AJMIA
Topic Author
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AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:33 am

It appears that the four weekly MIA-MAN frequencies will not return this winter.

The first year the service was daily, last year there were three weekly flights (F,J,S) and this year there were supposed to be four weekly flights.

I wonder where the equipment will be used??

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
rdwootty
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:39 am

So a disappointment for MAN and even more for AA. I suspect theyshould have tried harder to link with the cruise lines. The flights were not offered last winter as part of a cruise and stay package? Why not as there was a demand but all the clients had to go to London.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:26 am

There have been consistent rumblings about AA's opening a MIA BRU link. AA funnels quite some traffic into SN's extensive European network via its ORD and JFK flights, and a MIA BRU would reinforce this traffic. Apparently MIA BRU is ranked higher than DFW BRU, but I don't know whether that also means that it will eventually happen.
 
jetset7e7
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:22 am

Does this mean the daily BOS 757 flight will go year round?

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
Humberside
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting Jetset7E7 (Reply 3):
Does this mean the daily BOS 757 flight will go year round?

If it did, at least some good would come out of MIA being scrapped

Could GSM make MAN-MIA work based on O&D and cruise traffic?
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dutchjet
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 1):
So a disappointment for MAN and even more for AA. I suspect theyshould have tried harder to link with the cruise lines. The flights were not offered last winter as part of a cruise and stay package? Why not as there was a demand but all the clients had to go to London.

My guess is that yeilds on the MIA-MAN route were wrong.......the cruise line traffic is rather low yeild as well; there was probably little to no premium and biz class demand, thus the route failed. Its a shame, AA should be able to operate more Europeal flights out of its MIA mega-hub.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 2):
There have been consistent rumblings about AA's opening a MIA BRU link. AA funnels quite some traffic into SN's extensive European network via its ORD and JFK flights, and a MIA BRU would reinforce this traffic. Apparently MIA BRU is ranked higher than DFW BRU, but I don't know whether that also means that it will eventually happen.

MIA-BRU has been studied forever, but chances are that it will not happen. Again, its a yeild issue: AA would have no problem filling a daily flight, but at the wrong fares with little J class demand. Citybird did MIA-BRU years ago, planes packed with $299 roundtrip pax. The SN connection could help AA on the BRU-MIA route, but is probably not enough to make the service work. Its a shame, a nonstop BRU-MIA would make my life much easier!!

Both AA and SN flew DFW-BRU......AA in the early 90s and SN for a bit more than a year before they failed. The flight was problematic, in the 1990s is operated with a handful of pax each day and on the second attempt, the SN flight was filled with low-fare pax travelling between Europe and the US west coast and Las Vegas. There is not much incentive to re-start this route.
 
kangarooman
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:49 am

I heard that the 76 that was used on the MAN-MIA route in winter was along with another 76 in the summer going to be used to upgrade the BOS flight to yearound on a 763 i heard that it could be a possibilty as the route is going so well.

Roo
A/C Flown EI 146&320, MYT 763&333, WW 733&735, AZ 319&MD80, LS 146, FR 738, 2L F100, LX 320&321, A3 RJ100, FI 752 AB 738
 
aacun
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:34 am

If this is true, its a shame, I never got to fly the route. But its still showing available for sale this winter season........ When will they be zeroing the flight out.
 
Humberside
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting KangarooMAN (Reply 6):
I heard that the 76 that was used on the MAN-MIA route in winter was along with another 76 in the summer going to be used to upgrade the BOS flight to yearound on a 763 i heard that it could be a possibilty as the route is going so well.

No offence to MAN or BOS, but I would have thought AA have better uses for a B763 than MAN-BOS which can comfortably be done a B752 which is well suited to the route
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MAH4546
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:16 am

It is unfortunate, but AA just wasn't able to make it work. bmi was very close to announcing MIA-MAN, but AA beat them to it and bmi went for Las Vegas instead. I think bmi would have been able to do much better on the route, 2-3x a week, than American Airlines. It is too bad they don't have enough equipment to open MIA now.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
MIA-BRU has been studied forever, but chances are that it will not happen. Again, its a yeild issue: AA would have no problem filling a daily flight, but at the wrong fares with little J class demand. Citybird did MIA-BRU years ago, planes packed with $299 roundtrip pax. The SN connection could help AA on the BRU-MIA route, but is probably not enough to make the service work. Its a shame, a nonstop BRU-MIA would make my life much easier!!

