ba747
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US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:21 am

I don´t know if this topic have been covered before, but I just want to know why all US carriers have their 757 with overwing exits and other airlines don´t?
Is that a FAA regulation for US carriers to have the two overwing exits or is it that airlines can choose to have the exits over the wing or just the 4 doors on each side of the aircraft?

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BR715-A1-30
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:26 am

Not ALL US Carriers have Overwing Exits. NW has some with overwing, and some with the plug style. It is basically an airline's choice, and some have to do with the seating arrangement, while with others it is simply choice.
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:34 am

NW, US/HP & TZ have 757s with 8 doors on them instead of 6 doors & 4 window exits. TW's 757s were the same way.

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PanAm747
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:35 am

I believe overwing exits are a sign of ETOPS 757's. I flew an ancient but well-maintained America West model several years ago. After the trip, I discovered it was an ex-Eastern Airlines -225 model (N914AW, #38 off the line).

I sat in the emergency exit row (#9) - there were only two seats in this row. I asked the flight attendants about that, and they pointed out it is an overwing exit. I asked, "for ETOPS routes?". The flight attendant's eyes got big as she said, "uh, yeah!!". Not used to passengers knowing ANYTHING about the plane...
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usairways85
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:42 am

It's just a different configuration of the aircraft. That's just like AA and UA 763's only have 4 doors and 4 window exits while BA 763's have 8 doors and AF's old 763's had 8 doors as well
 
YYZA330
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:52 am

US Airways/America West, ATA, Hooters Air, Omni, American Airlines and North American are a few current US airlines I remember having all doors. Some Airlines have a mixed fleet like AA due to the TWA merger.

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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
I believe overwing exits are a sign of ETOPS 757's. I flew an ancient but well-maintained America West model several years ago. After the trip, I discovered it was an ex-Eastern Airlines -225 model (N914AW, #38 off the line).

I sat in the emergency exit row (#9) - there were only two seats in this row. I asked the flight attendants about that, and they pointed out it is an overwing exit. I asked, "for ETOPS routes?". The flight attendant's eyes got big as she said, "uh, yeah!!". Not used to passengers knowing ANYTHING about the plane...

Nah. It's just a customer option, it's not indicative of anything. For example, native AA 757s with overwing exits ARE NOT ETOPS certified, while the ex-TW four door birds were ETOPS certified at one time.
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:42 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 6):
Nah. It's just a customer option, it's not indicative of anything. For example, native AA 757s with overwing exits ARE NOT ETOPS certified, while the ex-TW four door birds were ETOPS certified at one time.

It is a customer option, but I believe that the option of window exits came later on in the production cycle. I can't remember exactly why, but I think they were preferred by one customer, and Boeing began to offer them. The first 757s all have the 8 exits I believe. (but I may be wrong here)
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coa747
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:22 am

Continental has a handful with the double Type III overwing hatches but most are the more popular config with type 1 doors of different sizes forward and aft of the wing.

Config 1
Big version: Width: 500 Height: 115 File size: 9kb


Config 2
Big version: Width: 500 Height: 117 File size: 10kb


[Edited 2006-06-05 18:24:24]
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
believe overwing exits are a sign of ETOPS 757's



Quoting YYZA330 (Reply 5):
US Airways/America West, ATA, Hooters Air, Omni, American Airlines and North American are a few current US airlines I remember having all doors. Some Airlines have a mixed fleet like AA due to the TWA merger

TZ's 752 do not have overwing exits, at least unless they have acquired more since I was furloughed and I know that has not happened.

There 753's do have overwing exits to satisfy the 90 second evacuation rule.

UA just blew and wing slide in-flight. That is pretty indicative of overwing exits unless it provides a slide for a door. That would be kind of unusual.

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 40kb


M
 
coa747
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:22 am

The FAA mandates that no seat can be more than 50 linear feet from an exit. The 90 second rule probably doesn't have much to do with the decision to outfit TZ's 757-300's with double Type III overwing hatches as the 90 second rule is a certification requriement only for the aircraft type and during this testing the FAA could have chosen to block off all of the overwing hatches as unusable. Remeber the FAA certification test involves using only half of the available exits. Door config is part of the option package. Some operators utulizes the second L2 door as the entry door instead of L1 in some instances which in both configs is the same size as the L1 door.

