bhxdtw
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:22 pm

Hi Guys..

Just reading a few threads on the 757...

NWA is soon or hopefully deploying 75's to Europe..
US/DL has been rumoured to use them across the pond...
CO has made the type the workhorse of its european ops using them to open new thin routes, previously not served or unlikely to ever be served..
AA has also decided to operate the type to Europe, i.e NCL (before it was decided to pull the route)

With the new Winglets being installed on a lot of these carriers 757's will the 757 now see a new lease of life ?? Will the likes of BA ever use this same strategy to utilise their 757's on Longer range thin routes (i.e the old BHX-JFK/YYZ route) ??

It seems to be that after the 757 range was discontinued, all of a sudden a lot of US airlines are re-discovering the potential this plane can offer..

Your thoughts ??

(Also, whats the chances of the 767 receiving winglets ?? )

Joe
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:26 pm

I don't think the 767 will receive winglets...the -200 series is already too "old" to get them that it would not be economically viable. As for the -300 series, i could maybe see it but highly doubt it. And the -400 has raked wingtips if i am not mistaken (please correct me if i am wrong).

In terms of the "757 revival," I think airlines are using them to a much fuller extent than they used to. It saves fuel in some regards and not as costly to operate (less people on a 757 than a 767).
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Oykie
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:56 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
Your thoughts ??

I think you might be right. Even though IMO a 5000Nm 757 would open up even more routes. There was talks about a BBJ3 based on the 757 a few years back using extra fuel tanks. When Boeing closed the line of the 757 they got a hole in their product portfolio. The 737-900ER could do 90 % of the routes currently served by the 757.

From my understanding a 757Next generation a couple of years after the launch of the 737NG would see the 757 line continue.

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
(Also, whats the chances of the 767 receiving winglets ?? )

Would the raked wingtips be a better option for the 767?

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 1):
And the -400 has raked wingtips if i am not mistaken (please correct me if i am wrong).

Correct. Wold it cost much money to retrofit the -300ER with those raked wingtip developed for the -400ER?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
bhxdtw
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 2):
There was talks about a BBJ3 based on the 757 a few years back using extra fuel tanks. When Boeing closed the line of the 757 they got a hole in their product portfolio. The 737-900ER could do 90 % of the routes currently served by the 757

There is already a lot of 757 privat e jets around, I dount Boeing would start a BBJ3 now... tho I could be wrong..

Im hoping BA will use their 757's accross the pond again one day....

Tho I dont think they have too many left ? most went to DHL I think ?
 
n801dm
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:50 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:03 am

Several of the privately operated 757's have aux fuel tanks in them increasing the range to around 6000 nm. It is a very impressive mod unfortunately with this mod you sacrifice payload.

Regards,


N801DM
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:32 am

Its a very interesting situation........in recent years, actually since the 757 family was discontinued, the type is having a renaissance and now is being used in different roles. As you pointed out, the 757 is suddenly a workhorse accross the Atlantic.

The 757 is now simply being used differently than in the past...for several reasons:

1. Aircraft like the 738 and A320 have taken over many of the routes once flown by the 757, such as transcons and high demand NYC-Florida services. Why? the new types better match seats and demand and allow for increased frequency on routes.

2. Legacy carriers are looking to longer haul and inteational routes as a way to increase revenue.

3. Widebody aircraft are expensive and in short supply at the legacy carriers....we all know about CO, but DL, UA, NW, AA all have the same problems.....all have cut back on their widebody deliveries, and/or have returned aircraft pursuant to re-organization, and/or have retired older ineffecient aircraft and did not replace them.

Thus, the airlines have 757s in their fleet, they were available to open up some of these new routes, and off they went. The strange thing is that no airline was interested in ordering more 757s and that would probably still be the case; the only exception is the 753, the undiscovered money machine that did not get the attention it deserved....the men and women at CO and NW would like to have more of the type and the 753 would have been very useful for DL on ATL-FLorida routes and to AA on MIA-Caribbean services, but the opportunity was missed.
 
