steeler83
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PIT Traffic On The Rise

Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:29 am

Hello all,

Sorry for my little "vacation" there; trying to settle in to Central PA and seek employment. I saw in the Post-Gazette where it read that the airport traffic was on the rise. US traffic still continued to fall, but not nearly as much as in previous months. Anyone have any ideas as to how high PIT traffic could go up? How about the future of B6 there and any other airlines currently in talks with the A.C.A.A. and County Chief Exec. Dan Onorato?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
CentPIT
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:04 am

I think this is a great thing for Pittsburgh International and hope traffic continues to grow for months to come.

B6 is going to increase traffic dramatically between PIT-BOS and PIT-NY. I was looking for flights from PIT-JFK in month of July and Delta has already added a fourth daily flight in anticipation of the added traffic. Delta's fare PIT-JFK is down to $158.60 round trip. I think PIT is going to continue to grow.

The next thing I am waiting for is the announcement from WN that they are adding flights and destinations from Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 1):
The next thing I am waiting for is the announcement from WN that they are adding flights and destinations from Pittsburgh.

That would certainly be nice. Even if they added frequencies and not destinations - that would be a very good thing for da burgh. That still shows that there is still some growth at PIT. The ACAA even said that the O&Ds are coming up considerably with the arrival of LCCs. I would expect to see WN carry 100,000 pax within the next month or two here. They boarded and deplaned some 90,000+plus last month...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
CentPIT
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
That would certainly be nice. Even if they added frequencies and not destinations - that would be a very good thing for da burgh. That still shows that there is still some growth at PIT. The ACAA even said that the O&Ds are coming up considerably with the arrival of LCCs. I would expect to see WN carry 100,000 pax within the next month or two here. They boarded and deplaned some 90,000+plus last month...

Yes, I would expect 100,000 plus pax for WN within the next few months as well. US Airways is still slowly losing Pittsburgh passengers to Southwest, Delta, and United Airlines!

Year-to-Date Passengers at PIT

US Airways- 1,742,017 pax (56.18%)

Southwest Airlines- 325,401 pax (10.49%)

Delta Airlines- 233,231 pax (7.52%)

United Airlines- 217,807 (7.02%)

Total Passengers--3,114,628

Courtesy of www.flypittsburgh.com
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
stirling
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:41 pm

This should just go to prove once and for all; being a hub is not all that it is cracked up to be.
Good for Pittsburgh...
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Ward86IND
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:32 pm

Hmm....All-Star Game coming up....they need to promote the hell out of the city AND the airport. It's a crime that this beautiful airport built only 12 years ago is so underserved. They've got the facilities...this kind of growth has been a long time coming.
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steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:53 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
This should just go to prove once and for all; being a hub is not all that it is cracked up to be.
Good for Pittsburgh...

I do miss the hub at PIT, but on the other hand... Seeing every 9 out of 10 airplanes there being a US plane did get rather old. US' dehubbing of PIT essentially opened up the playing field for other airlines to come in and pick up the ball and keep it rolling wherever US left off.

FL came in with a rather strong presence some 5 or 6 years ago, but ultimately succumbed some of the routes to US (PIT-PHL/NYC and I think BOS). When US started to drastically slash its presence at PIT, other LCCs raided the airport: U5, YX, and Flyi. Then, US decided in November of 2004 that they would close the hub. Shortly after that, WN came into town and is now the number two carrier. By this time next month, B6 will have n/s service to JFK and BOS. I do think that good times are definitely ahead for PIT.

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 5):
Hmm....All-Star Game coming up....they need to promote the hell out of the city AND the airport. It's a crime that this beautiful airport built only 12 years ago is so underserved. They've got the facilities...this kind of growth has been a long time coming.

Amen to that! I am just curious to see if and when US will start to see gains in traffic, if at all...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
CentPIT
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
I do miss the hub at PIT, but on the other hand... Seeing every 9 out of 10 airplanes there being a US plane did get rather old. US' dehubbing of PIT essentially opened up the playing field for other airlines to come in and pick up the ball and keep it rolling wherever US left off.

I was thinking the same exact thing. In 2004 spotting at PIT was US and that is about it. The other day I was up at the airport and the mixture was much better. I saw more aircraft from other airlines than US.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
Amen to that! I am just curious to see if and when US will start to see gains in traffic, if at all...

