747400sp
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:01 am

I notice that since the late 60's people will move near a airport and then complain about the noise. I do not get people like that, why are going to move near airport if you can not take the noise. Because of people like this, the Concorde did not have regular service to LAX. It because of people like this the 747 do not sound as robust as they use to. It because of people like this that there no new SST flying today. Even here in Va they are talking about closing down NAS Oceania because people who live near the base, can not stand the noise. If you can not take airplane noise please do not move near airport, you are be a pain in us airplane lovers neck.
 
srbmod
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I notice that since the late 60's people will move near a airport and then complain about the noise. I do not get people like that, why are going to move near airport if you can not take the noise. Because of people like this, the Concorde did not have regular service to LAX. It because of people like this the 747 do not sound as robust as they use to. It because of people like this that there no new SST flying today. Even here in Va they are talking about closing down NAS Oceania because people who live near the base, can not stand the noise. If you can not take airplane noise please do not move near airport, you are be a pain in us airplane lovers neck.




I live close enough south of ATL that we get flights that fly over the house (usually EV ATRs). We'll also get some low flights whenever the weather is bad @ ATL (I've seen DL widebodies flying low enough that I could almost read the registration). I'm not bothered by it at all. When I lived out in Gwinnett County years ago, our house was right in the flight path of ATL and of Dobbins/NAS Atlanta. I was in heaven whenever a C-5 flew over.


These people bought these house for one reason, these houses are cheap due to their location. These folks make up the majority of the NIMBYs who have killed airport projects all over. What's odd is that you rarely read in the paper about anyone complaining about live near railroad tracks......
 
777wt
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:53 am

I agree. HPN was fine until this dumb developer built a community and houses right under the approach of runway 34.

The airport WAS built and used as a air national guard airport before. The developers built homes about less than 10 years ago and then when people moved in then b!tched and complain about the noises from the GA and coporate jets.
Now let me tell you this, look up the area of Purchase, NY. That's the area where the complaints are coming from. If you take a drive down there, they are easy over a million dollars houses in that area. Surely people weren't cheap when they brought those houses, the demand and cost of living is quite high here.

Then this stupid jock@$$ mayor Andrew Spano of the county HPN is located in, he sides with the people living in that area and goes ahead and imposes a curfew of no flights from 12am to 6am.

When I started training for my PPL, I had to sign a voluntary agreement that I won't fly between 12am and 6am at HPN.

There are coporate jets that had to break the curfew due to their clients needing the flights earlier than 6am and quite a few airlines such as American Eagle and US airways voliated the curfew also because they needed to depart no matter what in order to get the planes to the next airport for it's next flight at the begining of the day.

The county police even went out (I'm sure under the order of Andrew Spano) and tried to stop the travelers from entering the airport before 6am to discourage from breaking the curfew, hell they even brought in riot gear!
The police blocked the road entering the airport parking lot.
Guess what the travelers did? They parked on the side of the road and walked into the airport past the police and managed to get on the flights.

This police option didn't work because the FAA got a wind of it and argued with the airport over this issue. The result? HPN lost more than half of the Federal funding because to receive the Federal funding, the airport must remain open 24 hours.

I drove to the area where the most complaints came from and arrivals were using runway 34, the coporate jets were coming in low on final which looked like about 500 ft AGL there.
Now it puzzles me why the developer build a community of houses there where a Enviromental study could have taken the low flying aircraft into account?!

I say tell all these people to move out and let airport workers, pilots and mechanics live around the airport where they used to live  Wink

2 years ago I went on a fly-in with a group of private pilots at HPN to ABE for a steak dinner during sunset.
Then flew back with the group at midnight, the runway lights were off and had to be turned on by mic because HPN was "closed".
It was a clear night and 0kts wind at HPN that night. The group picked runway 34 just to go over these houses who complained about the noise and proceed to land in that direction! I was number 3 in line from the lead.

Now think of over ten 172's, two 182's, a King Air 350 and a TMB700 landing on runway 34 between 12am and 1am. It was fun 

[Edited 2006-06-01 02:56:41]
 
kaniksu
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:06 am

This happens everywhere. Even here where I live a lot of nice houses are going up on the hill that faces the airport. I personally would love to live there and see the planes flying in but I know of people that complain. My friends live in a suburb of Tucson and they had to sign a waiver of some kind due to the noise from the military jets.
 
IAHFLYR
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:15 am

Oh love this topic......Let's build a house over here honey, such a nice area, look at all those airplanes flying low and descending, must be an airport over here!!! Dumb as a rock if they don't like noise from airplanes.

IAH classic example as many others are! New runway north side of the airport is being looked at years back, all the T's cross and I's dotted by the city aviation dept. and yes, even the FAA as far as Environmental Impacts etc.....not a word from the surrouding communities. Then the Runway 8L/26R opens, a mere 5,000' north of Runway 8R/26L that is an original runway at the airport, all of a sudden bammmmmm, noise beyond control......do we see or hear noise is my question? Next, all the airplanes are for the most part new generation airplanes, not the B727, MD80, DC9's other than NW that is still flying them........the folks want noise then I say lets bring back triple simultaneous appoaches with those old aircraft, then they can complain about noise! Then there is SNA, and SEA, and I can go on and on but most of you know better than I.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
747srule
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:25 am

Why don't we just put all the deaf people in airport housing????
Jesus is the way,the truth,and the life
 
IAHFLYR
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting 747srule (Reply 5):
Why don't we just put all the deaf people in airport housing????