HAM
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:03 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:41 am

Dutchjet,
nice summary of the issue.
i was also wondering about those 757s, especially after CO started flying them to my hometown.
 
HAM
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:03 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:46 am

i don´t see any wingtips on the 767-400...


[Edited 2006-06-01 20:49:43]

for some reason the image doesn´t show up, sorry. but can anyone point out where those raked wingtips are supposed to be?

[Edited 2006-06-01 20:53:34]
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2382
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting HAM (Reply 7):
i don´t see any wingtips on the 767-400...

You mean 'winglets'...

Every wing has a wingtip....  smile 
 
HAM
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:03 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:54 am

Gr8Circle, you´re right. but what is raked then on that aircraft´s wing?
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:00 am


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Gaddis - Spot This!




Look at the triangular tips of the wings. Raked winglets are flat with a slight dihedral instead of the conventional blended winglets.

[Edited 2006-06-01 21:05:06]
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3363
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 3):
Im hoping BA will use their 757's accross the pond again one day....

Tho I dont think they have too many left ? most went to DHL I think ?

The B757 that went to DHL all had RB211-535C engines. This engine is not ETOPS approved. BA still has 13 B757, all with RB211-535E which could be ETOPS, but are not presently maintained as such.
The aircraft that used to operate GLA-JFK was PEC and this aircraft is still in service and still has all the long haul galleys and toilets fitted, and old world traveller economy seats in the rear cabin.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12390
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:16 am

Just being used better, they are being repositioned in their use. With the 737-800 & 900 (and soon the 900ER), along with the A-320, that covers a lot of transcon USA and long distance overland routes that the 757-200 was and still good at, but probably with slightly better ops costs. Thus 757's can be shifted to use in locations where they have an advantage over the 737 like high altitude (DEN), high temps (PHX) or where the range of the 757 is better. They can also be changed around a bit for modest distance trans-atlantic ops (but sometimes requiring a fuel stop westbound as to -200's). The 757 is also a workhorse of the charter operators, especially in Europe.
 
Oykie
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting N801DM (Reply 4):
Several of the privately operated 757's have aux fuel tanks in them increasing the range to around 6000 nm. It is a very impressive mod unfortunately with this mod you sacrifice payload.

Regards,


N801DM

Thank you. I was not aware that the 757 was certified with aux fuel tanks. Do you know how many needed for that long range? The BBJ3 Boeing offered where to have 4500Nm range and I believe 3 tanks.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
boo25
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:03 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:41 am

BA this very month are removing all existing IFE from its 757's - not sure if they are EROPS/ETOPS rated anyhow.......

I think BA are biding their time with the 757s, they just slot in where needed, and will stay at LHR too....

BA want to get the pension crisis sorted and then order new a/c - supposedly the older A320s to be replaced first, followed by Longhaul replacements and later on 757/767 - they used to play a huge part , but are now sidelined by endless Airbus / 777's .....................
 
avroarrow
Posts: 804
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2001 10:40 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:00 am

In my opinion it would seem that the 757 is now being used in a role that the 787 was created to fulfill. Perhaps the Boeing marketing for the 787 got traditional carriers thinking about the way they used their existing 757 fleets?
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5155
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:29 am

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 15):
Perhaps the Boeing marketing for the 787 got traditional carriers thinking about the way they used their existing 757 fleets?

Well, I think that it's a couple of things.

First, CO proved -- contrary to what all the "experts" said -- that non-holidaymakers will take a 757 across the Pond, especially if it gets them nonstop to their destination or to an airport closer thereto. This really opened up the eyes of their competitors.

