User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 3805
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:21 pm

More on the recent report carried by FI on QRs plans on the A350 and the delay in development. Qatar Chief Executive Akbar Al Baker spoke in an interview today. The following is a fair use excerpt from Bloomberg

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conews&tkr=ba:US

``We're not going to wait forever,'' Qatar Chief Executive Akbar Al Baker said today in an interview at the International Air Transport Association meeting in Paris. ``If things don't happen in the timeframe we want to happen, then of course we'll look somewhere else.''

[snip]

``They've changed the rules of the game,'' Al Baker said, referring to Airbus. ``They now want to build a bigger airplane, with a larger capacity, a bigger cross section and they've not yet submitted to us or given us the proposal on what this airplane will do or when it will be delivered.''

[snip]

``We as an airline have a business plan. We need to grow. And when there are delays in deliveries, we have to then rethink our fleet strategy. If they don't have their game in order, then it is their problem.''

Airbus spokeswoman Barbara Kracht declined to comment on the Qatar CEO's remarks. ``We don't comment on our relations with customers,'' she said. Qatar Airways is the state-owned airline of the Persian Gulf country.

[END - Fair use excerpt]

I wonder what QR are thinking of letting go of their 2008 - 2009 B787 delivery slots now? Of interest is that he's spoken of the initial changes for the model though it appears no timeframe on specific's has been provided. This could also shorten the odds on QR being the 20 777 UFO order booked last week.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:30 pm

Well, I'd say that is a pretty specific warning to Airbus that they need to quit fooling around on the design and get things moving forward.

The comments Airbus made recently about "late customer input" about the A-350 design fiasco, and these comments from a large customer had better be sending alarm bells ringing throught Airbus HQ that something is terribly wrong and needs radical change.

This is the third time in as many months that we have seen very negative customer feedback IN PUBLIC directed at this program. First, ILFC. Second was GECAS. And now we have Qatar. Anybody see a pattern developing here??
One Nation Under God
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:31 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
I wonder what QR are thinking of letting go of their 2008 - 2009 B787 delivery slots now? Of interest is that he's spoken of the initial changes for the model though it appears no timeframe on specific's has been provided. This could also shorten the odds on QR being the 20 777 UFO order booked last week.

Given that QR is unhedged on fuel and that Airbus isn't offering a A346E, I wouldn't be surprised that that QR goes ahead with the 777.

As for going the 787 route, I think they will have to be really irked at Airbus to do so. It is a bit embarrassing for al Baker and company to have jumped on the A350 and then to have to have to change back to Boeing.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
I wonder what QR are thinking of letting go of their 2008 - 2009 B787 delivery slots now? Of interest is that he's spoken of the initial changes for the model though it appears no timeframe on specific's has been provided. This could also shorten the odds on QR being the 20 777 UFO order booked last week.

They are looking at the A350, that seems to be disappering so they go for the T7? Not at all likely.

Sorry
 
Flying Belgian
Posts: 1906
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2001 12:45 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:38 pm

It also shows how dependant of the Gulf Region both A & B are.

We all knew that QR's A350 order was artificial.

FB.
Life is great at 41.000 feet...
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:42 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
`They've changed the rules of the game,'' Al Baker said, referring to Airbus. ``They now want to build a bigger airplane, with a larger capacity, a bigger cross section and they've not yet submitted to us or given us the proposal on what this airplane will do or when it will be delivered.''

Al-Baker said last month:

“The trouble is, Airbus has lost a year.” He says he expects Airbus to be able to show him a firm specification for the new design “by early June.”

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...o+uncertainty+over+twinjet's.html

Perhaps they've already shown him something he doesn't like, his indignance seems marginally more vociferous than a couple of weeks ago?  Smile
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
starrion
Posts: 972
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:19 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:55 pm

Isn't it expected that QR would be left feeling a little embarassed? They committed to 60 widebody aircraft. That's a huge business call. A lot of people put their reputations on the dotted line and said "We think the A350 is the best aircraft for our airline." Then the industry leaders said that the A350 was not competitive with the 787. And Airbus agrees with them (not in so many words) and starts this redesign.

How much egg does that leave on the faces of the people at QR that opted for the "less-competitive" aircraft, especially after abandoning early slots for the "superior" aircraft. If I were them I would be more than "irked", I'd be steaming angry. The question is, do they go back to Boeing hat-in-hand and hope to get something (presuming that Boeing opens the second line) or do they stick with the latest iteration of the A350?

