barney captain
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WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:55 pm

Just completed a 3 day trip and on day one, climbed in to N635SW to settle in for the day. Wait, something is different, it took me a second, but sure enough, those melanoma causing eye brow windows were gone. It looked like she had just come out of a D check - fresh paint and REALLY clean. I thought I was up on latest stuff, but I didn't realize we had started plugging those windows.

OPNL, do you know if 635 just had a D check and if this is a sign of things to come wrt our 300's?
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OPNLguy
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting Barney Captain (Thread starter):
OPNL, do you know if 635 just had a D check and if this is a sign of things to come wrt our 300's?

I've been off on vacation for a couple of weeks and am due back Friday, so I'll ask around. I suspect that you're correct...
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TZTriStar500
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:15 pm

Perhaps SWA was used for the Boeing SB validation because the SB for the Classics has not yet been released. The NG SB was released on May 17 and is 737-56-1017.

After Line Number 1649 on the NGs, the #4 and 5 flight deck eyebrow windows where deleted. These SB's delete them from existing aircraft by removing and plugging.
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DAYflyer
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:18 pm

Interesting, but why dont they just install some slide down shades in instead of a removal and plugging? Is this possible?
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TZTriStar500
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
Interesting, but why dont they just install some slide down shades in instead of a removal and plugging? Is this possible?

The main purpose for removal was cost and weight savings as they are no longer necessary from an operational standpoint.
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seven3seven
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:49 pm

why the hell would they take the eyebrows OUT? waste of money.

I can see not installing them but going out of your way to remove them seems stupid
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GQfluffy
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:00 pm

Ok, call me ignorant, but why did Boeing remove the eyebrow windows from all of the new production NG 737s? Were they not needed anymore (and if so, why?)? Does it save Boeing and airlines money? Why are they gone?  Confused I honestly loved the look. It made every aircraft with them (707, 727, 737) look "Boeing"...
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N1120A
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:12 pm

Quoting Seven3seven (Reply 5):
why the hell would they take the eyebrows OUT? waste of money.

Actually, the CBA that was jointly done by WN and Boeing showed that plugging the windows ends up costing less than keeping them there. First, the aircraft weighs less but the bigger thing is that the windows no longer have to be replaced which means significantly lower cost over time

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 6):
Ok, call me ignorant, but why did Boeing remove the eyebrow windows from all of the new production NG 737s? Were they not needed anymore (and if so, why?)? Does it save Boeing and airlines money? Why are they gone?

It saves the airlines money from both a weight and MX standpoint.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 6):
It made every aircraft with them (707, 727, 737) look "Boeing"...

Douglas aircraft had them too
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OPNLguy
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:42 pm

Quoting Seven3seven (Reply 5):
why the hell would they take the eyebrows OUT? waste of money.

I can see not installing them but going out of your way to remove them seems stupid

I think it was 737doctor who, some time ago, detailed the steps in replacing an eyebrow window when it was cracked etc. That's also a waste of money, i.e. fixing something that really no longer serves any purpose, other than keeping the aircraft pressurized.

Pulling aircraft off the line and out of revenue service solely to remove/plug the eyebrow windws would indeed be stupid. Doing so as an additional work card item in a planned heavy check is pretty smart.
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studentflyer
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:01 pm

Sorry for being an ignorant, but what was the actual purpose of these eyebrow windows?
 
N1120A
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:10 pm

Quoting StudentFlyer (Reply 9):
Sorry for being an ignorant, but what was the actual purpose of these eyebrow windows?

Navigation
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Silver1SWA
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:17 pm

Wow, thanks for the update! I was just thinking about this the other day. Finally something to keep an eye out for. It's been a while since we've had a fleet update worth looking out for.  bigthumbsup 

Off topic, but I have seen quite a few of our -700s missing the red "flap"/gear door that hangs over the main landing gear. Anyone know why? I heard it has something to do with a lot of them being cracked. I'd imagine having them removed creates a drag penalty...
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barney captain
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:24 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Quoting StudentFlyer (Reply 9):
Sorry for being an ignorant, but what was the actual purpose of these eyebrow windows?

Navigation

I'm fairly certain the primary purpose was to see/avoid other aircraft. This of course long before the concept of TCAS.
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studentflyer
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:17 pm

Hi N1120A and Barney Captain,

Thanks for the answers. It makes more sense to me now. I do believe that both of them are the main reason for it being there. As you said, with the advent of both GPS and TCAS, they are no longer needed, so that it could be eliminated and save more money.

Cheers
 
dacman
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:53 pm

I did a story for Airways or Airliners magazine, I can't remember which on the removal of the "eye brow" windows. Originally the idea for them was to allow the pilots to be able to keep a visual on the runway when in a turn, but when studies were conducted by Douglas it was determined that the normal length of time for line of sight to the runway using the windows was approx. 2 seconds, not that useful.

The Boeing 717 (MD-95) was the first model to have the windows removed, shaving 60 pounds (both) from the OEW and significantly reducing maintenance costs.

As we only get -700s in SNA, guess I'll have to watch for it at LAX.

Thanks for the info.

Mike (WN Ops SNA)
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WNCrew
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RE: WN 300's With Plugged Eye Brow Windows

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:37 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 11):
Off topic, but I have seen quite a few of our -700s missing the red "flap"/gear door that hangs over the main landing gear. Anyone know why? I heard it has something to do with a lot of them being cracked. I'd imagine having them removed creates a drag penalty...

Don't know why but just the other day I was working mid-cabin and I noticed a strange vibration and noise, I reported it to the capt. and he said it was b/c we were missing those doors/flaps/covers...he also thanked us for being astute enough to notice it and bring it to his attention.
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