There's an idea
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
scotron11
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:26 am

Let's face it, airports are attractive. The old adage "You build 'em they will come" has never been so true when it comes to airports.

Look at DFW. When originally built, it was in the middle of nowhere. Look at it now. Businesses and homes are all sprouting around it.

Same with LHR. All those idiots screaming they don't want any increase in traffic, runways, night flights etc. What they seem to forget, LHR is the engine that fuels their success!

Recently, The Town & Country Planning Assc. called for LHR to be replaced with.......guess what? .............homes!!
 
san747
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:37 am

Story of SAN's life, and why the future of SAN is in such doubt. The good ol' NIMBYs, who unfortunately have a lot of power because most are pretty affluent, have all but guaranteed that wherever the new airport will be, it will be bitterly fought.

They complain about house values, but they don't realize that the improved economy that comes with a fully functional, NON-stymied airport will over time increase the value of their property...

They complain about noise, but they don't realize that airliners follow soon-to-be even more stringent noise rules once Stage IV comes in force, which the military DOES NOT have to follow. It takes 7-8 787s to equal the sound/noise signature of a military aircraft like the F/A-18...

Need I go on? I hate stupid people, and I hate obstinate people who do not at least consider changing their views if they are proved logically/scientifically wrong. NIMBYs fit both those categories. The end.
Scotty doesn't know...
 
roseflyer
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:43 am

I can sympathisize a bit with NIMBYs after spending 6 months living next to an airport used by the air national guard. At times the loud miltary jets were annoying. However it is something that you learn to live with.

GA traffic is no big deal to me. I personally would not live near a huge airport though.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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EK413
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:22 pm

I live right next to Sydney Kingsford Smith International Airport & I personally am fed up with the residents complaining about 'THE NOISE'.... I receive noise from aircraft departing off runways 25, 16R, 34L & 34R & arrivals on runways 07 & 25 and you know what, it doesnt bother me at ALL...I love it!
Airports are behind the great success of citys such as FRA, AMS, CDG, LAX, SYD, LHR, HKG and up until now all we hear are the residents complaining about nothing else but 'THE NOISE' !!!
Live with it!!!

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
levent
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:49 pm

Maybe some people move into a home near an airport not only because it is cheaper, but also because they hope to get some sort of compensation?

Personally I would LOVE to live near a major airport!

Another extremely annoying thing is people complaining about medevac helicopters for example. I remember in Holland there was an issue with the helicopter used to get victims to the "Brandwondencentrum" (burns unit) in Beverwijk. The people living in the building next door complained about the chopper's noise and guess what? The helicopter flights were restricted! Can you believe it? I would like to see their reaction if a loved one had to be rushed there...
 
DesertAir
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:27 pm

While looking for a place to live in Tucson I checked out a small neighborhood on the south side of town. I could hear loud jet noise and noticed that the F-16s from the Arizona National Air Guard turned right above on their landing patterns. Thank You...no!
Often folks buy houses next to schools and then complain that there are children around.
 
ZRH
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:47 pm

It is the same here in Zurich. Specifically the people in the north of the airport bought cheap houses and are now complaining about the noise. The people in the south I can understand because this region was never overflown since the airport exists (it is very dense populated). The landings from the south are new because of these stupid German regulations which don't allow anymore enough landings from the north over German territory, which we had since 50 years.
 
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EK413
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:52 pm

ZRH

German regulations which don't allow anymore enough landings from the north over German territory, which we had since 50 years.


Why is that? You mind explaining this regulation? I remember watching a DVD onboard a Swiss International Airlines flight from Bangkok to Zurich and remember the pilot bringing up this very same regulation regarding aircraft not authorized to approach over German territory??? I can't work out these stupid regualtions "You can fly over our land but we can't fly over yours"!

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
ZRH
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
Why is that? You mind explaining this regulation?

The best, easiest, most efficient and safest way to handle the incoming traffic at ZRH is landing from north on the runways 14 and 16. This was done about 40 years. The flight paths go over German territory (about 14 miles before the runway you are over Switzerland, river Rhine). A few years ago the German villages north of the Swiss boarder complained in Berlin that there is too much noise and ZRH should not anymore be allowed to have landings from the north in early morning, evening and on Sundays. So Berlin decided to make such regulations. The landing procedures in Zurich became very difficult because they were forced to land at these times from south over a very densely populated region (more than 1 mi people). Actually in the north, in Germany and Switzerland there are not many people, no big cities and they are used to it since 40 years. I have been in the closest German village to the airport, Hohentengen, which is right under the path. The complain about the noise is ridiculous. The aircrafts are still quite high and not louder than a motorcycle on the street.
Important thing to add: the Germans complained that it would be not fair that they had the most noise of Zurich airport. This is absolutely against the facts. They have the landing noise (only till 14 miles before the r/w, where the planes are still quite high). But all the take-off noise, which is much louder, is in the west and south of the airport, completely over Swiss territory.

[Edited 2006-06-01 16:24:57]

[Edited 2006-06-01 16:26:10]

[Edited 2006-06-01 16:44:04]
 
Tod
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Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:31 pm

The situation with SEA has been incredibly stupid. When planning for the third runway construction, the port defined the area where they would buy out existing homes. The city of Burien is on the west side of SEA and the city council strongly opposed the new runway. Just to screw with the Port of Seattle, Burien issued building permits for new homes, knowing that they were in the buy-out zone. The sole purpose was to cost SEA more money. To top it off, the city was continously took legal action against SEA. It was nice to see my city tax dollars beings spent on lawyers just so my county tax dollars that subsidize SEA could be spent on more lawyers to fight back. Just one of the reasons I sold my house in a great spotting location and moved out of town.

