atrude777
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Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:17 am

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....l-newsArticle&ID=868695&highlight=

The new service breaks down as follows:

Beginning July 17, 2006
* One new daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Denver and Houston
Hobby. Fares begin as low as $79 one-way (see fare rules below).
* One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Denver and
Baltimore/Washington (for a total of two daily).
* One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Denver and
Chicago Midway (for a total of five daily).
* One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Denver and
Phoenix (for a total of six daily).
* One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Houston Hobby and
Tampa Bay (for a total of three daily).

Beginning August 4, 2006
* Four new daily nonstop roundtrip flights between Denver and Kansas
City. Fares begin as low as $59 one-way (see fare rules below).
* One new daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Denver and Orlando.
Fares begin as low as $99 one-way (see fare rules below).
* One new daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Denver and Nashville.
Fares begin as low as $89 one-way (see fare rules below).
* One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Denver and Las
Vegas (for a total of seven daily).
* One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Denver and
Houston Hobby (for a total of two daily).

Beginning August 17, 2006
* One new daily nonstop flight between Baltimore/Washington and Oakland.
Fares begin as low as $99 one-way. $99 fare available for nonstop
flight only and must be purchased by Aug. 17, 2006. See additional fare
rules below.
* One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Boise and Oakland
(for a total of two daily).

The good news is STL-DEN is now bookable (it wasn't before) through MCI.

Alex

[Edited 2006-06-05 17:18:25]
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:22 am

Great news. I was hoping for STL-DEN nonstop, but via MCI works for me (for now).
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
atrude777
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
Great news. I was hoping for STL-DEN nonstop, but via MCI works for me (for now).

So was I, but we have 3 airlines on it already flying it non-stop, American, United and Frontier Airlines, I would be shocked to see WN put it non stop so early, connecting is good enough for me though I hope MCI has changed enough.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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casinterest
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:35 am

Well here goes Southwest on it's ever expanding network.
Sounds like they have their sites on Denver for expanding this summer. Looks to be fairly popular among their flyers.

Are they stimulating extra demand, or are they starting to win customers from the other carriers on these routes?
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
n471wn
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:43 am

Cannot believe we did not get our hoped for daily OAK-DIA serivice
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:01 am

Sounds as if they are doing quite well there in Denver! Thats good since they need a few more places to put all those shiney new 737's they keep getting!
One Nation Under God
 
ScottB
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 3):
Are they stimulating extra demand, or are they starting to win customers from the other carriers on these routes?

Judging from the traffic numbers on Southwest and the competition on the routes they've added, it seems to be mostly extra demand, though they've likely picked up people who had been flying UA/F9/HP/AA/DL since Southwest hadn't offered service to Denver before.

Quoting Dbba (Reply 4):
Cannot believe we did not get our hoped for daily OAK-DIA serivice

I'm surprised not to see DEN-OAK as well as DEN-ABQ and DEN-LAX, though lack of available gates at both OAK and LAX may be keeping them from adding non-stop flights in those markets (and yes, I see they are adding 2 flights at OAK in August). They probably need at least four or five daily non-stop round-trips in each of those markets to be really competitive with the incumbents.

I'm a little bit surprised to not see connecting service offered from DEN via HOU to AUS and SAT, even though it's a bit of a back-track. They seem to be building up frequency to PHX, LAS, and MDW to offer more competitive schedules.
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:26 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 1):
hoping for STL-DEN nonstop, but via MCI works for me

Just curious how many people would take a one-stop to STL when the non-stop is only one hour and offered by three airlines. How much lower would the fare need to be to make someone take that routing?
 
jacobin777
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:30 am

this will put a lot of pressure on F9 and UA....The Boyd Group has been mentioning for quite some time that WN has F9 and UA on their crosshairs in DEN....lets see how UA and F9 respond...
"Up the Irons!"
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
lets see how UA and F9 respond

I think UA has already responded by adding over 20 mainline flights a day (plus more UAX flights) and running promotions like "Denver, You Mean The World To Us" that give Denver residents special deals and fast-tracks to free tickets around the world.

[Edited 2006-06-05 19:42:21]
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:40 am

Is it just me or does WN seem to be closing in on F9? It seems that unless F9 does something in the next year or so of de-hubbing or diversifying their routes with either focus cities or p-2-p they are going to be in serious trouble. I doubt seriously they have the $ in the bank to go head to head with WN for the long run. UA's size will help them but F9 has only gate space going for it right now and better do what it can to limit WN's expansion on the gates there in DEN.

