User avatar
Aeroflot777
Topic Author
Posts: 2983
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:01 pm

My grandpa flew this route today, and when I went on delta.com to see his flight status, I noticed that it said the equipement was a 767-200. I checked a few days in advance and the schedules all show 767-200s. Is this a permanent change now? I'm booked on this flight next week, so should I expect a -300 or a -200?
I was under the impression that Delta flew -300ERs over to Moscow from both JFK and ATL.
So what exactly happened?

Aeroflot777
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:15 pm

I see that. It is definately an error. DL does not operate the 767-200 anymore. All overseas flights are flown by 767-300ER's, 767-400ER's, and 777-200's. Very strange!

[Edited 2006-06-07 09:20:49]
 
764
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:34 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:16 pm

Did it actually say "Boeing 767-200" or did it just say "762"? In the latter case the code 762 is referring to the 767-300 they got from Gulf Air recently. Don't ask me, just WHY Delta decided to use the 762 code for this ship, but they did. So "762" is actually a B767-3P6 (e.g. N155DL).
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:18 pm

Quoting 764 (Reply 2):
Did it actually say "Boeing 767-200"

That's what it says.
 
764
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:34 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:20 pm

One more thought - It could also be that Delta's own website translates the 762 code into "767-200" although Delta's CRS now uses that code for the 767-3P6 in 30/186 configuration.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 3):
Quoting 764 (Reply 2):
Did it actually say "Boeing 767-200"

That's what it says.

If it is entered as that on the OAG site, that is because OAG recognizes the normal abreviations, not the intra-carrier ones.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jr
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:15 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:31 am

I have an itinerary from AF for an upcoming trip with a bunch of DL legs, and 2 of my 767-300 flights show up as 767-200 on flights 118 and 119 (CDG-MAA-CDG). Its definitely an error. Not sure where that is coming from.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:35 am

I've noticed this several times as well when tracking DL flights.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting 764 (Reply 2):
the 767-300 they got from Gulf Air recently. Don't ask me, just WHY Delta decided to use the 762 code for this ship, but they did. So "762" is actually a B767-3P6 (e.g. N155DL).

Do these these Gulf Air aircraft have 2 entry doors, aside, forward of the wing? Similar to the 767-400 and 757.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:25 am

Here is a legend for DL's timetable:

762 = 767-300ER (Ex Gulf Air with one less row of BizE)
767 = 767-300ER ("Standard" version)
763 = 767-300 (Domestic Version)

757 = 757-200 (Standard Domestic Two-Class Version)
752 = 757-200 (Former Song Aircraft, One-Class for now)

Confusing stuff. Keep in mind that all 767-200's have been retired from the fleet and are no longer operated by DL.
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:46 am

Quoting 764 (Reply 4):
One more thought - It could also be that Delta's own website translates the 762 code into "767-200" although Delta's CRS now uses that code for the 767-3P6 in 30/186 configuration.

I think this is exactly what happens ... the 762 code is picked up by the website as a 767-200.

Mind you, go check the seating chart : it's really a 767-300.

This would be easily fixable by the website team, if they'd bother to ...

- litz
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 8):
Do these these Gulf Air aircraft have 2 entry doors, aside, forward of the wing?

Yes, and thus only one overwing emergency exit.
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Topic Author
Posts: 2983
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:58 am

Thank you to everyone for their help. I kind of figured it was probably a mistake. I know that DL used to send 767-200s to Moscow years back. Anyways, thanks for the clarification.

Aeroflot777
 
goomba
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:55 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:31 am

I am flying SFO to ATL on Aug 11 and the equipment is 767-200 according to the seating chart that I had to chose my seats from on Delta.com. It did not say 762 - it really said (767-200).
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting Goomba (Reply 13):
I am flying SFO to ATL on Aug 11 and the equipment is 767-200 according to the seating chart that I had to chose my seats from on Delta.com. It did not say 762 - it really said (767-200).

I assume you are on DL64? If that's the case, this may be due to the fact that flight 64 operates SFO-ATL-MAN even though there is an a/c type change in ATL. ATL-MAN is in general operated with the ex-Gulf Air 763ERs and are thus designated as 762 (in internal DL lingo); the seat map for ATL-MAN as a result says a 767-200 but shows a seat map for the ex-GF 763. The SFO-ATL portion, while saying a 762, is actually operated by a 767-400.
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting Goomba (Reply 13):
I am flying SFO to ATL on Aug 11 and the equipment is 767-200 according to the seating chart that I had to chose my seats from on Delta.com. It did not say 762 - it really said (767-200).