Tod
 
BBJII
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Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:06 am

What a Great thread:

When LCY was built, most residents complined that the noise would be horrendus:

Now the same poeple are saying the airport is quiter than the docks ever where. It's the people that have moved into the area that are now complaining.

Well folks, there airport was there before you, you chose to buy the house near the airport.

As said above, homes near airports are generally cheaper, because of the noise element.

But how many airports close for 24 hours at the weekend FOR the residents?

 wave 
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
NZ8800
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Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:51 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 2):
Now think of over ten 172's, two 182's, a King Air 350 and a TMB700 landing on runway 34 between 12am and 1am. It was fun

I love it!!! I think I would have accidentally done a missed approach and gone around again at full power at that... oops!!!

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 7):
Same with LHR. All those idiots screaming they don't want any increase in traffic, runways, night flights etc. What they seem to forget, LHR is the engine that fuels their success!

Yes - London would be much the poorer without good old Heathrow - third busiest international airport in the world, and I think the most important in terms of connecting different continents/parts of the world.

Quoting Levent (Reply 11):
Maybe some people move into a home near an airport not only because it is cheaper, but also because they hope to get some sort of compensation?

I would not be in the least surprised. Some people are very greedy.

Quoting Levent (Reply 11):
The people living in the building next door complained about the chopper's noise and guess what? The helicopter flights were restricted! Can you believe it? I would like to see their reaction if a loved one had to be rushed there...

A hospital helicopter - they should be ashamed of themselves. Our one goes out quite often - being the only secondary hospital for 100 miles - or to rescue people on the mountain (Mount Egmont/Taranaki). It's noisy as hell, but its necessary and important.

Quoting ZRH (Reply 13):
It is the same here in Zurich. Specifically the people in the north of the airport bought cheap houses and are now complaining about the noise

Idiots! They knew there was an airport there.

Quoting Tod (Reply 16):
It was nice to see my city tax dollars beings spent on lawyers just so my county tax dollars that subsidize SEA could be spent on more lawyers to fight back

That is utterly crazy! Can see it happening though.

Quoting BBJII (Reply 17):
When LCY was built, most residents complined that the noise would be horrendus:

Now the same poeple are saying the airport is quiter than the docks ever where. It's the people that have moved into the area that are now complaining.

LCY has special conditions on the aeroplanes that can operate into it and special approach procedures - these people need to put up and shut up!
Ports can be very noisy though, we hear the noise of the cranes from Port Taranaki all night sometimes.

The exception is where houses were there BEFORE the airport was built, such as WLG; which also has special terrain limitations - therefore the noise abatement procedures are strict, and the curfew enforced rigorously - and in this case, good point.
AKL also has fairly strict noise abatement procedures, mostly for when banking to the north, over the city. Luckily, final approach to the west is over Manukau Harbour until touchdown, and mostly over the industrial zone of Wiri when coming in from the east. A Boeing 747 with gear and flaps down at 500ft making an infernal racket is quite a sight!
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
 
A380CGN
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Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting BBJII (Reply 17):
Well folks, there airport was there before you, you chose to buy the house near the airport.

Yeah, I also like this thread. It's just right to load off my anger about those people living near airports and complaining about noise.  banghead 
I live near the glidepath of 14L in CGN and I hear many of the airplanes twice: Once to the right of my house when they are coming in from south and then a minute or two later on the left hand side when they are finally approaching rwy 14L. And I don't mind the noise. We have UPS cargo-traffic all night long but I don't hear that anymore, I got used to the sound and I like to see the airplanes flying by my window. The best was when the An-224 flew over my house... I tell you, the china was shaking in the cupboard but I liked that experience and seeing the AN-224 right over my garden  goodvibes  Big grin . I guess some other people immediately grabbed their phones and complained...
So now they have so many complaints that it is unsure whether CGN may keep their permission for 24 h operation in a few years, and then UPS gets a big problem...  worried  but that's another thing.
 
StevenG
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:39 am

Only a few dozen of people living around AMS and RTM manage to produce hundreds of thousands complaints every year. Despite searching on google.com I couldn't find the exact numbers but if I remember correctly the number of complaints regarding noise at AMS is getting close to one million every year. Correct me if I am wrong. This pratice is going on at least since the mid-eighties. In the early seventies my parents moved to a town 20 kilometers from AMS (right under the approach path to rwy 06) and in those days hardly anyone complained about the noise. Be aware, those were the days when the 707's and DC8's ruled the skies. For those living close the newly constructed and already infamous Polderbaan (01L-18R) I think it's different, at least I can understand their feelings as it wasn't their choice to have the runway nearby. Those who live near the runways which are in use since 1967 should think twice before starting to complain.
But on the other hand, after talking about soccer complaining seems to be Holland's most favourite pastime.

Maybe the people living in the Rotterdam-area remember the story dating from 10 years ago when 12 people complained at the local environmental and health authorities about a plane leaving RTM bound for Turkey at noon. The authorities checked with the control tower or ATC-centre and it turned out that no plane had left at all that hour. Later it turned out that the complainers had checked the flight-schedules for that day on TV (the equivalent of CNN Text or BBC Ceefax) but in the schedules it wasn't mentioned yet that the flight had been delayed and hadn't even arrived yet from Turkey! For a while afterwards it was quiet around RTM. I mean the noise from those who were complaining.