Second, the majors couldn't ignore CO's success in diversifying its revenue base with international flights. While B6 is cutting back dramatically on its long-haul domestic flights, folks like CO are getting substantially higher revenue per available seat mile on more-similar-than-not stage lengths by going international. (It was ingenious for B6 to go to BDA, for example. It's a shorter stage length than many Florida destinations, and $250 each way used to be considered a low fare.) DL recently put out some stats on their international expansion, and there's no doubting the yield bonus that they're getting. How do you do International on-the-cheap with minimal additional capital investment? Break out the 757s (among other things, like stop using 767-400ERs in a high-density configuration to fly ATL-MCO).
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
US/DL has been rumoured to use them across the pond

US will use them on PHL-LIS later this year.

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
AA has also decided to operate the type to Europe

AA also operates 757's on BOS-MAN.

Best Regards,
MD90fan  wave 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2001 2:42 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:51 am

Quoting N801DM (Reply 4):

Nice use of the N#.  Wink

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 13):
The BBJ3 Boeing offered where to have 4500Nm range and I believe 3 tanks.

I think you are thinking of the studied 757-200ER which was to have three aux tanks and fly 4,500 nm with a full passenger load. Actually, I don't know how many tanks were to be used, but early on, Boeing claimed a range of over 7,000nm for the 752 based BBJ3, and I believe that was calculated without winglets. Now that would have been sweeeeet!!
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
n801dm
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:50 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 13):
Do you know how many needed for that long range? The BBJ3 Boeing offered where to have 4500Nm range and I believe 3 tanks.

There is a 8 tank system on all of the privately owned 757's with aux tanks the US government 757's (C-32) have a 4 tank system.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 18):
Nice use of the N#.

Thanks Boeing Nut! Love working on the jet everyday!

Best regards and Go Mavs!

N801DM
Big version: Width: 3000 Height: 2250 File size: 451kb
 
PGV
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:08 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:44 am

Didn't US recently get a few ex-ATA 757s?
"To hell with a Ferrari...give me a Super 70!"
 
lredlefsen
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:50 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:42 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
... deploying 75's to Europe ...



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 12):
... the 737-800 & 900 (and soon the 900ER), along with the A-320, [ ... ] covers a lot of transcon USA ...

Sorry to be a wet blanked here (hah!), but having been a passenger on transcon 737 flights, I feel compelled to say that these machines were never meant to provide comfortable long-range service (eg SFO-EWR).

They were built with the assumption that a small percentage of pax would use the lavs -- which is reasonable on a 1-2 hour flight -- but on a 5-hour transcon, that assumption is no longer true. It seems that there is *always* a line at the lavs, which can really make the flight uncomfortable, especially with the new "post 9/11 security rules".

I can imagine that Transatlantic 757 flights must be similar.

I have basically stopped booking flights on transcon "slaveships" for that reason.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5155
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting Lredlefsen (Reply 21):
They were built with the assumption that a small percentage of pax would use the lavs

Well...wrong. They may have been *configured* like that, but configurations can be changed, and different airlines used different configurations. It's really not correct to assume that you'll have to wait to pee on any particular aircraft; it all depends upon how that airline has equipped that ship.
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:25 pm

Quoting Pgv (Reply 20):
Didn't US recently get a few ex-ATA 757s?

Yes, IIRC the last 3 that were stored at MUC
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
lredlefsen
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:50 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:33 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 22):
They may have been *configured* like that

I stand corrected. I was talking specifically about CO flights from SFO to EWR and back. I admit that's a small sample set, so I retract my broad, sweeping statement.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6580
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:39 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 3):
Im hoping BA will use their 757's accross the pond again one day....

BA used the 757 on the BHX-JFK route in the mid 1990's

Quoting BHXDTW (Thread starter):
Your thoughts ??

When the 757 was designed, it was mainly designed for the high density, short/medium range hub to hub routes. When US carriers ordered them, they were mainly deployed on transcon, and mid-con flights. In the waning years of it's production, Boeing started to push the issue of using them on longer-range routes, such as the long-thin transatlantic routes.Airlines pu them into markets where they couldn't sell out a 767/DC10/TriStar more than 70 percent of the time. The 757 was a good fit for selling more seats. Unfortunately, passengers don't like it, but since they aren't willing to pay more that $250 to and from Europe, they're limited on what they can choose. I believe this was a long-time coming. Science and trade friendly regulations has given the 757 a new lease on life without being casually relagated to a frieghter-only role.
Made from jets!
 
