NYC777
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Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:13 am

Boeing added 58 orders among them:

CO for 13 787 and 26 737s
Sky Airlines for 3 737-900ERs
CX exercise of 2 777-300ER options (can the 20 777s be QR?)

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

[Edited 2006-06-08 17:19:03]
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deltadc9
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:29 am

405 confirmed orders is amazing after last year

103 wide bodies, even more amazing, more than Airbuses total sales to date.

The 747 is selling at or above production rate, and the 767 even got orders from 2 airlines.

302 737s is very unexpected to say the least, but it is a very good plane.

[Edited 2006-06-08 17:38:23]
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
n844aa
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:31 am

Congratulations to CO on their order. Two of the three Texas airlines are healthy and ordering planes, and the third isn't doing too bad either -- I can't wait until they start buying the 787.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
7e72004
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:41 am

I think the 737 is a great plane...you can fly long and short distances with them.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
katekebo
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:43 am

Regarding CO order.... The news released talked about 10 B787s and 24 B737s airplanes, but the orders sheet shows 13 and 26, respectively. Why the difference?
 
deltadc9
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting 7E72004 (Reply 3):
I think the 737 is a great plane...you can fly long and short distances with them.

I agree, I just thought that the airlines quenched thier thirst last year.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
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STT757
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 4):
Regarding CO order.... The news releasedntalked about 10 B787s and 24 B737s airplanes, but the orders sheetnshows 13 and 26, respectively. Why the difference?

In 2004 CO ordered 10 787-800s, up until this week only 7 of those commitments were finalized. This latest CO 787 order firmed up the three remaining from their 2004 order plus an additional 10 787s.

They now have a total of 20 firm orders for 787s.
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n844aa
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 5):
I agree, I just thought that the airlines quenched thier thirst last year.

It seems that some airlines quenched their thirst for some other aircraft in, oh, the first three weeks of January or thereabouts.  wink 
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
grantcv
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 1):
103 wide bodies, even more amazing, more than Airbuses total sales to date.

We have to wait till after Farnborough to know what Airbus has sold.
 
mrcomet
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:10 am

There's a bunch more 737 UFOs as well - I count 11 added. That's 72 total which is a lot of UFOs. Maybe some are set for announcements at the Farnsborough Air Show to counter any Airbus announcements.
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kappel
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 1):
103 wide bodies, even more amazing, more than Airbuses total sales to date.

Well, almost. Airus has 105 total orders this year. Not that remarkable compared to Boeing indeed. If they don't have something up their sleeve at Farnborough, they will most likely cede the salescrown to Boeing this year. We will just have to wait and see.
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N328KF
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 2:35 am

On top of all of this, every single A350 order is in flux (whether Airbus admits it or not) so that could be a potential step backwards by that many frames (though it is unlikely that they would lose all of those.)
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Glom
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:20 am

Finally! I was waiting for Boeing to update that page.
 
kappel
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 11):
every single A350 order is in flux

Not entirely true. Finnair stated that they aren't bothered by this. That's from Finnair themselves, not Airbus. US Airways also stated they are not worried. From a couple others nothing has been heard in the media (like TAM and TAM), so we can only speculate about them. Main problem for Airbus is QR, especially since it has not been firmed up yet.
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ikramerica
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 13):
US Airways also stated they are not worried.

No, they said they don't really care what happens to the A350, not that they will take them no matter what. That's a big difference.

US doesn't really need A350s anyway (no need for the range...), and if they have to take discounted A330s instead, US would do it happily, now that their loan is repaid to Airbus.
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flydreamliner
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 8):
We have to wait till after Farnborough to know what Airbus has sold.

No kidding, Airbus is big on grandstanding with orders at flight shows. Farnborough will be especially interesting this year, for more reasons than one...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
No, they said they don't really care what happens to the A350, not that they will take them no matter what. That's a big difference.