I don't think US will see a gain in PIT until they are done downsizing and changing the schedule so much. US isn't totally done with its PIT schedule, so until they add flights or begin selling out a lot more flights, they probably won't see much of a gain this year anyway.

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 5):
Hmm....All-Star Game coming up....they need to promote the hell out of the city AND the airport. It's a crime that this beautiful airport built only 12 years ago is so underserved. They've got the facilities...this kind of growth has been a long time coming.

I agree with you 100%! The city is also beautiful, especially when you come out of the Fort Pitt tunnel! AMAZING VIEW!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 7):
I agree with you 100%! The city is also beautiful, especially when you come out of the Fort Pitt tunnel! AMAZING VIEW!

I know!! No other city in the country has quite an entrance like that! You go from seeing nothing to WHAM!!! A bustling metropolitan core of a city right smack in front of you. Other spectacular views can be seen from I-279 from the North Hills or from PA-28 as well. Even the Parkway East has a good view, and that one will be better once they remove that hideous pedestrian bridge that crosses the freeway as you round the corner coming from Squirrel Hill. Some city officials are even contemplating on whether or not to put a "Welcome to Pittsburgh" sign there. That would be AWESOME!!!

Pittsburgh is such a great city. It is beautiful with plenty of open space and gorgeous modern-day skyscrapers. Plus, the people there are very nice; among the friendliest in any metropolitan area in the country. I really want it to turn around and become a successful business center again (not to imply that it is not successful now).
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CentPIT
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 7):
I don't think US will see a gain in PIT until they are done downsizing and changing the schedule so much. US isn't totally done with its PIT schedule, so until they add flights or begin selling out a lot more flights, they probably won't see much of a gain this year anyway.

Just to emphasize the above message, I was checking the US schedule for the week of June 8, 2006 and the following changes will take place. These may not be permanent.

PIT-BOS (from 5 to 4 daily)
PIT-IND (from 4 E70s to 1 DH8 and 3 E70s)
PIT-AVP (from 3 DH8s to 2 DH8s 1 ERJ)
PIT-LGA (an additional CRJ making the total 6 daily)
PIT-MIA (Saturday only is now a B734 not a B733)
PIT-MYR (Saturday only E70s is back to 1 E70 instead of 2)
PIT-ORD (a CRJ has been upgraded to an additional E70. The total remains at 5)
PIT-PBI (the B734 is now a B733)
PIT-RSW (the B733 is now an A319)
PIT-SEA (Service to Seattle, WA has now resumed with a daily A320!!!)
PIT-CUN (Service to Cancun, Mexico has now resumed with a Sat. only A319)

Note*-Some of these may be temporary changes... www.usairways.com
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
PurdueAv2003
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 8):
Even the Parkway East has a good view, and that one will be better once they remove that hideous pedestrian bridge that crosses the freeway as you round the corner coming from Squirrel Hill.

Already gone! Once they finish repaving the Parkway East, my drive in to work will be much better. If only they could add a third lane in to the tunnels...

Back to PIT air traffic...I don't see US adding much more to PIT, but I don't see them reducing much more, either. With leases signed on the maintenance hangars for five more years, US will probably keep the same number of aircraft flying into PIT to make the maintenance base worth while.
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Rottamo
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 1):
elta's fare PIT-JFK is down to $158.60 round trip. I think PIT is going to continue to grow.

according to CONSUMER AIR FARE REPORT:
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/X-5...le_files/consumerairfarereport.htm

average fare should be (in the future)
NY-PIT $80-$100
was $280
BOS-PIT $90-$120
was $274
That is average of all sold tickets.

Lets hope it is going to happen. And traffic should skyrocket in these routes.

Rottamo

[Edited 2006-06-04 07:21:23]
 
Rottamo
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:12 pm

Well. You guys have some quite high fares (on short routes). I took quick look and SWA could open several short routes out of town. Current passenger numbers are quite low but when fare is $80-$100 then there are much more demand.

Some SWA route ideas:
Pittsburgh, PA - Washington, DC
Hartford, CT/Springfield, MA - Pittsburgh, PA
Baltimore, MD - Pittsburgh, PA
Pittsburgh, PA -Raleigh/Durham, NC
Pittsburgh, PA - Providence, RI
Manchester, NH - Pittsburgh, PA

They are very good at short routes.
And when they opened certain shote routes in Philadelphia demand went up quite heavily.

And two future routes that are promising candidates for fare stimulation are
Detroit, MI - Pittsburgh, PA
Charlotte, NC - Pittsburgh, PA



You can check SWA fare level for these routes from that consumer fare report.