Not the best choices. If the Board at QR had any power, heads would be rolling.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
JAL
Posts: 3876
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 12:37 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:01 pm

Would love to see them order the 787!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 3):
They are looking at the A350, that seems to be disappering so they go for the T7? Not at all likely.

They had said they were going to buy at least 20 777LRs last summer, but Airbus talked them into reopening the competition by dangling fuel cost rebates/guarantees and/or the A346E earlier this year. If they are annoyed with Airbus, one way they can show it is to firm the 777 order.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1679
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:22 pm

Quoting Starrion (Reply 6):
They committed to 60 widebody aircraft.

Yes and no. They never signed a firm order and the statement from Paris last year "... up to 60 A350..." was ambiguous and suggested some combination of orders and options.

Quoting Starrion (Reply 6):
Isn't it expected that QR would be left feeling a little embarassed?

They will feel a lot more embarrassed if they spend several billion dollars on an aircraft that doesn't meet their needs, or if they have to drastically alter their fleet procurement schedule because of the additional two year delay in EIS.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 3805
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 3):
They are looking at the A350, that seems to be disappering so they go for the T7? Not at all likely.

Sorry

EbbUK My comment was in specific reference to Qatar's "imminent" decision as to whether they'll take 20 x A346HGW or 20 x 777 Series as they stated at Le Bourget 2005 and later retracted the 777 commitment. They have been publicly speaking of this order too, the A346HGWs being those which EK have deferred. QR need interim lift, because;

``We as an airline have a business plan. We need to grow. And when there are delays in deliveries, we have to then rethink our fleet strategy. If they don't have their game in order, then it is their problem.''

I feel they will most likely stay with Airbus for their interim requirements but one cannot deny that QRs public stance has hardened considerably and the 777 was never 100% out of the equation.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 4333
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:35 pm

I dont blame Qatar Airways considering cancelling its A350 order & going for B787's!
My opinion Airbus has really lost a lot of ground with this A350 and they know it too! Good luck to Airbus on securing the orders it currently has in its books for the proposed A350....

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Starrion (Reply 6):

Not the best choices. If the Board at QR had any power, heads would be rolling.

Because Airbus was dragged back to the drawing board, the QR board must pay the price for the re-design, not only in terms of the lost order but with their livelyhood as well? A bit steep old chap!

Quoting JAL (Reply 7):
Would love to see them order the 787!

No please no. 787 can go to Emirates, but please QR stay on the 'bus
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:11 am

In a nutshell, they're saying we don't need a 777 replacement, we need an A330/340 replacement.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 15):
Because Airbus was dragged back to the drawing board, the QR board must pay the price for the re-design, not only in terms of the lost order but with their livelyhood as well? A bit steep old chap!

He meant that if the board had any power they would fire someone in management who approved the A350 order. Not that the board would lose their jobs.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Starrion (Reply 6):
How much egg does that leave on the faces of the people at QR that opted for the "less-competitive" aircraft, especially after abandoning early slots for the "superior" aircraft. If I were them I would be more than "irked", I'd be steaming angry. The question is, do they go back to Boeing hat-in-hand and hope to get something (presuming that Boeing opens the second line) or do they stick with the latest iteration of the A350?

Al Baker wanted the aircraft in 2010. If Airbus commits to the re-design, then the only new-build aircraft he will be able to get by 2010 will be 767s, A330s, 748s, A340s, 777s...not A350s or 787s. In other words, he won't get the latest and greatest period. I can't see him going to Boeing on the 787; but that's just an opinion. I wouldn't be surprised to see Messrs Forgeard, Leahy, and Al Baker at a joint press conference at Farnborough this July talking about how they've put the "misunderstanding" behind them. QR may buy 777s but I seriously doubt they'll go for the 787. But that is only an (uninformed) opinion....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 17):
He meant that if the board had any power they would fire someone in management who approved the A350 order. Not that the board would lose their jobs.

No one at QR should pay the price for the Airbus re-design, surely?
 
mptpa
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:34 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 2):
As for going the 787 route, I think they will have to be really irked at Airbus to do so. It is a bit embarrassing for al Baker and company to have jumped on the A350 and then to have to have to change back to Boeing

Well, I do not think Mr. Al Bakar will be in an embarassing position, as he signed up for the Original A350, not the re-invented new design that the "others" seem to want Airbus to make. Hence, he can always say "I wanted an A350 as it was sized, in the time frame as it was stated. And now, everything is off whack therefore I need to look elsewhere".

This also lends credence to the fact they may be backtracking to take B777 as there is no A346E on the horizon. May be they should dump the A380 and go for a few B748i (could they be the UFO for the 3 B747 (I do not know if this is 744, 744F, 748F ir 748I).... Hmmmmm....
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 19):
No one at QR should pay the price for the Airbus re-design, surely?