Quoting Levent (Reply 11):
Another extremely annoying thing is people complaining about medevac helicopters for example. I remember in Holland there was an issue with the helicopter used to get victims to the "Brandwondencentrum" (burns unit) in Beverwijk. The people living in the building next door complained about the chopper's noise and guess what? The helicopter flights were restricted! Can you believe it? I would like to see their reaction if a loved one had to be rushed there...

Levent,

Things are some different here. In 1995-1996 I was working as a part-time lawyer for an environmental law organisation in Amsterdam and to some extent dealing with legal actions from people living very close to the heli-platform located on the roof of a hospital. Before I became involved your thoughts now were almost similar to mine back then. Those people were certainly not NIMBY's as they were living in the vicinity of rwy 06-27 and close to some major highways (the A10-south). At least it scared them off having the helicopter passing over their heads several times a day and it was loud indeed! We found out that both the hospital and the environmental care authorities didn't provide adequate or proper information about the noise which changed my points of view on the project quickly. However I switched jobs in that same period so I lost track about was going on, but the court in Holland dealing with environmental law related affairs decided in favour of the hospital. Only when it is dark, the helicopters are not allowed to fly out and in. Today hardly any complaints are heard as a new type of helicopter (with lower noise levels) is now in use.

I am not sure about the relation but a similar project in Rotterdam has been stationed at RTM and not in a populated area.

The purpose of using a helicopter however is mainly to bring medical staff (doctors or surgeons) to the scene of an accident as soon as possible and to execute those medical treatments which ambulance staffmembers are not allowed to do as their skills and training are on a different level. For example: anesthetics and providing certain medicins. As soon as the victim has been brought into a more stable condition, he or she will be transported by an ambulance to a hospital. Only very occassionally the helicopter is being used to bring a victim to a hospital, as it is very difficult if not impossible to perform medical treatments on a patient in a helicopter and as soon as the victim is in a more stable condition, the urge for speeding is not always that important. This can be confirmed by members of the trauma-team.

Concerning the burns unit, I think you are referring to the tragedy on the turn of the year 2001 when several teenagers died or were terribly injured in a fire in a bar in the town of Volendam, about 15 kilometers north of Amsterdam. There was some outrage afterwards that the helicopter could not be sent in because of 'those environmental rules to forbid the helicopter to fly after 7.00 pm'. This statement however lost its value as some nurses and doctors explained in the media that even if the helicopter was allowed to fly - it was just after midnight - it wouldn't have made a real difference. Furthermore safety issues are also involved due to landing a helicopter in a terrain when it's dark and where the pilot probably is not well known, increases the risks of more accidents.
This even applies abroad. For example my brother was involved in a serious accident with a snowmobile near Vancouver 5 years ago and at first instance a helicopter would transport him to a hospital. As darkness was about to set in, the helicopter could not fly out so he was transported in an ambulance. Fortunately he recovered quite fast and these days I hear him complaining more frequently about the fact that so far only one of his pictures has been published on a.net than about not being airlifted to the hospital.

Kind regards
Steven
 
aileron11
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:02 am

This is a good one, this lady lives very close to TEB and on the local news channel she was interviewed and said this
I lived here since 1985. With all the technology we have the jet engines are getting louder instead of quieter. I laughed when I heard that.
Jersey Lou
 
B6JFKH81
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:04 am

Here in NY there is FRG airport. Originally the production airport for the A10, it is now a GA and Corporate Airport. For safety reasons, FRG wanted to "reclaim" the displaced threashold on RWY19 so they could literally "shift" the runway north a few hundred feet and have a better buffer on both the north and south. The runway was not actually being extended, just shifted. The idiots around that area called their lawyers immediately to stop this from happening because they said "bigger planes can land". The funny part about it all is that if they would allow the extension of RWY1/19 and putting in an ILS on that runway, they could route all the large a/c in on that runway (which comes in over an industrial park and out over a lower income area that doesn't complain) instead of the RWY that brings them in and out over their houses!!! They just don't listen!!!  banghead 
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
scintx
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Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:25 am

As one another poster said that DFW was built in the middle of nothing, well its been several years, but they (DFW) finally settled with the NIMBY's and bought their houses and I assume bulldozed them? Here in modern America we have a victim complex and plenty of activist to support it. At the time this event took place in Irving I was shocked when they complained about the so called noise. Did you not go outside before you bought the place? Did not see planes landing or taking off? Did they have any clue as to the location of the airport? We need to create a DumbA$$ tax for idiots. I once heard a guy say "Give me your cause and I'll find the statistics to prove it". I'm sorry that I'm venting, but I am tired of the victim complex NIMBY's. I love nothing more than to wake up in the morning with the smell of jet fuel and the beautiful sound of a 727 on take off.
Attention All Planets of the Solar Federation....We have assumed control.....We have assumed control......
 
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SLCUT2777
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Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I notice that since the late 60's people will move near a airport and then complain about the noise. I do not get people like that, why are going to move near airport if you can not take the noise. Because of people like this, the Concorde did not have regular service to LAX. It because of people like this the 747 do not sound as robust as they use to. It because of people like this that there no new SST flying today. Even here in Va they are talking about closing down NAS Oceania because people who live near the base, can not stand the noise. If you can not take airplane noise please do not move near airport, you are be a pain in us airplane lovers neck.