Rottamo
 
Ward86IND
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:50 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 8):
I agree with you 100%! The city is also beautiful, especially when you come out of the Fort Pitt tunnel! AMAZING VIEW!



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 8):
I know!! No other city in the country has quite an entrance like that! You go from seeing nothing to WHAM!!! A bustling metropolitan core of a city right smack in front of you.

One of my very first memories is coming through the Fort Pitt tunnel when my family on our way to a Pirates game at Three Rivers (when they were actually good with pre-steriods Bonds). I was barely tall enough to see the tops of the skyscrapers! Takes my breath away every time I go back...

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 9):
Pittsburgh is such a great city. It is beautiful with plenty of open space and gorgeous modern-day skyscrapers. Plus, the people there are very nice; among the friendliest in any metropolitan area in the country. I really want it to turn around and become a successful business center again (not to imply that it is not successful now).

Totally agreed. Unfortunately a lot of people I know still think of Pittsburgh as a dirty steel town. While it is still deep down Steel City USA, it's not dirty anymore at all, hasn't been for a while!! Other midwestern cities like Indy might have the edge economically, but not 1/10 the soul of Da Burgh!!
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steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 13):
Unfortunately a lot of people I know still think of Pittsburgh as a dirty steel town. While it is still deep down Steel City USA, it's not dirty anymore at all, hasn't been for a while!! Other midwestern cities like Indy might have the edge economically, but not 1/10 the soul of Da Burgh!!

Pittsburgh has been "cleaning up its act" since the 1950s with its restoration of the point and Gateway Center projects dating back to the days of David L. Lawrence. The steel mills closed over the years from 1978(?) thru 1998, with the latest steel mill to close, the LTV Hazelwood Cokeworks. There were about a dozen steel mills in Pittsburgh's hayday as the steel city, but now only two remain.

Today, Pittsburgh is a leader in modern green building design. The new David L Lawrence Convention Center is among the largest green buildings in the country. Green buildings are energy efficient, constructed of recyclable materials, and are quite cost effective generally. 92% of all the construction materials used to construct the Lawrence Convention Center came from the old building, according to an article about green buildings in the post gazette last year.

Because of the demise of the steel industry, the city's economy is changing from manufacturing to service and business-oriented. Hopefully with the expansion of Pittsburgh's downtown neighborhood and the addition of more hotels and other retail uses, Downtown will be the place to be again.
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CentPIT
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Rottamo (Reply 12):
Some SWA route ideas:
Pittsburgh, PA - Washington, DC
Hartford, CT/Springfield, MA - Pittsburgh, PA
Baltimore, MD - Pittsburgh, PA
Pittsburgh, PA -Raleigh/Durham, NC
Pittsburgh, PA - Providence, RI
Manchester, NH - Pittsburgh, PA

They are very good at short routes.
And when they opened certain shote routes in Philadelphia demand went up quite heavily.

And two future routes that are promising candidates for fare stimulation are
Detroit, MI - Pittsburgh, PA
Charlotte, NC - Pittsburgh, PA

I expected the following routes by now:

PIT-PVD
PIT-MHT
PIT-BDL
PIT-BWI

I also forgot to mention that PIT-PVD on US has been reduced to 3 daily departures down from 4!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
tooluther
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:46 am

Has US adjusted fares from PIT-LGA in responce to B6?

Also, we NEED new LCC service to the D.C. metro (FL/WN to BWI, B6 to Dulles, or anyone to DCA)...I had to take the train down last week and it was horrible (but cheap)
 
N670UW
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 16):
Has US adjusted fares from PIT-LGA in responce to B6?

It appears all PIT-NYC carriers have matched B6's fares (to a degree, at least) -- US (LGA, EWR), AA (LGA), CO (EWR), DL (JFK).

I'm not sure about PIT-BOS.
 
kubus
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:12 am

They did finally. Round trip PIT-LGA same day return (think business meeting) used to cost $850 for coach, now it's $138.
There goes their revenue though, that 7:30AM to LGA and 6:10P back to PIT was always packed. Almost every time I flew, I would give up my seat on the 6:10P for 7:45P flight... I'm flying my friends for their wedding to Vegas thanks to those bumps for free.
 
