ContinentalGuy
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Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:45 am

Would Boeing ever make an extremely long (longer than 757-300 or 777-300) 757-400? If so, what would the airline benefits be?
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:51 am

No. Boeing will not make any more B757s of any length. The tooling has been scrapped. Also, the B757-300 already has a high length to fuselage height ratio for a metal airliner. It is conceivable that the longest variant of the B737RS (formerly Y1) might be longer than the B757-300, but it will not be as long as a B777-300.
 
andrewuber
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:51 am

The 757 line closed last year, so I really doubt they would re-open it to offer an aircraft that would compete with the 787 and / or 739.

Anyway - the 753 looks quite long already, I'm not sure if they could put much more on that airframe.

Drew
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LN-MOW
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:58 am

757-400? Didn't you know? We're using it for our overseas military flights!

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/photos/big/00001207.jpg
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
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American 767
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:51 am

No there won't be a 757-400. As mentioned above, the B757 production line closed a year ago and I really doubt Boeing would ever reopen the line. Boeing did not even think of a 757-400 while the 757 line was still open. Even if Boeing did think of it, the 400 would not have been any longer than the 300, the 400 would probably have had the same lenght as the 200 but it would have had improved features such as raked wingtips, LCD cockpit like that of the B777/B767-400, while it would still be part of the B757/767 type rating when certified by the FAA.

Ben Soriano
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jetjack74
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
Boeing will not make any more B757s of any length. The tooling has been scrapped. Also, the B757-300 already has a high length to fuselage height ratio for a metal airliner.

That's not correct, a 757 can be built, but it will have it's price. The option to build a 757 airframe is still possible, but the customer will pay an inflated list price, plus additional production costs. Boeing can, and will build any airframe, but it's most likely going to come from a gov't-related order. When the US Navy was looking for a platform for the E-6, they selected the 707-320 airframe. The RAF also selected the new-built airframes of the 707 for their E-3D Sentry AWACs aircraft. Any redundant airframe can be constructed, but it's just gonna cost more.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
That's not correct, a 757 can be built, but it will have it's price.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The production line is gone. The tools to make non-replaceable 757 parts are gone. The subcontractors have gone on to other things. There's absolutely no way to build a 757 for any customer without relaunching the entire program. That would take millions of dollars and a vote by the board of executives.

In other words, it ain't gonna happen.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):

You said it pal. Straight from the horse's mouth
Puhdiddle
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:57 am

They closed the 757 line for a reason, that reason was not that airlines were ordering too many.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:10 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
When the US Navy was looking for a platform for the E-6, they selected the 707-320 airframe. The RAF also selected the new-built airframes of the 707 for their E-3D Sentry AWACs aircraft. Any redundant airframe can be constructed, but it's just gonna cost more.

This misses a very important point: The 707 line was still running when these orders came in, and these orders kept production going until 1989.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
797charter
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:21 pm

Quoting ContinentalGuy (Thread starter):
Would Boeing ever make an extremely long (longer than 757-300 or 777-300) 757-400? If so, what would the airline benefits be?

Gooood idea whit this 757-400-!

But I think the Boeing R&D first have to finish the 707-800.
 hyper 
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mush
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 5):
That's not correct, a 757 can be built, but it will have it's price. The option to build a 757 airframe is still possible, but the customer will pay an inflated list price, plus additional production costs.



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
That would take millions of dollars and a vote by the board of executives.

The board would vote yes and Boeing would spend the money if, like Jetjack said, the customer paid an inflated price.
Think about it...if someone was willing to pay $300 million each for 20 brand new 757s, Boeing would bend over backwards to make the airplanes for the customer.

I personally think that no more 757s will be built, but it is possible...for the right price.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
The production line is gone. The tools to make non-replaceable 757 parts are gone. The subcontractors have gone on to other things.

