md90fan
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Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:19 pm

Can Bahamasair (UP) make a profit?

That is a question in the mind of many Bahamians and aviation analysts alike these days. Last year UP brought losses down from 13 million USD to 7 million USD from over 30 million USD the previous years.

Bahamasair is struck with a dare I say greedy workforce, and old, inefficient fleet. Bahamasair's workforce nearly went on strike recently, which could have crippled UP's vital family island-big city links. Another contributing factor is the overstaffing and the older employees. Politics also play a role in this, as in the Bahamas if one had a hook up with a relative in the government/politics then you have job at UP  wink 

Another major issue is the fleet. UP has a fleet of 3(was 4, but they dropped one) Boeing 737-200. They have a average age of 25 years!!! Also UP has 7/8 (numbers vary) Bombardier DASH-8 300 with a average age. UP likes the aircraft alot and was the launch customer for them back in the day. There also have been unconfirmed reports from the Bahamas that UP is going to pick up x10 Saab 340's  confused 

UP is understood to be pursuing replacements for their ageing 732 fleet. With the Embraer E-jets looking to be the favored canidate (against A32S, 737NG, used Fokkers, 737Classics).

UP flies to a plethora of Bahamian destinations, although some are being outsourced. Alot of new competition has arisen in the domestic market here, with Western Air, Pineapple Air, Le-Air and many more smaller ones eating away at UP's niche. Up also flies to MIA, FLL, MCO, PBI, PLS, HAV, SDQ, KIN and LGI-FLL, MHH-FLL and FPO-FLL.

NOW what would you guys do to make UP profitable? More expansion?, if so where? Newer planes? Older planes? New management?

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stirling
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:38 pm

I think you already answered your own question.
The government needs to remove itself from the ownership role....but when that many jobs are at stake....in a small nation such as the Bahamas, well that isn't an easy job.

So, after that, get rid of the 732s! According to the latest information I have, the longest routes they have are to Kingston and Santo Domingo.

Both routes are less than 600nm, and within range of the Dash-8-300.

The same for coastal Florida...nothing worse than shooting the 732 on a route of less than 200nm!

Make Bahamasair an all Dash airline, maybe look into some Q400s...with the money they save in fuel, they could add frequency to replace the lost capacity of the 732.

Other than that....I have no idea. I've watched UP on and off over the years....sad with such a built-in, ready market, they still have problems...they should be swimming in profit year in and year out. Far as I can tell, the Bahamas remain a popular getaway for South Floridians....and I am seeing more and more people out here on the west coast going to the Bahamas. (That is not to say I think UP should stretch their wings, hardly, only brought up the point to illustrate the popularity of the place.)
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fpofllflyboi
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Thread starter):
Another major issue is the fleet. UP has a fleet of 3(was 4, but they dropped one) Boeing 737-200. They have a average age of 25 years!!! Also UP has 7/8 (numbers vary) Bombardier DASH-8 300 with a average age. UP likes the aircraft alot and was the launch customer for them back in the day. There also have been unconfirmed reports from the Bahamas that UP is going to pick up x10 Saab 340's

I was of the impression the Dash's served them well for the short haul flights. If they do take the Saab's it will be more expense for training on a completely new aircraft. Maybe it will be worth it. What about upgrading or trading the old 300's for the Q400's?

Quoting MD90fan (Thread starter):
UP is understood to be pursuing replacements for their ageing 732 fleet. With the Embraer E-jets looking to be the favored canidate (against A32S, 737NG, used Fokkers, 737Classics).

The E-jets would be ideal perhaps the 195's in full economy class and they could convert and keep one of the 732's and a Dash to a combi for cargo and repatriation excercises.

As far as routes, they could pick up all the routes that Laker Bahamas had from FPO to MSY, CLE, CVG, RIC, FLL, DFW (short lived) and add some others like IAD or DCA, DTW or even MDW and ISP. With good advertising from the Ministry of Tourism in conjunction with the hotels it could be worth it.

The staffing issue is something I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft pole, but anyways, I would offer the older employees a package, cut more losses and start with a clean slate no union involved. Privatisation wont even need to be an option if managed by people with new and innovative ways of thinking truly interested in turning a profit.

