asia but could handle Central America and the Caribbean a well as northern South America from SLC.

Question: Can the domestic 763 (non-ER version) make it from LAX to Hawaii?
 
OH-LGA
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 3:22 pm

I think I could see DXB and CAI returning to the DL network...

dunno about OSL or ARN - seasonal for summer perhaps, but otherwise unlikely because winter demand drops off big time for Scandinavia...
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 36):
Can the domestic 763 (non-ER version) make it from LAX to Hawaii?

Range-wise, sure, that route's only 2200nm, but it needs at least ETOPS 180, and I don't know that the domestic 763s are capable of ETOPS or whether DL would have ever bothered to have certified them.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 8:10 pm

Atlanta-Leon, Mexico will be re-introduced in December, daily ASA CRJ. ASA will also supplement (and during parts of the year replace) mainline service on ATL-CZM and ATL-MID. Atlanta-Merida has been performing horrendously. If ASA doesn't make it work, the route is good as gone.
a.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 8:26 pm

Still hoping for DL to launch ATL-HMO and/or SLC-HMO, the market should be there.
Also, CVG might actually see a few more international routes, even if just weekly service to Mexican destinations or daily CRJs to Canada. After all, DL is actually restarting a number of routes it had axed out of CVG, like PNS, MGM and a few others, so maybe not all hope is yet lost for CVG.

And perhaps, just perhaps, with a chance of below 1%, MASSPORT migth actually allow DL to have FIS in their terminal at BOS  Yeah sure .
 
yellowtail
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Exusair (Reply 26):
It is DL's stated goal of being the #2 carrier in Central and South America so DL will continue to grow into these markets.


Well wanting to be and actually be able to do it are two different things. DL is having a tough time in MID, BZE, SAP and a few other places. They truly do not understand some of the markets they are trying to serve.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
incitatus
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Wed May 31, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 40):
And perhaps, just perhaps, with a chance of below 1%, MASSPORT migth actually allow DL to have FIS in their terminal at BOS

Massport is actually preventing Delta from piling further losses.

Quoting Exusair (Reply 26):
757 ETOPS. See thread on AA's ex TWA 757's and return to lessor in 2007. We can probably see these used on ATL routes to new South American markets such as Brasillia, Recife and Belo Horizonte, in addition to JFK operations to Western Europe.

Zero chance of success. It is more likely that Delta abandons the nonstop to Rio than that it adds more destinations in Brazil.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 42):
Massport is actually preventing Delta from piling further losses.

And you base this on what?!?
The rooms are already there for FIS at Terminal A, it is just the equipment and employees that need to be added.
Also, Massport is unhappy that DL is not using its terminal so much, well, with the addition of FIS, there would sure be a number of additional flights, which would of course also mean additional gains for Massport in landing/handling/whatever fees.

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 42):
It is more likely that Delta abandons the nonstop to Rio than that it adds more destinations in Brazil.

And you base this assumption on...?!?

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 41):
DL is having a tough time in MID, BZE, SAP and a few other places.

Source?

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 41):
They truly do not understand some of the markets they are trying to serve.

And you know them better?
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 41):
They truly do not understand some of the markets they are trying to serve

What's this supposed to mean?
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 41):
Well wanting to be and actually be able to do it are two different things

We've past the wanting stage. The die is cast. Delta will have the ASMs in place this year to surpass CO in size. They have a PR out stating so.

If you say it will not happen let's hear why?
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 43):
And you know them better?

I think he must mean Delta's agents aren't savvy enough to run a cocaine smuggling operation at their Latin America gateway?

Or maybe they need to present some tin pot dictator a shiny new helicopter as Crandall did?
 
MastaHanky
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 40):
Still hoping for DL to launch ATL-HMO and/or SLC-HMO, the market should be there.

AM ran SLC-HMO a couple of times a week at one time, didn't they? Any idea how that route did? I'm assuming it was pulled at the same time at MEX because of the customs problem in SLC?
 
yellowtail
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 44):
And you know them better?



Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 44):
What's this supposed to mean

There was a previous thread about this some months ago. Delta unlike AA and CO do ZERO local marketing and depend solely on the American traffic, which is very seasonal.They expect people in those markets to just walk into a travel agent and book a ticket on DL or get on the internet. In fact, most call the airline directly. I can speak from experience..I can't even find the DL phone number in the BZE directory! AA and CO on the other hand have offices in these locations, do local marketing and thusly fill their planes with a better mix of pasengers.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 43):
Source?


See replyy 39 above for evidence on Merida. I know in Belize they have dramatically cut frequency and changed times to try to improve. they were Sat only..then daily....now down to only a few days a week. Loads during the Weekdays are horrible. You seen CO loads out of BZE....not too shabby. Ditto for SAP.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Will DL Expand Internationally In 2007?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 47):
AM ran SLC-HMO a couple of times a week at one time, didn't they?

Yes, they did, with MD-87s, once or twice weekly, IIRC.

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 47):
I'm assuming it was pulled at the same time at MEX because of the customs problem in SLC?

It was actually pulled earlier than MEX, though it was indeed the same deal with the late arrival at SLC.

Of course, this all begs the question as to why AM never scheduled their flights to arrive at SLC during the early afternoon, so that they would prove no time problem for the FIS and could also return on the same day. IMO, bad scheduling is the main reason why the flights have not worked out, hence DL with their hub at SLC should have an easier time finding appropriate times to operate the flights. Plus, in the case of HMO, with the EMB-170s they have a plane that might be better suited for such a market than an MD-87.

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