uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:05 pm

alot has been said lately of UALs post ch11 ride and i was wondering from the DL crowd in the know...what has delta done in ch11 to make them a leaner airline..not alot has been published as to what grinstein has done..
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
ramerinianair
Posts: 1452
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:03 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:19 pm

I am not on the inside of DL but I fly them a lot.
DL had lowered costs before chapter 11 but, more aggressively after filing. They have:
-Cut in-flight service; domestic First plastic service, coach "snack basket" instead of small sandwich
-New configurations, adding seats (763 and 757)
-Increasing fares
-Journey Control (yield management)
-A lot of flights going to their DL Connection Regional partners; ASA assuming some risk on routes as well
-Contracting ground services
-Salary cuts
-De-Peaking hub for more efficient use of aircraft
And more . . .
SR
W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:27 pm

In a nutshell.

They've simplified the fleet.

Outsourced many maintenance functions.

Renegotiated or dropped certain leases. Obtained better interest rates on loans.

Cut employee pay/benefits.

Cut employee numbers relative to passenger enplanements by outsourcing and technology upgrades. Ex. more contracted ramp operations, kiosks, web bookings, etc

Reduced overall capacity along with shifting to more International routes.

Increased the use of lower cost distribution channels such as internet purchased e-tickets.

Coming later, debt will be exchanged for equity when the new stock is issued. Pension obligations will be reduced with or without Congressional action.

Consolidated Res offices, FA and Pilot bases

Gutted Passenger Sales department, moved cargo operations under airport operations, reduced number of Mgrs relative to employees.
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:30 pm

Quoting Ramerinianair (Reply 1):
adding seats (763 and 757)

763 Non-ER added two seats, 757s will have a two seat increase, altho pitch will be 33" standard vs. 31 today.

-g
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:31 pm

That's right, I forgot to mention that as it's important.

They reduced ground times and increased daily utilization.

And I've heard they have some new Revenue Mgt system that has some important features that the old program did not have. Time will tell on that.
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 3):
757s will have a two seat increase, altho pitch will be 33" standard vs. 31 today

Could you elaborate on this? Delta's new plan for the 757 is how many seats total? But the seat pitch is 33? I thought Song had a 32 inch pitch so this would be better?
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 5):
Could you elaborate on this? Delta's new plan for the 757 is how many seats total? But the seat pitch is 33? I thought Song had a 32 inch pitch so this would be better?

Song 757 is 199 seats with all seats at least at 33" (ee rows and row 9 obviously have slightly more).

DL 757s currently have 24F and 159Y(at 31", ee rows have 32").

New (interim) DL 757 config. is 26F and 159Y. The additional 2 F seats are a result of removal of the closet at 1L (and reconfig of 2L/R area). Closet will be just in front of 2L (where current Song a/c have a closet). Also, IFE controls (Panasonic Vision touch system) will be in this place as well. Galley at 2 removed and Y seats moved slightly to allow standard 33" pitch.

This is the plan but I say "interim" as rumor has it that September's announcement is something completely different  Wink

Time will tell.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:52 pm

putting song and ted on the back burner....what has delta done that ual should have done in ch11???most of what has been written ual has done ch11
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:02 pm

That seems to be a great layout. Keeping the Song pitch and in-seat IFE is a nice touch.
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting ArtieFufkin (Reply 8):
That seems to be a great layout. Keeping the Song pitch and in-seat IFE is a nice touch.

DL is finally realizing their 757s are the most UNCOMFORTABLE planes in the American airways!

The Song IFE is second to non IMHO, and is about to get better!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
ArtieFufkin
Posts: 671
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 2:26 pm

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 7):
putting song and ted on the back burner....what has delta done that ual should have done in ch11???

Well they are unable at this point to outsource maintenance like Delta has done due to their union contracts. Also, although pay rates were cut, I think many of the work rules, outsourcing limitations were left intact. From memory I think they are still low in utilizaton rates.

I think you are right they have done almost everthing that Delta has done. Maybe not to the degree they should have.
 
echster
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:01 pm

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:10 pm

I used to love flying DL, especially when I lived back South. Now I fly mostly to Asia. With all that DL has done, IMHO, they're still in a struggle to profitability. Are they going to make it, and what more needs to be done?
 
