PRAirbus
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VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:39 pm

Sadly, the moment of truth might have arrived for this icon...unfortunately no one but a group of employees made a last bid for the airline and it came short of the minimum US$700 million for the domestic operations. It will be up to the Judge to decide. I guess, to avoid major political fall-out, the Judge might let the employees take over and let fate run its final course. What a shame...let's hope someone buys the name and resurrects this icon. The end is near.
 
maperrin
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Fri Jun 09, 2006 9:55 pm

You are right. The end is near, whatever the way it takes to get there. Competitors are just reacting normally: if Varig stops flying, passengers will have to migrate anyway. Why to pay for Varig then ? And employees are playing a dirty game, as VARIG ows them more money than they intend to pay. We have been told that Brazilian Gvt. has a B Plan, if Varig stops flying, that includes a secret agreement with 1)GOL+TAM (domestic flights + international) 2)Star alliance airlines (LH/UA/TP) flying to Brazil from other international destinations. I hope so !
 
Querosene
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting Maperrin (Reply 1):
We have been told that Brazilian Gvt. has a B Plan, if Varig stops flying, that includes a secret agreement with 1)GOL+TAM (domestic flights + international) 2)Star alliance airlines (LH/UA/TP) flying to Brazil from other international destinations. I hope so !

I guess is not so secret.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:08 pm

What is Varig's existing fleet like.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
EasternSon
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:00 pm

7 Boeing 777-200ER
4 Boeing 767-300ER
4 Boeing 757-200
2 Boeing 737-800
1 Boeing 737-700
1 Boeing 737-500
4 Boeing 737-400
26 Boeing 737-300
11 McDonnell Douglas MD-11


But who knows how many aircraft will be returned to leasors? Seriously, the bankruptcy was a move to keep some of them from being repossessed. Do those get taken back if VARIG isn't bought today?
"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
 
sampa737
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:19 pm

I've been listening for planes flying from Congonhas over my house here in Sao Paulo. They must be taking off to another direction. I want to catch perhaps, my last RG 737 flying close by. Varig to Brasil is like Braniff, Pan Am, or TWA was to the USA if I may make that comparison.

And then what about all those folks who flew Varig to Germany for the Cup?

Man, what a day.
 
masseybrown
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:23 pm

I thought I read last week that Brazil stated that Varig's frequency authorizations would not pass to a purchaser, that they would be redistributed to incumbents. Now I can't find that article. Can anyone confirm?

That would certainly be a disincentive to buy the airline.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting EasternSon (Reply 4):
7 Boeing 777-200ER
4 Boeing 767-300ER
4 Boeing 757-200
2 Boeing 737-800
1 Boeing 737-700
1 Boeing 737-500
4 Boeing 737-400
26 Boeing 737-300
11 McDonnell Douglas MD-11

Some corrections:

4 Boeing 777-200ER (PP-VRA, VRB, VRE and VRF) + 4 Boeing 777-200 (VRC, VRD, VRI and VRJ)
3 Boeing 767-300ER (VOE, VOI and VOJ)
4 Boeing 757-200 (VPP, VPQ, VPR, VPS)
2 Boeing 737-800 (VSA and VSB)
2 Boeing 737-800 (SAF and SAG)
1 Boeing 737-500 (MNM)
26 Boeing 737-300 (don't ask me! i really don't know)
9 MD-11

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
piercey
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Sampa737 (Reply 5):
And then what about all those folks who flew Varig to Germany for the Cup?

screwed.

We might as well start anointing the sick...  Sad  cry 
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
DETA737
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:09 am

It looks like the airline has at least a few more days left, the judge has decided to postpone his decision until Monday.

http://www.estadao.com.br/ultimas/ec...nomia/noticias/2006/jun/09/149.htm
 
EasternSon
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:17 am

Sorry, Felipe. I should've stated it may not have been completely accurate. That's what I get for posting quickly.

Regards,
"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
 
MaartenV
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
VRE

Wasn't VRE repossessed by the owner after being stored at JFK for some months?
Its all about supply and demand...
 
rbirtel
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:43 am

I still believe and I think you should do the same!!

