7e72004
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What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:48 am

I read a news report (i believe it was one of the Indianapolis news web pages) that ATA plans to expand in terms of cities and planes in the coming couple of years. Where do you think they will go and what planes would they be interested in obtaining?
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ATA767
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:29 am

It is hard to tell. I am thinking 737's from cities where SW codeshare can be integrated like, HOU, MCO or BWI.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 1):


It is hard to tell. I am thinking 737's from cities where SW codeshare can be integrated like, HOU, MCO or BWI.

Looking down the road, and assuming a healthy, growing TZ with additional aircraft:

PHX-Mexico
MDW-More Mexico besides PVR and CUN
MDW-Carribean
TPA/MCO/FLL-Carribean
BWI-Europe (long shot)
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:35 am

Maybe they should come to frickin' MSP.  irked 

Mark
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7e72004
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:35 am

Didn't ATA operate JFK-Europe service a while back?
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Humberside
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:41 am

How about HOU-Mexico?
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sfo212
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:41 am

I think SFO would be a good choice  Wink
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 5):


How about HOU-Mexico?

No commercial FIS facilities at HOU. But I'll bet if WN twisted a few arms...it "might" get done.

CO of course would fire off legal salvos left and "wright"---pun intended.
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7e72004
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:44 am

BWI-Europe may be a good choice because of Southwest's operation there. Plus, with Southwest getting the upgrade to its computer system in the coming years, it could work out pretty good. I would say PHL-Europe but i think that is a VERY long shot  Big grin
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OzarkD9S
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 8):


I would say PHL-Europe but i think that is a VERY long shot

Exactly. BWI-Europe is a market currently devoid of US carrier operations. TZ could easily begin service to open-skies countries...and could probably snag some BWI-STN/LGW authority if they wanted it.
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Humberside
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 4):
Didn't ATA operate JFK-Europe service a while back?

I think it was to Dublin (and I guess therefore Shannon too). And also some EDI-Orlando charters I think
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7e72004
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:54 am

I think you are right. I remember flying their IND-PIE-FLL route and looking at a route map. They had some "unusual" routes like that.
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steeler83
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 9):
Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 8):


I would say PHL-Europe but i think that is a VERY long shot

Exactly. BWI-Europe is a market currently devoid of US carrier operations. TZ could easily begin service to open-skies countries...and could probably snag some BWI-STN/LGW authority if they wanted it.

No argument from this corner either. I would say PIT-Europe service, but does anyone really want to reopen that can of worms why that would not work???

Then again, I believe that TZ is a LCC. Perhaps it would drive up international O&D at PIT. Going back to the other hand, there is no O&D there to begin with and there likely will not be for some extended period of time...
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burnsie28
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
Maybe they should come to frickin' MSP. irked

Because that really worked for them before
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 13):
Because that really worked for them before

If they would have advertised that they were in kahoots with Southwest, they might have been more successful.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
wjcandee
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
Maybe they should come to frickin' MSP.

 rotfl   rotfl 

They came. They saw. They left.  Smile

Actually, as that was always a good route for ML back in the day, I was disappointed to see ATA pull out. I heard that had things been just a little different (better financial condition, entrenched code-share to all WN cities [not just the few that they had at the time], right aircraft for the route delivered and in-service), they might have stayed, and that it was a borderline call that might just as well have gone the other way, and which might well have gone the other way today. We'll see how FL does on it, without the WN code-share.

Anyway, great post, Mark.
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:24 am

Not trying to get off topic here but is ATA basically Southwest's airline to do what they don't want to do themselves (The international(maybe) or Hawaii routes / not only using 737). Also does ATA have any business plan to establish a hub of their own not dependent on Southwest, cause if they depend on Southwest for everything then aren't they kinda like their lap dog?

Thanks,
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wjcandee
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 16):
is ATA basically Southwest's airline to do what they don't want to do themselves

No. It isn't. However, on the scheduled service side, ATA is benefitting from the WN code share in two ways: (1) additional passengers to routes that (a) it has traditionally served [MDW-LGA, MDW-DCA] and (b) some new routes that WN wouldn't serve but which are helped by the code-share [LGA-IAH]; (2) additional "street cred" or "pax cred" or "legitimacy" owing to its relationship with WN, which may encourage some folks to try it and hopefully like what they find.

The balance of ATA's business plan involves increasing its commercial charter business and military charter business, in both of which it provides a top-notch, higher-end product than many of its competitors. Those businesses were treated like ugly stepchildren by the John Tague management team, which is now gone; those businesses are well-appreciated by the current private owners, which are looking to draw additional revenue from them.
 
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drerx7
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:55 am

Of course being a Houstonian I'd like to see some expansion from Hobby.
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ATLFlyer323
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:02 am

Thanks Wjanndee you told me what I wanted to know. I really hope that Southwest doesn't take what they learned from ATA and do it themselves, like starting routes to Hawaii themselves. I love ATA's livery, I find it very tasteful, and don't want to see that go. So do you think that as time goes on ATA and Southwest will work together even more or stay where they are now?

Thanks,
Brandon
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 4):
Didn't ATA operate JFK-Europe service a while back?

About 15 years ago to Shannon, Dublin, and Riga, Latvia. However, we have been flying internationally for 33 years to all corners of the globe, just not scheduled. We have the capabilities and aircraft to fly virtually anywhere in the world.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:17 am

As for aircraft to be added to sched service, it will be about 2-3 more 737NGs per year.