Flaps
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:00 am

On the subject of PIT-NYC, does anyone know how the new AA flights to LGA are doing?
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 16):
Also, we NEED new LCC service to the D.C. metro (FL/WN to BWI, B6 to Dulles, or anyone to DCA)...I had to take the train down last week and it was horrible (but cheap)

You took Amtrak's Capitol Limited down to D.C.? Ouch in deed!!! Doesn't that train leave in the middle of the night from PGH?

As far as any new LCC carriers from PIT to D.C., it would be nice to see WN do PIT-BWI or B6 open up PIT-IAD.

Wait a minute, when Independence started the PIT-IAD route last year or the year before, why weren't the fares adjusted then? Now that Independence is history, it would be nice to see some other LCC come in and pick up the slack; US doesn't exactly count here...
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Flaps
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:02 am

The Washington area market is about the last major destination from PIT with no LCC service. I've been wondering for some time who is going to jump on it and when. Independence was pretty successful that market going up against the same competition that exists now (US/UA). Granted, a lot of that was connecting traffic but that market is still there. WN to BWI would likely be the most successful candidate, both for stimulation of local traffic and for southern connecting opportunities.
 
N670UW
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 21):
Independence was pretty successful that market going up against the same competition that exists now (US/UA). Granted, a lot of that was connecting traffic but that market is still there. WN to BWI would likely be the most successful candidate, both for stimulation of local traffic and for southern connecting opportunities.

The entrance of Independence Air into the Pittsburgh-Washington market caused O&D traffic to jump 122% in a year from 3rd Qtr 2004 to 3rd Qtr 2005 (the DOT's most recent numbers) -- 181.95 avg. daily local pax in 3Q04 to 403.58 avg. daily local pax in 3Q05.

Independence Air was also the largest carrier (market share) in 3rd Qtr 2005, despite US Airways offering mainline jets to DCA.

Frankly, I expected WN to have announced PIT-BWI by now.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:49 am

Well, Independence created a bunch of stimulated traffic in a bunch of markets that doesn't exist anymore - it's easy to stimulate traffic when you offer way-below-cost fares that are completely out of whack with any concept of profit and loss. Those traffic numbers should not be confused with any sort of realistic stable number.
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steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 21):



Quoting N670UW (Reply 22):



Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 23):

Well then, I think that the next destination out of PIT for WN should either be BWI or IAD - BWI if anything, then I guess B6 would consider adding IAD at some point in the future...

I didn't think of this one either: What if FL came in to offer service from PIT-BWI. They have a large operation at BWI and have a presence at PIT. However, I don't think FL would be interested in doing so. It was just a thought...
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tooluther
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 20):
You took Amtrak's Capitol Limited down to D.C.? Ouch in deed!!! Doesn't that train leave in the middle of the night from PGH?

Yup, that's the one. Not only was it a huge pain getting up that early, but I was on the train in the news that got hit by the freight train and so it took an extra million hours to get down there.
 
CentPIT
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 19):
On the subject of PIT-NYC, does anyone know how the new AA flights to LGA are doing?

Now that the fares are lower, AA has an average load factor of 84.13% up from an average of 75.65%. This is pretty good in my book. I don't know if it is a money maker or not?

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 20):
US doesn't exactly count here...

They don't count anywhere, except the destinations that WN and B6 offer flights on.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 22):
Frankly, I expected WN to have announced PIT-BWI by now.

Who didn't?

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 24):
What if FL came in to offer service from PIT-BWI.

FL is a lost cause anymore at PIT. PIT-ATL is about it and that isn't that cheap! PIT-MCO, big deal. If they pulled out of PIT tomorrow it wouldn't hurt PIT-MCO.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
atct
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 20):
You took Amtrak's Capitol Limited down to D.C.? Ouch in deed!!! Doesn't that train leave in the middle of the night from PGH?

Ive ridden that train. Frankly, I rather enjoyed it  Smile I love riding the train to DC. (even though its often late).

Regarding WN, I wish we had BWI and MHT service. I'd also personally like to see PIT-RSW...which is a stretch. USA3000 flies it a few times a week with rather steady loads (90%-full). Also with US flying it once daily now with an A319...I could def. see one or two daily 73's from WN.

I remember back when FL had that expansion here, PHL, LGA, TPA, SRQ, ATL, MDW, and FLL I believe. They have never served Boston though, you may be thinking of the old "Eastwind."

Hopefully someone new (Frontier/Alaska) comes into PIT, and the current guys expand their routes. Its nice to see some non-US tails for a change now  Smile ....or should I say, some non US-Express tails!