In a utopia they could both exist but Denver is not Utopia and I believe there is only room for one LCC in DEN. We shall see.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
Cactus739
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:43 am

What timing....right as I opened this thread I got a gmail popup about a new email from Southwest... "personalized" for me telling me about the additional Phoenix flight....
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
stl1326
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 7):
Just curious how many people would take a one-stop to STL when the non-stop is only one hour and offered by three airlines. How much lower would the fare need to be to make someone take that routing?

I know I would not take southwest through MCI to DEN. From what I read on here MCI is the worst place to connect at. I would rather fly AA non-stop or Frontier.

[Edited 2006-06-05 19:52:42]
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Stl1326 (Reply 12):


From what I read on hear MCI is the worst place to connect at.

Not the worst by far. Some connections involve reclearing security as not all gates are linked behind a common security area. It's not THAT bad. Lines aren't that long as security serves only 4-6 gates (approx).
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
ScottB
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 7):
Just curious how many people would take a one-stop to STL when the non-stop is only one hour and offered by three airlines. How much lower would the fare need to be to make someone take that routing?

Two hours, actually. If you don't like flying on Barbie's Dream Jet, that cuts out all of the AA-coded flights as well as four of UA's six daily frequencies. The refundable walk-up fare WN is currently around $460 round-trip; the lowest refundable coach fare on UA for tomorrow is $780 round-trip.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
The Boyd Group has been mentioning for quite some time that WN has F9 and UA on their crosshairs in DEN....lets see how UA and F9 respond

It's somewhat interesting that Southwest is building up at DEN and adding IAD, not to mention the ongoing growth at MDW. I wonder if Southwest has set its sights directly on United, rather than on Frontier as some have speculated. Perhaps it's a bit of payback for United Shuttle back in the late '90s.
 
atrude777
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 7):
Just curious how many people would take a one-stop to STL when the non-stop is only one hour and offered by three airlines. How much lower would the fare need to be to make someone take that routing?

Well just taking a look around it seems to be 330 dollars give or take a few dollars between American, United and Frontier.

I refuse to ride RJ's so axe out AA, and UA, except 2 flights, and then I'd buy F9 even so they are pretty expensive.

Quoting Stl1326 (Reply 12):
I know I would not take southwest through MCI to DEN. From what I read on here MCI is the worst place to connect at. I would rather fly AA non-stop or Frontier.

I have connected through MCI on WN and it isn't that bad now, big improvement, yes I had to go through security again but really it wasn't bad at all. Certainly not my first choice to change through but not bad.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):

Two hours, actually. If you don't like flying on Barbie's Dream Jet, that cuts out all of the AA-coded flights as well as four of UA's six daily frequencies. The refundable walk-up fare WN is currently around $460 round-trip; the lowest refundable coach fare on UA for tomorrow is $780 round-trip.

I'll be flying WN then  Wink

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
N702ML
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 7):
Just curious how many people would take a one-stop to STL when the non-stop is only one hour and offered by three airlines.

Westbound STL-DEN runs an average of 2 hours, 20 minutes nonstop.

Eastbound DEN-STL runs an average of 2 hours, 5 minutes nonstop.
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Southwest Airlines.
 
mattnrsa
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
I wonder if Southwest has set its sights directly on United, rather than on Frontier

I think Mike Boyd summed it up best when he said Southwest is chasing the revenue. Their cost advantage is not what it used to be (especially as fuel hedges start to run out), so they're expanding in areas that still have relatively strong fares. The US is only so big, and, with all the new planes WN has coming online, it's only a matter of time before they have a presence at most legacy hubs. UA has already been competing with WN at all of its hubs (except DEN) for many years through WN's presence at OAK/SJC(SFO), LAX/BUR/SNA/ONT(LAX), MDW(ORD), and BWI (IAD).

With Independence Air gone from IAD, it was only a matter of time before someone else came in. I'm sure UA would rather have WN at IAD than DH operating hundreds of flights and rock-bottom, below-cost fares.

I think WN's expansion makes it harder for LCC's to expand and start new services as WN plugs in the holes in its route map.
 