MIA-BRU has been in discussions for ages, as you mentioned. Yield is an issue, just as it hurt MIA-MAN, but as long as it can feed into SN's strong African network, AA/SN can make it work together. If the AA/SN relationship strengthens, it is a matter of when, not if, AA will start MIA-BRU. AA/SN can take advantage of high-yield connecting traffic to Africa and Tel Aviv. With a lack of anti-trust with BA, AA has no strong partner across the Atlantic. SN Brussels is in a great position to become their strong Atlantic partner, which will make flights from Brussels to Miami, Boston, and Dallas only a matter of time. If all goes well, AA will be announcing Brussels-Bombay for a start in 2007 (daily 763), and possibly a new US tag to go with it.

Quoting KangarooMAN (Reply 6):
I heard that the 76 that was used on the MAN-MIA route in winter was along with another 76 in the summer going to be used to upgrade the BOS flight to yearound on a 763 i heard that it could be a possibilty as the route is going so well.

BOS-MAN does very well because it is a 757. A 763 would pretty much kill the route.
a.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:30 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
there was probably little to no premium and biz class demand, thus the route failed. Its a shame, AA should be able to operate more Europeal flights out of its MIA mega-hub.

I non-revved MIA-MAN several times in late '04 and again in '05 and J class both times had less than 10 passengers in a 30 passenger cabin while the back was full. You are right though, it's a shame they could not make this work since I find MIA to be a nice alternative for Trans-Atlantic travel on AA...
 
rdwootty
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:28 pm

I do not understand airlines that have a route that is only tourist traffic keeping the premium cabin as is. Why not regrade the cabin for those routes to a economy Select with a premium cost and economy service. A lot of customers want the space but do not need the frills. this would keep the aircraft at its original configuration and make money on the " empty " business class seats.If it was a Three class ship then just keep the first class for Business and then regrade the Business to a premiumj product.Just a note the AA 757 to Boston does have premium seats but they cannot be booked just used at the airport for card members and so on...They could offer this Premium on that route and make more money. I do not see why the airlines are so concerned about regrading on different routes . if they can fill the aircraft thats what they need.
 
Scottiedog
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 11):
ust a note the AA 757 to Boston does have premium seats but they cannot be booked just used at the airport for card members and so on

Things might have changed, but the First Class domestic cabin was pre-reservable if you had a full Y or Y2 fare. I did many bookings for travellers when I was on reservations a couple of years ago and, provided the correct booking class was used, then seat allocation at time of booking could be done. It was not restricted to AAdvantage card holders only.

Scottie Dog
 
Daleaholic
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:34 am

This is a real shame as I was lookin forward to possibly flying this route. Anybody think there is a chance that any airline would fly this route?
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
B752OS
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
BOS-MAN does very well because it is a 757. A 763 would pretty much kill the route.

I would not go as far as to say the roue would die. A good friend of mine flies the BOS-MAN-BOS route on a bi-monthly basis and on his last trip, he was talking with one of the AA managers in BOS about the route. In short, the manager said the route does well for AA, and they are pleased with its performance. Another point made was that the route could sustain larger equipment(763) for probably 3-4 weekly frequencies, with the other days working with the 752(this is based on daily passenger numbers). Of course this won't happen as AA is not keen on sending the 763s into BOS, aside from the CDG flights and I am sure AA would rather send them on routes out of ORD and DFW.


MAH, did Sabena ever fly the MIA-BRU route? I always thought they did, but was not sure.
 
miaskies
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):
did Sabena ever fly the MIA-BRU route? I always thought they did, but was not sure.

CityBird flew MIA-BRU in the 90's
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
kkfla737
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
AA will be announcing Brussels-Bombay for a start in 2007 (daily 763), and possibly a new US tag to go with it.