Oh yes, a thread I can enjoy, and truly rant and rave at1 I live and work in Salt Lake City, my office is right underneath the approach path to SLC runway 34R-16L and it is fun to see all of those DL wide-bodies coming in during peak hours, or on mornings when a storm front is approaching seeing WN 737s headed out southbound to get into the departure pattern. Several years ago when the airport added the west runway (34L-16R), there were many in the West Valley city area who complained about the airport expansion and whined about; "Why the city and state didn't try and move the airport out into Tooele County even further west. I truly amazes me where NIMBY's can turn up. Those of you who are familiar with Salt Lake City know that the West Valley City area is a poor area full of "Trailer Court Trash," housing projects crawling with gang bangers and other politically incorrect stuff I'd rather not describe or risk getting into trouble with on this thread! banghead 
Salt Lake City has taken numerous planning steps to preserve a significant amount of open space inn and around SLC International for years. Most of the land to the south of the airport is zoned for Commercial or Industrial uses, yet there is always some loud mouth bent on making problems. It just gauls me that these people would think SLC could come up with enough money to think we could do as DEN did and relocate further out!  devil   dollarsign 
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
PanAm747
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Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:30 am

One of the smartest things ever done, in my opinion, was DEN's move to the new site.

Despite cries from the ignorant that "it's too far out in the middle of nowhere!!"  hissyfit , it followed its plan of NOT allowing itself to be built too near houses.

Now that the city has grown up the edge of the airport (technically making it "no longer in the middle of nowhere"), new residents sign a paper when they buy a home: There is a 24 hour a day airport nearby. By signing this paper, you understand that you are moving within hearing distance of the airport. You further understand that you cannot sue to move the airport or close the airport at certain hours.

In California, the ludicrous mentality of "get the airport out of my neighborhood but preserve those $99 transcontinental fares" reigns supreme. To listen to people in the Miramar area of San Diego, you would think every jet plane belched smoke like Howard Stern's Fartman character and even at landing produced 300 decibels. However, ask them about military traffic that is even louder, and you'll hear double-speak like "that's the sound of freedom, boy!!".

The broken-down radio station here called Southern California only plays one song - "Can't We Just Make Everybody Use LAX?". That moldy oldy, that tired overplayed droning is STILL a hit, even though LAX has told everyone, in essence, to "go pound sound - we are going to limit capacity at LAX".

Wait until airports in SoCal are slot restricted - I'm going to do a BIG chorus of another one of my favorites, "TOLD YOU SO!! TOLD YOU SO!! TOLD YOU SO!!"  praise 
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
N751PR
Posts: 1210
Joined: Thu May 09, 2002 6:06 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 25):

Wait until airports in SoCal are slot restricted - I'm going to do a BIG chorus of another one of my favorites, "TOLD YOU SO!! TOLD YOU SO!! TOLD YOU SO!!"

Ok if I could join you? Big grin We could hit it up in the Walt Disney Concert Hall if the worst comes to worst.  bouncy 
"Ladies and Gentlemen it's happy hour. You will get two approaches for the price of one."
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Scintx (Reply 23):
bought their houses and I assume bulldozed them?

They sell the houses in the SEA buy-out zone and there is an odd little cottage industry of house moving businesses. It created a strange place to visit. The roads are still there, but block off from traffic. Driveways and front steps to nowhere. Old fruit trees overgown with other vegetation. It was a great place to teach my kids to ride bikes and do some plane spotting at the same time.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 25):
new residents sign a paper when they buy a home: There is a 24 hour a day airport nearby. By signing this paper, you understand that you are moving within hearing distance of the airport. You further understand that you cannot sue to move the airport or close the airport at certain hours.

That should be done near every airport. At my home I had to sign something similar concern "agricultural odors". No farms nearby, just county CYA.

Tod
 
TurkishWings
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:57 pm

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:03 am

And I keep thinking.. These people who complain complain and complain...Don't they ever fly?
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:19 am

Personally, I'm waiting for the FED to grow a pair and condemn any home in the 60 CNEL around airports, smash them and end any Curfews/Noise Restrictions. Turn the land into nice green parks where those idiots can go and cry over their past home while watching aircraft fly over them. There isn't a single curfew or noise restricted airport on the planet that wasn't there before the homes. It's freakin absurd. I mean, for about $20 billion spent federally several major airports could add 10-15% more capacity overnight by knocking off homes and extending their runways, and without the curfew each independent runway can support about 80 gates. A few mildly terrain impacted airports could improve their takeoff and landing minimums as well by just shaving some land. The money would be paid back ten fold in terms of net capacity gain and system efficiency.

Screw the neighbors. Don't even get me started on the ass clowns in San Diego. Double screw them...And the City for taking NTC that could provide an additional 2000-3000' of runway allowign better take off distance to the east...Dumb asses. Bitch about the airport and understand it's limitations, but don't support moving it either, then build around it. Bravo dumbasses!!! Then posting crap like this on the city real estate site about building around the airport that has more than enough problems as you sell off land around the GA airports for incompatible use as if Lindbergh has room to absorb GA:

Let's propose to build a pre-school around Miramar, against the Military's wishes and the land use commision!!!! Thumbs up brotha!!!!

http://clerkdoc.sannet.gov/RightSite....pdf?DMW_OBJECTID=09001451800d8fc9

Let's override the airport land use commission and build stuffs around Montgomery! We're geniuses on page 6!!!!

http://clerkdoc.sannet.gov/legtrain/Minutes/1993/min19930803

Let's build even more homes around Lindbergh!!! Yeah!!!!!!!!!

http://www.sandiego.gov/planning/pro...s/transportation/pdf/alucpatta.pdf

Ah hell... What do airports and airport land use comissions know about safety, noise contours and compatible development??? We're into real estate! Lets just toss that out the window. What do ya say????

