redflyer
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Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:20 am

Apparently they've sold only 6 aircraft in May. Are they saving for Farnborough? If they are, will they catch up to or surpass Boeing in the orders count?
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
will they catch up to or surpass Boeing in the orders count?

Is it going to rain in Toulouse tomorrow?  yawn 

[Edited 2006-06-07 21:28:25]
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
If they are, will they catch up to or surpass Boeing in the orders count?

Doubt they will... And yes they are saving orders just like they did 31st Dec. 05.

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 2):
Yeah...saving orders for toilet paper from them sh*ting their pants when Boeing comes out with a ton of orders Big grin

LMAO... Good one just what I needed before I go to work here. Big grin

Only time and the Airshow will tell the story.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
11Bravo
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Thread starter):
Apparently they've sold only 6 aircraft in May. Are they saving for Farnborough?

I'm sure they are saving orders, they always do for the big shows.

It seems to me though that lots of people here expect that Airbus is going to announce one or even two new aircraft types (A350x/A370) along with a whole bunch of big launch orders for QR, SQ, EK, etc.

That seems like such an unrealistic expectation to me. I look forward to seeing what Airbus is going to do here, but I'll be very surprised if we see any major orders for the new aircraft.

On the Boeing side, I think it's possible we might see the formal launch of the B787-10, and/or a decision on increased B787 production. It's probably a bit early for either of those announcements, but it's possible.
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Rheinbote
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:54 am

EADS may announce that LockheedMartin will take the 20% stake in Airbus abandoned by BAE Systems.
The UAE may announce that they'll take 15% EADS shares sold off by Lagardére and DaimlerChrysler...or Russia, or the Chinese do.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 4):
It's probably a bit early for either of those announcements, but it's possible.

 tongue 
 
redflyer
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 4):
On the Boeing side, I think it's possible we might see the formal launch of the B787-10

Year end is what I read somewhere.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 4):
a decision on increased B787 production.

Very likely. In fact, I'm willing to bet QR will be the deciding factor on whether or not they start a 2nd line. I'd bet Boeing has told them they will open a 2nd line if they order the 787 helping to speed up deliveries to them.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 4):
That seems like such an unrealistic expectation to me. I look forward to seeing what Airbus is going to do here, but I'll be very surprised if we see any major orders for the new aircraft.

So what do you think will be the major orders that they've sand-bagged thus far and will announce at the airshow?

They've booked a total of six frames in May, 3 from private buyers, and only one of them was a wide-body (again, a private buyer). Given that their wide-body line is not doing well, I suspect they will announce some large orders for the new 350/370.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 5):
EADS may announce that LockheedMartin will take the 20% stake in Airbus abandoned by BAE Systems.

Interesting theory, my theory is that BAE and Lockheed might jump into bed.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
Lumberton
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 4):
On the Boeing side, I think it's possible we might see the formal launch of the B787-10, and/or a decision on increased B787 production. It's probably a bit early for either of those announcements, but it's possible.

Maybe even some 748 pax?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 7):
Interesting theory, my theory is that BAE and Lockheed might jump into bed.

True, LockMart is a gorgeous bride, but BAE doesn't exactly look like a handsome husband from here - ever heard about the Nimrod MRA program?

While we are at it - LockMart is awash in top-notch engineering capabilities desperately sought by both A and B right now. Makes me wonder who'll be first to find out?
Likewise, Embraer looks like an attractive partner to both A and B. Fully up to Boeing's standards in digital product definition and global collaborative network infrastructure, and familiar with Japanese partners. OTOH, EADS already has a token share in that company.
Personally, I'd love to see Dassault taking the 15% of EADS shares and/or 20% of Airbus shares currently at stake. If anything comes near Skunk Works in Europe, it's probably Dassault.

[Edited 2006-06-07 23:21:24]
 
Ken777
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:58 am

What's an air show without Airbus pulling out a surprise or two? I would look for a formal 370 announcement, along with at least one LOI (just for the heck of it), some nice 320 orders and, with luck, at least one 380 order - even if it is a small one.

On the Boeing side I would look for the 787 production ramp (if it hasn't been announced by then) maybe with LOIs from a few airlines, an announcement of who bought the 20 777s and the 747 - especially if the 747s are 748i's. They might even throw in a small 777 upgrade if Airbus announces the 370 - just to throw off the stats that Airbus will be presenting.