US doesn't really need A350s anyway (no need for the range...), and if they have to take discounted A330s instead, US would do it happily, now that their loan is repaid to Airbus.

Those A350s aren't in any real need, they were more a product of Airbus's exit finanacing for US. They are in no hurry to get new or more widebody jets anyhow.
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kappel
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
No, they said they don't really care what happens to the A350, not that they will take them no matter what. That's a big difference.

Granted, but they aren't (openly) threatening Airbus that they cancel the order either, which was the point I was making. N328KF implied that every order was 'in flux', but that is simply not true, besides other airlines have not said anything, so there is no way for us to know what they have told Airbus about these developments.
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slz396
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:56 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 1):
302 737s is very unexpected to say the least, but it is a very good plane.

Absolutely amazing, although the fact the A320 production line is reported to be (almost) fully packed for the coming years will also have contributed to the success of the 737NG this year. I do not want to do any dishonour to the 737 itself, but it is quite significant to see it surge of orders the year AFTER the A320 sold roughly 900 copies!

How long would you have to wait if you were to replace let's say 30 or so MD-80/737/A320 with an equal number of either 737NG or A320? Anybody has a good idea for both A and B? I think delivery dates are starting to play a big factor in deciding for the 737NG...

Again, no bashing intended, just trying to understand the reasons behind the numbers.

[Edited 2006-06-09 13:57:49]
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 17):
Absolutely amazing, although the fact the A320 production line is reported to be (almost) fully packed for the coming years will also have contributed to the success of the 737NG this year. I do not want to do any dishonour to the 737 itself, but it is quite significant to see it surge of orders the year AFTER the A320 sold roughly 900 copies!

How long would you have to wait if you were to replace let's say 30 or so MD-80/737/A320 with an equal number of either 737NG or A320? Anybody has a good idea for both A and B? I think delivery dates are starting to play a big factor in deciding for the 737NG...

Again, no bashing intended, just trying to understand the reasons behind the numbers.

You're tottaly off. Take a lookat Boeing's order sheet and you'll see that the 737 sales are driven by existing customer not due to lack of delivery slots for the A320. The 737 sales are due to the fact that customers want the 737 over the A320.
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brendows
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:11 pm

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 4):
Regarding CO order.... The news released talked about 10 B787s and 24 B737s airplanes, but the orders sheet shows 13 and 26, respectively. Why the difference?

Here's why the orders sheet shows 26 737s:
An order for two 73Gs was placed on the 31st of March this year, and they have been listed as UFO until now  Smile
 
slz396
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:15 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
Take a lookat Boeing's order sheet and you'll see that the 737 sales are driven by existing customer not due to lack of delivery slots for the A320. The 737 sales are due to the fact that customers want the 737 over the A320.

Don't feel so quickly attacked, just because I dare to state the 737NG might be selling so strong because it is 'second best', with the 'best' not available within a reasonable time frame no more...

Anyway, most of the 737NG orders have in fact been follow up orders if I understand you correctly? Well, in that case it is logic to see them ordering more of what they already have, since the 737NG is a very good plane indeed.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:21 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 17):
Absolutely amazing, although the fact the A320 production line is reported to be (almost) fully packed for the coming years will also have contributed to the success of the 737NG this year. I do not want to do any dishonour to the 737 itself, but it is quite significant to see it surge of orders the year AFTER the A320 sold roughly 900 copies!



Quoting NYC777 (Reply 18):
You're tottaly off. Take a lookat Boeing's order sheet and you'll see that the 737 sales are driven by existing customer not due to lack of delivery slots for the A320. The 737 sales are due to the fact that customers want the 737 over the A320.

He should consider another alternative explanation: Airbus was desperate to win the orders race last year so they sold A320s at firesale prices, as that was the only aircraft that they could sell large numbers of to meet Boeing's more balanced portfolio.  Smile

By the way, if Airbus has to cancel the current A350, should we put an asterix next to last years orders race win for a new reason, that the numbers included orders for an aircraft that apparently is not going to see the light of day.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
manni
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:37 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 17):

How long would you have to wait if you were to replace let's say 30 or so MD-80/737/A320 with an equal number of either 737NG or A320? Anybody has a good idea for both A and B?