ATCT
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CentPIT
Posts: 978
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting ATCT (Reply 27):
Hopefully someone new (Frontier/Alaska) comes into PIT, and the current guys expand their routes. Its nice to see some non-US tails for a change now ....or should I say, some non US-Express tails!

I would kill to see Alaska Airlines in Pittsburgh.

Regarding WN PIT-Flordia, I would expect FLL if anything. RSW and PBI would be amazing though. FLL is quite crappy in some areas. TPA, JAX, RSW, and PBI are all much nicer.

Amelia Island is beautiful, I think I am going to be heading down there the second week in July. Probably on WN, they are the cheapest!
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steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:05 am

Today in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review:

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/business/s_456802.html

"Westinghouse Sale to Toshiba OK'd"

Regarding local employment of Westinghouse/Toshiba:

"Toshiba has made it clear that the Westinghouse workforce will remain intact, and that the company will remain headquartered in Monroeville," Gilbert said.

Separately, Gilbert said Western Pennsylvania is one of four finalists for the location of new office space for 2,500-plus new hires expected to join Westinghouse over the next five years.

"Western Pennsylvania is one of the finalists, along with Connecticut and North and South Carolina," Gilbert said. "We expect to make a decision by November."

Gilbert emphasized that even if another state is selected for the new space, all existing facilities in the region will be maintained, and probably will expand as Westinghouse gears up to handle the projected worldwide growth in nuclear reactor construction. The company currently employs 9,000 worldwide, of which 3,000 work in Western Pennsylvania."

Vaughn Gilbert was the Westinghouse Spokesman.

Basically, the article stated that Toshiba does not intend to move its Westinghouse employees anywhere, and that Toshiba might double the number of employees there...

Do you suppose that this could be a driving mechanism in international O&D out of Pittsburgh?
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Flaps
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:15 am

I have some engineering friends that work at the Monroeville facility. They do travel extensively, including a heavy amount of international travel. Their travel patterns though are widely scattered. While the overall amount of international O&D would go up if this goes through it wont be anywhere near enough to stimulate any new service. Just a couple of more load factor points on existing flights to JFK/ORD/ATL/DTW etc.
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 29):

Great news for Pittsburgh! I hope they decide to locate the facility near PIT. Why would they go to another state when they already have most of their employees here?
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 31):
Great news for Pittsburgh! I hope they decide to locate the facility near PIT. Why would they go to another state when they already have most of their employees here?

Good question. Granted, this probably will not yield any new international service, but added pax loads to JFK/ATL/LAX/ORD and others would not be bad at all. It still would drive up O&D in general. Perhaps other airlines would want to add service to PIT if that were to happen...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
CentPIT
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:21 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 32):
Good question. Granted, this probably will not yield any new international service, but added pax loads to JFK/ATL/LAX/ORD and others would not be bad at all. It still would drive up O&D in general. Perhaps other airlines would want to add service to PIT if that were to happen...

Yeah! Maybe we can regain service that US dropped such as:

PIT-BNA
PIT-ATL
PIT-DFW
PIT-IAH
PIT-MSP
PIT-MHT

Those can all support service now, hahaha!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Rottamo
Posts: 135
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:06 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 23):
Well, Independence created a bunch of stimulated traffic in a bunch of markets that doesn't exist anymore - it's easy to stimulate traffic when you offer way-below-cost fares that are completely out of whack with any concept of profit and loss. Those traffic numbers should not be confused with any sort of realistic stable number.

Average Indipendent fare (Pittsburg-Washington) was $109 and route lenght is 205 miles.
Typical WN fare for route that long was $80-$90 during Q3/2005.
But Baltimore is much more likely.
Source: Consumer fare report Q3 / 2005. Table 1 page 1/22.

Rottamo
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 33):
Yeah! Maybe we can regain service that US dropped such as:

PIT-BNA
PIT-ATL
PIT-DFW
PIT-IAH
PIT-MSP
PIT-MHT

Those can all support service now, hahaha!

Especially DFW. It was rather stupid IMO for US to discontinue that. Dallas is one of the top business destinations for Pittsburgh travelers. They should reopen that route with at least twice daily A319s and have fares start at $79 one way, with the maximum walk-up be under $300, like with Southwest. WN isn't going to offer PIT-DAL or DFW anytime soon with W.A. still intact, and people in PIT want to travel that route, at least enough to warant N/S service I would think anyway...