If this is true, a win-win for both SN and AA. Inspite of AA's participation in OneWorld, I really believe AA has some great potential with SN. First off SN and AA's route networks hardly collide, so unlike AA/BA, NW/KL, DL/AF, UA/LH, etc each airline has a vested interest in the alliance and will not step on one another's toes. Secondly, Brussels is an excellent and under-utilized connecting point for US to India services. I know Jet Airways intends to route US flights via BRU when they get authority to serve the US. Also the anti-trust problems with British and American authorities and the whole Heathrow slot issue means AA needs to pursue other options because right now AA, despite being either the #1 or # 2 US airline across the Atlantic in RPMs is not tied in very well with its European partners for connecting opportunities.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
bmi was very close to announcing MIA-MAN, but AA beat them to it and bmi went for Las Vegas instead.

Yes, MAH I recall this and was dissapointed. I thought a MIA-MAN route would have worked better in Star's network than in that of AA and One World. AA obviously offers more far connecting possibilities in Miami than the entire Star roster of carriers, but the traffic was going to be O&D based or at least European based and on that end I thought BMI had an edge.
 
Humberside
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 16):
I thought BMI had an edge.

bmi dont care about long haul at MAN. As soon as there is EU-US open skies they will axe all long haul flights at MAN

The best airline in my opinion for MAN-MIA would be FlyGlobespan
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gayrugbyman
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:39 am

AA are currently taking on more staff at MAN, with rumours of a west coast USA service in the pipeline! Hope it happens!
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):
MAH, did Sabena ever fly the MIA-BRU route? I always thought they did, but was not sure.

It was put into reservation systems to start in summer 2000, but was never launched, though it was bookable.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
BOS-MAN does very well because it is a 757. A 763 would pretty much kill the route.

I would not go as far as to say the roue would die.

I would. The route does excellent because of the type of aircraft used. If AA could use a 757 on MIA-MAN, it would have the same great results that BOS-MAN has. There is little business traffic to speak of, and the capacity of the 757 is just right to get good yields out of a low-yield market. A 763 will put too much capacity on the route and create empty business class cabins (AA isn't about to sell a 763 as all-Y). Not to mention it will mean having to take a 763 from another, more important European route. The success of BOS-MAN, allowing AA to find a perfect aircraft for the market, is why BOS-CDG may become a 757 in the near future. MIA-MAN and BOS-MAN have essentially the same exact low-yield leisure traffic with little business traffic to make a widebody with 30J profitable.

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 18):
AA are currently taking on more staff at MAN, with rumours of a west coast USA service in the pipeline! Hope it happens!

American Airlines is not opening up any route between MAN and the West Coast.
a.
 
by738
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:18 am

what about further UK AA 757 routes ?
GLA-BOS GLA-JFK NCL-JFK (again)
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
If all goes well, AA will be announcing Brussels-Bombay for a start in 2007 (daily 763), and possibly a new US tag to go with it.

thanks for the update...where would the flight commence at? JFK? MIA? ORD? DFW?

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 18):
AA are currently taking on more staff at MAN, with rumours of a west coast USA service in the pipeline! Hope it happens!



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):

American Airlines is not opening up any route between MAN and the West Coast.

darn, I was hoping for an SFO/SJC-MAN flight..... Sad
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:17 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
If all goes well, AA will be announcing Brussels-Bombay for a start in 2007 (daily 763), and possibly a new US tag to go with it.

thanks for the update...where would the flight commence at? JFK? MIA? ORD? DFW?

While it is a poorly kept secret that AA plans on flying Bombay-Brussels, it is a well kept secret where it originates. Regardless, if AA goes ahead with BRU-BOM, a third daily USA-BRU flight will be likely, and it would obviously be from Dallas or Miami. Miami offers stronger O&D and LatAm connections than Dallas, and strong Miami-originating traffic to connect in Brussels to Africa. However, it wouldn't provide significant feed to the Bombay flight like Dallas likely would.