There is much more information that we don't know... I really don't believe tha Varig will close its doors!

[Edited 2006-06-09 20:45:33]
 
AlexPorter
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 8):
screwed.

LH perhaps?
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
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yowza
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:15 am

You know those huge exapnsion plans EK have and that fleet shortage. Well here's your solution buy VARIG! 700 million is the cost of a few toys for the Maktoums  Smile

YOWza
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 1964
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:20 am

What happened to the 777 that was parked at JFK? When I drove in this morning it was gone. Was it re-possessed?
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Thread starter):
a last bid for the airline and it came short of the minimum US$700 million for the domestic operations.



Quoting YOWza (Reply 14):
You know those huge exapnsion plans EK have and that fleet shortage. Well here's your solution buy VARIG! 700 million is the cost of a few toys for the Maktoums

What kind of toys does EK get with domestic RG takeover? A bunch of 737s for DXB-Iraq maybe? :O
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
WestWing
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:11 am

Someone called Multilong Corporation put in a last minute bid.
The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
 
MaartenV
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 14):
You know those huge exapnsion plans EK have and that fleet shortage. Well here's your solution buy VARIG! 700 million is the cost of a few toys for the Maktoums

To bad Brazil has a law limiting foreign ownership in the aviation business to 20% Smile
Its all about supply and demand...
 
avroarrow
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:52 am

Well if these Multilong people get it for 800 Million and get to duck out from under the 3.1 Billion in dept like the article says, I guess it would be possible for them to keep going. Although I'm sure the new owners would restructure in some way. That is IF the bid is accepted of course. I'll keep my fingers crossed for Varig, one of my favorite liveries.
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
LVZXV
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
3 Boeing 767-300ER (VOE, VOI and VOJ)
4 Boeing 757-200 (VPP, VPQ, VPR, VPS)

VOE doesn't exist, must be VTE. As for the 757s, I believe they are VTQ, VTR, VTS and VTT. VPx sounds a bit old for them...

Saludos,

ZXV
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
dc10s4ever
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:58 am

Awe Shucks! I was gonna non rev to Brazil on Tuesday. But if RG shuts down it could make it tough to non rev on AA!  Sad
 
justapassenger
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:58 am

US court orders Varig to return jets to Boeing

http://money.excite.com/ht/nw/bus/20060609/hle_bus-n09221707.html.

This article provides some information, but seems to create more questions than it answers. For example:

• Court ordered seven aircraft returned to Boeing, but Boeing says it has 10 aircraft with Varig.
• It mentions that other aircraft are to be returned to “others” but doesn’t say who the others are or how many planes.
• The aircraft types are not mentioned.
• It does mention that an $800 million bid was made by “a little known investment fund called the Multilong Corporation.”
• Varig was ordered “to stop operating the aircraft on Monday and to return them to the plaintiffs by June 16.”
 
AF022
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:52 pm

Does anyone know which aircraft are owned by Boeing?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:55 pm

Quoting LVZXV (Reply 20):
VOE doesn't exist, must be VTE. As for the 757s, I believe they are VTQ, VTR, VTS and VTT. VPx sounds a bit old for them...

Thanks for the correction. The other 767 is really VTE, and VPx are 737's (like VPY)

Today i travel SAO-GIG with one JJ high staff. It seems Tam has a contingency plan quite ready in case of RG bankruptcy, FRA, LAX and more frequencies to JFK probably will be the first moves.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 23):
Does anyone know which aircraft are owned by Boeing?

PP-VRC and VRD (777-200)
5 MD-11 with GE engines
(to be confirmed!!!!!)

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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yowza
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:26 pm

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 18):

To bad Brazil has a law limiting foreign ownership in the aviation business to 20%

I know for a fact tha a 50,000$ investment will get you a Brazilian passport and you don't even need to speak Portuguese.

YOWza
 
OHLHD
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:09 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 25):
I know for a fact tha a 50,000$ investment will get you a Brazilian passport and you don't even need to speak Portuguese.

