LY777
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Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:32 am

I would like to know if Qantas is happy with their A330s.Will Qantas withdraw them when the 787s arrive?
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nzrich
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:41 am

Well they will be going to Jetstar international for use prior to them getting their 787's ... When they get the 787's who knows what will happen to the A330
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FlySSC
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:50 am

I don't know any airline that is not happy with their A330, whether they are -300 or -200.
 
MEA-707
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
I don't know any airline that is not happy with their A330, whether they are -300 or -200.

One of the few critisizms I heared on the A-330 indeed came from Qantas who was disappointed in the turn around times of them on short flights. Not sure though if that's to blame on the aircraft, or just having one jetway etc. Also not sure if the 787 will be better suited for the short high density flights like between SYD, MEL and BNE. I think it's been discussed a lot here, but don't remember.

For the rest indeed all Airlines seem to like them, after 12 years of service almost all original buyers have no plans to replace them yet. Few exceptions are like Air Inter for whom the aircraft was too big with the new TGV trains, and Swiss ditching some overcapacity after 2001.
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zeke
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 3):
One of the few critisizms I heared on the A-330 indeed came from Qantas who was disappointed in the turn around times of them on short flights. Not sure though if that's to blame on the aircraft, or just having one jetway etc. Also not sure if the 787 will be better suited for the short high density flights like between SYD, MEL and BNE. I think it's been discussed a lot here, but don't remember.

It was their first FBW Airbus, everyone had to learn Frenglish. Now that its in service for a while now I think it all has settled down.

Many operators turn 330s around way quicker than QF, so I dont think its actually a problem with the aircraft, just the process they used was not optimised for the type.
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aussie747
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:09 am

The A332's that are with QF on domestic routes will go to JQ international when they start they start ops. 2 new A332's will be delivered around MAY 2007 for them as well.

I think QF are happy with the A333 in operations, although I wish they could get extra range out of them so they could ops SYD - BOM non stop instead of the tech stop in DRW (they operate non stop on the return).

These A333's will stay with QF for quite a while until they build up their 787 fleet (they will be replacing older 767's before the A333's) so they can start replacing them. QF is due not to get their first 787 until JUL 2009 (JQ gets theirs in AUG 2008)

So apart from international connecting flights on the A330 their should be no domestic A330 operations soon on QF.
 
Maddog
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:14 am

The QF ones are very uncomfortable to travel on. The IFE system rarely works, and they have cabin temperature control problems. I was recently on a 10hour flight and they couldnt get the temp below 27 degrees in the cabin.


Most of the other QF 330 issues have been discussed elsewhere. Mainly along the lines of interior configuration problems, costs with increasing floor strength etc.

Basically QF were so un happy they made a point to make their next order (which was for 787s a little while ago) an ALL boeing order. (They had been rumoured to have been looking at a mixed fleet order).

Rumours floating round still are that QF are fairly unhappy with the A380 order re delays.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Maddog (Reply 6):
Most of the other QF 330 issues have been discussed elsewhere. Mainly along the lines of interior configuration problems, costs with increasing floor strength etc.

those issues were related to the A330-200 only, i've not heard bad reports about the 330-300.
 
Maddog
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:17 am

correct, floor strength issues affected the 200s and the early 300s. QF paid some vast amout of money to have the 300s strengthed but wouldnt outlay the cost on the 200s. Hence the long range 200s on domestic runs.

This translates into problems on the long haul sectors for the 300s - most notably out of mumbai, where it is payload limited.

I suspect this is why the 200s will be off to Jetstar first.
 
JAL
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:39 am

Aren't the 787 going to replace the A330 and the 767?
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pilotdude09
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:09 am

Quoting JAL (Reply 9):
Aren't the 787 going to replace the A330 and the 767?

They are replacing the oldest 767's and the A332's, i doubt the A333's will be retired yet? They might put them on domestic routes?
Also the 747-300's look set to be retired in 2012!
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koruman
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:24 am

No, Qantas aren't happy at all with their A330s, finding them barely superior to their outdated 767s.

The aircraft lacked the floor strength to install their business class beds. The A330-300s were subsequently reinforced, and do have Skybeds, but are unable to fly a long enough range to be worthwhile.