[Edited 2006-06-09 03:18:47]
a.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:48 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
While it is a poorly kept secret that AA plans on flying Bombay-Brussels, it is a well kept secret where it originates. Regardless, if AA goes ahead with BRU-BOM, a third daily USA-BRU flight will be likely, and it would obviously be from Dallas or Miami. Miami offers stronger O&D and LatAm connections than Dallas, and strong Miami-originating traffic to connect in Brussels to Africa. However, it wouldn't provide significant feed to the Bombay flight like Dallas likely would.

thanks MAH4546... thumbsup 

would be interesting though if they served ORD-BRU-BOM...but maybe they don't need a 2nd ORD-India flight right now...and certainly not a 2nd ORD-BRU flight...
"Up the Irons!"
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:09 pm

I'm suprised MIA would have more O&D since the Indian American population in DFW is 100K these days. And double MIA's population back during the last census. Also Zales, Telecom Industry, IT companies have a large presence in DFW.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:31 pm

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 24):
I'm suprised MIA would have more O&D since the Indian American population in DFW is 100K these days. And double MIA's population back during the last census. Also Zales, Telecom Industry, IT companies have a large presence in DFW.

MIA has significatly more O&D to Brussels (and Europe in general), not India, as I mentioned. Dallas wins there. The question is if the feed that a Dallas flight can provide to the India tag-on outweighs the O&D and African connections that a Miami flight can fill.
a.
 
B752OS
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:43 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
I would. The route does excellent because of the type of aircraft used. If AA could use a 757 on MIA-MAN, it would have the same great results that BOS-MAN has. There is little business traffic to speak of, and the capacity of the 757 is just right to get good yields out of a low-yield market. A 763 will put too much capacity on the route and create empty business class cabins (AA isn't about to sell a 763 as all-Y). Not to mention it will mean having to take a 763 from another, more important European route. The success of BOS-MAN, allowing AA to find a perfect aircraft for the market, is why BOS-CDG may become a 757 in the near future. MIA-MAN and BOS-MAN have essentially the same exact low-yield leisure traffic with little business traffic to make a widebody with 30J profitable.

As I had mentioned, I doubt AA would take a 763 from say ORD or DFW, and put it on a BOS-MAN flight, I only meant it could work. Agree to disagree.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
It was put into reservation systems to start in summer 2000, but was never launched, though it was bookable.

Why was it never launched? Lack of equipment?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
MIA has significatly more O&D to Brussels (and Europe in general), not India, as I mentioned. Dallas wins there. The question is if the feed that a Dallas flight can provide to the India tag-on outweighs the O&D and African connections that a Miami flight can fill.

I must ask the question, how diverse would that African O&D be from Miami? I know about the South African population, but if that is going to make up the bulk of the traffic, would AA be better off flying out of DFW where it can capture more United States passengers connecting through DFW? As you know, AA has a pretty large Latin America network out of DFW, and coupled with the amount of American cities it could pull traffic from, would DFW be the better fit?


I always imagined AA using the 752 on more European routes out of BOS to BRU or even GLA. Call me crazy or stupid if you want, but Boston has a large European population and for a non hub city, BOS does pretty well with European flights considering they are based on O&D alone.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA MIA-MAN Not Returning This Winter

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 26):
I must ask the question, how diverse would that African O&D be from Miami? I know about the South African population, but if that is going to make up the bulk of the traffic, would AA be better off flying out of DFW where it can capture more United States passengers connecting through DFW?

Very diverse. Brussels doesn't even have service to South Africa. There is a healthy amount of traffic form South Florida especially to Nigeria, Senegal, and Ghana, among other countries.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 26):
As you know, AA has a pretty large Latin America network out of DFW, and coupled with the amount of American cities it could pull traffic from, would DFW be the better fit?

AA does not have a large LatAm network out of DFW. They serve key cities, but it is not large when you take out Mexico. The question is simple, which can bring AA more money: traffic connecting/originating in Dallas going to India or traffic connecting/originating in Miami going to Brussels. The former is most likely higher yielding, the latter is most likely significantly larger. The ideal situation, IMO, is fly MIA-BRU in the winter and DFW-BRU in the summer.

Quoting B752OS (Reply 26):
I always imagined AA using the 752 on more European routes out of BOS to BRU or even GLA. Call me crazy or stupid if you want, but Boston has a large European population and for a non hub city, BOS does pretty well with European flights considering they are based on O&D alone.

The problem is yield. AA has been very close to launching BOS-GLA and BOS-BRU with 757s, but they don't think they yields will work. BOS-GLA was canceled at the 11th hour because AA feared another JFK-NCL where the yields just wouldn't work out.
a.

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