Das my $0.02cents
 
fpofllflyboi
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 1):
Make Bahamasair an all Dash airline, maybe look into some Q400s...with the money they save in fuel, they could add frequency to replace the lost capacity of the 732.

While I agree with you in part, for some reason the idea of having 1 or 2 jets in your fleet is a good thing, especially when UP gets good use of their 732's for charter service. People just like jets.  Big grin
 
stirling
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:52 pm

Well then, that is ok. They can keep them for charter work, but remove them from scheduled service, unless they are to be used for something like you mentioned of filling some of the old Laker routes to the US Midwest and Great Lakes region.
The 732 is just way too inefficient for the short hops UP uses them on.
They got to keep them in the air for at least 750nm, 1000nm would be perfect. 1250nm ideal, and about the limit of the 732.

Nassau Range Map
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DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:05 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
The 732 is just way too inefficient for the short hops

Aloha doesn't seem to think so. They just acquired some more -200's for their island hops as they said nothing really beats them for efficiency and dispatch reliability around the islands. I would imagine the same would be true for the Bahamas and UP.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:00 pm

I see it this way, Bahamasair can not afford to do a major fleet change right now. But they do need to do something and begin some sort of expansion to more open areas. I also think that they need the right size aircraft for their operations, so they need 2 distinct seating ranges.. 30-50 seater and 90-110 seater. Nothing more.. Nothing less. So there are not that many choices in those areas.. either the (Dash-8, ATR-42, Saab, CRJ, or ERJ) or the (DC9, F100, E190, 732, 736, 318).

So final choice? Get more Dash-8 300. Replace their old 732 with newer and more 732/733. I would say a fleet of 20+ would do good (~10 Dash and 10+ 732/733).

When profit or finances get available.. Keep about 12 Dash-8, switch over to 8 Embraer 170 and 10 Embraer 195 aircraft. Keep about 5 732 for Freighter service to MIA, NYC, and BWI.

Just my thought
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MAH4546
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:03 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
When profit or finances get available.. Keep about 12 Dash-8, switch over to 8 Embraer 170 and 10 Embraer 195 aircraft. Keep about 5 732 for Freighter service to MIA, NYC, and BWI.

They need the cargo capacity of the 737s not just for cargo, but for passenger's luggage, especially on the MIA/FLL routes.

I don't think it is a good idea for Bahamasair to expand past Florida in the US. They've tried it before to poor results.
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ERJ170
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:13 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
I don't think it is a good idea for Bahamasair to expand past Florida in the US. They've tried it before to poor results.

I can't believe any airline being unable to make NYC work. Just with the sheer number of people, they would have to be able to fill up one aircraft with soem profitability. But at least a 732 would have to be used for NYC due to luggage and cargo volume. But I think other locations in the US would not be as much luggage as SoFlorida and NYC because those places are usually "visitors" and not "locals". The Bahamas has got to be one of the more popular US destinations. They should be able to pick up traffic from a lot of places.. I know you say they have tried before, but they should try again. This is a new day, airline traffic is growing, people are traveling, and you never know what will work or fail until you put yourself out there.. Give a station 3-4 months to succeed. I agree they should consider some of Laker Airways old haunts. I realize they were backed through resorts, but Bahamasair could do some of that too.. It could probably help them get some financing to upgrade some aircraft..

just another thought..
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MAH4546
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:32 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 8):
The Bahamas has got to be one of the more popular US destinations. They should be able to pick up traffic from a lot of places.

That is the problem and also why many Caribbean airlines have been unsuccessful are in financial trouble. American tourists stick to American airlines. With the exception of airJamaica, Caribbean airlines have not been able to make a name for themselves in the US, and they don't even pop up in people's minds. Bahamsair relies heavily on Bahamian-originating traffic, which is heavy throughout Florida, but not much where else. Cayman Airways is able to survive in large part thanks to a very wealthy local population base that strongly supports the airline, while BWIA, like Bahamsair, relies largely on island-originating traffic, though with a much large West Indian community than Bahamian, they have a wider base of places to fly too.