The seating chart is labelled 767-200 .... however if you count the seats and look at the configuration, it's definately not a 762 ...

The presence of the 2L door, to begin with, is a dead giveaway ...  Smile

(as is the number of rows)

- litz
 
goomba
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:55 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:24 am

So what am I on - Aug 11th - SFO to ATL (Delta Flight 64)? Is this actually a 764? 49 rows in a 2-3-2 config? Seems like it must be a 764.
 
teixeim
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:49 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:35 am

I've seen the now famous non-existent 762 scheduled for the ATL-GRU run and asked here as well. You would think the DL website team would fix this, but airplane geeks like us are probably the only ones that notice!  Smile

Cheers!
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting Goomba (Reply 16):
So what am I on - Aug 11th - SFO to ATL (Delta Flight 64)? Is this actually a 764? 49 rows in a 2-3-2 config? Seems like it must be a 764.

Ok, I had thought you could easily tell the difference between the various 767 types ...

Obviously you can use the presence or absence of door 2L to see if you have an ex-Gulf Air 767 (the mythical "762" type) or not.

However, A/B'ing between a 764 marked flight, and a 762 marked flight, the web site is showing IDENTICAL seating charts for the two aircraft.

HUH ???????

Check on the web site (just go to reservations, select one way, and by schedule, for SFO-ATL on 8/11/06) and look at the seats available for the various flights listed.

Flight 473, a 767-300, marked as a 767-300. Standard DL 763, no door 2L, 47 total rows.

Flight 632, a 767-400, marked as a 767-400. Standard DL 764, has door 2L, mini coach cabin rows 10-14, and 49 total rows.

Flight 64, a 767-300, marked as a 767-200. Ex Gulf Air 763, has door 2L, mini coach cabin rows 10-14, and 49 total rows. identical layout to the 764

Very confusing ... how can a 767-300 and a 767-400 have identical coach cabin layouts? Isn't a 763ER shorter than a 764?

I checked the first class cabins, as well, and they're identical too ... in fact, to make things even MORE confusing, the 767-400 has 7 rows of normal first class, and the 767-300ER has 7 rows of business elite.

I have no idea how to explain this ...

- litz
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:08 pm

Quoting Goomba (Reply 16):
So what am I on - Aug 11th - SFO to ATL (Delta Flight 64)? Is this actually a 764? 49 rows in a 2-3-2 config? Seems like it must be a 764.

Yes, the SFO-ATL portion of DL64 is on a 764 (7 rows in F and rows 10-49 in Y).

Quoting Litz (Reply 18):
Flight 64, a 767-300, marked as a 767-200. Ex Gulf Air 763, has door 2L, mini coach cabin rows 10-14, and 49 total rows. identical layout to the 764

Very confusing ... how can a 767-300 and a 767-400 have identical coach cabin layouts? Isn't a 763ER shorter than a 764?

I checked the first class cabins, as well, and they're identical too ... in fact, to make things even MORE confusing, the 767-400 has 7 rows of normal first class, and the 767-300ER has 7 rows of business elite.

Yes, it's confusing but it's not the same. The label of 767-200 is plain wrong and has been explained in the posts above, in internal DL lingo, it is the ex-GF 763ERs. However, in this case because flight 64 is a through flight SFO-ATL-MAN, the SFO-ATL leg got tagged with "Business" and 762 label (and even sells J, D - typical Business class inventory - in CRS) for the forward Premium cabin even though that cabin on the domestic leg is really a regular domestic First cabin.

The seat maps for both segments show the correct ones even though they may be labelled wrong (i.e., 767-200). The SFO-ATL map shows 7 rows of the 764 domestic F cabin, though it's labelled "Business" (as explained above). The ATL-MAN map shows an ex-GF 763ER configuration with 5 rows of BusinessElite and a Y cabin that starts from row 13 (as opposed to row 10 for the 764 Y cabin).
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:10 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 9):
Here is a legend for DL's timetable:

762 = 767-300ER (Ex Gulf Air with one less row of BizE)
767 = 767-300ER ("Standard" version)
763 = 767-300 (Domestic Version)

757 = 757-200 (Standard Domestic Two-Class Version)
752 = 757-200 (Former Song Aircraft, One-Class for now)

Where is that posted b/c this is what we use
757- Mainline Delta 757
75K- SOng 757
767- 767-200/300 non ER
763- 767-300ER
76G- 767-300 Gulf Air Version
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:53 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 20):
Where is that posted b/c this is what we use
757- Mainline Delta 757
75K- SOng 757
767- 767-200/300 non ER
763- 767-300ER
76G- 767-300 Gulf Air Version

It's in the various CRS, as well as in the Delta schedules available through delta.com.
 