Then, of course, there will probably be a visit by the 380 to keep things interesting.
 
11Bravo
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 6):
So what do you think will be the major orders that they've sand-bagged thus far and will announce at the airshow?

I have no idea honestly; probably some narrowbody orders?, A330 follow ons?, A380?, some new start-up ordering 50 airframes? I'm sure they'll come up with something; they always do. We'll likely hear some rumors in the next two weeks or so.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
What's an air show without Airbus pulling out a surprise or two?

 checkmark 

The one other observation I'll make is that we aviation enthusiasts got really spoiled with the number of orders last year. That sort of activity simply isn't sustainable. We should expect to see some slim pickins at the airshows, and in general, for the next few years.

As I said in another forum, Airbus can't continue to sell aircraft at three times their rate of production. That's true of Boeing as well. At some point Orders=Production. If you're going to rack up 1000 orders in a year, you're gonna have to match that with some lean order years for it to balance out.
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katekebo
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:20 am

Airbus could announce the launch of a A350/370 program that will replace their current A330/340 line. The A350 would the smaller of the two, covering from 250 to 350 seats, with the smaller version intended for mid- and long-range operations, and the bigger one being a mid-range airplane. The A370 will have a bigger/reinforced wing, more powerfull engines, and will cover from 350 to 450 seats, with long-range and ultra-long-range versions. They will share common fuselage, outer wing sections and flight-deck. The A350 could be ready 6 years from now, while the A370 will come 2 years later.

IMHO this would be the right product strategy to compete against the B787, B777 and B747-8.

The issues that Airbus has to address are:
- How to make the A350 superior to the B787 - doable, but not an easy task.
- Financing - such program could easily cost $10b or more.
- It gives the B787 a head-start and uncontested leadership for 3-4 years, and offers little competition to the B777-300ER and B747-8 for even longer time.

However, it would give Airbus a truelly superior product line-up some 8 years from now and force Boeing to come up with Y3 right after the B787.

Airbus has to bite the bullet and make a bold move. Otherwise they will just loose more and more ground in the widebody market.
 
echster
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 6):
Very likely. In fact, I'm willing to bet QR will be the deciding factor on whether or not they start a 2nd line. I'd bet Boeing has told them they will open a 2nd line if they order the 787 helping to speed up deliveries to them.

Anyone care to answer this for me? If Boeing opens a 2nd line because of demand, would customers who've already ordered get 1st dibs on those slots, or would they offer them to other airlines?
 
mptpa
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 12):
The A370 will have a bigger/reinforced wing, more powerfull engines, and will cover from 350 to 450 seats, with long-range and ultra-long-range versions. They will share common fuselage, outer wing sections and flight-deck. The A350 could be ready 6 years from now, while the A370 will come 2 years later.

Even though this may make sense in terms of product lineup, I do not see how Airbus can pull this. The cost of doing 350 and 370 would be much greater that $10B....

Quoting Echster (Reply 13):
Anyone care to answer this for me? If Boeing opens a 2nd line because of demand, would customers who've already ordered get 1st dibs on those slots, or would they offer them to other airlines?

The carriers are tied to the contracts, and they have to plan this ahead in terms of logistics, finacing, training, crew, etc. So Boeing might accomodate some requests...
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting Echster (Reply 13):
Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 6):
Very likely. In fact, I'm willing to bet QR will be the deciding factor on whether or not they start a 2nd line. I'd bet Boeing has told them they will open a 2nd line if they order the 787 helping to speed up deliveries to them.

Anyone care to answer this for me? If Boeing opens a 2nd line because of demand, would customers who've already ordered get 1st dibs on those slots, or would they offer them to other airlines?

Here's the way I see it:

Hypothetically, if there were orders for 400 aircraft, and 100 planes could be built per year, then it would take 4 years from the start of production before #401 hits the line. (For this example, we'll call this aircraft #1 for Qantas).

Now, say Boeing decides to split the line, bringing the total production rate to 200 per year. How long would it take Qantas' #1 to hit the line, with the same backlog of 400 aircraft? Only Two years now.