ArtieFufkin
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting DeltaDawg (Reply 10):
Is it just me or does WN seem to be closing in on F9?

I think I read that F9 increased market share in DEN more so than WN added all together. So far.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Thread starter):
Beginning August 17, 2006
* One new daily nonstop flight between Baltimore/Washington and Oakland.
Fares begin as low as $99 one-way. $99 fare available for nonstop
flight only and must be purchased by Aug. 17, 2006. See additional fare
rules below.
* One additional daily nonstop roundtrip flight between Boise and Oakland
(for a total of two daily).

The OAK-BWI route was kind of a surprise to me, considering the fact that WN once had a Sat-only RT on OAK-BWI for a short time. It's good to see that OAK is becoming to be a more significant asset to WN. I would guess the 2nd BOI-OAK is for better connections to ATA.

Quoting Dbba (Reply 4):
Cannot believe we did not get our hoped for daily OAK-DIA serivice

I was kind of surprised not to see OAK-DEN RT, especially with good ATA connections. But that might come to fruition when the T2 expansion is opened.

Could we see OAK-IAD in the not-too-distant future? That would definitely give UA and B6 a run for their money.
 
Rottamo
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 7):
Just curious how many people would take a one-stop to STL when the non-stop is only one hour and offered by three airlines. How much lower would the fare need to be to make someone take that routing?

According to Dot average fare on STL-DEV route is $188 and average fare of Frontier is $170. It seems that Southwest offers routes that are same lenght (770 miles) usually something around $131 (average).

origin destination lenght average fare
Austin, TX Nashville, TN 756 $153
Amarillo, TX Las Vegas, NV 758 $136
Nashville, TN West Palm Beach, FL 758 $123
Chicago, IL Islip/Long Island, NY 773 $122
Las Vegas, NV Lubbock, TX 775 $134
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Norfolk, VA 781 $111
Albuquerque, NM Reno, NV 787 $168
Baltimore, MD Orlando/Kissimmee, FL 787 $96
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Nashville, TN 793 $123
Las Vegas, NV Midland/Odessa, TX 796 $140


Source: DOT Q3/2005

So there isn't room for much lower fares.


Because Southwest is very good at short routes following routes are quite potential for them:

Denver, CO - Omaha, NE
daily passengers 410
average fare $166
lenght: 472
Largest market share: F9
Potential southwest average: $100-$120

Albuquerque, NM - Denver, CO
daily passengers 373
average fare $190
lenght: 349
Largest market share: F9
Potential southwest average: $90-$110

Denver, CO - Oklahoma City, OK
daily passengers 268
average fare $181
lenght: 495
Largest market share: UA
Potential southwest average: $100-$120

Potential numbers are based on Q3/2005 Dot data and routes of similar lenght.


Rottamo
 
DIA
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:31 am

11 nonstop routes from DEN. How many by the end of next year? Double? You laugh, but it seems to me SWA has found a new pot of gold...planned or not.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:41 am

I was rather shocked that PHL was not anounced, but I can answer why they did not offer PHL service in a few words: Frontier, United, US Airways...

Quoting DeltaDawg (Reply 10):
It seems that unless F9 does something in the next year or so of de-hubbing or diversifying their routes with either focus cities or p-2-p they are going to be in serious trouble.

Where do you think that F9 could operate focus cities at? Does F9 really want to do that? I think that they are doing fine. Sure, they're not making the kinds of profit like WN is, but they are not in danger of being liquidated or anything of the sort. They are expanding their network, but very slowly.

Personally, I am still waiting for F9 to anounce PIT service, but I don't think anything like that will happen at least for another year or so. If WN anounces DEN service, then we can forget about F9 coming to PIT anytime soon. I don't even see WN doing PIT-DEN anytime soon either; PIT is still fairly new for WN and it's not a very strong market for WN to expand either, not like PHL...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Rottamo
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
I am still waiting for F9 to anounce PIT service,

Denver, CO - Philadelphia, PA
daily passengers 1,054
average fare $204
lenght: 1,557
Largest market share: UA
Frontier's fare is $179, which is quite competitive.

Denver, CO - Pittsburgh, PA
daily passengers 386
average fare $210
lenght: 1,290
Largest market share: UA

And these are old numbers. WN offers some connections which should affect to current fare level.