Bahamsair would be killed by US, CO, B6, and DL on an already over-crowded NYC-Nassau market.
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par13del
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:43 pm

Reality check here.
1. UP went to an all Dash-8 fleet prior to 1992, the Govt. change bought
the jets back.
2. No one in UP wanted the Dash-8 ( engineers, tech's etc. ) the ATR
was favoured in all engineering, route studies etc. The Dash-8 was
a political buy, Commission of Inquiry proved that.
3. As mentioned by a previous post, UP needs cargo capacity on the
Mia / FLL route, either with a jet or dedicated cargo aircraft
4. Major event in Bahamas aviation was the switch from the British
C6 registrating to the US FAA. If UP is capitalized properly,
they can more modern B-737's much cheaper from the US

The Bahamas is a nation of many islands, and bridges are not an option, its air and sea. UP has to operate the majority of its domestic flights during the official daylight hours, which either means high utility or more a/c, so far the Dash-8 has had issues, quite possible because the govt. does not stock enough parts. Upgrade the country infrastructure - airports with lights - and the could do much more with less a/c and be profitable domestically as well, even with political mandates.
International, modern B-737 would work, they are good for short haul and carry a fair load, bridge the Florida market and code share with other carrier's. Bear in mind that local traffic and their "excess baggage" are huge money makers for UP, check out the pax lines in Mia / FLL, we birng every thing but the kitchen sink, oops, we bring that too.
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ERJ170
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:45 pm

So what would be the tactics they should employ to get better name recognition? advertising? new fleet? it's got to be something because in my mind, I don't see how they can't be expanding something similar to Air Canada, Mexicana, or even jetBlue..
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par13del
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:23 pm

Well they passed up that oppertunity years ago. When airbus offered A300's to Eastern Airlines they did the same to UP, we all know who took up the offer.
UP needs capital, which if one considers what they have wasted won't be coming anytime soon.

Privitization will produce a much smaller and focused carrier, say one or two routes. Its interesting, that in the late 80's when a private Bahaminan airline was started with Md-80's the govt. ensured that they failed so as not to compete with UP, now the trend is reversed.

Tourism is the life blood of the nation, and airtravel is huge, a local carrier does not have to compete with every route flown into the Bahamas, what they do need is at least one gateway to maintain a link in case US carriers pull out, Florida is one, local traffic will ensure that it won't fail. The charter business was doing pretty well in the 80's if memory serve's, they added to a/c utilization without all the cost of actually running the route in regular service.
 
stirling
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:54 pm

Then if they prefer the ATR...they should have those.
My point was based more on turboprop versus jets, rather than on the specific attributes of the Dash-8-300.

The difference between Bahamasair and Aloha is utilization. Aloha probably has 8-11 hours a day utilization per aircraft.
Volume.
They fly it so much, and carry so many people, it negates the negative aspects. It would be much different if Bahamasair was doing an airbridge type operation between NAS and FLL/MIA/PBI....12-15 roundtrips per day, every day....they can't, because there is already so much competition on those routes.

Bottom line is that there is no easy solution to the woes of Bahamasair.
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fpofllflyboi
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):
So what would be the tactics they should employ to get better name recognition? advertising? new fleet? it's got to be something because in my mind, I don't see how they can't be expanding something similar to Air Canada, Mexicana, or even jetBlue..

They need to employ all of those tactics in addition to capitalising on Atlantis being in Nassau. They could send scouts to cities on the east coast and mid-west. Perhaps they could even paint one of the 732's in a livery promoting Atlantis, its all about branding and putting yourself out there.


Laker was doing pretty ok on those Freeport runs but could have had more reliable aircraft. There wasn't a week in which one of their 2 727's had mechanical problems.
 
fpofllflyboi
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting Par13del (Reply 12):
Its interesting, that in the late 80's when a private Bahaminan airline was started with Md-80's the govt. ensured that they failed so as not to compete with UP, now the trend is reversed.

I remember Trinity Bahamas, everyone had such high hopes especially during a time when Bahamasair couldn't care less about anything related to the industry. They became too complacent and figured "People will fly with us regardless". Would be nice to see them back with a contract for the hotels.
 
md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:20 pm

Im suprised nobody mentioned Haiti flights. The Bahamas has about 300k people, and an estimated 40-75l of those are Haitian/Haitian-Bahamian. So flights to PAP/CAP/PAX could work. Before the whole crazy Haitian uprising UP flew to PAP with DASH-8's

Quoting Stirling (Reply 1):
So, after that, get rid of the 732s!

