hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

Who's Mistake Was It?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 11:32 am

I was doing a bit of spotting at YYZ, and I saw something that I thought worth mentioning. There was a 767 lined up on the runway waiting to go. It had just moved into position. Then to my surprise, there comes an A320 lined up to land on that same runway! When it was no more than about 300 ft off the ground, about 1000 yards from the begining of the runway, and about 10 seconds from landing right on top of the 767, it applies power and does a go-around. And calling that a go-around is being kind. To me that was more of an evasive reaction to seeing that 767 sitting there than it was a routine go-around.

Was this a tower mistake? I can't see the A320 or the 767 as being at fault. What do you think?

Hmmmm...
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Who's Mistake Was It?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 11:36 am

That should be "whose" mistake. I was dictating to my cat. She can type pretty fast, but her grammar is not perfect.

Hmmmm...
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
Critter_592
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2000 3:07 pm

RE: Who's Mistake Was It?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 11:43 am

What Airline was the A320? I think there has been problems with some of the Foreign airlines getting mixed up with their left and right...i think it was JFK when an Korean 747 was cleared to land on 31R, but instead was coming down to 31L..it was about 300 ft from landing on top of another Aircraft departing 31L when he initiated a go-around.
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Whose Mistake Was It?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 11:50 am

I can't be sure of the identity. I couldn't see anything but the underside of the fuselage as it went over as I was in my car. But I doubt that it was a foreign language problem as the next two planes to land were A320s from Air Canada I believe, and there wouldn't be any A320s in Toronto that were from non-English speaking countries. Looks like a controller mistake. The funny thing about is that the A320 didn't see the conflict until that late.

Hmmmm...
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
Purdue Arrow
Posts: 947
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 1:49 pm

RE: Who's Mistake Was It?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 1:54 pm

It is pretty much impossible to say who was at fault without knowing what was said. It is possible that the 767 taxied onto the runway without a clearance, or that they held on the runway too long before beginning their takeoff roll, thus reducing the spacing between the two planes. It is also possible that the A-320 lined up on the wrong runway, especially if they were not flying an ILS. Finally, it is possible that teh tower controller made a mistake and cleared two aircraft to be on the same runway at the same time - it has happened before. Ultimately, we can't know who was at fault without knowing what went on over the ATC frequency.
 
Starship
Posts: 1038
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 1999 3:26 am

RE: Whose Mistake Was It?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 7:07 pm

Don't A320's have their computers set in 'auto-land' mode, regardless of weather conditions? That aside, I have a series of pix in a magazine - otherwise I would post them here - showing an aircraft approaching a runway, while another is parked on the threshold. Depending on the way the light catches the other aircraft, you literally do not see it until the last minute. Perhaps that is what happened here?

No doubt this will eventually appear in the FAA or NTSB events register, although maybe that only applies to the US and not Canada.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/usrecord.htm
Behind every "no" is a "yes"
 
Guest

RE: Who's Mistake Was It?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 11:20 pm

We had a similar incident at YYZ just a few weeks ago. An Air Canada DC9 coming from New Orleans was cleared to land on Runway 05 while a private plane was still on the runway. I was listening to my scanner at the time, and the private plane was given takeoff clearance before the Air Canada DC9 was cleared to land. The private plane was still on the runway when the Air Canada pilot asked the controller if the private plane is off the runway. The controller then told the private plane to get off the runway immediately. The Air Canada was already very close to the ground (also about 300 ft off the ground), when the pilots decided to do a go-around. I would have to think it was pilot error on the part of the private plane's pilots. I am not sure why they would wait for such a long time after they were given takeoff clearance - sometimes planes are given extra spacing when a heavy plane departs ahead, but that was not a factor in this case.
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Whose Mistake Was It?

Sun Jun 18, 2000 11:32 pm

I think I saw that one... It was an Air Canada 320 and I looked much higher then just 300FT, It happens, it was a screw up in teh TWR and probably the Approach controller...Although if the 320 was not maintaining assigned speed then he would be partially at fault
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Who's Mistake Was It?

Mon Jun 19, 2000 12:29 am

What day and what time of day did you see your incident, Slawko?

Hmmmm...
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
slawko
Posts: 3742
Joined: Tue May 25, 1999 7:40 am

RE: Who's Mistake Was It?

Mon Jun 19, 2000 7:41 am

It was Friday june 16th in the afternoon, at around 15:00 or soo I'm not sure exactly...between 1400 and 16:30 some time..
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
 
hmmmm...
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:32 am

RE: Who's Mistake Was It?

Mon Jun 19, 2000 11:44 am

Thanks Slawko. My incident occured on Saturday the 17th around 8:30 pm. I kid you not. It was no more than 300 hundred feet AGL before the A320 began its evasive maneuver. The passengers must have been freaked. I know I would have been. Think about it. You have been slowly descending for about 20 minutes from your cruising height. You have flown over the city. You have slowed downed. The flaps are full out. You can almost see the airport. You can see the industrial areas surrounding the airport with their streets, the people, the cars, just a few hundred feet below your window. Just another few seconds and you will be on the ground. Then all of a sudden, the engines rev to full power, the nose pitches quickly up, and the right wing dips into a turn.
If you had a window seat on the port side, you would have seen the lined-up 767 pass underneath your window.

Hmmmm...
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised

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