http://www.sandiego.gov/planning/pro...s/transportation/pdf/alucpattb.pdf

Ah hell... Lets screw up Lindbergh and Miramar and see how that works! HELL YEAH!!!!

http://www.sandiego.gov/planning/pro...ransportation/pdf/alucpattcpt1.pdf

We can build around GA too!!!! YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw!!!

http://www.sandiego.gov/planning/pro...ransportation/pdf/alucpattcpt2.pdf

Flipping idiots. The City even approved homes around Brown Field with the assumption the runway could be "adjusted"... as in made shorter to kill of jet traffic like they did at Montgomery. That whole situation is just bullcrap. But hey... Don't back Miramar either... Or closing MCRD for gate space and better road access. Everything will be just fine as long as we and the Navy can work out a sweetheart deal for the Broadway Complex and NTC

And I wonder why I left San Diego... Christ! At the rate the City of San Diego is going, I hope walking shoes get comfortable. The rail service sucks, the bus schedule blows, the airport is F'd, the freeways are jammed, and your on the edge of losing a pro football team. Bravo! Nice city planning!!! Nice future!!!! NO VISION!

[Edited 2006-06-02 19:51:30]
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:25 am

Most people looking for a home with a view look for nice trees or a lake or something natural. When my family decided to build a house, the lot was decided upon because of its view of the airport. As an aviation family, we love being able to see the airport.
 
Catflap
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:55 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:28 am

Personally, I'm fed up with the idiots who live in Ivory Control Towers and think that rules which apply to the rest of society don't apply to them. Noise is a pollutant. It damages the health of those who are subjected to it. The more research that is done, the more evidence emerges that this is the case. Noise controls are now routinely applied to all industries. However, for years the aviation industry has been allowed to slip through loopholes left for them in the various pieces of legislation. Many of these loopholes were left at the industry's behest for a plethora of spurious safety reasons.
Needless to say, the aviation industry selfishly took full advantage of the loopholes to continue using ancient crates registered in every dark corner of the globe, and to continue operating without proper reagrd for their neighbours. The loopholes have simply allowed the aviation industry to avoid modernizing their fleets, to continue using outdated technology and to go down in the public's estimation. You come on a web-site like this one and it's like stepping into some parallel universe, populated by a load of self-righteous pillocks, who don't seem to realize that there is a world beyond the perimeter fence. It's high time the loopholes were closed and the aviation industry was made to live by the same rules as the society they purport to serve.
It isn't all bad news. If tight noise controls are imposed, technology will be applied to meet those standards. Investment and improvement will become the order of the day. You'll all look back and wonder how you ever thought that what you were doing was reasonable.
I have no doubt that the backward luddites will attack me for this posting. In any walk of life there are those who are afraid of technological progress and would prefer to live in a non-existent golden age from some time in their distant youth. In my opinion those who enjoy high levels of noise and other pollution should go and live in a country where those things are allowed.
The bottom line is that the environment is now well and truly on the political map and it's not going away. If you think that hurling venom at your critics is going to help, you should, perhaps think about a different job. The aviation industry is a major polluter. The way forward is to acknowledge the problem and begin to address it. Those who think they can fight the collective will of society will undoubtedly damage the very industry they claim to love.
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:31 am

Wow, Catflap, how did you end up on a site like A.Net? In most cases, the airport was there first! In cases where it was not, it needs to be addressed. However, if the airport was there first, the people moving in around it just need to keep their mouths shut.
 
dalneighbor
Posts: 589
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:04 pm

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:53 am

It's one thing for residents to complain about noise after moving next to an airport, but I can top all of you. How about an airline that starts service at an airport and then spends $1.5 million to creat an organization to complain about the noise created by the very same airline. Don't think its real, check it out: http://www.stop-and-think.org
Wright Amendment = Federally Engineered AA Price Gouging
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:59 am

Quoting Catflap (Reply 31):
Personally, I'm fed up with the idiots who live in Ivory Control Towers and think that rules which apply to the rest of society don't apply to them. Noise is a pollutant. It damages the health of those who are subjected to it. The more research that is done, the more evidence emerges that this is the case. Noise controls are now routinely applied to all industries. However, for years the aviation industry has been allowed to slip through loopholes left for them in the various pieces of legislation. Many of these loopholes were left at the industry's behest for a plethora of spurious safety reasons.
Needless to say, the aviation industry selfishly took full advantage of the loopholes to continue using ancient crates registered in every dark corner of the globe, and to continue operating without proper reagrd for their neighbours. The loopholes have simply allowed the aviation industry to avoid modernizing their fleets, to continue using outdated technology and to go down in the public's estimation. You come on a web-site like this one and it's like stepping into some parallel universe, populated by a load of self-righteous pillocks, who don't seem to realize that there is a world beyond the perimeter fence. It's high time the loopholes were closed and the aviation industry was made to live by the same rules as the society they purport to serve.
It isn't all bad news. If tight noise controls are imposed, technology will be applied to meet those standards. Investment and improvement will become the order of the day. You'll all look back and wonder how you ever thought that what you were doing was reasonable.
I have no doubt that the backward luddites will attack me for this posting. In any walk of life there are those who are afraid of technological progress and would prefer to live in a non-existent golden age from some time in their distant youth. In my opinion those who enjoy high levels of noise and other pollution should go and live in a country where those things are allowed.
The bottom line is that the environment is now well and truly on the political map and it's not going away. If you think that hurling venom at your critics is going to help, you should, perhaps think about a different job. The aviation industry is a major polluter. The way forward is to acknowledge the problem and begin to address it. Those who think they can fight the collective will of society will undoubtedly damage the very industry they claim to love.