They chose an aircraft that the rest of the airline industry trashed. In the process they gave up their early 787 slots, which other airlines, like QF, snatched up. Now their expansion plans are set back by the delay of whatever Airbus ends up offering, and 787 availability is backed up into 2011 for the most part unless Boeing opens up a 2nd line. And Airbus might not even offer a competitive model in the 200-270 pax capacity range to replace the previous A358 design. So the choice of the A350 will have a negative impact on QR's plans.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:30 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 20):
B777 as there is no A346E on the horizon

When would teh a370-1000 go into service? also 2012 or later. If it is 2012, then it shouyld not be that big of a problem, as the a346E was to enter service in 2011. And the a370-1000 will no doubt be a much more capable aircraft (less attractive probably, but that's a different issue  Wink )
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
PolymerPlane
Posts: 832
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 1:12 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:31 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 19):
No one at QR should pay the price for the Airbus re-design, surely?

No, but they are committing to a "fictitious" aircraft family, at a cost of throwing away early slots for a damn good airplane. That is a bad business decision IMO. Granted I am saying this after the fact that QR might drop A350 for B787 because of the timeline. But a lot of punishment in business world is after the fact. You do not get forgiveness because you did not know about it earlier. You just pay the price of making wrong decision.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
mptpa
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:34 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting Starrion (Reply 6):
Isn't it expected that QR would be left feeling a little embarassed? They committed to 60 widebody aircraft. That's a huge business call. A lot of people put their reputations on the dotted line and said "We think the A350 is the best aircraft for our airline." Then the industry leaders said that the A350 was not competitive with the 787. And Airbus agrees with them (not in so many words) and starts this redesign.

Perhaps they got a SWEET deal (read as 50% off extraordinary launch customer as Airbus had no really big carrier ordering A350 at that time, and they needed much needed press) to sign up based on preliminary details, hence, it was an LOI, not order or commitment.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
Yes and no. They never signed a firm order and the statement from Paris last year "... up to 60 A350..." was ambiguous and suggested some combination of orders and options.

They said "upto 60" even though Airbus put in as "60" in absolute terms, and June is here again!!

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 18):
Al Baker wanted the aircraft in 2010. If Airbus commits to the re-design, then the only new-build aircraft he will be able to get by 2010 will be 767s, A330s, 748s, A340s, 777s...not A350s or 787s. In other words, he won't get the latest and greatest period. I can't see him going to Boeing on the 787; but that's just an opinion.

Perhaps, Boeing is leaning towards getting all the ducks in a row to open up a second line sooner than noted many... Perhaps, they will have dual lines by 2009/2010 hence QR can get a few 787s before 2010. Or, Boeing is releasing some slots held for special purposes (read as "carrots" to entice new entrants such as EK, SQ, LH etc.)

I am just speculating here.
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 20):
Well, I do not think Mr. Al Bakar will be in an embarassing position, as he signed up for the Original A350, not the re-invented new design that the "others" seem to want Airbus to make.

As I have said before, he ordered an aircraft that was trashed publically by airlines and lessors. That's embarassing.

Also Leahy sweet talked him into selecting a large number A350s to order, and there is speculation that Leahy (and other Airbus execs possibliy) put Udvar-Hazy upto trashing the A350. That would make relations somewhat difficult.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 22):
When would teh a370-1000 go into service? also 2012 or later. If it is 2012, then it shouyld not be that big of a problem, as the a346E was to enter service in 2011. And the a370-1000 will no doubt be a much more capable aircraft (less attractive probably, but that's a different issue   )

The largest model was rumored to have an EIS of 2014. The middle model (300 pax) 2012. The smallest model somewhere in between (though I am skeptical about its viability).
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 3805
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 24):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
Yes and no. They never signed a firm order and the statement from Paris last year "... up to 60 A350..." was ambiguous and suggested some combination of orders and options.

They said "upto 60" even though Airbus put in as "60" in absolute terms, and June is here again!!

Mptpa Please do not attribute that quote to me sir as I did not nor have I questioned the number of A350s QR commited to in this thread. Please check your quote text function  Smile

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23197
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:53 am

It seems (at least to me) to be reasonable that with the A350 allowing growth on the lower end of the widebody market, QR would choose the A346HGW for growth on the higher end as it offered some levels of commonality.