Yeah, we are tired of those old hangar queens  wink 

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 3):
While I agree with you in part, for some reason the idea of having 1 or 2 jets in your fleet is a good thing, especially when UP gets good use of their 732's for charter service. People just like jets.

Yes, they do. Although people in the Caribbean are a little bit more accustomed to props, there still are some people who are picky.

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 5):
Aloha doesn't seem to think so. They just acquired some more -200's for their island hops as they said nothing really beats them for efficiency and dispatch reliability around the islands. I would imagine the same would be true for the Bahamas and UP.

AQ does, so does DL use them for short hops..

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 6):
Keep about 5 732 for Freighter service to MIA, NYC, and BWI.

full 732 service for NYC, BWI? Idk about that one ERJ170, I can see MIA/FLL though. I was thinking about 732F running intra bahamas routes, to replace mailboats on some routes. Also to provide on-demand service  Smile

Quoting Par13del (Reply 10):
No one in UP wanted the Dash-8 ( engineers, tech's etc. ) the ATR
was favoured in all engineering, route studies etc. The Dash-8 was
a political buy, Commission of Inquiry proved that.

Yes, UP actually wanted the Fokker 50..but there was some corruption/bribery and Boeing ended up being sued.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):
So what would be the tactics they should employ to get better name recognition? advertising? new fleet? it's got to be something because in my mind, I don't see how they can't be expanding something similar to Air Canada, Mexicana, or even jetBlue..

Well unfortunently any expansion would be halted by the lack of funds. UP is always burrowing/taking money from the Bahamian treasury. Although IIRC Embraer said they would deliver some E-70/90/95 with no money down, because of the Bahamas's superb global outlook rating  Smile

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DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 5):
Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
The 732 is just way too inefficient for the short hops

Aloha doesn't seem to think so. They just acquired some more -200's for their island hops as they said nothing really beats them for efficiency and dispatch reliability around the islands. I would imagine the same would be true for the Bahamas and UP.



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 16):
AQ does, so does DL use them for short hops..

What point are you trying to make here? I already indicated that AQ is happy with their 737-200's.
 
md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 17):
What point are you trying to make here? I already indicated that AQ is happy with their 737-200's.

Nothing, no worries man I just wanted to put that on there  Smile
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b6sea
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:43 am

Yeah, I agree. There's no way that UP could ever get rid of the Boeings. That's the thing with airlines flying to the Caribbean region, they have to have enough room for cargo. The people rely on the airlines to go to the US and Canada for shopping trips. The Bahamas especially with FLL and MIA being so close.

I do think that UP should look into getting next gen 737s (736?) or possibly A318/9s. This would, however, only be possible if they had money to spend on shiny new planes.

I also agree with whoever said that the Bahamas needs to upgrade their airports. Most of the airports in the Bahamas are not up to standards and dont permit night landings due to lack of proper runway lighting. I would think that the Bahamian government would work on that seeing that they own the airline opperating flights to most of those airports. With that said, Bahamasair could make a killing on opening up new services to MIA/FLL/MCO/ATL/CLT? from some of the less known resort islands. The government of the Bahamas advertises heavily for destinations other than Nassau in the US but never tells you how to go about getting to them...

Bahamasair needs a comprehensive reform but most of all needs to be 1.) Privatized to let the free market decide its fate. 2.) Once privatized, the Bahamian government could set up a route subsidy system similar to the essential air services in the USA that would allow Bahamsair to fly routes that are necessary but not nearly profitable. 3.) ADVERTISE ADVERTISE ADVERTISE. In the USA, he who advertises the most wins. If they put uo an advertisement that showed something like Beautiful beaches/places and beautiful people at those places and then bahamasair.com at the end would probably go there to check it out if interested.

Just my 2 cents...
-Chans
 
md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 19):
Bahamasair could make a killing on opening up new services to MIA/FLL/MCO/ATL/CLT

Maybe with charters, but schedualed you can just keep dreaming  sarcastic 

Quoting B6sea (Reply 19):
I do think that UP should look into getting next gen 737s (736?) or possibly A318/9s

Not gonna happen unless UP starts NAS-LAX or NAS-SEA buddy, as there are too heavy..besides with the A319, UP basically said it has excess range  Smile

Quoting B6sea (Reply 19):
Privatized to let the free market decide its fate.