Rottamo

[Edited 2006-06-05 21:02:57]
 
jacobin777
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting Mattnrsa (Reply 9):
I think UA has already responded by adding over 20 mainline flights a day (plus more UAX flights) and running promotions like "Denver, You Mean The World To Us" that give Denver residents special deals and fast-tracks to free tickets around the world.

interesting..thanks for the update  checkmark 

however, this seems like it might be the beginning of a price war..something which UA might not be able to sustain, and one thing for sure, WN doesn't back down too easliy...

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
It's somewhat interesting that Southwest is building up at DEN and adding IAD, not to mention the ongoing growth at MDW. I wonder if Southwest has set its sights directly on United, rather than on Frontier as some have speculated. Perhaps it's a bit of payback for United Shuttle back in the late '90s.

UA doesn't really have too much of a presence @ MDW anyway, so it doesn't affect them all too much......according to the Boyd Group, WN has been adding IAD to protect some of their "turf" in that particular region..

I think the next 6-12 months will be telling...

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 15):

I refuse to ride RJ's so axe out AA, and UA, except 2 flights, and then I'd buy F9 even so they are pretty expensive.

just curious as to why you refuse to ride the "Jungle-Jets"..I just flew on one just the other day from LAX-SJC...it was perfectly fine for me...as long as it wasnt longer than 2-3 hours.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
steeler83
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Rottamo (Reply 23):
And these are old numbers. WN offers some connections which should affect to current fare level.

Well then it looks like that F9 and WN do not need to offer PIT-DEN service if that is the case. I suppose they think that they won't be gaining a whole lot if anything out of doing that...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
airfrnt
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting DeltaDawg (Reply 10):
Is it just me or does WN seem to be closing in on F9? It seems that unless F9 does something in the next year or so of de-hubbing or diversifying their routes with either focus cities or p-2-p they are going to be in serious trouble. I doubt seriously they have the $ in the bank to go head to head with WN for the long run. UA's size will help them but F9 has only gate space going for it right now and better do what it can to limit WN's expansion on the gates there in DEN.

Actually, Gate space is still a issue, it will be less of a issue shortly when UA starts giving up A Concourse gates.

As far as F9 going head to head with WN, F9 is doing quite well in terms of load factors. Their RASM isn't real great right now, but the vacation market should help that signficantly. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater for F9.
 
nosedive
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 21):
11 nonstop routes from DEN. How many by the end of next year? Double? You laugh, but it seems to me SWA has found a new pot of gold...planned or not.

WN is "said" up to 60 flights.

As for F9, their yearly loss was much less than many had predicted, and Potter seems to be excited about his LFs for the summer. More gates over the next year will help, and I'd expect to see some more north of the border flying if YYC is doing well
 
DIA
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:19 am

"And last week, a financial analyst has downgraded shares of competitor Frontier Airlines, saying, "We believe expansion plans in Denver are aggressive and that Southwest capacity will more than triple in the next two years."

That move coincided with Southwest's purchase order for 79 Boeing 737-700's and a billion-dollar commitment to buy CFM egines for those aircraft."


Wow. That's big...and interesting. Thanks for the link Nosedive.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
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mariner
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:30 am

Interesting day. It seems that no one bothered to tell Wall Street what SWA is up to - or no one on Wall Street read the press release.

After the first two announcements of SWA service at DEN, the Frontier stock (FRNT) toook a mighty walloping, first on the day of the annoucnement, and then again on the day service started.

Today? It was the total blahs. The stock finished down two whole pennies and had even been up a few pennies after the announcement.

And this was on a day when crude oil went rollicking over $73 a barrel.

I don't know what it means - or if it means anything. There may be a delayed reaction, the stock may take a hit tomorrow - but then that may be for other reasons.

What it suggests is that the fears of Southwest, the BogeyMan, have been allayed a little bit.

Quoting DeltaDawg (Reply 10):
It seems that unless F9 does something in the next year or so of de-hubbing or diversifying their routes with either focus cities or p-2-p they are going to be in serious trouble.

Why should they run away? Southwest is the intruder here. If Frontier runs from Southwest at DEN, eventually they will run out of places to run to.

And if Southwest is determined to kill a small airline, nothing can stop them.

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 27):
and I'd expect to see some more north of the border flying if YYC is doing well

I'm told that YYC is good but not great, but yes, I excpect more Canada service.