And if the subcontractors could make a few extra dollars they could replace everything (tooling, production line, etc.) that is gone and destroyed.
Sprung from cages out on highway 9
 
noelg
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:23 pm

Haven't you heard Condor have already tried it, crammed in a few extra seats at least!  Wink

http://www.marshgiddings.com/images/757-400.jpg

Hope you like the product of my bored lunch break!  Wink
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:44 pm

If, for some reason, the USAF needs any additional C-20s (the military transport version of the 757), they will purchase already existing commercial frames and convert them, just as they did with 707s when they built the E-8C JSTARS.
 
Airportgal
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting Noelg (Reply 12):
Hope you like the product of my bored lunch break!

I think you need a few more doors - LOL!
 
mush
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
If, for some reason, the USAF needs any additional C-20s (the military transport version of the 757), they will purchase already existing commercial frames and convert them, just as they did with 707s when they built the E-8C JSTARS.

I agree that the US Government would buy used commercial hulls if they were required, but it is possible for them to get new ones (at an inflated price that would cover the costs of recommissioning the line). And I think that was the point Jetjack was trying to make.

Let's go Mets!!!
Sprung from cages out on highway 9
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
No. Boeing will not make any more B757s of any length. The tooling has been scrapped.



Quoting Andrewuber (Reply 2):
The 757 line closed last year,



Quoting American 767 (Reply 4):
B757 production line closed



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
The production line is gone. The tools to make non-replaceable 757 parts are gone.



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 8):
They closed the 757 line for a reason, that reason was not that airlines were ordering too many

I know it's true that there will never be anymore built and there are still a lot of them out there, but all these statements still make me a little sad.

When I would see DL's 757 at BHM, I thought it looked a little awkward with the nose gear set so far back, at least compared to the other aircraft. I had not seen a 777 except UA's that stayed a few days in BHM on 9/11. My airplane experience was limited.

I worked for TZ for 2 1/2 years and from the beginning I fell in love with the 757. That is one awesome plane. I always was glad to fly on them. I was at MDW last night picking up a friend and saw one of the 752s and brought back good memories.

I know I will see them around for years to come and always look forward to change in the industry, but the 757-200 and -300 are great planes. Though I think I have stayed on subject, I will mention that anything longer than the -300, without 2 aisles, would be a huge hassle. Some charters had air stairs at L-1 and L-4 and that was great, but standard boarding from one door and standard deplaning from one door took quite a while.

There is my sentimental story for the day. Long live the 757 and TZ.

M
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:46 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 9):
This misses a very important point: The 707 line was still running when these orders came in, and these orders kept production going until 1989.

Wrong. The production line ceased long before that. The 707 line ceased on December 9th, 1977, when the last 707 when the last 70 rolled off the production line and was delivered, a -3F9C to Nigeria Airways in January of '78. Production ended more than 10 years before your alleged date. The E-6 situation required an airframe that could accomodate the TACAMO equipment that was on the EC-130Q's, to the point, that a new-built airframe was the only option. Also, when the E-6 was commissioned in 1986, the availability of low-time, well-maintained 707's were hard to come by because the owners were either unwilling to part with them, or they were all being snapped up by the US gov't for the KC-135E upgrade programme underway. So the only option was to build 16 new ones, first one being in 1989, last one in 1994. The E-8 JSTARs programme was a bit different. The Senate Appropriations Committee awarded the USAF in January of 1989 the funds to purchase newly built 707's for the E-8C, however because of cost overruns, and budget shortages, the idea was later cast to acquire civilian 707's, and convert them. The Navy's needs justified the means to purchase new 707's, while the Air Force's did not.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
If, for some reason, the USAF needs any additional C-20s (the military transport version of the 757), they will purchase already existing commercial frames and convert them, just as they did with 707s when they built the E-8C JSTARS.