Oykie
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:12 pm

Quoting 764 (Reply 4):
One more thought - It could also be that Delta's own website translates the 762 code into "767-200" although Delta's CRS now uses that code for the 767-3P6 in 30/186 configuration.



Quoting Jr (Reply 6):
have an itinerary from AF for an upcoming trip with a bunch of DL legs, and 2 of my 767-300 flights show up as 767-200 on flights 118 and 119 (CDG-MAA-CDG). Its definitely an error. Not sure where that is coming from.

This kind of liberal use makes it harder for everyone to follow the logic behind the selection of aircraft types. The original reason for the three letter code of airplanes and airports where because the airlines payed for each letter sent through the telephone network.

Where is the logic in using the 762 as a short for a special seated 767-300ER when everyone else uses that code as a short for the 767-200. It would be the same logic as if I where to use M80 as a short for a 737-800. Everyone would have thought that this would be the short fort the MD-80. Right? SO why take the liberty of using so many different codes for the same kind of airplane? There should have been a standard, so everyone could follow the logic behind these codes. This is what the programmer of the site has been doing. Every 762 code shows up as an 767-200. Now that more and more is web based the people who decide what kind of code to use should agree what kind of code to use.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5035
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:09 am

Peple when it comes down to it, all the Delta 767-200's were retired. Remember the big Spirit of Delta final tour... end of story.
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 21):
Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 20):
Where is that posted b/c this is what we use
757- Mainline Delta 757
75K- SOng 757
767- 767-200/300 non ER
763- 767-300ER
76G- 767-300 Gulf Air Version

It's in the various CRS, as well as in the Delta schedules available through delta.com.

The Gulf 767's are allocated to routes from the regular 763 pool. They are not assigned to specific flights out of thier own pool. Most flights do not get an actual ship assigned until maybe a day before departure.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:17 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Thread starter):
My grandpa flew this route today, and when I went on delta.com to see his flight status, I noticed that it said the equipement was a 767-200. I checked a few days in advance and the schedules all show 767-200s. Is this a permanent change now? I'm booked on this flight next week, so should I expect a -300 or a -200?
I was under the impression that Delta flew -300ERs over to Moscow from both JFK and ATL.
So what exactly happened?

It was N191DN, which is no doubt a 767-300  Wink


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Fabio Laranjeira - Contato Radar



Quoting OyKIE (Reply 22):
Where is the logic in using the 762 as a short for a special seated 767-300ER when everyone else uses that code as a short for the 767-200.

It's pretty simple really. Delta doen't have any 767-200s in the fleet now. So you know it's not a 767-200 if you're looking at a Delta flight.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
Oykie
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:21 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:15 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 25):
It's pretty simple really. Delta doesn't have any 767-200s in the fleet now. So you know it's not a 767-200 if you're looking at a Delta flight.

But why use the 762 code in the timetables if it is not a 767-200ER? Why not a 76P or something to indicate that it is a different seating config?

What is the benefit for Delta to differentiate between the two 767-300ER models anyway?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
FlyDeltaJets
Posts: 1631
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:16 pm

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 26):
But why use the 762 code in the timetables if it is not a 767-200ER? Why not a 76P or something to indicate that it is a different seating config?

The code for the gulf 763's is 76G that is the only code that I ever see on the FIDS for that type of a/c.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 26):
What is the benefit for Delta to differentiate between the two 767-300ER models anyway?

Essentially, reducing customer complaints. Different layouts mean different number of seats which could mean a seat change for a pax, difference in whether there's a window or not, whether the row does recline, proximity to lavs/galleys, and other stuff like that. Sites like Seatguru can be a disadvantage as well if people get too focused on expecting an exact layout.
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:40 am

My point, though, was twofold :

1) why does DL use the 767-200 code on its website? We know they don't fly 767-200s anymore, so this just makes things confusing.

2) going on the assumption that the flights listed as a "767-200" are in fact the ex Gulf Air 763's, why is the seat layout on the website identical to the 767-400 when we also know the ex Gulf 763's have a different seat layout?

- litz
 
desiguy2447
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 9:01 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:55 am

It should be a 767-300ER. I just came back from flying Aeroflot in Biz, and Aeroflot uses the same aircraft as Delta to, and from IAD to SVO, and also DEL to SVO with the IL-96 being used SVO-DEL.
 
goomba
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:55 pm

RE: Delta Using 767-200s On ATL-SVO Route?

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:02 am

To sum up my post, I'm thrilled to be on the 764 instead. Thanks everyone.