The miracle is Mexico, even at this time of the year. Travelocity doesn't even bother to offer DEN-CZM for the rest of this month, for example, and DEN-CUN is doing damn well - especially as we are now out of season.

MCI will get another CUN frequency in November and DEN-CZM goes up to 3 x weekly.

Now, if the DOT would just decide about LAX-SJD - in Frontier's favor.  Smile

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
DIA
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 29):
Why should they run away? Southwest is the intruder here. If Frontier runs from Southwest at DEN, eventually they will run out of places to run to.

F9 is going ahead with business, SWA or not. With the recent A318 and A320 purchases, I see those as a "positive" stability (or frame of mind) sign...
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 30):
With the recent A318 and A320 purchases, I see those as a "positive" stability (or frame of mind) sign...

A320s yes, but those A318s will look mighty unattractive up against anything in WN colors, with the possible exception of the fellow pig-with-wings 737-500.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
UA doesn't really have too much of a presence @ MDW anyway, so it doesn't affect them all too much......according to the Boyd Group, WN has been adding IAD to protect some of their "turf" in that particular region..

I believe they were considering the whole Chicagoland area, not just MDW specifically.

[Edited 2006-06-05 23:03:53]
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
chris133
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
but I can answer why they did not offer PHL service in a few words

The actual word would be gate space until the construction is completed.
 
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mariner
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 30):
With the recent A318 and A320 purchases, I see those as a "positive" stability (or frame of mind) sign...

Yes, and how pleased am I to see those additional A318's. They'll be terrific to develop some more Mexico service to the less visited places, especially given Fonatur's plans.

Though I must say, I am surprised that Copper Canyon is so high on Fonatur's list. I wonder which airport would they use, Chihuahua or Los Mochis?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ScottB
Posts: 5413
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 29):
Today? It was the total blahs. The stock finished down two whole pennies and had even been up a few pennies after the announcement.

...

What it suggests is that the fears of Southwest, the BogeyMan, have been allayed a little bit.

Agreed. I'm of the opinion that the effects of Southwest at DEN and $70/bbl oil are already priced into the stock. Besides, FRNT is already trading for less than book value per share -- so there had been some pessimism reflected in the share price. Management's projections of a 2Q profit also point to Frontier having figured out how to adapt to Southwest's presence at DEN. At this juncture, I expect that the market performance of FRNT will be driven by the company's financial reports/projections and the price of oil.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 22):
I was rather shocked that PHL was not anounced, but I can answer why they did not offer PHL service in a few words: Frontier, United, US Airways...

Except that "Frontier, United, US Airways..." didn't keep them out of DEN-PHX or DEN-LAS. In any event, aside from SLC (which is a typical WN dense short-haul route), every station so far with non-stop service from DEN is in Southwest's top twelve cities. DEN-PHL is a big enough market that we'll see it added eventually.

Sorry about the formatting, but these are the O&D numbers for DEN markets in 3Q05 that were Nashville-sized or larger (choosing BNA as the cut-off since it was announced today):

Denver, CO New York, NY 2968.8
Denver, CO Chicago, IL 2814.34
Denver, CO Minneapolis/St.Paul, MN 2156.73
Denver, CO Los Angeles, CA 2087.39
Denver, CO Washington, DC 1842.5
Denver, CO Phoenix, AZ 1725.32
Denver, CO San Francisco, CA 1620.86
Denver, CO Seattle, WA 1609.02
Denver, CO Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX 1568.26
Denver, CO Las Vegas, NV 1564.78
Denver, CO Boston, MA 1485.86
Denver, CO Atlanta, GA 1443.69
Denver, CO Houston, TX 1263.8
Denver, CO San Diego, CA 1132.82
Denver, CO Philadelphia, PA 1053.69
Denver, CO Portland, OR 1009.13
Denver, CO Santa Ana, CA 936.41
Denver, CO Orlando/Kissimmee, FL 927.06
Denver, CO Detroit, MI 798.91
Denver, CO San Jose/Palo Alto, CA 770.21
Denver, CO Kansas City, MO 768.15
Denver, CO Salt Lake City, UT 767.17
Denver, CO Baltimore, MD 717.6
Denver, CO Tampa/St. Petersburg/Lakeland, FL 619.89
Denver, CO Indianapolis, IN 619.78
Denver, CO Sacramento, CA 613.91
Denver, CO Milwaukee, WI 576.19
Denver, CO Ontario, CA 565.54
Denver, CO St. Louis, MO 494.56
Denver, CO Ft. Lauderdale, FL 486.52
Denver, CO Austin, TX 460.97
Denver, CO Omaha, NE 409.67
Denver, CO Oakland/Berkeley, CA 404.45
Denver, CO Raleigh/Durham, NC 392.82
Denver, CO Pittsburgh, PA 385.86
Denver, CO Reno, NV 374.67
Denver, CO Nashville, TN 372.6