User avatar
zippyjet
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:02 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fred Seggie - WorldAirImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David James Clelford

A great bird looks even spiffier with winglets! airplane 
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:09 pm

OIL PRICES....

They cause airlines to shrink the aircraft they use if AT ALL possible. This makes yesterday's 767 routes into today's 757 routes. Ditto with the 757 and 737. And why use a big 777 when a 767-300 will do?

Airlines are sucking the maximum out of EVERY aircraft type. With the 757 it's so dramatic because in the old days, the 757 was a good economic short range airplane. Not anymore... it is confined to mid-haul flights of 1500-4000 mi because that's where it is fuel efficient.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
NWDC10
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:15 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:18 pm

Sad not seeing many 747's cross the Atlantic Ocean much anymore like the good ol days. Robert NWDC10
 
bhxdtw
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:06 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 25):
Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 3):
Im hoping BA will use their 757's accross the pond again one day....

BA used the 757 on the BHX-JFK route in the mid 1990's

Yeah I know, I took this route many times whilst I was growing up, at one point it did an extension up to YYZ from JFK....
It was always nice to see the 757 at the Eurohub....I think it was the largest scheduled BA type to operate into BHX, sadly it then went seasonal and in my opinion thats the death nell...and the end is nigh.

(Sigh) ... Anyway, If BA are taking out all IFE from their 757's this obviously means that they have NO plans whatsoever to use them on any considerable long haul route, like the afore mentioned BHXJFK sectors... Isnt BA constricting itself here ?

Joe
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:54 pm

Can someone tell me what the difference, if any, there is between the wings of the 767-400 or 777 and the 787? In the pictures of the 787 (renderings, etc) it looks like the wing "billows." Is that the way the wing is actually going to look? If so it is going to look kind of unusual  Smile
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
dc10bhx
Posts: 187
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:14 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 29):
It was always nice to see the 757 at the Eurohub....I think it was the largest scheduled BA type to operate into BHX,

IIRC BA used to have a 763 on the BHX-JFK route which was then down-graded to the 757 after about two years.

Whilst it was great to have the widebody available from BHX the requirement was that for the flight to continue operating from BHX the service had to be used to its fullest. This never happened and so we lost the flight. This in all fairness affected not only the passengers (both business and holiday) but also the freight forwarders who lost their link for big shipments without going down to LHR or upto MAN (at least until CO started off with their 757 which grew into the DC10 service).

I think the big thing about the 757 is that carriers have had their eyes opened by the passenger loads (and to a lesser degree the amount of cargo) being carried by these frames. People prefer the chance to fly from their local airport instead of traipsing down to LHR (or FRA/DUB etc) keeping local people in jobs. My preference (either on holidays or my job) is to fly from Birmingham whenever possible.
I'm lucky my job is my hobby
 
bhxdtw
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting DC10BHX (Reply 31):
My preference (either on holidays or my job) is to fly from Birmingham whenever possible.

Good call me to !... I love BHX

Any idea why the 757-300 isnt used on transatlantic ?
Is it simply the range issue ? would they be candidates for winglets ?

Also do Icelandic use their 757-300 to JFK ?

Joe
 
Ward86IND
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:13 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 32):
Any idea why the 757-300 isnt used on transatlantic ?
Is it simply the range issue ? would they be candidates for winglets ?

If there were more operators of the -300, they would be. I believe NW is the biggest operator (and only one I can think of off the top of my head) and if they had a major east-coast hub, they would be sending them as well as their 752's over the pond. DTW to Europe is really pushing it for any 757, and would be payload limited if they were ever to try it.
Live your dream.
 