Number 1, the the C-20 is a Gulfstream, the C-32 is the 757. Number 2, the mission of the C-32 is executive transport of the executive branch, which in this case would never be tasked with former civilian aircraft. As I said above, the E-8 programme originally called for new 707 airframes, but the USAF decided to go with conversion because of budgeting shortfalls in defense spending for that fiscal year. Completely different senarios

Quoting Mush (Reply 15):
I agree that the US Government would buy used commercial hulls if they were required, but it is possible for them to get new ones (at an inflated price that would cover the costs of recommissioning the line). And I think that was the point Jetjack was trying to make

Exactly, if a customer wants something bad enough that only Boeing can build, than it can be built. It's just going to cost alot more than it did in the past. This mumbo-jumbo about production lines ceasing is garbage. it's meaningless.


Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
The production line is gone.

So what? Boeing wouldn't need to open an entire production line to build a few airframes.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
The tools to make non-replaceable 757 parts are gone. The subcontractors have gone on to other things.

Rubbish. Everything has a price.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
There's absolutely no way to build a 757 for any customer without relaunching the entire program.



Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
That would take millions of dollars and a vote by the board of executives.

B F-ing S, the production of an aircraft has nothing to do with the a board of executives. It's up to the sales and engineering division. You can build aircraft without a production line. The 707 airframes I referenced above weren't built on the 707 prodution line. The VC-25A's weren't built on the 747-200 production line. If a 757 was built, under special circumstances, it would most likely be built in Witchita, KS. The likelyhood is slim to none, but to say that it can never happen is just garbage. You can't say that with any certainty, you or I can only speculate.
Made from jets!
 
USADreamliner
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:05 am

I was on a CO 753 from FLL to IAH. I don't know you, but when I was inside the plane, my first thought was "Oh, this is SO narrow". Very crampred seats ( even for me, a skinny guy). And you can't avoid the claustrophobic feeling on such long and thin tube!


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COA735
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting Noelg (Reply 12):
Hope you like the product of my bored lunch break!

Funny as hell  rotfl   rotfl 

JM  mischievous 
 
JAL
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:41 am

There's no point for Boeing to relaunch the 757 line with the 787 in the horizon plus don't think many airlines will want to order it.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:58 am

1

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
Wrong. The production line ceased long before that. The 707 line ceased on December 9th, 1977, when the last 707 when the last 70 rolled off the production line and was delivered

That was the last civilian 707, the military 707 variant production carried on.

US Military:
1959 Model 707-153 VC-137A 3
1962 Model 707-353B VC-137C 2
1972 Model 707-320B EC-137D 2
1975 Model 707-320B E-3A 22
1980 Model 707-320B E-3B 10
1987 Model 707-320C E-6A 16
1990 Model 707-320C YE-8B 1

Foreign Military:
1980 Model 707-320B E-3A 23
1986 Model 707-320B KE-3A 8
1989 Model 707-320B E-3D 7
1990 Model 707-320B E-3F 4 Total: 42
1975 Model 707-3F3B delivered to: Argentina 1
1974 Model 707-3L6B/C delivered to: Malaysia 2
1968 Model 707-307C delivered to: West Germany 4
1970 Model 707-347C delivered to: Canada 5
1974 Model 707-366C delivered to: Egypt 1
1975 Model 707-368C delivered to: Saudi Arabia 1
1971 Model 707-3F5C delivered to: Portugal 2
1975 Model 707-3M1C delivered to: Indonesia 1
1974 Model 707-3J9C delivered to: Iran 14
1977 Model 707-3P1C delivered to: Qatar Emiri 1
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
The VC-25A's weren't built on the 747-200 production line.

Which leads me to ask, How did they build the VC-25As.. Did they just make 2 747-200Bs from Scratch, or did they use 747-400F parts and just convert it to executive/civilian use. And how come they didn't order 2 747-400s instead, seeing as how they were newer, and already on the line.
Puhdiddle
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22):

Two standard -200B aircraft were delivered as normal, and they were then converted to the VC-25 standard. There was no need for a production line conversion, as there wasnt enough ordered.
 
Pikky02
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:32 am

I've never imagined a 757 with 4 engines LN-MOW. LOL.
 
rampkontroler
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:31 am

Just some food for thought for you....