When you say "loopholes", do you mean "loopholes", like the ones city planners use to circumvent airport land use plans that would have kept people away from such industrial sites? Because I don't know of any airport that snuck into a neighborhood, but I know a lot of city planners who thumbed their nose at airports and went ahead with incompatible projects around airports. And I know of at least two aircraft manufacturers, no make that seven, that are doing everything techically possible to make air travel more sustainable. What are you doing besides complain? Do like MJ... Get a mask, because we aren't going back to the horse and buggy.
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:32 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting DALNeighbor (Reply 33):
How about an airline that starts service at an airport and then spends $1.5 million to creat an organization to complain about the noise created by the very same airline.

That would have surprised me until I found it was AA complaining about DAL. Thanks for the link. Very interesting.
 
Catflap
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 1:55 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:33 am

A number of people seem to be stuck in the mind-set of saying that "the airport was there first." Of course, this is patently absurb. Airports are built to serve populations and so, most of the houses were there before the airport.

But this is all a bit irrelevant. Your argument would only hold water if the airport kept doing what it was doing when you moved into your house. You may well move in next to a small regional airport and you may think that the noise is perfectly acceptable. But when the airport expands to ten-times its original size, with flights all through the night, you may find the noise unbearable.

At the root of the problem is the planning system. If I build a factory I have to apply for permission to build it. If I then want to expand my factory I have to apply for permission again. If some of the people living near my factory object (and they are entitlted to do this if they think that the expanded factory will cause them harm or nuisance), I may not get permission to expand and I may have to build my expanded factory elsewhere. This is the way it works in the real world. You get permission to do something and, if you want to change what you are doing you have to ask again.

Airports are different. For years they have been allowed to expand without going back to ask for permission. Consequently, the degree of noise and nuisance they cause, expands way beyond anything that was ever envisaged when they were first put there.

For the person who said "Get a mask because we aren't going back to the horse and buggy" I would suggest a swift reality check. Oil prices will hit $180 before this year is out. They won't come back down again. The whole aviation industry is going to have to come to terms with a different world; a world in which air-travel, once again, becomes the preserve of the rich. A horse and buggy may be a very attractive option to walking.
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:32 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting Catflap (Reply 36):
Airports are built to serve populations and so, most of the houses were there before the airport.

ummh, not quite. In most places, the airport is built quite a distance from the population it is intended to serve. The population then grows toward the airport.
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Catflap (Reply 36):
A number of people seem to be stuck in the mind-set of saying that "the airport was there first." Of course, this is patently absurb.

In most countries, living near an airport is still voluntary behavior.

Tod

edit:spelling

[Edited 2006-06-02 22:03:34]

[Edited 2006-06-02 22:04:09]
 
scintx
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:00 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:47 am

Quoting Skymileman (Reply 37):
Quoting Catflap (Reply 36):
Airports are built to serve populations and so, most of the houses were there before the airport.

ummh, not quite. In most places, the airport is built quite a distance from the population it is intended to serve. The population then grows toward the airport.

Skymileman: You are most correct. Just go back and look at old photo's and they tell the story.
Attention All Planets of the Solar Federation....We have assumed control.....We have assumed control......
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting 777WT (Reply 2):
I had to sign a voluntary agreement

Not so voluntary if you had to sign it.  Wink

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I notice that since the late 60's people will move near a airport and then complain about the noise. I do not get people like that, why are going to move near airport if you can not take the noise.

It's not just airports. In Atlanta we have folks complaining about Chastain Park Ampitheatre. Never mind the fact it has been there since it was built during the WPA projects under FDR but oh well. I just want to shake the crap out of some of these folks...You knew the ampitheatre was there when you bought your million dollar house so quit your bitching! Same goes for airports.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 1):
When I lived out in Gwinnett County years ago, our house was right in the flight path of ATL and of Dobbins/NAS Atlanta.

I'm in Marietta and right under the NW departure path. 1 plane a minute usually at around 8-10,000 feet and the noise doesn't bother me one bit.

I'm just south of the Dobbins final approach from the SW so I get to see and hear plenty of very loud military birds at low altitude since I'm about a mile and a half from the edge of the field as the crow flies. It still doesn't bother me.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 1):
I was in heaven whenever a C-5 flew over.

They shake the crap out of my house as they fly by leaving Dobbins. They are so freaking slow that the sounds just continues to pound you for a while.

Nothing is worse than the F/A-18s out of NAS Atlanta screaming 200 feet above my house on full afterburner but I still don't care. I love to see and hear them.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
scintx
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:00 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 40):
Nothing is worse than the F/A-18s out of NAS Atlanta screaming 200 feet above my house on full afterburner but I still don't care. I love to see and hear them.

I hear you, I use to live in SAN and had to stop talking on the phone when F/18 flew out of Miramar, what a beautiful noise. I miss those days
Attention All Planets of the Solar Federation....We have assumed control.....We have assumed control......
 
fraspotter
Posts: 1972
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 7):
Look at DFW. When originally built, it was in the middle of nowhere. Look at it now. Businesses and homes are all sprouting around it.

LAS is the perfect example

Quoting Skymileman (Reply 37):
ummh, not quite. In most places, the airport is built quite a distance from the population it is intended to serve. The population then grows toward the airport.