New Orleans really isn't a big destination for Pittsburgh travelers. I believe that is only offered a few times a week now instead of daily... I could probably see WN doing BNA and MHT in addition to BWI. ATL is pretty much well covered with FL and DL service there; I don't think that US will have much luck with that route...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
tooluther
Posts: 194
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:50 am

Does AA every "re-mainline" their stations after they drop the to all eagle? It seams like the decision to downgrade the station was because of seniority issues, not because there wasn't alot of demand...they (plus US dropping the route) are one of the reasons PIT-DFW is so underserved right now. Maybe if they put mainline jets on again it would help.

This could again be a position where FL steps back into the picture, but I think they would have done it by now.
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:58 am

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 36):
This could again be a position where FL steps back into the picture, but I think they would have done it by now.

Yeah... they sure are committed to serving PIT aren't they...  sarcastic 
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
N670UW
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 35):
They should reopen that route with at least twice daily A319s and have fares start at $79 one way, with the maximum walk-up be under $300, like with Southwest.

And the route would be gone just as fast. US would lose a lot of money at those fares.

One would think Pittsburgh-Dallas could support something larger than a 70-seat RJ. Dallas is PIT's 10th-largest O&D market, and there are plenty of markets lower than Dallas that support mainline service...many on non-US Airways carriers.

Also have to wonder how Eagle's PIT-MIA is doing...now that US is only flying it Saturday-only.
 
N670UW
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:45 pm

Also, some minor PIT news...

JetBlue signs a long-term lease through 2018, and the ACAA has scrapped the cell phone lot idea...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06154/695558-147.stm
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1874
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting ATCT (Reply 27):
I remember back when FL had that expansion here, PHL, LGA, TPA, SRQ, ATL, MDW, and FLL I believe. They have never served Boston though, you may be thinking of the old "Eastwind."

Actually, the most flights per day were 14, in the summer/fall of 2001, and they went to ATL, MDW, LGA, and PHL. MCO and FLL were added in 2003. FL never flew PIT-RSW, PIT-SRQ, or PIT-TPA.

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 36):
Does AA every "re-mainline" their stations after they drop the to all eagle? It seams like the decision to downgrade the station was because of seniority issues, not because there wasn't alot of demand...they (plus US dropping the route) are one of the reasons PIT-DFW is so underserved right now. Maybe if they put mainline jets on again it would help.

This could again be a position where FL steps back into the picture, but I think they would have done it by now.

I doubt AA closed the mainline station because of "seniority" issues. The station was only opened in 1978! The most senior person I knew there started in 1986. The loads to DFW were not that hot, and ORD and MIA were moderately full at best. The MD-80 to MIA at 8:00a that RONs here was a huge flop. AA has really not built up the PIT market as fully as I'd thought they would. They had (arguably) the best-looking and best-located gates in the airport and never used all of them at the same time. The most flights AA ever had in PIT were in the fall of 2001, when they flew 24 flights a day (4 to BOS, 6 to ORD, 4 to DFW, 5 to JFK, and 6 to STL). BNA and RDU came and went many times, as did ORD service. AA has never really gotten it together as far as making PIT an effective line station, IMO.
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steeler83
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting N670UW (Reply 38):
Also have to wonder how Eagle's PIT-MIA is doing...now that US is only flying it Saturday-only.

I hear that AA Eagle is doing quite well on PIT-MIA with good load factors on their flights. Don't they fly Embraer jets down there, or are they CRJs? IIRC, I think that they used Embraers on that route...

As far as US doing a PIT-DFW, I guess the O&D at PIT has to continue to grow to warant any mainline service on that route again. I thought that being that PIT was one of DFW's top ten O&D markets that that would be enough, but evidently it is not...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 36):
Does AA every "re-mainline" their stations after they drop the to all eagle? It seams like the decision to downgrade the station was because of seniority issues, not because there wasn't alot of demand...they (plus US dropping the route) are one of the reasons PIT-DFW is so underserved right now. Maybe if they put mainline jets on again it would help.

AA needs to offer 7 daily flights on PIT-DFW, the passengers are there! The 70 seaters are probabaly a good aircraft, but 5 daily isn't enough!

Quoting Tooluther (Reply 36):
This could again be a position where FL steps back into the picture, but I think they would have done it by now.

Forget them!

Quoting N670UW (Reply 38):
Also have to wonder how Eagle's PIT-MIA is doing...now that US is only flying it Saturday-only.