DL4EVR
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:46 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting Ramerinianair (Reply 1):
-Cut in-flight service; domestic First plastic service, coach "snack basket" instead of small sandwich

Compared to their snack services on short haul routes from 2001-2004...their new snack service is quite an improvement.
As for the plastic F cabin...that sucks. That's one of the first things that needs to be changed. Even the f/a's talk about how pathetic it is.
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 12):
Compared to their snack services on short haul routes from 2001-2004...their new snack service is quite an improvement.
As for the plastic F cabin...that sucks. That's one of the first things that needs to be changed. Even the f/a's talk about how pathetic it is.

For a lot of people it is the little things that can make or break a customer experience!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 12):

Compared to their snack services on short haul routes from 2001-2004...their new snack service is quite an improvement.
As for the plastic F cabin...that sucks. That's one of the first things that needs to be changed. Even the f/a's talk about how pathetic it is.

I was on a NW award ticket a few months back (in coach), and I joked to the flight attendants that I wasn't used to seeing real glasses in a First Class cabin. They asked me what I meant by that, and I told them that on Delta, we get plastic in First Class. The F/A was shocked and thought that wasn't a good move at all.

Jeff
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: DL Post Ch11

Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 6):
Song 757 is 199 seats with all seats at least at 33" (ee rows and row 9 obviously have slightly more).

DL 757s currently have 24F and 159Y(at 31", ee rows have 32").

New (interim) DL 757 config. is 26F and 159Y. The additional 2 F seats are a result of removal of the closet at 1L (and reconfig of 2L/R area). Closet will be just in front of 2L (where current Song a/c have a closet). Also, IFE controls (Panasonic Vision touch system) will be in this place as well. Galley at 2 removed and Y seats moved slightly to allow standard 33" pitch.

This is the plan but I say "interim" as rumor has it that September's announcement is something completely different

Talking with some flight crew this past weekend coming back to MCO and they are pretty excited about the new trans-con product coming from DL via the 752's/Song type product in the mainline.
I gotta tell you, I hope its nicer than what the transcon product is now. I flew first class out to LAS and the 763's to/from there were dirty and in need of some serious cleaning. I had the tv type monitor for the MCO-ATL runs in the 764 and the screens were in bad shape and the buttons on the controls did not all work. The only saving grace was the flight attendants were some of the nicest and friendliest I have had in a long time...really great cabin crews IMO.
 
DL4EVR
Posts: 635
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:46 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:56 am

Are the 764s getting the new song style IFE? I thought it was going to be limited to the 757, 738 and 763 domestic. Hopefully when the new transcon product arrives, so will glasses, tablecloths and real silverware. Did DL sell all of that stuff off or is it just in storage?
We Love To Fly And It Shows.
 
AADC10
Posts: 1507
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 7:40 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:08 am

As with UA, captial expenditure and non-essential maintenance will be cut to the bone, so the interiors are going to get shabby until they clear Ch. 11 and are free to cut loose some money.

I have not doubt whatsoever that they will exit Ch. 11 intact. Perhaps the biggest problem with the UA bankruptcy is that it emerged awfully similar to the airline that went in.
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: DL Post Ch11

Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:43 am

757's will seat 26 and 154. The 45 y/c seats in the front of the cabin will be removed for the 26 f/c seats.

767-300's have had 2 seats removed from y/c to bring f/a staffing down to 5 from 6. Eventually they plan to reconfigure the y/c cabin to allow more leg room aft of the exit rows.

DL has increased int'l flying to a goal of 35% of revenues from 16%. The new goal is 50% of revenues in the next few years.

Has increased utilization of aircraft throughout its system largely through decreased turn times.

Has downguaged aircraft in Florida markets to decrease capacity and raise fares. Took 767-400's from Florida and redeployed them on international and new Hawaiian markets.

Has shut down a hub (DFW) and decreased operations at CVG in order to put CVG on a 50% local traffic and 50% connecting traffic revenue mix.

Has used newer RJ's (E170) to open new markets and more point to point markets.

-UAL has not streamlined its fleet. By increasing the utilization of their fleet, shifting away from some hub and spoke flying and reducing turn times they can reduce fleet numbers and fleet types.

-Is not using TED as a hub bypass for strong o/d markets.

-Is not using all available route authorities to Asia or Heathrow.

-Has withdrawn service from most Central and South American markets despite having route authorities.

-Has not capatalized on the outsourcing of maintenence by competitiors by insourcing their work and making their hangers and shops more productive.

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