They tried to privatise it, but there has been no progress.

Quoting B6sea (Reply 19):
ADVERTISE ADVERTISE ADVERTISE

UP has a nice bit of advertising in So.Florida

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b6sea
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 20):
Maybe with charters, but schedualed you can just keep dreaming

True, they would probably need to start as charters or as subsidized routes. and I agree that it would be difficult. But with the right aircraft/frequencies/connections and proper advertising they could definately make a decent effort at it.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 20):
UP has a nice bit of advertising in So.Florida

South Florida isn't the only place where people vacation in the Bahamas, I've been to the Bahamas and I live in Seattle.

Another problem that I see with UP is that they are the anti-AS. They dont have enough codeshares/partners. Not enough connecting traffic. What if they partnered up with someone like AirTran or JetBlue? (just examples) If they had some more feed to their flights they might be able to make more money or attract customers who otherwise would have flown one of the legacies. I know they already have a codeshare with US, but I think that another airline would probably be a possibility.

Also, just to throw this out there, but what about UK flights with the 73G (the long range version) or a leased 752?
 
md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting B6sea (Reply 21):

I know, but come on why would a NAS-SEA flight be subsidized?? UP couldnt even fly there, besides if they were gonna fly charters to the West coast I would think LAX/LAS would have more potential.

As for codeshares, UP has a codeshare with US Airways(which you mentioned) and that is probably enough. And AirTran, they dont even fly to NAS.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...story/08-16-2004/0002232469&EDATE=

Quoting B6sea (Reply 21):
Also, just to throw this out there, but what about UK flights with the 73G (the long range version) or a leased 752?

No. UP has never flown long haul in its history. Why do it now when the Bahamas-UK market has not one, but 3 other carriers? (BA,VS,First Choice, Various charters)

And with a 73G or 752? That would have such nasty CASM/RASM/economics  yuck 

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MAH4546
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting B6sea (Reply 21):
Quoting MD90fan (Reply 20):
UP has a nice bit of advertising in So.Florida

South Florida isn't the only place where people vacation in the Bahamas, I've been to the Bahamas and I live in Seattle.

No, but with its close proximity, South Floridians account for a very significant percentage of traffic to the Bahamas, and go more often. Many South Floridians, myself included, go more than once a year for weekend trips.

Again, as I've mentioned, Bahamasair doesn't cater to tourists (and maybe they can do better if they did). They cater to Bahamians, living in Florida and the Bahamas.
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:08 pm

Bahamas Air should forget about the US and focus on Europe.

Bahamas is an exotic destination where VS and BA charge much much higher premiums to fly to compared to the US.

VS=£600 NAS compared to £400 to MIA

Considering there is not much on offer for Europe to Caribbean flights unless you connect via the US.. then yes there is a distinct market gap..

At the same time Europeans arnt too fussy about the airline's name or origins, it's price that matters. UP can compete on that alone !

A join to say Star Alliance or Sky Team would also see them well.

[Edited 2006-06-02 14:09:27]
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:21 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 24):
Bahamas Air should forget about the US and focus on Europe.

Hahahaha.. now that's funny.. I would assume that the US would be considered the "bread and butter" for Bahamasair and the EU is more like the jam they spread on.. that would be a horrific move because even though the US only charges ~$400 compared to $600 for EU, the US market travels to the Bahamas 5-10x more than the EU does. Crazy move.
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md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 25):
Hahahaha.. now that's funny.. I would assume that the US would be considered the "bread and butter" for Bahamasair and the EU is more like the jam they spread on.. that would be a horrific move because even though the US only charges ~$400 compared to $600 for EU, the US market travels to the Bahamas 5-10x more than the EU does. Crazy move.

Wow  sarcastic  now that would be a real good way to see UP disappear from the skies

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
Again, as I've mentioned, Bahamasair doesn't cater to tourists (and maybe they can do better if they did). They cater to Bahamians, living in Florida and the Bahamas.

Exactly, its been reported UP gets 88% percent of revenue from local routes that rely on O&D traffic.

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fpofllflyboi
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:19 am

The fact is that people will travel on any airline based on 2 key factors, ADVERTISING as stated by B6SEA and affordable pricing. These are and have always been the determining factors vacationers. JM is a fine example of what a strong marketing campain and branding can do to put an airline on the "map".