This should probably give a good indication of where WN might add flights from DEN in future...
 
jacobin777
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 29):
Interesting day. It seems that no one bothered to tell Wall Street what SWA is up to - or no one on Wall Street read the press release.



Quoting Mariner (Reply 29):
What it suggests is that the fears of Southwest, the BogeyMan, have been allayed a little bit.

I'm not so sure about that Mariner...after looking at these charts, I don't see "The Street" too sanguine about F9....its on a long-term "downtrend"...that usually doesn't bode well....of course, if the company does well the stock will certainly turn around..which I hope it does, but as an investor, until I see better, as well as more consistent numbers, I don't think I would put any money into F9's stock right now..especially when comparing it to other companies in the aviation industry..






Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 32):

I believe they were considering the whole Chicagoland area, not just MDW specifically.

ok..thanks.. thumbsup 
"Up the Irons!"
 
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mariner
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:27 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
I'm not so sure about that Mariner...after looking at these charts, I don't see "The Street" too sanguine about F9....its on a long-term "downtrend"

Um - with respect, I think you completely misunderstood my post.

I did not say that Wall Street thinkjs Frontier is doing well. I said that the stock price did not react to two hefty pieces of bad news.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 36):
but as an investor, until I see better, as well as more consistent numbers, I don't think I would put any money into F9's stock right now.

I don't recall advising you - or anyone - to do that.

I was merely commenting that on a day when Southwest expanded service at DEN and oil went over $73 a barrel, one might have expected a big drop in the FRNT stock price.

And it didn't happen.

mariner

[Edited 2006-06-06 00:28:34]
aeternum nauta
 
jacobin777
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 37):
I did not say that Wall Street thinkjs Frontier is doing well. I said that the stock price did not react to two hefty pieces of bad news.

the stock is in the doldrums already......and many market pariticipants might be out...not to mention, some LCC's did fine, B6 was up....

Quoting Mariner (Reply 37):
I don't recall advising you - or anyone - to do that.

I didn't ask for you advice....I was only passing my opinion on this message board.... Smile

cheers.
"Up the Irons!"
 
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mariner
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):
the stock is in the doldrums already......and many market pariticipants might be out...not to mention, some LCC's did fine, B6 was up....

Frontier's circumstances are completely different from JetBlue. Or Airtran. It isn't about LCC's. It is about one airline at Denver.

Yes, the stock has been in the doldrums. Yoiu think I don't know this?

That doesn't mean to say it can't go further down.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 38):
I didn't ask for you advice....I was only passing my opinion on this message board.

I beg your pardon. You told me what you wouldn't do as if I had been advising you to do it.

So, for the record, I never - repeat "never" - advise people to buy or sell stocks.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jacobin777
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):

I beg your pardon. You told me what you wouldn't do as if I had been advising you to do it.

yes, even though I was discussing the stock of F9 with you, I didn't feel as if there was a "stock recommendation" mentioned...I assumed from the way I made my comments, you would have understood that..apologies if I'm mistaken...

Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
Frontier's circumstances are completely different from JetBlue. Or Airtran. It isn't about LCC's. It is about one airline at Denver.

Yes, the stock has been in the doldrums. Yoiu think I don't know this?

That doesn't mean to say it can't go further down.

true, many times however, stocks in the same industry move in the same direction..and I did say the stock of F9 can go lower (ie.-"doesn't bode well"), I did however mention that it would only go higher if the fundamentals turned around and that "The Street" isn't too sanguine about that at this particular time...

given how we have a good level of respect for one another, I can only see this as some level of misunderstanding......

cheers.. Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
DesertAir
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:08 am

I find it interesting that WN is avoiding the adding of West Coast cities. As mentioned earlier, many of us thought the OAK frequencies would increase. UA has a monopoly on this route. I think this is also true for Burbank and Orange County. Anyway, things are heating up in Denver!
 