The A330-200s are so compromised in range and power that they haven't even been retrofitted with the Business Class product, and are having to be used on domestic short-haul routes.

When the order was made it seemed like a good idea, particularly as the A340-500 looked like a possible future acquisition, and a future 777-300ER-like stretch of the A330 looked like it might replace the 747-300 and 400 fleet and the 787 had yet to be designed.

Qantas will dump all its A330s onto Jetstar International (which won't have flat beds or even Business Class) and I suspect that they will be disposed of as soon as enough 787s arrive.
 
trex8
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:53 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The aircraft lacked the floor strength to install their business class beds. The A330-300s were subsequently reinforced, and do have Skybeds, but are unable to fly a long enough range to be worthwhile.
QF asked specifically for a unique version with lower floor strength to save weight and money as they didn't think they would need it for domestic routes. They then found they needed the "regular" floor every other Airbus A330 customer gets! Thats QFs own stupidity for asking for something special and then regretting it later, for whatever reason they needed the higher floor strength for different markets, routing than initially planned. QF have some of the longest regularly scheduled routes on an A333- SYD-PVG and there is one flight to India they fly non stop eastbound!

[Edited 2006-06-12 04:54:40]
 
aussie747
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
Qantas will dump all its A330s onto Jetstar International (which won't have flat beds or even Business Class) and I suspect that they will be disposed of as soon as enough 787s arrive.

Only the A332's will go, the A333's will stay for quite a while yet, and yes the A333's do have the Skybed in business class on those planes.
 
dalecary
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 13):
Only the A332's will go, the A333's will stay for quite a while yet, and yes the A333's do have the Skybed in business class on those planes.

Albeit a narrower skybed than on the 747 fleet, due to cabin width restrictions. QF had teething problems transitioning from all Boeing to having a part Airbus fleet. That is understandable. It was also an Airbus requirement that A380 operators had another Airbus WB type for the carrier to get the requisite Airbus flying training. QF wanted the 380, so they had the choice b/w 330 or 340 as the 2nd type. As they never wanted the 340, the 330s were very attractively packaged in with the 380s.
As to whether they are happy with their A330 fleet now. I don't really know. I suspect they find them adequate, but the 333s are very payload restricted on medium haul sectors such as MEL/SYD-HKG/NRT/PVG.
 
pilot21
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:10 pm

This has been discussed a few times on this site, and the same arguments keep coming up:
1) No they aren't that happy (or they weren't anyway)
2) They specified a lower floor strength on the 200's because I believe they wanted to save on landing fees, and then found they couldn't install the sky beds.
3) They seem to have gotten the fleet mixture mixed up, if they went for 300's on the Cityflyer routes and put regular 200's on the India routes, they'd have no problems with range issues. Instead they put the longer range aircraft on short haul routes and put the medium range aircraft on long-haul routes, and then moan about the results!

I've no idea what was actually said/promised by Airbus, but from comments made here in previous posts, it is suggested Airbus did question the 200 efficiency on the some of the sectors Qantas wanted to use it on.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The A330-200s are so compromised in range and power that they haven't even been retrofitted with the Business Class product, and are having to be used on domestic short-haul routes.

I'd check your facts on that one! It was a Qantas A330-200 that set a World Record on a delivery flight from Toulouse to Sydney (or Melbourne can't remember which city) doing the route non-stop with no special operating procedures etc.
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flydreamliner
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:48 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
I don't know any airline that is not happy with their A330, whether they are -300 or -200.

Qantas isn't that thrilled - hence the thread. Most all of the other opperators are happy with A330, which isn't surprising, it is a very nice aircaft in a number of different respects. The fact it was able to one-up the spectacular 767 is testament to how impressive A330 is, and what large shoes it leaves 787 and A350 to fill. That said, for some things, like the shorter high density routes - things A330 was never so much intended for - which is what Qantas uses them for, it is not the best choice, and other, older aircraft like 767 and even A330 can seem better choices than A330.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The A330-200s are so compromised in range and power that they haven't even been retrofitted with the Business Class product, and are having to be used on domestic short-haul routes.

Hmm, you know NW is using the A332 on transpacific flights, PDX-NRT for instance is serviced by an A332. I don't think they have any range issues. A333 however, cannot fully loaded service those routes.
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EK413
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:24 pm

Hmmmm....Is Qantas Happy with their A330s?