The charter side will see 7-9 widebodies very soon, probably over the next year or so. What types are still unknown for sure, though DC10-30s are still being discussed. L-1011-500 N164AT WILL get D checked this October, but it is hoped to avoid D checking N161AT in March 2007 if we have a widebody replacement by then.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
wjcandee
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 17):
helped by the code-share [LGA-IAH];

By the way, once again it's too late to edit, but I meant LGA-HOU, which I guess you all know.
 
wjcandee
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 21):
L-1011-500 N164AT WILL get D checked this October,

Among other things, this is an indication to me that the present owners believe that they can't let the widebody fleet drop below 4, and they're willing to make the capital investment to make sure it stays there. That's good news.

At least they'll have a chance to use the new widebody paint masks on 164. I hope.
 
WN57787
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
Maybe they should come to frickin' MSP.

Mark

TZ discontuned MSP service early this year 2006

Quoting SFO212 (Reply 6):
I think SFO would be a good choice

TZ just moved thare operations to OAK no longer service to SFO
 
DCAYOW
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:53 am

I think they will add Hawaii service from SAN to conx to WN operation at SAN.
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tmarch291
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:28 am

If TZ is thinking of adding more widebodies, what type do they want?
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:04 pm

Quoting Tmarch291 (Reply 26):
If TZ is thinking of adding more widebodies, what type do they want?

As for want, its 767-300s. But just like life, we can't have everything we want and have to settle for the alternatives Big grin The alternative list includes the 777, DC10-30, and A340.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
COERJ145
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:59 pm

It would be nice if we could get them back to the New England Area, ala BOS or OHR. Maybe they'll start seasonal MDW-PSP.
 
7e72004
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:57 pm

Maybe ATA should order an A380 or two.  Big grin
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ATA767
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 29):
Maybe ATA should order an A380 or two.

I would be shocked if ATA considered Airbus for their fleet. The old management team was strickly boeing and only toyed with the idea when they were looking for smaller jets back in 2003.
 
7e72004
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:09 pm

Did they even consider Airbus when they were planning their new fleet? (the 737-800s). My guess is they will obviously stay with Boeing because that is what they are as well as Southwest. I would not be surprised, if in the next several years, Southwest absorbs ATA and breaks its tradition of operating only 737s and domestic only service.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
ATA767
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:20 pm

Here is a tid bit form what management is saying about expansion
...expansion plans call for about 20% growth per year - on the scheduled
service side. That translates to about 2 narrow-body aircraft in the first
year - increasing to 4 in year five. Remember that these are our PLANS - so
please take them as such - as something that we ASPIRE To do

We have NOT YET begun the process of planning, at the detailed level
(markets,aircraft, etc.)

we would achieve this growth by increasing the count
of our military widebody airplanes by 1 or 2 - and then moving the
EQUIVALENT capacity (2 or 3 of the 757s dedicated to Military/Charter) into
the Scheduled Service Business.
 
chase
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:20 pm

I forsee:
SAN-Hawaii
SMF-Hawaii
Maybe SEA-Hawaii again
BWI-Carribean
and maybe in several years BWI-SNN or BWI-CGN.
 
7e72004
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:24 pm

I would have to guess BWI-Europe. It makes perfect sense considering Southwest has a hub there and in a couple of years will have the computer system that can handle the international schedules. I recall hearing on one of the news channels here (Indianapolis) that there is a possibility that ATA could return to IND with limited service (which i doubt considering NW and FL would probably crush ATA).
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
ATA767
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 34):
ATA could return to IND with limited service (which i doubt considering NW and FL would probably crush ATA).

Not any more!!
 
burnsie28
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 35):

Not any more!!

Yes NW especially would crush ATA at IND.


But on the other side, I heard they were going to start basing planes at Mariana.  Wink
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: What Cities/planes Will ATA Expand To?

Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 30):
I would be shocked if ATA considered Airbus for their fleet. The old management team was strickly boeing and only toyed with the idea when they were looking for smaller jets back in 2003.

The old management team is gone and no airline these days can afford to exclude any aircraft type if it makes sense to the business plan. A340s are not beyond the realm of possibility if the business case makes sense.

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 31):
Did they even consider Airbus when they were planning their new fleet? (the 737-800s). My guess is they will obviously stay with Boeing because that is what they are as well as Southwest. I would not be surprised, if in the next several years, Southwest absorbs ATA and breaks its tradition of operating only 737s and domestic only service.

Yes, Airbus was played against Boeing for the re-fleeting, but as you mentioned before, George Mikelsons et al would never operate anything but Boeing. George and his buddies are gone and new owners/management are in charge now. Their is no plans to replace or add Airbus narrowbodies. The scheduled service side will remain mostly 737s with some 757s thrown in. The only talks of anything Airbus is widebodies for the charter side. This company really has two divisions, Scheduled Service and Charter.

Southwest will NOT be acquiring ATA. As I have mentioned before, they have no ownership stake in the new ATA and we are majority owned by Matlin Patterson as a private company. Therefore, it is impossible for them to acquire unless Matlin Patterson sells which they are unlikely to do anytime soon. If Southwest was really interested, then it would have been much easier to have acquired us before leaving bankruptcy. It makes much more business sense for them to have any arms-length codeshare relationship. Read this article....

http://www.thestreet.com/_email/stocks/transportation/10288680.html
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.

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