Now that the A350 seems to be cancelled and the A370 will appears not to offer a plane on the lower end of the widebody market, QR may feel they have no real choice but to take the 787 to fill that need (should they feel A330s would put them at a disadvantage to 787-operating competitors). If that is indeed the case, then it also seems reasonable (again, at least to me) that they would decide on the 773ER for the same reasons.
 
Zeus419
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:04 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:50 am

Folks, earlier on in this thread in a post by Starrion, he made a point:-

"Not the best choices. If the Board at QR had any power, heads would be rolling. . . "

. . and I replied with some harmless British satire with:-

"So are you suggesting Sharia Law be applied?  Yeah sure "
(Note the little smilie attached)

Now, incredibly, I just received a notification from the censors on this board that the comment was removed because it "might offend".

What? Offend?! Are you serious?

I bet if the joke was related to any other religion, it would have stayed there intact! What are you people frightened of? (And I didn’t even mention any religion!)

Lighten-up folks. If we can’t make harmless jokes (on this board or anywhere else), then what is the world coming to? Shame on the "thought-police" here, and the cowards who can’t take some harmless satire.

Zeus.
 
kappel
Posts: 1836
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:48 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Zeus419 (Reply 25):
What? Offend?! Are you serious?

I bet if the joke was related to any other religion, it would have stayed there intact! What are you people frightened of? (And I didn’t even mention any religion!)

Lighten-up folks. If we can’t make harmless jokes (on this board or anywhere else), then what is the world coming to? Shame on the "thought-police" here, and the cowards who can’t take some harmless satire.

Zeus.

I read that comment indeed, and even though I am usually a bit sensitive concerning muslim comments, I did chuckle when reading your joke. I thought it was harmless. But I know, I also find the mods sometimes a bit too sensitive.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 22):
The largest model was rumored to have an EIS of 2014. The middle model (300 pax) 2012. The smallest model somewhere in between (though I am skeptical about its viability).

OK, three years is a bit much. The tough part is, what will happen to the value of the a346? QR is now receiving new a346's, but in 2014 those will be very unattractive, because not only is the 773 more efficient, now also the a370-1000. The a332 will IMHO not loose that much of it's value, because it is usually the better choice compaired to the other existing choice, the 767.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
mptpa
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:34 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:40 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 19):
When would teh a370-1000 go into service? also 2012 or later. If it is 2012, then it shouyld not be that big of a problem, as the a346E was to enter service in 2011. And the a370-1000 will no doubt be a much more capable aircraft (less attractive probably, but that's a different issue Wink )

Well, this is what Airbus claims, and you know what their reputation has been in terms timeline. Basically, all manufacturers miss the dates one time of other for many reasons. But, Airbus has been in bad press lately on too many things at the same time, and that is bad PR. They really have a dilemma and it would be a perfect case study for Crisis Mgmt!!

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 23):
Mptpa Please do not attribute that quote to me sir as I did not nor have I questioned the number of A350s QR commited to in this thread. Please check your quote text function Smile

I am sorry if I implied that was your quote. No, that is what was reported as in the following: "up to 60 A350s and atleast 20 B777" in the context of QR announcement from Paris Airshow 2005. (And yes, I DO know how to use the text function!!)
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 22):
As I have said before, he ordered an aircraft that was trashed publically by airlines and lessors. That's embarassing.

Also Leahy sweet talked him into selecting a large number A350s to order, and there is speculation that Leahy (and other Airbus execs possibliy) put Udvar-Hazy upto trashing the A350. That would make relations somewhat difficult.

this is quite outrageous and deliberately inflammatory.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 28):
Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 22):
As I have said before, he ordered an aircraft that was trashed publically by airlines and lessors. That's embarassing.

Also Leahy sweet talked him into selecting a large number A350s to order, and there is speculation that Leahy (and other Airbus execs possibliy) put Udvar-Hazy upto trashing the A350. That would make relations somewhat difficult.

this is quite outrageous and deliberately inflammatory.

And quite true.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 29):
And quite true.

another one.

the last time i reacted to other comments such as these, I got a 200 day suspension (reduced on appeal). I am biting my lip. but don't push me cause i am close to the edge...
 
redflyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:30 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 18):
and 787 availability is backed up into 2011 for the most part unless Boeing opens up a 2nd line.

I wonder if Boeing's decision on that 2nd line, which they stated was due to be made early this month, will be contingent on Qatar going with the 787?
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:19 am

Wow... Didn't see this coming. Thought no matter what QR was going Airbus. It sounds from the article that Mr. Akbar Al Baker is dead serious about Airbus showing something other than talk and cocktail napkin drawings and ideas. If Airbus does change the design does the change the cost for the carriers that have stated they want to A350 or whatever the helll it's called now (A370)???
Who did QR 787 slots go to? Bet they are pissed they didnt hang onto them.  Angry
Thanks PanAm_DC10 again, more good info like always.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
SoBe
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:11 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 30):
don't push me cause i am close to the edge...