UP would and could be a whole better airline if they catered to tourists going after markets that could be profitable. It's like any business you have to try and see what works even if its seasonal.

As far as European flights, I won't totally agree/disagree UP operating them because I can remember years ago (80's) when the Bahamas was flooded with Europeans and Canadians even tho alot of them worked there.

[Edited 2006-06-03 17:27:52]
 
Flaps
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:26 am

As far as more advanced versions of the 737's go, the CFM56 has not proven itself to be particularly effective on very high frequency short halls. At one time AQ was running a number of 733's interisland. They returned to the 732 on these routes for this reason. Although the JT8 is less efficient than the CFM56, it is more durable and more reliable under these particular conditions. UP would face the same problem on the Florida routes.

I dont think you can just throw freighters in to sub for lost cargo capacity when replacing the 732 either. As stated a number of times above, the local Bahamian traffic carries a huge amount of baggage with them. This necessitates the ability to carry the baggage with the passenger (unless of course you want to fly a DC3 carrying overflow bags behind the the 170/190.

UP's number 1 problem is politics and political mismanagement. Fix this problem and much of the rest fixes itself. Not every market needs the latest and greatest in equipment. Bahamas-Florida and Hawiian Interisland are good examples.
 
md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:15 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 28):
As far as more advanced versions of the 737's go, the CFM56 has not proven itself to be particularly effective on very high frequency short halls. At one time AQ was running a number of 733's interisland. They returned to the 732 on these routes for this reason. Although the JT8 is less efficient than the CFM56, it is more durable and more reliable under these particular conditions. UP would face the same problem on the Florida routes.

Well yes and no. AQ IIRC ran 73G's on interisland hops but it did not help the aircraft had just arrived from the mainland. So the engines were still hot, etc.

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par13del
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:04 pm

Solutions for UP.
1. Govt. set up the airline again "legally" after a referendum or major political
push for capital funding. Legal docs ensuring that board is non-political
and Govt. is not on the board. No more Govt. complaints of
UP when it fails based on Govt. decisions see Haiti route
2. Captial investment to commence payback in 3 years. Can't burden them
with too much debt at the outset.
3. Initial small fleet, 2 B-737, 4 props 50 seat range 4 props 20-30 seat range
Run the jet on the Florida market, with only two, shorter time out of service
if one goes tech. Spread wings after showing profit.
4. No prorating of fares on international traffic into the family of islands.
IF a UK citizen pays 600 pounds into Eleuthera, how much would UP get,
considering the 6-9 hour London-Nas the 20min to Eleuthera on UP
If airline agreements won't allow, then set up a domestic only carrier
and do the WN business plan. Flat fees into the islands on code shares
5. Try to bridge a couple of the closer islands to New Providence, Eleuthera
has a thriving economy, and they also have a catamaran, so the smaller
a/c on that route with frequency.
6. For 5 above the lights on the islands will have to be added, radar system
already in place.

Just got back to this thread, so thinking still sort of slow.
 
md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting Par13del (Reply 30):
For 5 above the lights on the islands will have to be added, radar system
already in place.

UP has recently commenced for the first time, family island night flights. But yes, for most family island airports they need to be lit, have ILS, proper functioning radars,etc.
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fpofllflyboi
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 31):
UP has recently commenced for the first time, family island night flights. But yes, for most family island airports they need to be lit, have ILS, proper functioning radars,etc.

Although Freeport is not considered a Family island, I understand that it will soon be getting a Radar system probably after the new control tower is done with construction. Georgetown Exuma may also get a Radar system from what I know and MHH-Marsh Harbour is getting a total facelift with a 1000' extension to RWY 9/27 and a brand new terminal. Slowly but surely things are progressing in the family islands.
 
md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 32):
MHH-Marsh Harbour is getting a total facelift with a 1000' extension to RWY 9/27 and a brand new terminal

Yes, IIRC they are extending it over 6,000 feet so the 732 might be able to land there.

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 32):
Slowly but surely things are progressing in the family islands

I wonder what they want to do about Long Island...
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md90fan
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RE: Can Bahamasair Make A Profit?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:17 am

How much would one DASH-8 Q400 cost, as I am to lazy to look it up?

Thanks in advance  Smile
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