LAS is the perfect example
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 29):

And I wonder why I left San Diego... Christ! At the rate the City of San Diego is going, I hope walking shoes get comfortable. The rail service sucks, the bus schedule blows, the airport is F'd, the freeways are jammed, and your on the edge of losing a pro football team. Bravo! Nice city planning!!! Nice future!!!! NO VISION!

mmmmmmm I know another city with lack of foresight just a little over 35 years ago. Now has some big problems, although it didn't necissarily deal with airport per say.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
I can sympathisize a bit with NIMBYs after spending 6 months living next to an airport used by the air national guard. At times the loud miltary jets were annoying. However it is something that you learn to live with.

I disagree. I grew up living exactly 4 miles off the runway end at Jacksonville International Airport, which also based the Florida Air Guard. I grew up hearing airplanes flying less than 1,000 feet over my house. Everything from DC-10's and 767's to F-16's and Cessna's. Of course, being me, I didn't mind it at all, even though it would be hard to watch my cartoons during the weekends when a flight of 4 F-16's would take off with afterburner at 8am, flying so low over the house that the windows would shake and it would drown out the TV even at the loudest volume setting. But I didn't mind it because the airport was there before my parents built our house there. If we had anyone to blame, it was ourselves. If anyone had reason to complain, it was my grandmother, who lived across a pasture next door and had been there for a decade before the airport was ever built on that side of town. Yet, being that my family has always been involved with aviation, both civil and military, we all welcomed it.

I like to challenge anyone who complains about airport noise to move if they don't like it. Unless you were there before the airport was(and few have been), you have no right to complain, plain and simple. These people chose to live there, they can choose to move or suck it up.


If anyone is sick and tired of all those NIMBY's out there shutting down your airports, join the fight. General aviation airports close at the rate of something like 10 a year, and once they go away, they are gone forever. You don't see people "creating" airports these days. Buy a copy of the movie One Six Right if you want proof. It is a movie of Van Nuys Airport and how important GA airports are, but it does show the side of the NIMBY's there wanting it gone. Buy the movie and you will be sick of the NIMBY's also, not to mention the movie has EXCELLENT aviation footage. Join AOPA and assist in the fight to keep airports open and not let them cave to the wishes of idiots who choose to live near airports and want their own wishes catered to.

Personally, anytime I'm flying, I fly as low and loud as I possibly can, although I don't know how much damage I will do in my trusty Cessna 172. I just love to piss off those idiots down there.

www.onesixright.com



OttoPylit

[Edited 2006-06-03 01:09:24]
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
scintx
Posts: 252
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:00 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 44):

OttoPylit that was very well stated. I could not have said that better myself. Welcome to my respected users list because you earned it.
Attention All Planets of the Solar Federation....We have assumed control.....We have assumed control......
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Catflap (Reply 36):
A number of people seem to be stuck in the mind-set of saying that "the airport was there first." Of course, this is patently absurb. Airports are built to serve populations and so, most of the houses were there before the airport.

This is simply not true. Most airports were built fare from the cities with only a few villages. During the years people often bought cheap land near the airports and built houses and now complain about noise.
 
D L X
Posts: 11657
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:31 am

These people should have to pay a special tax for their having the privilege of living next to an airport.
 
User avatar
EK413
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People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:54 am

ZRH

The best, easiest, most efficient and safest way to handle the incoming traffic at ZRH is landing from north on the runways 14 and 16. This was done about 40 years. The flight paths go over German territory (about 14 miles before the runway you are over Switzerland, river Rhine). A few years ago the German villages north of the Swiss boarder complained in Berlin that there is too much noise and ZRH should not anymore be allowed to have landings from the north in early morning, evening and on Sundays. So Berlin decided to make such regulations. The landing procedures in Zurich became very difficult because they were forced to land at these times from south over a very densely populated region (more than 1 mi people). Actually in the north, in Germany and Switzerland there are not many people, no big cities and they are used to it since 40 years. I have been in the closest German village to the airport, Hohentengen, which is right under the path. The complain about the noise is ridiculous. The aircrafts are still quite high and not louder than a motorcycle on the street.
Important thing to add: the Germans complained that it would be not fair that they had the most noise of Zurich airport. This is absolutely against the facts. They have the landing noise (only till 14 miles before the r/w, where the planes are still quite high). But all the take-off noise, which is much louder, is in the west and south of the airport, completely over Swiss territory.


Cheers Big grin
Thankyou for the handy information on the strange procedures at Zurich which I now understand.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
JohnJ
Posts: 1362
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

People Who Live Around Airports And Complain

Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:17 pm

I was at Constitution Beach, Boston photographing BOS operations a couple of weeks ago. I've heard that local residents are sketchy about photogs, and when a woman approached me and asked me what I was doing I was a bit defensive. She seemed disappointed when I told her I was an aviation enthusiast, and told me she thought I was from the media taking pictures for an article on the noise pollution problem at BOS. I asked her if the noise was a problem, and she said it was horrible - almost unliveable. Hmmm. I suspect Logan Airport was there long before she was even born. Why, why did she buy a home there when she knew full well the airport was there?

On the flip side, I'm from Memphis originally, home of the busiest airport in the world after midnight. My parents' house was about 8 miles from Memphis International Airport, and around about 3 or 4 in the morning if the takeoffs were to the north, it was pretty loud. I can remember teaching my girlfriend (now my wife) the difference in sound between a 727 and a DC-10 late one night during a visit home from college. The entire city gets a pretty good blast of FedEx noise in the wee hours of the morning, but I can't recall ever hearing about any noise complaints, even from my parents. Don't bite the hand that feeds you... FedEx employs about 30,000 people in the Memphis area.

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