You make a very valid point when you say that the lack of available A320 slots slows down her sales numbers. Here's just one example.

Ural Airlines wanted to purchase 2 new A320's, but because Airbus could not deliver them before 2009, they decided to lease them.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=6%2F5%2F2006
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slz396
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:43 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 21):
He should consider another alternative explanation: Airbus was desperate to win the orders race last year so they sold A320s at firesale prices, as that was the only aircraft that they could sell large numbers of to meet Boeing's more balanced portfolio.

That's a claim which has been coming back for more than 2 decades now, but each year EADS post really good audited annual results, mainly thanks to Airbus SAS. Obviously, what they did last year will only be verifiable in the future, but until then I'd be reluctant to state such things, based on their continued double digit profit margins from the past.

Besides, I was just applying a general thought: in times of great imbalance between demand and availability, the 'second best' will match and possibly outsell the 'best' once its production has reached max capacity.

It was a logic I have seen used many times to state the A350 might pick up orders once the 787 production line has been fully sold (and in case no second line would be opened), and in my humble opinion we see (or will soon see) it being demonstrated by the 737NG too.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 21):
By the way, if Airbus has to cancel the current A350, should we put an asterix next to last years orders race win for a new reason, that the numbers included orders for an aircraft that apparently is not going to see the light of day.

Does the order count of a year from the past normally gets corrected retro-actively if X years down the road it appears not all planes ordered then are actually delivered? I thought the order count was CLOSED on December 31st of any given year and represented the legally binding intentions of airlines made public in that year, not their actual taking of the planes: for that you'd need to look at deliveries... But I doubt that would be more favourable for B, as they will have a hard time outdoing A on that front this decade, since deliveries always lag on sales.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 23):
That's a claim which has been coming back for more than 2 decades now, but each year EADS post really good audited annual results, mainly thanks to Airbus SAS. Obviously, what they did last year will only be verifiable in the future, but until then I'd be reluctant to state such things, based on their continued double digit profit margins from the past.

Besides, I was just applying a general thought: in times of great imbalance between demand and availability, the 'second best' will match and possibly outsell the 'best' once its production has reached max capacity.

I think the lack of orders for Airbus in the first half of this year compared to December for last is a strong indication that they were competing for the record. They drained the pipeline of things that would have been booked in the course of the following year. They also had the advantage of booking their Chinese order for 150 A320s all last year. Boeing booked 50 of the 70 announced last year in 2005, and has so far in 2006 booked only 70 of the 150 orders (though they could already be UFOs, so they might have booked more). Any evaluation of the competitiveness of the 737 versus A320 based on 2005 results is going to be less than informative due to Airbus's desire to book A320 orders in 2005 to win the crown. I suspect the two year totals at the end of this year will be very close for the A320 and the 737.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 23):
Does the order count of a year from the past normally gets corrected retro-actively if X years down the road it appears not all planes ordered then are actually delivered? I thought the order count was CLOSED on December 31st of any given year and represented the legally binding intentions of airlines made public in that year, not their actual taking of the planes: for that you'd need to look at deliveries... But I doubt that would be more favourable for B, as they will have a hard time outdoing A on that front this decade, since deliveries always lag on sales.

That's why I said put an asterix next to it. The number is in the books, but if it is partly based on a program that never sees the light of day, the meaningfulness of that number is less.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 24):
That's why I said put an asterix next to it. The number is in the books, but if it is partly based on a program that never sees the light of day, the meaningfulness of that number is less.

Since it's the A350, that number would not be very meaningful to Airbus' overall order numbers for 2005 if it were dropped!
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
11Bravo
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 24):
That's why I said put an asterix next to it. The number is in the books, but if it is partly based on a program that never sees the light of day, the meaningfulness of that number is less.