So even though they'd still be at the rear of the backlog, their first deliveries would occur a heck of a lot sooner than if Boeing stays with only one production line. I'd see it as a win-win situation for both parties: Boeing gets a major order from a high-profile customer (with assuredly more to follow due to the significantly reduced backlog time), and Qantas gets their hardware far sooner than expected at steal price for "launching" the second production line.
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aeropiggot
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:58 am

Quote:
Quoting Katekebo (Reply 12):
The A370 will have a bigger/reinforced wing, more powerfull engines, and will cover from 350 to 450 seats, with long-range and ultra-long-range versions. They will share common fuselage, outer wing sections and flight-deck. The A350 could be ready 6 years from now, while the A370 will come 2 years later.

This again is the same comprimised design airbus made on the A330/A340 project, and look what the 777 did to these offerings. You cannot fully optimise an airplane to fulfil that range of requirements, and hope to compete with a fully optimised product (787). A dual product launch after the A380 is doubtful. A simple A330 re-engine, and a A370 launch, makes more sense.   

[Edited 2006-06-08 05:03:25]
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blueflyer
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 15):
Boeing gets a major order from a high-profile customer (with assuredly more to follow due to the significantly reduced backlog time), and Qantas gets their hardware far sooner than expected at steal price for "launching" the second production line.

That is, assuming Qantas wants their hardware sooner than expected. For a number of reasons, some airlines are not necessarily in a position to want their aircraft sooner rather than later.
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PADSpot
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:28 pm

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 5):
EADS may announce that LockheedMartin will take the 20% stake in Airbus abandoned by BAE Systems.

EADS chief executive Enders already anounced in an interview that EADS is going to take the BAe share by themselves ...
 
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glideslope
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
What's an air show without Airbus pulling out a surprise or two?

That's an easy one. Farnborough 06. The magitian has no more rabbits in their hat.  Smile
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astuteman
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 9):
but BAE doesn't exactly look like a handsome husband from here - ever heard about the Nimrod MRA program?

So easy to forget about JSF, Eurofighter, Hawk, and a plethora of high quality upgrades to existing equipment, isn't it?  Smile
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:29 pm

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 9):
If anything comes near Skunk Works in Europe, it's probably Dassault.

Word has just come out that the 7x has exceeded all expectations range wise. Out of nowhere it will be competing with the G550 and Global XR. Awesome!
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RichardPrice
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 20):

So easy to forget about JSF, Eurofighter, Hawk, and a plethora of high quality upgrades to existing equipment, isn't it?

Not to mention the Saab Gripen project - BAE was a major player in that aircrafts development.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:04 pm

Airbus, being the order sandbaggers that they are, will announce something at the show, no doubt.
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deltadc9
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 8):
While we are at it - LockMart is awash in top-notch engineering capabilities desperately sought by both A and B right now. Makes me wonder who'll be first to find out?

Boeing and Lockheed are the aviation equivalent of Romeo and Juliet, they might want each other, but higher powers will not allow the union since there are only two biggies left in the US. Also, I think some here forget that Lockheed is the aerospace technology leader in the US, not Boeing.

Also, on topic, I am wondering if Boeing might at some point try to beat Airbus at their own air show game just for the PR. Kicking Airbus while they are "down" is not below Boeing at all, if they see Benoit in it.
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airmailer
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting PADSpot (Reply 17):
EADS chief executive Enders already anounced in an interview that EADS is going to take the BAe share by themselves ...

... IIRC isn't EADS turning around and selling off a boatload (or 3) of EADS shares to French Banks?

If not wouldn't that put a damper on their cash supply for new projects?
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 19):
So easy to forget about [...] , Eurofighter, Hawk, and a plethora of high quality upgrades to existing equipment, isn't it?

Wouldn't it make sense to differentiate between now and back then, or between BAE and BAe?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 23):
Boeing and Lockheed are the aviation equivalent of Romeo and Juliet, they might want each other, but higher powers will not allow the union since there are only two biggies left in the US. Also, I think some here forget that Lockheed is the aerospace technology leader in the US, not Boeing.

Actually, Northrop-Grumman is not exactly small potatoes. In 2004, Lockheed did $34bil in defense business, Boeing did $30.4bil, and Northrop did $22bil. For that matter, BAe did $20bil, Raytheon did $19bil, and General Dynamics did $15bil. EADS and Honeywell both did about $10bil. They get a lot smaller below that.