YOWza

If one pays that much he is stupid Big grin
 
jog
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:20 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
Today i travel SAO-GIG with one JJ high staff. It seems Tam has a contingency plan quite ready in case of RG bankruptcy, FRA, LAX and more frequencies to JFK probably will be the first moves.

I also recently talked to JJ crew who said that they have heard of serious plans for FRA. So probably these rumours refer to the same plan (I am always a bit sceptic about rumours among crew, especially in Brazil people talk a lot...).
 
B707Stu
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:19 pm

All of this news of RG's impending demise is truly truly sad. Such a great airline with tremendous service when I flew them in 1980 in, at the time, a state of the art D10-30. I'll never forget the amazing dinner and full breakfast in Y served on China, the comfortable seats, warm F/A's and general light and wonderful cabins.

I hope the Brazilian government helps before it's too late. So sad.
 
JAL
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:58 pm

The loss of Varig would be a blow for Brazil and the Star Alliance.
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
cedars747
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:01 pm

Please save Varig  banghead 
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
LipeGIG
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Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Jog (Reply 27):
I also recently talked to JJ crew who said that they have heard of serious plans for FRA. So probably these rumours refer to the same plan (I am always a bit sceptic about rumours among crew, especially in Brazil people talk a lot...).

Me too, we never know the level of knowledge. But i heard this from a JJ Director, and Tam was one of the players looking for buying RG, so they just paid R$ 60,000.00 and get access to the Data Room. Now JJ knows exactly which routes are profitable and has some information on F+C Demand.

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 30):
Please save Varig
Alex!!!

Alex, i have the same request, but i have to say (and i was an optimistic during a long time), the situation is really bad.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:59 am

Its 1200p Central time USA on Sat 10Jun. Anything new as to the status of RG? I really hope they find someone to bail them out, and reorganize the company.
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
Leskova
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting Jog (Reply 27):
I also recently talked to JJ crew who said that they have heard of serious plans for FRA.

I'd love to see JJ back at FRA... having flown on both JJ and RG, I see one of them as a quality airline, and it's not the one that's a member of the Star Alliance.

I'm really not someone who hopes for the "death" of a company, but in the case of Varig? Is it really possible to reorganize and restructure the company in a way that makes it viable again? For quite a while not it seems that RG is on a path similar to AZ... never really dead, but certainly not alive and kicking.

Perhaps the best idea really would be to shut the whole thing down and, in case financial backing is secured, restart the whole thing from scratch.......
Smile - it confuses people!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting EasternSon (Reply 4):
7 Boeing 777-200ER
4 Boeing 767-300ER
4 Boeing 757-200
2 Boeing 737-800
1 Boeing 737-700
1 Boeing 737-500
4 Boeing 737-400
26 Boeing 737-300
11 McDonnell Douglas MD-11

Are they all Leased.Any Owned.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baron95
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 32):
Its 1200p Central time USA on Sat 10Jun. Anything new as to the status of RG? I really hope they find someone to bail them out, and reorganize the company.

I have posted the latest updates on another thread... Update on Varig - Only One Bid on Auction

Next news will como on Monday afternoon.
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:23 am

Thanks Baron95.  thumbsup 
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
cessnalady
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
PP-VRC and VRD (777-200)

Are these ER type? Could these two be going to AM if returned to Boeing? There is constant talk about AM finding two used B772ERs to beef up its fleet, after only two brand-new B772ER's (affectionally named "Diego" and "Frida")have been delivered to them.

Marie
 
Knightsofmalta
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:32 pm

Am I missing someting here? Varig has been kept afloat for years now without ever showing any real improvement. Why on earth should anybody in his right mind possibly want to buy such an airline?

JJ should just pick out the bits with which money could be made and then Varig should be allowed to die gracefully, just like they should do with AZ or OA.
 
nudelhirsch
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:00 pm

How likely is an involvement by LH? They sure are interested in getting their hands on the M11s, they already operate a network in Southern America, stronger than many other carriers from that far away, both are Star...
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
EMB195ER
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:56 pm

Hello everybody!