The orders were/are legitimate. The 2005 numbers are what they are.

That being said, when/if Airbus does launch a new A350, it will nullify those 100 orders and they should be subtracted from the 2006 net orders. Then as customers sign orders for the new aircraft, they can be added back in once the orders are firmed up again.

It would be very dishonest for Airbus to keep those orders on the books, as firm orders, in the interim. Once the plans for the existing A350 are officially axed in favor of the new A350, all the firm order contracts for that aircraft become null and void. The program is cancelled and a new one takes its place.
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jacobin777
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 26):
That being said, when/if Airbus does launch a new A350, it will nullify those 100 orders and they should be subtracted from the 2006 net orders. Then as customers sign orders for the new aircraft, they can be added back in once the orders are firmed up again.

It would be very dishonest for Airbus to keep those orders on the books, as firm orders, in the interim. Once the plans for the existing A350 are officially axed in favor of the new A350, all the firm order contracts for that aircraft become null and void. The program is cancelled and a new one takes its place.

not if customers such as UA/HP are fine with what they have signed for......I see no reason why they should be taken off the books....will they be renegotiated, possibly..but that's about it...IMHO...
"Up the Irons!"
 
katekebo
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:50 am

I'm sure this will make most of you laugh (and bring a smile on the face of even most staunch Airbus supporters on this forum)

A little over two years ago, in February 2004 ....

[QUOTE}Boeing will sell no more passenger 747s and only a handful of 7E7s," according to Airbus Chief Commercial Officer John Leahy. In full flight after jetting across the world to tout Airbus's success in the commercial field, Leahy told ATWOnline that he would be very worried if he was Boeing: "Nobody is raising their hands for the 7E7." He also confidently predicted that the A330-200 will see the 7E7 off. "It [the 7E7] is certainly better than the 767 but we will not have to update our aircraft to compete," he claimed.[/QUOTE]
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:57 am

Boy did Johnny boy change his tune but quick!!!
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787engineer
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 20):

Don't feel so quickly attacked, just because I dare to state the 737NG might be selling so strong because it is 'second best', with the 'best' not available within a reasonable time frame no more...

Anyway, most of the 737NG orders have in fact been follow up orders if I understand you correctly? Well, in that case it is logic to see them ordering more of what they already have, since the 737NG is a very good plane indeed.

An easy way to settle this slight squabble is to just look at the backlogs. The A320 has about a 1600 frame backlog (from the orders/deliveries number on airbus's website). The 737 has a backlog of about 1275, so the difference is about 325 frames. At a production rate of 25 frames/month (?), the Airbus backlog is a little over a year longer than Boeing's. I guess in some cases a year makes a big difference. Whether a customer decides to get a 737 or A320 also depends on whether or not they already own either or both aircraft in their fleet, and the avaliability of the aircraft they want on the leasing market.

[Edited 2006-06-09 21:54:36]
 
PennPal
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 22):
You make a very valid point when you say that the lack of available A320 slots slows down her sales numbers. Here's just one example.

Ural Airlines wanted to purchase 2 new A320's, but because Airbus could not deliver them before 2009, they decided to lease them.

Using that train of thought, isn't it true that numerous airlines (Air Berlin, easyJet, jetBlue, Frontier, Spirit to name a few) ALL preferred the 737 over the A320 but chose the Airbus product because of the unavailability of the Boeing and/or their unwillingness to negotiate the price???
 
manni
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RE: Boeing Adds 58 Orders Week Of 6/7/06

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting PennPal (Reply 31):
Using that train of thought, isn't it true that numerous airlines (Air Berlin, easyJet, jetBlue, Frontier, Spirit to name a few) ALL preferred the 737 over the A320 but chose the Airbus product because of the unavailability of the Boeing and/or their unwillingness to negotiate the price???

Why name a few and not all? Also, be kind enough to provide some links to back up these claims.
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