Good question.....

Considering the A330's Qantas operate on the domestic and international network have been pretty given to them at an extremely low rate by AIRBUS so that they can familize with the Airbus cockpit layout so that when the A380 joins the fleet in late 2006 early 2007 Qantas wont experience as many teething problems as they have with the A330 when they first received them.....

In my opinion Qantas is happy with the A330 otherwise they would off loaded the aircraft by now in favour of Boeing product (eg. B767-400ER)....

EK413
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rdwelch
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):
Frenglish

Perfect.
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scbriml
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting Maddog (Reply 8):
correct, floor strength issues affected the 200s and the early 300s. QF paid some vast amout of money to have the 300s strengthed but wouldnt outlay the cost on the 200s.



Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The aircraft lacked the floor strength to install their business class beds.

As Trex8 pointed out, this is entirely down to QF's original choice of a lightweight floor.

It does seem that QF is unique in having so many problems with the A330, but reading between the lines it would seem that many of these "problems" are of their own making.

Nobody seems to be able to explain why QF has such a problem turning the A330 round in a resonable time when no other airlines in the Middle-East or Asia-Pacific have this issue.
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anstar
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:49 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The A330-300s were subsequently reinforced, and do have Skybeds, but are unable to fly a long enough range to be worthwhile.

The QF A330's as mentioned above fly some of the longest A333 flights int he world. SYD-PVG, PEK etc. Their missions are Australia-Asia flights.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The A330-200s are so compromised in range and power that they haven't even been retrofitted with the Business Class product, and are having to be used on domestic short-haul routes.

Compromised in range? Someone better tell Jestar who are planning on flying them SYD-HNL later this year!

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
Qantas will dump all its A330s onto Jetstar International (which won't have flat beds or even Business Class) and I suspect that they will be disposed of as soon as enough 787s arrive.

Not quite - Jetstar are getting the first batch of 787's followed by QF domestic wqho have something like 30 767's to replace before the 787's replace the A333's. I'd expect to seem them in QF colours for at least the next 10 years.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 17):
Hmmmm....Is Qantas Happy with their A330s?

Probably not - hence why they converted a few of their options a year or 2 back. As has been discussed to death on this board - QF seem happy with the A333's and the A332's have been misused, but are being offloaded ot Jetstar to be used "properly"
 
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EK413
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:06 pm

Scbriml

Nobody seems to be able to explain why QF has such a problem turning the A330 round in a resonable time when no other airlines in the Middle-East or Asia-Pacific have this issue.


Qantas originally ordered 7 A330-200s to operate the longer international routes & 6 A330-300s to operate the domestic network and a undisclosed number of options.....
When Qantas received the first series of A330-200s aircraft Qantas deployed the aircraft onto the domestic network for cabin crew training.....I believe it is here when the SH#T hit the fan and Qantas experienced teething problems....Qantas noticed a quick turn around time of 10-20 minutes (Qantas Domestic Boeing 767's are turned around in 10-15 minutes) wasnt possible with the -200 series then how could it be made possible to have a quick turn around with -300 series.....
Qantas changed the original order of 7 A330-200s to only 4 aircraft -EBA,BB,BC & BD which operate today on the long turn around CityFlyer flights operating SYD,MEL,BNE,PER,CNS routes.....
I hope this info. helps answer your questions! Big grin

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musapapaya
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 14):
As to whether they are happy with their A330 fleet now. I don't really know. I suspect they find them adequate, but the 333s are very payload restricted on medium haul sectors such as MEL/SYD-HKG/NRT/PVG.

I would like to ask, CX is using these planes for SYD-HKG but why are they not payload restricted? I am a bit confused is this only the problem related to QF?
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EK413
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:08 pm

Musapapaya

I would like to ask, CX is using these planes for SYD-HKG but why are they not payload restricted? I am a bit confused is this only the problem related to QF?


Probably an issue with the powerplants....