My point being that while Lockheed and Boeing are the two big dogs worldwide, the second tier is very strong and not that much smaller. I could see BAe combining with Northrop, Raytheon, or General Dynamics far more easily than they could with Lockheed or Boeing. There'd be divestitures in both cases, but it'd have to be major ones in the case of a BAe/Lockheed or BAe/Boeing combination. BAe and one of the second-tier players (other than EADS) would give you a first-rate player bigger than Lockheed. I leave EADS out because there are many reasons why I don't believe that particular combination will occur.

Source: Defense News Top 100
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redflyer
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:38 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 11):
it would give Airbus a truelly superior product line-up some 8 years from now and force Boeing to come up with Y3 right after the B787.

8 years from now is a long time away. That would make the 777 family over 20 years old, which would make it ready for replacement or a major upgrade. Therefore, I don't think it would "force" Boeing into anything unexpected.

On the contrary, I see a good head-to-head competition brewing between Airbus' 370 and Boeing's Y3. Both will probably incorporate like-technologies and specifications. Unfortunately for Airbus, they've ceded the next 6-8 years to Boeing. Nothing disastrous or unprecedented. The same thing happened to Boeing when Airbus came out with the 330 and effectively squashed the 767 for almost a decade.
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cloud4000
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:33 am

Lockheed and Airbus seems like a natural fit. By having Lockheed as a partner, Airbus hopes to score some defence contracts from the United States, including refueling aircraft.
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DeltaSFO
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:48 am

Quoting Echster (Reply 12):
If Boeing opens a 2nd line because of demand, would customers who've already ordered get 1st dibs on those slots, or would they offer them to other airlines?

It would probably result in some improvements for existing customers, but I am aware that Boeing is using the 2nd line and its resulting delivery slot improvements as a carrot to try to bring aboard some established Boeing customers who have not yet stepped up.

[Edited 2006-06-08 20:50:01]
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dbo861
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 13):
Quoting Katekebo (Reply 12):
The A370 will have a bigger/reinforced wing, more powerfull engines, and will cover from 350 to 450 seats, with long-range and ultra-long-range versions. They will share common fuselage, outer wing sections and flight-deck. The A350 could be ready 6 years from now, while the A370 will come 2 years later.

Even though this may make sense in terms of product lineup, I do not see how Airbus can pull this. The cost of doing 350 and 370 would be much greater that $10B....



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 27):
On the contrary, I see a good head-to-head competition brewing between Airbus' 370 and Boeing's Y3. Both will probably incorporate like-technologies and specifications. Unfortunately for Airbus, they've ceded the next 6-8 years to Boeing. Nothing disastrous or unprecedented. The same thing happened to Boeing when Airbus came out with the 330 and effectively squashed the 767 for almost a decade.

Either way, I think Boeing is in the best position right now. With Airbus spending so much money on their A380 coming out as well as the A350/A370, they'll be cash strapped for the next coming years from the billions of dollars in R&D on these three projects. As stated earlier, when the A370 would potentially be launched, Boeing could be ready for a 777 revamp or a launch of their Y3, while the 787 is also going strong. This way, Boeing could potentially one-up the A350/370 with the 777NG or Y3. At the same time Boeing could have a launch of Y1 in the works, beating Airbus to the A320NG launch by a couple of years.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 26):
Actually, Northrop-Grumman is not exactly small potatoes.

No they are not, but they are a part of Lockheed. There really is no second tier now.

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NYC777
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:21 am

Northrup-Grumman and Lockheed-Martin are two seperate, independent and distinct companies.
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deltadc9
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 32):
Northrup-Grumman and Lockheed-Martin are two seperate, independent and distinct companies.

We are talking about aerospace, not shipbuilding etc. They are no longer a significant player in fixed wing aircraft excpet maybe Global Hawk. The merger was killed after the chart, this is true, but they are not Jack Northrups company anymore.

As far as the diagram, there should effectively be a dead end now for Northrup.

Northrup now does these things:

Electronics
IT
Systems support and integration
Shipbiulding
Space systems
Unmanned Aircraft

Aerospace is no longer their thing really.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
astuteman
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 25):
Wouldn't it make sense to differentiate between now and back then, or between BAE and BAe?