Pittsburgh to Miami is doing well:

Average Load factors:

90.92%

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 41):
As far as US doing a PIT-DFW, I guess the O&D at PIT has to continue to grow to warant any mainline service on that route again. I thought that being that PIT was one of DFW's top ten O&D markets that that would be enough, but evidently it is not...

ORD, DFW, and now LGA do very well in my opinion!

Average Load factors:

PIT-DFW (97.70%)
PIT-ORD (94.99%)
PIT-LGA (84.13%)
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
Flaps
Posts: 1198
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RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:56 am

Where do you get a 1978 date for the station opening? AA has been here since the Electra days. Could you be thinking of DL?
 
Rottamo
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 42):
Average Load factors:

PIT-DFW (97.70%)
PIT-ORD (94.99%)
PIT-LGA (84.13%)

These numbers seems to be quite high. I have seen load factors around (for US)
PIT-DFW 65%-70%
PIT-ORD around 65%
PIT-LGA around 60%


I am curious. Where did you get your numbers?

Rottamo
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Rottamo (Reply 44):
I am curious. Where did you get your numbers?

They are just averages from flights and information I compound. I never said they were 100% accurate, but I doubt they are very far off. I would say you can give or take 5% each way.

US can put 2x E70 service on PIT-DFW, but I just don't think they want to. You aren't going to tell me there aren't enough passengers!

 Wink
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 45):
US can put 2x E70 service on PIT-DFW, but I just don't think they want to. You aren't going to tell me there aren't enough passengers!

Sure, I could see US doing that instead of A319 service. I didn't even think about them doing that! Yeah, if PIT is one of DFW's top 10 O&D markets and vise versa, how can there not be enough pax?!!! That would be a whopper contradiction there! That would mean that either PIT or DFW are reeeeeeeallllly small markets, which is not the case at all, especially for DFW with a whopper AA hub operating some 700+ daily flights. PIT is a fairly large market as well. It doesn't have the O&D to support a hub - YET!!! but that market is growing...

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 42):
Quoting Tooluther (Reply 36):
This could again be a position where FL steps back into the picture, but I think they would have done it by now.

Forget them!

No need to waste anymore breath about that. They had an opportunity to add several flights to their dismal network out of PIT in the wake of the US hub closure, and they did not capitalize on it. Enough said. Moving on... What does B6 have in store for PIT? We'll find out eventually...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
N670UW
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:55 am

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 46):
Yeah, if PIT is one of DFW's top 10 O&D markets and vise versa, how can there not be enough pax?!!!

Just a minor correction, Pittsburgh is nowhere near being part of DFW's top 10 O&D markets.

PIT is around 40-ish on DFW's O&D list. DFW is Pittsburgh's 10th-largest O&D market.

Still a solid market, though.
 
GoAllegheny
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2000 4:48 am

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:42 am

Steeler83, I just returned from a three-day conference of wind energy developers and businesses in Pittsburgh, over 4,000 at the convention center. As a Pittsburgh native, now in Chicago, I was very proud of the city and very impressed with the convention center. The conference included attendees from all over the world - Japan, Europe, India, Africa, South America, even West Virginia (just kidding).

I also saw an article in today's Post-Gazette about Chuck Cohen, who was my securities law prof. in law school at Pitt. His law firm is celebrating its 25th anniversary. The one thing that stuck out for me in the article was that he said that the firm is working on three major downtown redevelopment projects, and that "for the first time in 20 years, I'm actually feeling optimistic that the central city will be revitalized." I hope so.

And I was amazed that despite the improving picture, the old "adult" bookstore on Liberty Avenue that was there in 1976 is still in business!

And finally, to tie this back to aviation, I was surprised that a friend of mine from Kansas City was able to fly non-stop on Midwest to Pittsburgh. Nice.
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: PIT Traffic On The Rise

Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:54 am

Quoting GoAllegheny (Reply 48):
And finally, to tie this back to aviation, I was surprised that a friend of mine from Kansas City was able to fly non-stop on Midwest to Pittsburgh. Nice.

Isn't it!!

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 46):
No need to waste anymore breath about that. They had an opportunity to add several flights to their dismal network out of PIT in the wake of the US hub closure, and they did not capitalize on it. Enough said. Moving on... What does B6 have in store for PIT? We'll find out eventually...

Much better, haha! I think B6 will benefit Pittsburgh way more than AirTran has/will in the future!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)

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