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MOW
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:20 pm

I heard some rumours that KLM is also not very happy with 332s. Can anyone tell more?
 
ha763
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:47 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 21):
Qantas originally ordered 7 A330-200s to operate the longer international routes & 6 A330-300s to operate the domestic network

It was my understanding that the -200s were ordered for use mostly on the domestic routes and the -300s would be for regional international routes. Hence the 2-class configuration, lighter floor structure and IIRC, derated engines for the -200. At least that's what the Qantas press release said the -200s would be used for.

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2002/dec02/2832
 
CRJ900
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:15 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 12):
QF asked specifically for a unique version with lower floor strength to save weight and money as they didn't think they would need it for domestic routes. They then found they needed the "regular" floor every other Airbus A330 customer gets! Thats QFs own stupidity for asking for something special and then regretting it later,



Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 15):
They seem to have gotten the fleet mixture mixed up, if they went for 300's on the Cityflyer routes and put regular 200's on the India routes, they'd have no problems with range issues. Instead they put the longer range aircraft on short haul routes and put the medium range aircraft on long-haul routes, and then moan about the results!

I've no idea what was actually said/promised by Airbus, but from comments made here in previous posts, it is suggested Airbus did question the 200 efficiency on the some of the sectors Qantas wanted to use it on.

So, to conclude, it is QF's own bleedin' fault for not using the aircraft for what they were intended for. The A332 is the long-hauler of the two, the A333 is the shortish-medium-hauler. Remember that French Air Inter used the A333 for domestic flights with 400+ seats and leisure carrier MyTravel Airways pack in 410 pax and do one-hour turnarounds at vacation airports.

If you board and deplane 300+ pax through one cabin door it will take time, if QF use two or three doors then they can have quick turn-arounds... but that will mean pax going out on the tarmac, Virgin Blue-style...
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scouseflyer
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:26 pm

"Basically QF were so un happy they made a point to make their next order (which was for 787s a little while ago) an ALL boeing order. (They had been rumoured to have been looking at a mixed fleet order)."

Erm no - they ordered a couple of top-up A330s - not many but defintely not an all Boeing order
 
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EK413
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:27 pm

Ha763

The information I have gathered together was from an article which I had stalled away from from around 2002 when Qantas placed the order....It basically says that Qantas originally had plans to operate the -200s on regional,tasman and Asian routes....The -300s had been planned to replace the B767-238's which Qantas retired in I believe 2004...
I personally think that an A330-300 isnt a suitable replacement for the B762...
In my opinion Qantas should of purchased the -400ER which visited Qantas Jetbase in Sydney prior to the order being given to Airbus....


EK413
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scbriml
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:37 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 21):
I believe it is here when the SH#T hit the fan and Qantas experienced teething problems....Qantas noticed a quick turn around time of 10-20 minutes (Qantas Domestic Boeing 767's are turned around in 10-15 minutes) wasnt possible with the -200 series then how could it be made possible to have a quick turn around with -300 series.....

Thanks for the information, but my understanding was the opposite: that the 200s were intended for domestic (hence lightweight floor) and the -300s for internationals.

The question remains unanswered - why is QF unable to turn an A332 round in a similar time to the 767?
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ClassicLover
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:38 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 14):
It was also an Airbus requirement that A380 operators had another Airbus WB type for the carrier to get the requisite Airbus flying training.

I never knew that before. What a complete wank! Flight simulators were invented for a reason, you know...
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trex8
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 30):
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 14):It was also an Airbus requirement that A380 operators had another Airbus WB type for the carrier to get the requisite Airbus flying training.
I never knew that before. What a complete wank! Flight simulators were invented for a reason, you know...

I find such a stipulation by a manufacturer hard to believe. No doubt its very useful for both airline and OEM. But it would only be really useful and make sense for FBW types. So how does this "rule" apply to Fedex and UPS who don't fly any FBW Airbuses? ???? Or are freighters somehow inherently different??? Or did Airbus change its "rules" recently?
 
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:10 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 30):

I never knew that before. What a complete wank! Flight simulators were invented for a reason, you know...

I have actually read that Airbus wanted Qantas to have a plane before the A380 so it might not be to far from the mark.

The great deal that Airbus gave Qantas for the A330s would have also helped.

The A330-200 can't be all that bad as Qantas purchased 2 extra planes to start Jetstar International.
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anstar
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:18 pm

Quoting BNE (Reply 32):
The A330-200 can't be all that bad as Qantas purchased 2 extra planes to start Jetstar International.

True - I had forgotten that one! So from the iniital order they have had 2 more A333's & 2 more A332's now?

Not bad for an airline "unhappy" with a type!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 14):
It was also an Airbus requirement that A380 operators had another Airbus WB type for the carrier to get the requisite Airbus flying training.

Get your hand off it. No airline would submit to that kind of blackmail. As ClassicLover said, flight simulators are purchased for a reason and pilots are poached from other airlines as well.

Back to the topic: by all accounts, QF are not as happy as they should be with their A332's as they ordered them specifically to serve as a domestic airliner. They subsequently realised there was a better application for them internationally so the requested lighter weight floors etc were no longer suitable. QF stuffed up their order and got pissed off with Airbus when they wouldn't magically fix it for free - please note that this is read-between-the-lines speculation.

Also, the A332's larger wingspan can be an encumbrance in a domestic situation.

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TS-IOR
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:39 pm

Would you propose a solution if they are not happy  Wink I'm just kidding, anyway, i think that A332s are better due to their flexibility. Is the A333X could be even more efficient for QF; considering range and payload !!!
 
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zeke
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 28):
The information I have gathered together was from an article which I had stalled away from from around 2002 when Qantas placed the order....It basically says that Qantas originally had plans to operate the -200s on regional,tasman and Asian routes....The -300s had been planned to replace the B767-238's which Qantas retired in I believe 2004...
I personally think that an A330-300 isnt a suitable replacement for the B762...
In my opinion Qantas should of purchased the -400ER which visited Qantas Jetbase in Sydney prior to the order being given to Airbus....

Correct me if I am wrong, QF get an extra 40 pax and 5000 kg of freight using the 330 on international routes over their 767s, and doing so with less fuel burn ?

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 29):
The question remains unanswered - why is QF unable to turn an A332 round in a similar time to the 767?

Its also strange when you say have a QF, CX, MH, GA 330 next to each other, with QF turning some of them around quicker than they turn their own aircraft about.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 34):
Get your hand off it. No airline would submit to that kind of blackmail. As ClassicLover said, flight simulators are purchased for a reason and pilots are poached from other airlines as well.

I think what Dale is saying is spot on, the original 330 deal was tied with the 380 deal. Every 380 operator will be an existing airbus widebody operator, with initial pilots being required to have flown widebody airbus aircraft previously.

The floors, galleys, IFE etc etc are all QF optional items, Airbus delivered the aircraft QF paid for. Other airlines paid the correct sum for the correct product. Understand the people who were responsible for the 330 configuration are no longer with QF.
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 22):
I would like to ask, CX is using these planes for SYD-HKG but why are they not payload restricted? I am a bit confused is this only the problem related to QF?

CX has the much more capable A333, the -300X. This version has a higher-rated powerplant and other things (not good with this type of thing, sorry), which in turn provides more flexibility (and range, at that).
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 36):
I think what Dale is saying is spot on, the original 330 deal was tied with the 380 deal. Every 380 operator will be an existing airbus widebody operator, with initial pilots being required to have flown widebody airbus aircraft previously.

I think you'll find that QF used the A380 to leverage a great deal on the A330. Other airlines with A380 orders didn't order thei other FBW Airbus widebodies just for the sake of the A380, they needed them in their fleets. FedEx and UPS have no experience with Airbus FBW widebodies yet they've ordered the A380.

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trex8
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:46 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 37):
CX has the much more capable A333, the -300X. This version has a higher-rated powerplant and other things (not good with this type of thing, sorry), which in turn provides more flexibility (and range, at that).

I believe all the QF A333s now have the -80E3 engine which is the highest rated thrust engine on the A333. what is less clear to some of us who have been asking for some time is whether the original A333s and the later ones had upgrades to the -X version, given they got the highest thrust engines it would seem that their MTOW s have been increased though their website says its only 212K which seems strange. Fuel tankage per QF website is consistent with that available per Airbus website and actually higher than NW says for its -323Xs.
 
mlsrar
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 38):
FedEx and UPS have no experience with Airbus FBW widebodies yet they've ordered the A380.

True, but there is no other FBW all-cargo variant available, so they were somehwat limited...
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:00 am

There's a lot of BS in this thread from some australians who i'd describe as 'stuck in the past'... of the 'one airline, QF the chosen instrument, one manufacturer - boeing' policy that the airline basically ran in its past government owned days.

Folks those days are over, and it's time to accept QF has changed. And part of that change is a willingness to fly airbus types. Now in regard to the A333s...the original plan was to purchase A330-301s. The -301 designating the lowest thrust version of the GE engine. Now i see they are using the higher thrust '-303 version of the GE engine. No doubt this reflected the change in plan of more long haul flying. Yes the A332 was a stuff up and QF have nobody but themselves to blame for that one. And perhaps they should have chosen the Trent to power their A330s too! But, the 333s are doing a lot better job on the asian routes and offering significantly lower CASM than the 763s they replaced, while offering an increase in the standard of product offered. I dont think powers at QF are really that upset with the A330.,... its more die hard 'QF and boeing' australians stuck in the past having a hard time accepting change.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 30):
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 14):
It was also an Airbus requirement that A380 operators had another Airbus WB type for the carrier to get the requisite Airbus flying training.

I never knew that before. What a complete wank! Flight simulators were invented for a reason, you know...

That seems odd: Since the only Airbus products FedEx and UPS have are A300s/A310s, that would imply the pilots would jump from them to A380, which seems to be quite a jump.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 29):
The question remains unanswered - why is QF unable to turn an A332 round in a similar time to the 767?

One thing I read is the A330 brakes take longer to cool due to their construction. The brakes warm up on landing and need time to cool enough for the next takeoff, and this takes longer on an A330 because the design presumed the planes would be used on long haul routes where turnaround times are longer.
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1stfl94
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:55 am

Maybe Qantas should have looked at the experience of Air Inter which tried using A330s on French domestic routes, they couldn't get the turnaround times short enough, aircraft would often be carrying ballast because they couldn't fill all the seats and they couldn't offer enough frequencies. Airbus sells the A330 as a medium-long haul aircraft rather than an ultra long haula and short haul aircraft which Qantas seem to be trying to do.
 
gearup
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 41):
There's a lot of BS in this thread from some australians who i'd describe as 'stuck in the past'... of the 'one airline, QF the chosen instrument, one manufacturer - boeing' policy that the airline basically ran in its past government owned days.

Folks those days are over, and it's time to accept QF has changed. And part of that change is a willingness to fly airbus types. Now in regard to the A333s...the original plan was to purchase A330-301s. The -301 designating the lowest thrust version of the GE engine. Now i see they are using the higher thrust '-303 version of the GE engine. No doubt this reflected the change in plan of more long haul flying. Yes the A332 was a stuff up and QF have nobody but themselves to blame for that one. And perhaps they should have chosen the Trent to power their A330s too! But, the 333s are doing a lot better job on the asian routes and offering significantly lower CASM than the 763s they replaced, while offering an increase in the standard of product offered. I dont think powers at QF are really that upset with the A330.,... its more die hard 'QF and boeing' australians stuck in the past having a hard time accepting change.

This seems likely and if QF are as unhappy with the A33X as some have said, they are the exception rather than the rule.
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gigneil
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The aircraft lacked the floor strength to install their business class beds. The A330-300s were subsequently reinforced, and do have Skybeds, but are unable to fly a long enough range to be worthwhile.



Quoting Koruman (Reply 11):
The A330-200s are so compromised in range and power that they haven't even been retrofitted with the Business Class product, and are having to be used on domestic short-haul routes.

All of this is Qantas' fault. Nobody elses.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 14):
It was also an Airbus requirement that A380 operators had another Airbus WB type for the carrier to get the requisite Airbus flying training.

I really would like to see that backed up with evidence. I cannot for a moment believe that any airline would succumb to that nor do I believe there is anybody at QF that would leak that kind of deal-specific information.

Training is training, and Airbus needed QF as a customer.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 26):
So, to conclude, it is QF's own bleedin' fault for not using the aircraft for what they were intended for.

This sums up the ENTIRE thing.

QF ordered the lightest MTOW option and even had the 332's floors whittled down. Now, they're finding the 332s hard to retrofit as a result.

They're flying those 333s, not even the IGW versions, on some of the longest hauls out there.

N
 
dalecary
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 45):
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 14):
It was also an Airbus requirement that A380 operators had another Airbus WB type for the carrier to get the requisite Airbus flying training.

I really would like to see that backed up with evidence. I cannot for a moment believe that any airline would succumb to that nor do I believe there is anybody at QF that would leak that kind of deal-specific information.

Training is training, and Airbus needed QF as a customer.

I will try and get something more definitive on this, but I believe there was some Airbus stipulation on this. I believe it is a reason why SQ got the 345 and will keep them until 380s are in revenue service, even though the 772LR is likely to supplant them in a few years.
 
Carpethead
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:52 am

Is QF too cheap to add an additional boarding bridge to some of its Australian airports?
We here in Japan an turnaround a 744D which has almost the twice the capacity of the A332/333 in 50 minutes. 772 can be turned around in 40 minutes.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 21):
Qantas noticed a quick turn around time of 10-20 minutes (Qantas Domestic Boeing 767's are turned around in 10-15 minutes)

Yikes. Let's see about 10 pax inbound and ten pax oubound, maybe. Physically impossible with a full pax load. If Ryanair or Southwest found a way to disembark and board a 767-size aircraft that fast, they'd be on it.
 
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zeke
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:06 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 37):
CX has the much more capable A333, the -300X. This version has a higher-rated powerplant and other things (not good with this type of thing, sorry), which in turn provides more flexibility (and range, at that).

And depending on the fitout, we have 0F/44J/267Y and 8F/32J/211Y. CX have the Trent 772 and the 772B.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 38):
FedEx and UPS have no experience with Airbus FBW widebodies yet they've ordered the A380.

They have airbus widebodies, which I think is acceptable considering they are going non-pax operations.

Before flying the 330, QF pilots did line flying with MH and KA to get experience on type as well.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 39):
I believe all the QF A333s now have the -80E3 engine which is the highest rated thrust engine on the A333. what is less clear to some of us who have been asking for some time is whether the original A333s and the later ones had upgrades to the -X version, given they got the highest thrust engines it would seem that their MTOW s have been increased though their website says its only 212K which seems strange. Fuel tankage per QF website is consistent with that available per Airbus website and actually higher than NW says for its -323Xs.

My understanding is that QF have a paper down rating on the max operating mass to reduce enroute and landing charges.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
One thing I read is the A330 brakes take longer to cool due to their construction. The brakes warm up on landing and need time to cool enough for the next takeoff, and this takes longer on an A330 because the design presumed the planes would be used on long haul routes where turnaround times are longer.

At one hour to pushback, we can have the brakes at 520 deg C, which it about double what they would be after a normal landing. Can takeoff with the brake temps at 300 deg C.

The normal cooling rate without brake fans is about 5 deg C per minute.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 46):
I will try and get something more definitive on this, but I believe there was some Airbus stipulation on this. I believe it is a reason why SQ got the 345 and will keep them until 380s are in revenue service, even though the 772LR is likely to supplant them in a few years.

Number of the 744 guys have 343 time as well. 345 was purchased at the time as it was the only aircraft that could do the job.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 47):


Yikes. Let's see about 10 pax inbound and ten pax oubound, maybe. Physically impossible with a full pax load. If Ryanair or Southwest found a way to disembark and board a 767-size aircraft that fast, they'd be on it.

I think your correct, QF does not turn around any aircraft that quick, including a DHC8. Big airlines, safety is a priority, quick turn arounds are not safe.
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EK413
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RE: Is Qantas Happy With Their A330s?

Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:54 pm

Carpethead

Quoting EK413 (Reply 21):
Qantas noticed a quick turn around time of 10-20 minutes (Qantas Domestic Boeing 767's are turned around in 10-15 minutes)

Yikes. Let's see about 10 pax inbound and ten pax oubound, maybe. Physically impossible with a full pax load. If Ryanair or Southwest found a way to disembark and board a 767-size aircraft that fast, they'd be on it.


Im referring to forward-mid-aft gallery stripped & dressed in 10-15 minutes NOT pax offloaded & reboard in 10-15mintues...Sorry for not being clear as to what I meant.....A330s take around 15-20 minutes to strip and dress the galleys....

EK413
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