Ward86IND
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:13 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 33):
DTW to Europe is really pushing it for any 757, and would be payload limited if they were ever to try it.

Wow! Just read another thread and I guess they're gonna put on some winglets and do it!
Live your dream.
 
airmailer
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:28 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting DC10BHX (Reply 31):
I think the big thing about the 757 is that carriers have had their eyes opened by the passenger loads (and to a lesser degree the amount of cargo) being carried by these frames. People prefer the chance to fly from their local airport instead of traipsing down to LHR (or FRA/DUB etc) keeping local people in jobs.

IMHO all they are doing with the 757 here is what SouthWest did with the 737.
Direct Flight, Routes that others said couldn't generate enough revenue.

They are just doing it with the 757s because A) they have them, and B) they have greater range than the 737 C) the extra seating capacity over the 737 probably doesn't hurt either.
 
skymileman
Posts: 577
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2001 2:32 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:29 am

I thought USairways was already using the 757 across the pond? In any case, it's probably a great use for the aircraft.
 
FiveMileFinal
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:17 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:27 am

Like I said in another thread, the thought of spending 7-10 hours in a 75 just breaks my head.

I'm glad that I live on the West Coast and have business/holiday in Europe. They can't drop a 75 on that nonstop because it's just not possible.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if operators from the west coast start sending 76es to Europe instead of 77s.
You goin'? We fly you dere! You been? We done already flew up in dere!
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:29 am

The longest i have ever been on a plane was from ATL-SEA which was on a 767. Even then i found it quite crowded.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
bhxdtw
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting FiveMileFinal (Reply 37):
I wouldn't be surprised, though, if operators from the west coast start sending 76es to Europe instead of 77s.

But who would do that ?

It wouldnt make too much sense for an airline like AA to start west coast flights to LHR for instance, so I guess it would only be profitable (yield-wise) if they were to start maybe a MAN-LAX with a 767... they could possible make a profit on that route with a 767..

What was the furthest BA sent their 767's ? wasnt it Phoenix ? Im not sure at all actually.. I remember PHX being served by DC-10's ...

Joe
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 39):

But who would do that ?

It wouldnt make too much sense for an airline like AA to start west coast flights to LHR for instance, so I guess it would only be profitable (yield-wise) if they were to start maybe a MAN-LAX with a 767... they could possible make a profit on that route with a 767..

What was the furthest BA sent their 767's ? wasnt it Phoenix ? Im not sure at all actually.. I remember PHX being served by DC-10's ...

Joe

Its unlikely that we will see any carrier open up lots of new transatlantic services from the west coast, with the 763ER or any other type - why?

1. Most of the new transatlantic services are from hub cities, and can only work from hub or gateway cities......the west coast does not work for obvious reasons, the geography is wrong for transatlantic services.

2. The 763ER is not an ideal airplane for such long services....California-Europe can take up to an hour longer with a 767 than a 747 or 777, for example. UA and AA did fly 767s on their SFO/LAX-LHR/CDG routes for a few years and quickly replaced the 767s and 777s when the newer aircraft became available.

3. Its a difficult market, over the years, PA and DL tried LAX-FRA without success, SAS failed with LAX-CPN, IB has been in and out of LAX, BA attempted LAX-MAN, AA and UA cannot seem to make CDG services work out financially.......these are long routes that requiremore than one aircraft to operate, etc.

The leading European carriers do better with their West Coast-Europe services as those flights feed into a major EU hub with lots and lots of onward connections.
 
supa7E7
Posts: 1360
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:05 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 40):

The leading European carriers do better with their West Coast-Europe services as those flights feed into a major EU hub with lots and lots of onward connections.

That's a great point. European carriers do have an advantage for that reason. UA or AA would get very little regional flow into LAX-FRA for example. Whereas LH has excellent feed for their FRA-LAX service. That makes all the difference.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
md90fan
Posts: 2798
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:15 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 33):
believe NW is the biggest operator (and only one I can think of off the top of my head)

There's NW,CO, TZ, Arkia, Condor, FI and maybe one or two others that I left out...  Smile
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
FiveMileFinal
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:17 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 39):
But who would do that?