Please forgive me if I've missed your point, Rheinbote, but from a combat aircraft point of view, AFAIK, the change from Bae to BAE SYSTEMS had no impact whatsoever.
The principal outcome was the amalgamation of some fairly major defence electronics firms, RO and GEC armaments, and of course BAE SYSTEMS also inherited GEC-Marconi's shipyards and their programmes, including my beloved Astute (the issues with which BAE SYSTEMS have been unfairly saddled with - Astute was in trouble long before BAES got hold of it  weeping  Wink.

Regards
 
art
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting AeroPiggot (Reply 15):
A simple A330 re-engine, and a A370 launch, makes more sense.

Makes sense to me. I don't see how Airbus could go A350 + A370. Offers the A330 the opportunity to be decimated rather than annihilated, too.
 
787engineer
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 3):
It seems to me though that lots of people here expect that Airbus is going to announce one or even two new aircraft types (A350x/A370) along with a whole bunch of big launch orders for QR, SQ, EK, etc.

That seems like such an unrealistic expectation to me. I look forward to seeing what Airbus is going to do here, but I'll be very surprised if we see any major orders for the new aircraft.

Well an A350/A370 project similar to Boeing's 757/767 (one with wider fuselage) might be perfect answer to the 777's and 787's success. We don't know for sure if the 787 will be a success, but the sales thus far make it a winner. Whether Airbus has the resources, money and engineering, to pull this off is another issue. I think most airlines will be a little cautious about this new offering from A, simply because of the A380 delay/weight issues and the A350's slight delays (admittedly for common cockpit), higher weight and thus worse performance (compared to the 787).

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 11):
Airbus could announce the launch of a A350/370 program that will replace their current A330/340 line. The A350 would the smaller of the two, covering from 250 to 350 seats, with the smaller version intended for mid- and long-range operations, and the bigger one being a mid-range airplane. The A370 will have a bigger/reinforced wing, more powerfull engines, and will cover from 350 to 450 seats, with long-range and ultra-long-range versions. They will share common fuselage, outer wing sections and flight-deck. The A350 could be ready 6 years from now, while the A370 will come 2 years later.

Even if Airbus goes with a A350/370 idea they probably won't share a common fuselage, and thus have a different wing too. The A350/370 will be more like the 757/767 than the A330/A340 programs. It is almost (can never say for sure in this industry  Wink) impossible for one fuselage cross-section to be efficient in transporting 250-450 passengers. 8Y is great for 225-350 pax, but you need at least 9Y (probably 10Y) for 350-450 pax.

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 14):

Hypothetically, if there were orders for 400 aircraft, and 100 planes could be built per year, then it would take 4 years from the start of production before #401 hits the line. (For this example, we'll call this aircraft #1 for Qantas).

Now, say Boeing decides to split the line, bringing the total production rate to 200 per year. How long would it take Qantas' #1 to hit the line, with the same backlog of 400 aircraft? Only Two years now.

One thing you're missing is that the second 787 line will not start at the same time as the first. There are alot of issues in starting up a new line; it's best to work out all the problems, and apply the lessons learned to the second line. There's also a tooling production issue. Obviously you can't start both lines simultaneously if you only have enough tools for one line. Tools take time to produce, and through wear and tear the tools will change, and thus will likely be redesigned (slightly) so the line can be even more efficient.

Quoting AeroPiggot (Reply 15):
A simple A330 re-engine, and a A370 launch, makes more sense.

I agree, why offer a A330 replacement/competitor when the A330 is still going pretty strong, especially the A332.
 
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RE: Airbus Saving Orders For Airshow

Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 33):
We are talking about aerospace, not shipbuilding etc. They are no longer a significant player in fixed wing aircraft excpet maybe Global Hawk. The merger was killed after the chart, this is true, but they are not Jack Northrups company anymore.

Northrop is a major player in the UAV space, and I'm not just talking about Global Hawk. If people are right that the F-35 is "the last manned fighter aircraft," or even mostly right, then Northrop is very well-placed for future defense sales. In this sense, Northrop is actually somewhat better placed than Lockheed, primarily as a result of the Teledyne Ryan acquisition.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt