destinations
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Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:50 pm

They have kept this quiet but Monarch A330 aircraft are to have 33" seat pitch and a award winning service to rival offerings from First Choice and Thomsonfly from November.

Yet another good step for the UK Charter market.
 
MYT332
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting Destinations (Thread starter):
and a award winning service to rival offerings from First Choice

So PTV's in Monarch's Economy finally?
One Life, Live it.
 
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Vasu
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:58 pm

Sounds promising... the ball could have started rolling for the revamp of all UK charter offerings!
 
destinations
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:00 pm

actually it doesnt mention PTVs but if they want to rival FCA and TOMS new products then they need them
 
richardw
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:01 pm

But is the seating 2-4-2 or 3-3-3?
 
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Vasu
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:05 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 4):
But is the seating 2-4-2 or 3-3-3?

3-3-3
 
2000first
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:19 pm

At last they see sense! now all we need is MyTravel to follow suit! Longest ive ever been in a 9 abreast, 29 inch pitch airbus is 8 hrs, and it was absolutely horrible! I dont know how they honestly expect people to enure that for 12/13 hrs on some flights! Im glad of this announcement even if they do have to raise fares slightly!  Smile
 
destinations
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting 2000first (Reply 6):
At last they see sense! now all we need is MyTravel to follow suit! Longest ive ever been in a 9 abreast, 29 inch pitch airbus is 8 hrs, and it was absolutely horrible! I dont know how they honestly expect people to enure that for 12/13 hrs on some flights! Im glad of this announcement even if they do have to raise fares slightly!

MyTravel announced 31" some time ago.
 
planesarecool
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting Destinations (Reply 7):
Quoting 2000first (Reply 6):
At last they see sense! now all we need is MyTravel to follow suit! Longest ive ever been in a 9 abreast, 29 inch pitch airbus is 8 hrs, and it was absolutely horrible! I dont know how they honestly expect people to enure that for 12/13 hrs on some flights! Im glad of this announcement even if they do have to raise fares slightly!

MyTravel announced 31" some time ago.

And were, i believe, the first UK charter to introduce PTV's - The PTV's on the A330 include forward cameras which are great for departure and arrival.

Will these new Monarch interiors cover the B767-300 as well? I'm thinking of flying them to Puerto Plata next summer, but these flights use the B763 G-DIMB.
 
jmc757
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:32 am

This is undoubtedly good news, as Monarch's long haul service has been behind the competitors for a while now - nice to see they'll be offering a much better product!

This is interesting, as Monarch are still more or less independent - they operate for a few different tour operators. For example, First Choice only operate for First Choice, so the tour operator can sell the product and deliver it on their own aircraft. Monarch fly for a number of tour operators, wonder if this descision is driven by the tour ops or the airline have just decided to offer more? Would imagine its the tour operators, but then we may have a strange situation of booking a Thomas Cook or MyTravel holiday and getting better service on a Monarch flight than one of the tour ops own aircraft!
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Destinations (Thread starter):
They have kept this quiet but Monarch A330 aircraft are to have 33" seat pitch and a award winning service to rival offerings from First Choice and Thomsonfly from November.

I'll believe it when I see it, or when it's officially announced!

For the record Thomsonfly have announced no plans for increasing their long-haul seat pitch when the 767-300s get new seats and IFE.

Quoting Destinations (Reply 7):
MyTravel announced 31" some time ago.

MyTravel have never announced any plans to increase long-haul legroom. The "source" for this "info" is a compeletly disrcredited airliners.net member.

Without something to offset the increase in cost-per-seat, significantly reducing the number of seats on charter aircraft is not financially viable.

Furthermore I see no justification for Monarch to increase their seat-pitch, none of their competitors have apart from First Choice. Monarch don't do any long-haul business for First Choice and First Choice Airways' long-haul product is exclusive to the First Choice group - no seats are sold to other companies, so Monarch are not competing for business.

The vast majority of Monarch's long-haul business is for tour operators who have their own airlnes, so it would be impossible for them to market Monarch's pitch without making their in-house airlines look inferior. A tour operator like Kuoni may be prepared to pay a higher seat-rate for a greater pitch, but the same aircraft will also fly on behalf of several different companies in the same week who couldn't justify the higher costs for their chavcitydirect-style flights to Florida or the Dominican Republic.

Plus Monarch often operate the A330 alonside the A300 on the same routes, which would make offering 2 completely different standards of seating problematic.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
destinations
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 8):
Will these new Monarch interiors cover the B767-300 as well? I'm thinking of flying them to Puerto Plata next summer, but these flights use the B763 G-DIMB.

Now thats interesting because you would imagine it would be easier for them, on the other hand as metioned above they dont just fly for one company so i doubt there will be a difference as the tour operators are not going to know when booking someone holiday if its a 767, therefore if they didnt refurb the 767 then a customer could be told "It might be 33" aircraft permitting" which is still not going to be as popular.

[Edited 2006-06-10 17:56:20]
 
destinations
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 10):
I'll believe it when I see it, or when it's officially announced!



Monarch to reconfigure long-haul aircraft this autumn

Monarch is changing the lay-out of its two long-haul A330 aircraft in November, increasing seat pitch in economy by two inches.

Two rows of seats are being taken out to reduce the overall number of seats from 325 to 307, which will allow the airline to offer an economy seat pitch of between 31 and 33 inches.

The reconfiguration follows the success of similar changes on its Airbus shorthaul fleet at the end of 2005.

Alan Murray, director and managing director of sister company, First Aviation, said: "Positive feedback has been instrumental to the airline's decision to extend the cabin reconfiguration to the long haul fleet of A330 aircraft, which traditionally operate on routes to the Maldives, Goa, Orlando, Calgary and Barbados amongst others.

"Our Premium Cabin offering will still be available on these flights providing passengers with additional service benefits, including an even greater seat pitch and wider seats, complimentary bar service and an alternative catering selection."

By Bev Fearis

http://www.travelmole.com/stories/10...hp?news_cat=&pagename=searchresult


Should have put it in my first post.

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 10):
MyTravel have never announced any plans to increase long-haul legroom. The "source" for this "info" is a compeletly disrcredited airliners.net member.

In the Airtours brochure

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 10):
Furthermore I see no justification for Monarch to increase their seat-pitch,

I totally agree though. Who are they doing it for?

[Edited 2006-06-10 17:55:53]
 
jmc757
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:56 am

Just seen an article from Travelmole on This Website. But it doesn't sound like we'll be seeing an "award winning service to rival offerings from First Choice".

Basically they are reconfiguring the A330s from 325 to 307 seats to offer an extra 2" of pitch. It says pitch will be between 31 and 33" seat pitch - so I imagine the majority will be 31". They also mention that Premium will still be available with the usual benefits. No mention of PTVs or upgraded service.

Still good news though, another charter airline will match BA and Virgin's seat pitch.

Edit: Beat me to it!

[Edited 2006-06-10 17:57:41]

[Edited 2006-06-10 17:59:31]
 
planesarecool
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:08 am

Hmmm looks like it will just be the A330's then. Seems strange that the B767 is being left untouched when they operate dominantly long haul routes.

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 10):
Plus Monarch often operate the A330 alonside the A300 on the same routes, which would make offering 2 completely different standards of seating problematic.

In terms of long haul, the only routes they are scheduled to operate 'hand in hand' are the Goa and Maldives flights. In which case, the A300 flights would probably be cheaper than the other flights, not only because of the lower service, but because of the Bahrain stop. But yeah, it could cause problems, just like with the B767-300.

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 10):
Furthermore I see no justification for Monarch to increase their seat-pitch, none of their competitors have apart from First Choice.

Especially in that the A330's do a good deal of their flights from Newcastle and Glasgow, where long haul competition is minimal (Glasgow) or non-existant (Newcastle). For what its worth, they could probably decrease seat pitch and get away with it, as the people in the Newcastle area would just be happy to have a flight to the Caribbean/Florida from their own city, without the need to trek down to Manchester.
 
jmc757
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Jmc757 (Reply 13):
totally agree though. Who are they doing it for?

Well if its just increased seat pitch (as it seems from the article) then its far more feasable. If MyTravel are increasing theirs to 31" then I guess they'd be happy to pay a slightly higher rate to Monarch for the same thing, They can then advertise their own and Monarch's flights as 31" in the brochures.

Also, taking Crosswind's example of Kuoni, I'm sure they (and similar companies) would also be happy for this change. Kuoni's have always aimed at the higher end of the market, I'm sure they will be happy to advertise same seat pitch as Virgin and BA.

The only oddity here is Thomas Cook. Perhaps they just won't mention it in the brochures? Or may have plans to increase seat pitch on their own A330s?
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Destinations (Reply 12):
Two rows of seats are being taken out to reduce the overall number of seats from 325 to 307, which will allow the airline to offer an economy seat pitch of between 31 and 33 inches.

The airticle's a bit misleading, Monarch's A330s currently seat 374 (W49Y325) so the new total seat count will be 356 (W49Y307) The variation in pitch will be due to the fact that they are removing only 2 rows, but the middle cabin is much larger than the rear cabin - which will presumably have the better legroom. If you assume an average 30" pitch in the old config, the new one will be 31.6" so the 31-33 range sounds right (you can only vary pitch in 1" increments due aircraft floor anchor points)

Does seem very odd to have a 4 tier long-haul product;
A300 - 9 abreast/29" pitch (2 aircraft in winter)
B767 - 8 abreast/30" pitch (1 aircraft)
A330 - 9 abreast/31-33" pitch (2 aircraft)
A300/A330 premium cabin - 8 abreast/34-35" pitch

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 10):
MyTravel have never announced any plans to increase long-haul legroom.



Quoting Destinations (Reply 12):
In the Airtours brochure

I've never seen any reference to it, all their brochures are online here
Maybe you could point me to where this is mentioned?

Thanks.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
destinations
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 16):
I've never seen any reference to it, all their brochures are online here
Maybe you could point me to where this is mentioned?

It is in the back of the printed copies o the April edition. I remember reading about it. Whether they have now scrapped the idea we will see in the future.
 
by738
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:16 am

[quote=Crosswind,reply=10]MyTravel have never announced any plans to increase long-haul legroom. quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyTravel_Airways
 
ThomasCook
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:35 am

Hi,

See Page 31 of the following Investor Day Presentation from MyTravel Group:

MyTravel Investor Day Presentation Part 2

Regards
ThomasCook
A380 Crew
 
destinations
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting By738 (Reply 18):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MyTravel_Airways

You do understand *ANYONE* can post there.
 
destinations
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting ThomasCook (Reply 19):
Hi,

See Page 31 of the following Investor Day Presentation from MyTravel Group:

MyTravel Investor Day Presentation Part 2

It does seem pretty conclusive evidence to me.
 
by738
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Destinations (Reply 20):

Yes I am well aware of that- but they must have got the info from somewhere- perhaps MyTravel Investor Day package  Wink
 
destinations
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:45 am

Quoting BY738 (Reply 22):
Yes I am well aware of that- but they must have got the info from somewhere- perhaps MyTravel Investor Day package

Very possibly.

I see "The Sun" managed to find space to fit the announcment into there travel page.
 
BCAL
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:59 pm

Quoting Jmc757 (Reply 9):
Monarch are still more or less independent

Monarch Airlines, Monarch Engineering, Cosmos and Avro are all owned by the Globus Gateway Corporation. This is a family owned business, based in Lugano Switzerland, which is owned and run by the Mantegazza Family.

Monarch is now clearly the longest established British Charter Carrier, having been formed by former British Eagle directors in 1965 and still operates under the same name and ownership. The British Eagle directors originally established an aircraft engineering facility (now Monarch Engineering, which has an excellent reputation and carries out maintenance for other airlines as well as aircraft in their own fleet) but soon found a demand for inclusive-tour flights and this is when the Mantegazza Family stepped in and provided the finance for the purchase of the Britannias.

Monarch does most of the flights for its sister companies, Cosmos and Avro. They have spare capacity which they sell out to the smaller independent tour operators. They also "pool" their resources, so someone travelling with (say) My Travel ex Newcastle might well find themselves on a Monarch flight.

As the demand for charter flights decreases, Monarch has expanded into the LCC Scheduled market and has achieved very good results and loads.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
jmc757
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 24):
Monarch does most of the flights for its sister companies, Cosmos and Avro. They have spare capacity which they sell out to the smaller independent tour operators. They also "pool" their resources, so someone travelling with (say) My Travel ex Newcastle might well find themselves on a Monarch flight.

My bad didn't make my point clearly enough. I appreciate Monarch's ownership is the same as Avro and Cosmos etc, what I meant by 'independent' was they are not verticaly intregrated like the other main charter carriers. They still have substantial programmes for many different tour operators.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 24):
As the demand for charter flights decreases, Monarch has expanded into the LCC Scheduled market and has achieved very good results and loads.

They've done very well in this sector. I guess having run Monarch Crown Service from the mid-80s they were a step ahead of the game, but when the "Low Cost revolution" struck Monarch were very quick to adapt to the market changes and expand the Scheduled arm. Perhaps the fact they were not vertically integrated also helped this, giving them flexibility. They always seem to have a good understanding of the market and what passengers want, their extra leg room offering on short haul has apparently seen great success.
 
sbworcs
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 10):
Furthermore I see no justification for Monarch to increase their seat-pitch, none of their competitors have apart from First Choice. Monarch don't do any long-haul business for First Choice and First Choice Airways' long-haul product is exclusive to the First Choice group - no seats are sold to other companies, so Monarch are not competing for business.

I think that Monarch are definitely competing for business. Whilst not directly competing for travel companies to use their service they HAVE to be able to match competitors on things like service and seat pitch etc or else the actual travelling customer will choose to travel with First Choice. Also don't many charter airlines also sell seat only? Surely that is a good enough reason to encourage more people to book flight only deals with them?
The best way forwards is upwards!
 
Cosmic
Posts: 331
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RE: Monarch Increase Long Haul Room

Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:02 am

sounds alright. a step in right direction for monarch.

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