If I'm not mistaken, Air Canada was recently flying 763s YVR-LHR on weekdays (and mixed in the occasional A343 on weekends). I see now that their nonstop is an A333.

I was merely conjecturing that UA would drop a 767 on its SFO-LHR route for example, but if they've already tried and it didn't work...
You goin'? We fly you dere! You been? We done already flew up in dere!
 
ckfred
Posts: 4714
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:19 pm

Could raked wingtips be installed on 767-200s and -300s. It's possible. Here's why.

I saw one of DL's -400s at ATL shortly after Boeing started delivering them. I told a friend of mine, a 767 F/O with AA that, besides having 777 windows, that the nav lights were located where the wing is raked, rather at the very tip of the wing.

He thought that was interesting, because on the -200s and -300s, there is a small notch in the wing, just behind the nav light on the wingtip. His theory is that Boeing may have envisioned putting some sort of extension back during initial designing, but took it out. For whatever reason, the notch was never smoothed out.

My friend thinks that the rake "extensions" could be retrofitted to the -200s and -300s, the way blended winglets are being retrofitted to 737NGs and 757s.

The problem for AA and other 767 operators is that the extensions would increase the wingspan, reducing the gates that can accept 767s.
 
planebuff
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 12:53 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:04 am

Ckfred-
Wouldn't it be rather impossible for a 767 to not be able to fit into a gate because of, oh, let's say, two, three feet? I see your point, but how would a six-foot difference matter?
Flown on CO, DL, UA, AA, LX, DL Connection by SkyWest, Song (DL).
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
Its a very interesting situation........in recent years, actually since the 757 family was discontinued, the type is having a renaissance and now is being used in different roles.

Does make you think if we are looking at a repeat of the MD-11

Boeing cancels it then everybody discovers what a good airplane it is.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4714
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting Planebuff (Reply 45):
Wouldn't it be rather impossible for a 767 to not be able to fit into a gate because of, oh, let's say, two, three feet? I see your point, but how would a six-foot difference matter?

The reason that AA held off on putting winglets on the 737-800s is that the wingspan increases by 5 feet. At some airports, the five feet is the difference between putting a 737-800 into an empty gate that usually has an MD-80 and having to wait for a 757 to push back.

For the 767-400, the raked wingtips add about 14 feet to the wingspan. So, for AA's 767s, the added wingspan might cause some problems At ORD, for example, there are gates that are very tight for 767s. The added wingspan might mean having to wait for a gate on Concourse L or a 777 gate at the end of Concourse K.
 
bhxdtw
Posts: 1035
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:42 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 46):
Does make you think if we are looking at a repeat of the MD-11

Boeing cancels it then everybody discovers what a good airplane it is.

Its really an interesting situation.. tho I know a lot of MD-11's are now freighters, the type did seem to be quite a favourite, particularly in the far east... kinda like how the 757 is in the USA.

I wonder if Boeing would ever open production for the 757 again ? I know its just wishful thinking, especially as there are so many around.. but in reality whats the market like for 2nd hand 757's ??

Joe
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Is The 757 Being Reborn Or Just Being Used Better?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:57 pm

I have been reading my old airplane books and reading about the issues with the 757. The 757 was meant to replace the 727, but was far more capable than required and opened up different markets than anticipated. The A320 was the first airplane that was able to replace the 727.

The 757 has always been recognized as an excellent performer, and now its showing off its performance in ways Boeing had never planned 30 years ago. Its inherent capabilities have found additional markets due to current conditions.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 9vswr, aadc10137, airtechy, audidudi, cohrn, COKMCI, flightsimer, ha763, iamlucky13, ikolkyo, IndianicWorld, LTU932, michman, NolaMD88fan, Yahoo [Bot] and 226 guests