[Edited 2006-06-05 19:27:02]

[Edited 2006-06-05 19:34:55]
 
MaxQ2351
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
Config 2

I don't think I have ever seen a 757 configured in 2-3 seating!!!

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
I believe overwing exits are a sign of ETOPS 757's

This is partially correct. Not all overwing 757's are ETOPS, however they are the only type of 757-200 that can be certified for ETOPS.

NWA has two varieties of 757, the 5500 series with the type-2 exits, and the 5600 series with overwing exits. Only their 5600 757's can be certified to ETOPS because they have two independent fuel transfer valves, the 5500 series only has one. Part of ETOPS certification is that the aircraft either has:

A) A single permenantly open fuel transfer line between wings, or
B) Two independent fuel valve transfer lines between wings

Since their 5500 series only has the single x-fer valve, they can't be certified for ETOPS.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 10):
the decision to outfit TZ's 757-300's with double Type III overwing hatches

All 757-300's have double overwing hatches (total of 4). This isn't even an option. The -300 was designed to have 4 overwing exits plus the dual type-2 exits aft of the wing.

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jetjack74
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting BA747 (Thread starter):
Is that a FAA regulation for US carriers to have the two overwing exits or is it that airlines can choose to have the exits over the wing or just the 4 doors on each side of the aircraft?

SQ was the first carrier to order the 10 exit config, while the early 757 customers(BA, EA, RC, NW) ordered the 8 exit layout. But the number of exits have no bearing on the etops certification. They are mandated by the FAA/CAA to have an exit for every 60 passengers, and that the aircraft must be able to be evacuated in 90 seconds or less, to gain airworthiness certification. The only requirements for ETOPs in communication equipment, survival equipment, crew reliefs in the FD, and fuel/system requirements. If they don't have the sufficient number of these articles, then extended overwater ops aren't an option.

Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 11):
NWA has two varieties of 757, the 5500 series with the type-2 exits, and the 5600 series with overwing exits. Only their 5600 757's can be certified to ETOPS because they have two independent fuel transfer valves, the 5500 series only has one. Part of ETOPS certification is that the aircraft either has:

The 5500-series aircraft were ordered before the 757 was proposed as an overwater aircraft, which was one of the reasons the 757 was never equiped for overwater use by NW up until the last few years. The 5600-series aircraft, that were ordered in 1992, delivered in 1995-98, were also equiped with the option of adding the addition HF radios needed for ETOPs. But Max, not all of the 5600-series 757's are able to be ETOPs qualed, (the last 7). 5636-5649 are the only ones that were delivered with the partial ETOPs provisions. 5650-5657 were not. Can they be converted? Maybe. Will they, probably not. They can, however be used on the Interport-Asia, as these are not ETOPs routes.
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aa777223er
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 9):
UA just blew and wing slide in-flight. That is pretty indicative of overwing exits unless it provides a slide for a door. That would be kind of unusual.


I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. The slide being inside the cabin would indicate a type-II exit. The 757's with 4 overwing type-III exits have the slide housed in a compartment on the outside of the fuselage, it deploys off the back side of the wings. That pic doesn't look like a 757 interior to me??

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jetjack74
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:36 pm

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 9):
TZ's 752 do not have overwing exits, at least unless they have acquired more since I was furloughed and I know that has not happened.

They used to. For 5 years, they leased a pair of ex-SQ 752's, before they were sold to DL

Quoting AA777223ER (Reply 13):
That pic doesn't look like a 757 interior to me??

FYI:That's not a slide, it's a 65-man circular-raft.

Quoting AA777223ER (Reply 13):
That pic doesn't look like a 757 interior to me??