The following quoted from "Great Airliners- Volume 3 747SP" by Brian Baum:

"The 45th and final SP built ( A6-ZSN, ln 676/msn 23610) was specially ordered by the government of Abu Dhabi- almost four years after the 44th (YI-ALM) was delivered. The SP rolled out only nine months after the order was placed, but it took almost another three years to deliver after installation of luxurious furnishings and a communications center."

It was also the most expensive one ever built. Makes me wonder what Boeing did with the production line during those four years?


Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 6):
The tools to make non-replaceable 757 parts are gone. The subcontractors have gone on to other things.

Rubbish. Everything has a price.

Could it be true?

Cheers!


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RichardPrice
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Rampkontroler (Reply 25):
It was also the most expensive one ever built. Makes me wonder what Boeing did with the production line during those four years?

It was built in the same production line as the -200, -300 and -400 wasnt it? Just assign a bay to that aircraft and build it - chances are 99% of the tooling is the same. Boeing still build -200 and -300 variants as customer requests last I heard.
 
rampkontroler
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 26):

It was built in the same production line as the -200, -300 and -400 wasnt it? Just assign a bay to that aircraft and build it - chances are 99% of the tooling is the same. Boeing still build -200 and -300 variants as customer requests last I heard.

Hi Richard--- I'm not sure, but that's my guess as well...It would make the most sense. For all their similarities, they had many striking differences, and I don't mean just in length!
 
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 23):
Two standard -200B aircraft were delivered as normal, and they were then converted to the VC-25 standard. There was no need for a production line conversion, as there wasnt enough ordered.

Sort of. A lot of -400 parts (engines, cockpit) were used on the VC-25s.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
rampkontroler
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting Rampkontroler (Reply 27):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 26):

It was built in the same production line as the -200, -300 and -400 wasnt it? Just assign a bay to that aircraft and build it - chances are 99% of the tooling is the same. Boeing still build -200 and -300 variants as customer requests last I heard.

Hi Richard--- I'm not sure, but that's my guess as well...It would make the most sense. For all their similarities, they had many striking differences, and I don't mean just in length!

And just to follow up, the same book states that the SP shared a 92% structural commonality with the -100 series. So, it sounds like a reasonable proposition.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 28):
Sort of. A lot of -400 parts (engines, cockpit) were used on the VC-25s.

Engines yes, cockpit, no. The VC-25's have a standard -200 cockpit.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 21):
That was the last civilian 707, the military 707 variant production carried on.

The production line was shut down, period. Boeing built the new examples when orders were placed. They were constructed at Boeing/Witchita.

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 22):
Which leads me to ask, How did they build the VC-25As.. Did they just make 2 747-200Bs from Scratch, or did they use 747-400F parts and just convert it to executive/civilian use. And how come they didn't order 2 747-400s instead, seeing as how they were newer, and already on the line.

The reason why it was built as a -200B was because the aircrfat were ordered in 1986(a full 2 years before the -400 flew) for delivery in 1989. Technical design for the aircraft was made on the generic whale, and the -400 fuselage wasn't needed. The order for a gov't -400 was from the Japanese.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 30):
Engines yes, cockpit, no. The VC-25's have a standard -200 cockpit.

The aircraft are scheduled to have a phase 2 upgrade to a 2 cockpit crew in 2010.

[Edited 2006-06-07 00:29:35]
Made from jets!
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Boeing 757-400?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
B F-ing S, the production of an aircraft has nothing to do with the a board of executives. It's up to the sales and engineering division

And guess who is responsible for giving the sales division the authority to offer a product? Ding ding ding... the board of executives.

And guess who would be responsible for underwriting what would surmount to the launch of a new product? Ding ding ding... the board of executives.

What's got you so pissy?  Yeah sure

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
So what? Boeing wouldn't need to open an entire production line to build a few airframes.

They would need every peice of equippment available on the production floor, so the end result would be the equivelent of a new production line.

Commerical aircraft are not like concept cars or even aircraft prototypes, which are typically very limited in scope.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):

Rubbish. Everything has a price.

Ha!

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