The biggest issue regarding JJ expanding abroad is aircraft availability. Additionally, I believe they would need a larger aircraft than their A330 in the GRU-FRA route. Don't you think so?

Hugs,
 
jog
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:40 am

RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 39):
How likely is an involvement by LH? They sure are interested in getting their hands on the M11s, they already operate a network in Southern America, stronger than many other carriers from that far away, both are Star...

Some LH consultants tried to help RG last summer which actually resulted, e.g., in axing NRT. However, obviously they were not able to put them on the right way again. Also LH's network in South America is quite reduced nowadays. They run a single flight to GRU continuing to EZE plus a flight to CCS. I guess they will rely on TAP for bringing the Star Alliance passengers to other locations in Brazil.

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 40):

The biggest issue regarding JJ expanding abroad is aircraft availability. Additionally, I believe they would need a larger aircraft than their A330 in the GRU-FRA route. Don't you think so?

I agree that lack of aircraft is an issue for JJ at the moment. However, I believe that the A332 offers a lot flexibility to JJ. In case the demand is high enough they could add a second flight as they did in CDG which would also give flexibility to travellers. I do not see the need of introducing an A346 which would probably be the only currently available alternative for JJ. For the future they ordered the bigger version of the A350 which will then give room for expansion.
 
EurostarVA
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:51 pm

Is it just me or Brazil is now seriously lacking the previous number of long haul flag carriers? There used to be a time when TransBrasil, VASP, VARIG, were all operating long haul flights to ALL continents. Now sadly with the nearly-certain demise of VARIG, they are down to 1 carrier which severely lacks the kind of long haul coverage offered by the mentioned defunct carriers!!

This is certainly not good news for Brazil's balance sheet and FOREX flow.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
PDPsol
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:43 am

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 42):
This is certainly not good news for Brazil's balance sheet and FOREX flow

What are you talking about? Brazil's "balance sheet"?

What do the number of Brazilian carriers and the nation's sovereign debt balance [which is presumably what you are referring to here] have to do with each other?

The issue discussed here is a rather simple one: RG has been woefully managed by a dreadful shareholder, the FRB. The carrier has been incapable of generating profits and operating cash flows and saw its financial obligations spiral out of control.

RG is a private company and its creditors drove it to seek voluntary bankruptcy protection in 2005. RG was incapable of providing its creditors and the bankruptcy court with a viable restructuring plan, so its assets have been auctioned. Unsurprisingly, there haven't been any takers, other than the group formed by RG's employees.

Both JJ and G3 are viable carriers; they operate at profitably and are managed to maximize value for their shareholders.

Who cares whether JJ's overseas routes compare with RG's old network?

Why is this topic even remotely related to Brasil's "balance sheet" [whatever that is] or its sovereign debt balance? BTW, changes to Brasil's federal debt balance is a function of its fiscal policy [tax receipts, less expenditures] and existing interest rates.
 
EurostarVA
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:56 am

Simple...by Brazil's "Balance sheet" and forex flow situation, I meant to refer to the certain occurrance of capital flight in the immediate future. This basically means foreign carriers stand to repatriate large amounts of revenue and profit from markets traditionally attended to by Brazilian companies.

I was talking about the big picture! As such, it looks gloomy for the Brazilian economy, at least for the immediate future.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
A342
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RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:00 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 13):
LH perhaps?

Forget it. They have no additional longhaul aircraft available.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
vv701
Posts: 5774
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: VARIG's Final Hour (perhaps) Today, Friday

Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 43):
Why is this topic even remotely related to Brasil's "balance sheet" [whatever that is] or its sovereign debt balance?

Although not regarded as nearly important today as it used to be, a country's Balance of Payments - net foreign currency inflow less net foreign currency outflow - is still extremely important. So, for example. the weakness of the US $ today reflects the market's efforts to correct the chronic imbalance of the American Balance of Payments. This balance would become significantly worse if a major foreign currency earner such as AA were to go into Chapter 7 Bankruptcy as inevitably much of their international business would be picked up by competing foreign airlines.