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mariner
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 40):
rue, many times however, stocks in the same industry move in the same direction.

The FRNT stock has not moved in the same direction as the rest of the civil aviation sector since Southwest announced DEN.

Moreover, this is the first day - in all that time - that oil has gone substantially up and FRNT has not gone down in tandem.

Moreover, this is the first time that Southwest has made an announcement of expansion at DEN (in the way of flights or gates, etc) and FRNT has not gone down at least 5%.

New aircraft? FRNT goes down. Gates at DEN? FRNT goes down. RASM up? FRNT goes down. Record load factors? FRNT goes down. ATSB sells warrants, potential dilution goes away? FRNT goes down.

Probable profit in this Q? FRNT goes down.

So it may seem like a curious cause for celebration to you, but to long time FRNT stock holders - and I am NOT advising anyone to buy the stock - today was a much better day than most have been since the albatross that is Southwest first crapped on Frontier's nest.

 Smile

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
clrd2go
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:34 am

Dang..I was hoping we'd see a MHT-DEN flight or 2.




Jim
What a long strange trip it's been
 
CentPIT
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 35):
Denver, CO Pittsburgh, PA 385.86
Denver, CO Reno, NV 374.67
Denver, CO Nashville, TN 372.6


This should probably give a good indication of where WN might add flights from DEN in future...

As an example, PIT-DEN, July 4 to July 11:

US Airways: ($309.60)

United Airlines: ($309.60)

I wouldn't mind seeing an average fare of $225.60!

PHL should have been announced, they could have fought off the competition!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
midex461
Posts: 228
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
Southwest hadn't offered service to Denver before

I'm surprised no one has pointed out that WN HAS offered service to DEN before. They flew there sometime back in the 80's, but pulled out when delays at Stapleton caused a domino effect throughout their system (or at least that's what Southwest says).
Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
 
Rottamo
Posts: 135
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 35):
choosing BNA as the cut-off since it was announced today

Nashville was really strange opening. There are many cities that are more promising (like ten). I can mention:

Los Angeles, CA, San Diego, CA, Philadelphia, PA, Detroit, MI, San Jose/Palo Alto, CA, Sacramento, CA, St. Louis, MO, Austin, TX, Omaha, NE, Oakland/Berkeley, CA, Raleigh/Durham, NC, Pittsburgh, PA, Reno, NV

I am wondering why did they choose to open this route? It is quite long and thin.
Fares are not especially high. They doesn't offer connections in Nashville. Frontier is market share leader and it looks like United's and Frontier's fares are almost same. One idea that came to my mind is that they can offer one stops via Kansas City and offering non-stops and one-stops they can offer a good schedule. But they are not doing that right now.

May be they want to send a signal to United and others that they are serious and they are not going to run a way.

I finally started to believe that they are really going to be big in Denver if they want to offer routes like that out of Denver.

Rottamo
 
jacobin777
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:35 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 40):
true, many times however, stocks in the same industry move in the same direction



Quoting Mariner (Reply 42):
So it may seem like a curious cause for celebration to you, but to long time FRNT stock holders - and I am NOT advising anyone to buy the stock - today was a much better day than most have been since the albatross that is Southwest first crapped on Frontier's nest.

today might be that "exception" to my "many times" comment..that being said, I'm not so sure if you think I'm happy to see F9's stock in the doldrums...because I'm not... no 

I was only pointing out that the company stock hasn't fared well and usually the big stock holders know more information than the general public knows..hence the consistent sell-off, even in the event of good news..

as I mentioned earlier, I hope to see F9 compete successfully, but this isn't what "the street" thinks at this point in time......nothing more, nothing less...

cheers.. Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
Garri767
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:35 am

come on...announce AMA-DEN already! UA/F9 express charges 150$ each way! theyd own that market.......wait....im not so sure thats a good thing  Wink





Garri767
Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do!
 
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mariner
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RE: Southwest Adds New Flights/cities To DEN.

Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Garri767 (Reply 48):
UA/F9 express charges 150$ each way!

Hang on. Frontier does not fly DEN-AMA.

The code share with Great Lakes is for connecting pax only.

mariner
aeternum nauta

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