That's present interior supplied by Boeing
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GQfluffy
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:58 pm

A few photos for those of us who like pictures Big grin -

AA has both door types (overwing exits on original AA equipment, 8 dr on ex-TW birds)

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Wojdylo
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Photo © Sean Norman - t.dot photography



UA has overwing exits

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter



Same with DL

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Agustin Anaya



Looks like NW has both door types (which I didn't know...learn something new everyday)

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Allen Yao
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Photo © Tobias Werner



CO with overwing exits (can't seem to find any CO 8 dr 752s)

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joakim Ewenson



BA with 4 doors per side

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank Ennulat



US 8 door in both schemes

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kyle Donagher
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Photo © Carlos Aleman - SJU Aviation Photography



North American (don't know the abbreviation) 8 door

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Photo © David Marshall



SQ had window exits

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Rees



TZ had both types

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Je89 W.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



And I think we've all agreed that the 753 has both types of exits to meet code...
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ChiGB1973
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 10):
Type III overwing hatches as the 90 second rule is a certification requriement only for the aircraft type and during this testing the FAA could have chosen to block off all of the overwing hatches as unusable. Remeber the FAA certification test involves using only half of the available exits. Door config is part of the option package. Some operators utulizes the second L2 door as the entry door instead of L1 in some instances which in both configs is the same size as the L1 door.

Thanks for the correction. I forgot too, that the overwing exits are not to be used in a water "landing."

Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 11):
This is partially correct. Not all overwing 757's are ETOPS, however they are the only type of 757-200 that can be certified for ETOPS

TZ's were not to be used in a water ditch. And TZ's 752s are ETOPS certified and do not have overwing exits.

Quoting AA777223ER (Reply 13):
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. The slide being inside the cabin would indicate a type-II exit. The 757's with 4 overwing type-III exits have the slide housed in a compartment on the outside of the fuselage, it deploys off the back side of the wings. That pic doesn't look like a 757 interior to me??

It's not from that flight, just a picture I added that I thought was pretty cool. Guess I should have made that clear. I thought everyone knew the UA situation recently.

M
 
phllax
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 15):
CO with overwing exits (can't seem to find any CO 8 dr 752s)

CO's 752 fleet has the 10 door option
 
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
I believe overwing exits are a sign of ETOPS 757's.



Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 11):
This is partially correct. Not all overwing 757's are ETOPS, however they are the only type of 757-200 that can be certified for ETOPS.

Better tell US Airways quick as they've been sending their 757s over the atlantic for the past month or so. BA, Monarch, Thomas Cook, Air Transat all have or used to have ETOPS 757s without the over wing exits crossing the pond.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
Continental has a handful with the double Type III overwing hatches but most are the more popular config with type 1 doors of different sizes forward and aft of the wing.

All COs 757-200s have the overwing exits.
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 18):
All COs 757-200s have the overwing exits.

All 41 of them. The 757-300 has 8 door exits and 4 window exits.

I always wondered why CO took the option of the 757s with the window exits and not the door behind the wings.
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Crosswind
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
I believe overwing exits are a sign of ETOPS 757's. I flew an ancient but well-maintained America West model several years ago. After the trip, I discovered it was an ex-Eastern Airlines -225 model (N914AW, #38 off the line).

NEGATIVE. Exit config is no sign of ETOPS-capability one-way or the other, purely a customer option based on their own preferences.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
It is a customer option, but I believe that the option of window exits came later on in the production cycle. I can't remember exactly why, but I think they were preferred by one customer, and Boeing began to offer them. The first 757s all have the 8 exits I believe. (but I may be wrong here)

The option to have 2 overwing exits was available from the beginning, Delta was the first customer to specify this option. Their first 757 was line number 37, so was very early in the 757 production run.

Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 11):
This is partially correct. Not all overwing 757's are ETOPS, however they are the only type of 757-200 that can be certified for ETOPS.

Not true at all, the number/type of exits has no bearing on ETOPS capability.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 12):
SQ was the first carrier to order the 10 exit config, while the early 757 customers(BA, EA, RC, NW) ordered the 8 exit layout.

No Delta was the first customer to specify 2 overwing exits on their 757s when they placed their (then) record-breaking order for 60 757s in November 1980. It was nearly 3 years later when Singapore Airlines and Northwest placed their initial 757 orders, and nearly 5 years til Republic placed theirs!