Lighten up, Francis
Big version: Width: 151 Height: 120 File size: 4kb
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:39 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 32):
Who did QR 787 slots go to? Bet they are pissed they didnt hang onto them.

those slots went to QF and was one of many factors of QF's decision to go with the 787's
"Up the Irons!"
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 30):
the last time i reacted to other comments such as these, I got a 200 day suspension (reduced on appeal). I am biting my lip. but don't push me cause i am close to the edge...

Well you have to face the painful truth at one point.      

[Edited 2006-06-06 03:42:56]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 32):
Wow... Didn't see this coming. Thought no matter what QR was going Airbus. It sounds from the article that Mr. Akbar Al Baker is dead serious about Airbus showing something other than talk and cocktail napkin drawings and ideas. If Airbus does change the design does the change the cost for the carriers that have stated they want to A350 or whatever the helll it's called now (A370)???

It would make no sense to the Airbus dominated business line to convert to the 787 and wait a long time for the A/C (that is if no 2nd line is opened). I think this is more of a firm pressure push on Airbus to make it clear that Qatar wants answers and fast.
 
F22KA
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:34 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:02 pm

Aye EbbUK,

are you "shua" you aren't an eastern european soul wandering on British land? your way of thinking , which abounds here, is what keeps us behind EU.

If QR is led by logical business people, I would not be surprised to see them swallow their pride and go with a Boeing product. (777 or 787)
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting F22KA (Reply 37):

If QR is led by logical business people, I would not be surprised to see them swallow their pride and go with a Boeing product. (777 or 787)

There is a simple logical answer, the 787 cannot be all the plane to all the airlines in the world. QR and other successful airlines have discovered that and have ordered or are waiting to order the Airbus offering. Rightly so.

Nothing East or West about it mon ami
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23197
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting Airbus3801 (Reply 36):
It would make no sense to the Airbus dominated business line to convert to the 787 and wait a long time for the A/C (that is if no 2nd line is opened).

But if QR wants a widebody on the lower-end of the size scale, no matter how long they wait, no A370 meeting those specs will ever appear if what we believe to be the sizes Airbus is aiming for are true. Yes, the A330 will be an option if they do indeed desire or decide to stay with Airbus, but doing so may put them at a disadvantage to competitors flying 787s.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 38):
There is a simple logical answer, the 787 cannot be all the plane to all the airlines in the world. QR and other successful airlines have discovered that and have ordered or are waiting to order the Airbus offering. Rightly so.

Very true, but if what they saw as beneficial in the A350 is not available in the A370, then they need to decide if the A330 will work for them, or if competitive or performance issues will direct them to the 787.
 
Ken777
Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:23 am

I believe that QR is waiting to see the answers to several important questions. The first will be the status of the 350 program. Is it going to continue and go against the smaller 787s? It's a large R&D expense to write off and I have no doubts that Airbus has already completed some rather good engineering on it so I'm not ready to write it off yet. It the 350 is delivered as advertised then QR may well go with it for initial deliveries, but not at the 60 frames level.

Then there is the design and performance of the 370 to look at, and determine how it will fit into their fleet. If QR likes it, regardless of the delays, then I can see it joining their fleet, especially with the pricing they will push for.

On the 787 side I believe the issue of increased production will be at the top of the list of questions. If Boeing does increase production (my bet is that they will) then all of a sudden there will be more than a few slots opened up - and more than a few airlines lining up to get them. QR pretty well knows the planes and I believe that open slots will look pretty good to them, putting the 787 in a fair, open competition, especially if the 350 doesn't go forward.

I believe that the 777 will stand on its own. If it makes a good business case after the 370 is presented to QR then I can see an order that will meet their needs at a point in time that they need them.

The basic issue that needs to be addressed first is the fate of the 350.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Qatar Airways May Drop A350 For B787

Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:44 am

The chickens have now come home to roost at an airline that was silly enough to "order" an airliner that wasn't finalized and was designed to meet a singular customers needs. Now Airbus changed it to try to broaden apeal to a wider customer base and Qatar doesn't like what it is hearing about the 4th version of the airplane.

Then Airbus goes on the record as saying the development problems are due to "late input from customers".

Now the original large customer (Qatar) says they had better come up with something good or else.

I smell a 787-8/9 order...
One Nation Under God