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 12):
The 5500-series aircraft were ordered before the 757 was proposed as an overwater aircraft, which was one of the reasons the 757 was never equiped for overwater use by NW up until the last few years

The 757 was fully overwater-capable when Northwest placed their inital order in 1983, just Northwest chose not to configure their aircraft to take advantage of that. ETOPS is a separate issue, so are HF radios! Having dual HF radios was an option on the 757 from day one, but not having them doesn't prevent you from operating ETOPS sectors - for example if your ETOPS sector was overland as in parts of Africa and Asia HF radios may not be required. ETOPS capabilities came later, but again as it stands Northwest's 757-200 fleet are not ETOPS-capable because that's how Northwest wanted them.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 14):
FYI:That's not a slide, it's a 65-man circular-raft.

Quoting AA777223ER (Reply 13):
That pic doesn't look like a 757 interior to me??

That's present interior supplied by Boeing

The picture is of a North American B737-800, it did the rounds on the internet years ago!

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 16):
And TZ's 752s are ETOPS certified and do not have overwing exits.

But ATA's early PW-powered 757s had overwing exits and were ETOPS certified!

Regards
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 9):
UA just blew and wing slide in-flight. That is pretty indicative of overwing exits unless it provides a slide for a door. That would be kind of unusual.



Quoting AA777223ER (Reply 13):
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. The slide being inside the cabin would indicate a type-II exit. The 757's with 4 overwing type-III exits have the slide housed in a compartment on the outside of the fuselage, it deploys off the back side of the wings. That pic doesn't look like a 757 interior to me??

Look closer at the picture. It is not a slide. It's a life raft.  Smile
 
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:14 pm

Quoting Bohica (Reply 21):
Look closer at the picture. It is not a slide. It's a life raft.

You can see the boarding stations (the word "enter") stenciled on the right and left sides.
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GQfluffy
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Phllax (Reply 17):
CO's 752 fleet has the 10 door option

Read the quote further down in my post...

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 19):
I always wondered why CO took the option of the 757s with the window exits and not the door behind the wings.

I wonder why the 8 dr configuration on the 757 is more popular then the overwing exit config...

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 8):
Continental has a handful with the double Type III overwing hatches but most are the more popular config with type 1 doors of different sizes forward and aft of the wing.

Do you mean CO has both types? Or that the 8 dr config is more popular world wide?
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 15):
Looks like NW has both door types (which I didn't know...learn something new everyday)

The 757-200 5500 series are the older 757-200s, delivered in the late 80s
These have the Door exits
The 757-200 5600 series are the newer 757-200s, delivered in the late 90s
These have the window exits
The 757-300 are 5800 series, and are OW equipped.
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 3):
I believe overwing exits are a sign of ETOPS 757's.



Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 11):
This is partially correct. Not all overwing 757's are ETOPS, however they are the only type of 757-200 that can be certified for ETOPS.

Both wrong, sorry. The exits have nothing to do with ETOPS

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 19):
I always wondered why CO took the option of the 757s with the window exits and not the door behind the wings.

Probably because it fit their configuration the best.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 23):
I wonder why the 8 dr configuration on the 757 is more popular then the overwing exit config...

Probably because it allows for a higher capacity configuration
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Markhkg
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:28 pm

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 22):
You can see the boarding stations (the word "enter") stenciled on the right and left sides.

But slide/rafts also have the words "Board Here" stenciled into the boarding station too... (Yes, the photo is clearly a life raft...I'm just being difficult.  Wink )
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FrancoBlanco
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:39 am

According to www.757.org.uk the "4 door config" is certified for 239 pax, while the "overwing exit config" is certified for 224 pax. Although not many airlines fly 757s with that much seats, it is interesting to note that the door configuration may reflect the seating capacity.

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by738
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting FrancoBlanco (Reply 27):
According to www.757.org.uk the "4 door config" is certified for 239 pax, while the "overwing exit config" is certified for 224 pax. Although not many airlines fly 757s with that much seats, it is interesting to note that the door configuration may reflect the seating capacity

Hence the reason all UK charter airlines have the eight door config. Interestingly BY/TOM leased a 757 for a short while with 2 overwing exits.
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 15):
North American (don't know the abbreviation) 8 door

It's NA
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ChiGB1973
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RE: US 757 With Overwing Exits Why?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Bohica (Reply 21):
Look closer at the picture. It is not a slide. It's a life raft.



Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 16):
It's not from that flight, just a picture I added that I thought was pretty cool. Guess I should have made that clear. I thought everyone knew the UA situation recently.