OOer
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DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:28 am

Looking at deltamatic it says that this mornings flight from SLC-DTW was an MD88. I thoguht DL kept all of the 88s away from SLC, also....since when did the 88s fly this route, I know the 90s are on it regularly....but the 88s?????


Any thought or comments?
 
777klm
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:08 am

It must be a a/c change because flight DL 1166 was scheduled as a MD90
Next flight: AMS - TLV - AMS
 
cs03
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:09 am

"flightaware" shows this flight operating with both MD88/MD90 this past week.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:27 am

Hmm, might this be DL's first slow attempt at determining whether the MD-88 might actually be able to replace the MD-90s out of SLC? Maybe a bit overinterpretation, but everything's possible these days.
 
jkudall
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:56 am

Its just a swap for an MD-90. There have been a few M90's down in recent days for maintenance. Several M90 flights have cancelled out of SLC in recent days for that reason. They have managed to bring in a few M88's to fill in though.
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Jkudall (Reply 4):
Its just a swap for an MD-90. There have been a few M90's down in recent days for maintenance. Several M90 flights have cancelled out of SLC in recent days for that reason. They have managed to bring in a few M88's to fill in though.

But what the original poster was alluding to was the fact that DL does not use the MD88 out of its SLC hub for operational reasons. It was explained to me that the reason for this is that the single engine climb gradient is insuffiecient to provide safe margins along the airways out of SLC should an engine fail shortly after takeoff. DL does not simply substitute the MD88 for the MD90.
 
Delta737
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:58 am

Equipment swap.

There are about four MD-90's that are down for mx and despite what RobertS975 says, you can pretty much drop an MD-88 in for an MD-90 without many problems at all. Even in/out of SLC.

Let's just say I know the guy who flew 1166 from SEA to SLC this morning so he probably knows what he's talking about.

Doug Taylor
jetcareers.com
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:17 am

We had the swap this morning too, SLC-DFW on DL522. MD-88 instead of the MD-90. I don't think the MD-88 has any problems in SLC unless it's a real hot day. This AM, temps were still in the high 70s before the flight, so the MD-88 had no problems. I think when it's 105, combined with a 4200 ft elevation that the MD-88 starts having problems at SLC.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
twal1011727
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 5):
It was explained to me that the reason for this is that the single engine climb gradient is insuffiecient to provide safe margins along the airways out of SLC should an engine fail shortly after takeoff.

Tell that to AA. They fly MD80/MD83 from SLC to DFW.

I would say if they fly them out of ABQ at 5355' or similar airports, then SLC at 4227' is no problem.

KD MLB
 
ken4556
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:13 am

My two flights home from Denver to Atlanta on MD88's used the new 16,000' runway for take-off. We used about 10,000 feet of it last Saturday afternoon on take-off.

[Edited 2006-06-14 04:39:53]
 
OOer
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:19 am

Why do people think the MD88 performs so bad out of SLC? It operates out of DEN which is over 1k feet higher than SLC and it seems to do fine!!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:28 pm

Interesting, I wasn't aware the DL upgraded one of the DTW-SLC flights to an MD-90 (MD-88 today). I knew the morning DTW-SLC was still operating with the E-170, and that NW has added a DTW-SLC flight on Saturdays for the summer.
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 10):
Why do people think the MD88 performs so bad out of SLC? It operates out of DEN which is over 1k feet higher than SLC and it seems to do fine!!!

Because Denver is not surrounded by mountains like SLC is. Denver only has mountains to the west, and much farther to the west! It's the combination of high terrain and altitude that are the problem.

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 8):
Tell that to AA. They fly MD80/MD83 from SLC to DFW.

I would say if they fly them out of ABQ at 5355' or similar airports, then SLC at 4227' is no problem.

Again, ABQ is not surrounded by mountains like SLC, and AA's MD80s have a higher power to weight ratio than DL's MD-88s, so they are ok out of SLC. And keep in mind, most days the MD-88 is just fine for SLC. There's only a handful of days in the summer that are a problem. Although they do it safely year round, it's tight for DL's 737-800s to make SLC-BOS on a hot afternoon. They use the entire runway!
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
drewwright
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:46 am

When did the SLC-DTW flight go mainline? I worked both morning and evening flights on the 170 as recently as 2 weeks ago. I dont blame DL for going mainline on that route though. We were always full with the 170 on that route.

Drw
 
polar1
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting Drewwright (Reply 13):
When did the SLC-DTW flight go mainline? I worked both morning and evening flights on the 170 as recently as 2 weeks ago. I dont blame DL for going mainline on that route though. We were always full with the 170 on that route.

Only valid through the end of June...then back to the E170.
Theme planes flown on: N218UA, N425QX, N443SW, N501SW, N610DL, N629SW, N653UA, N784AS, N792AS, N821SK
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:17 am

They upgraded one of the flights at the start of the summer schedule, which would've been on 6/7 or so. The evening SLC-DTW flight that RON's in DTW and goes back to SLC in the morning is still an E-170. I can confirm this as I saw it there Monday morning in DTW, plus check the timetable.
 
CWAFlyer
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 5):
But what the original poster was alluding to was the fact that DL does not use the MD88 out of its SLC hub for operational reasons. It was explained to me that the reason for this is that the single engine climb gradient is insuffiecient to provide safe margins along the airways out of SLC should an engine fail shortly after takeoff. DL does not simply substitute the MD88 for the MD90.

The primary reason the MD88's did not serve SLC until recently was
because of driftdown issues, not the single engine climb. I don't
know if Delta has an in-house performance provider or how they
resolved it, but I seem to recall a SLC-LAS or SLC-LAX flight that
was an 88 a couple years ago. That was the first time I remembered
seeing them in SLC.
 
OOer
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 12):
Because Denver is not surrounded by mountains like SLC is. Denver only has mountains to the west, and much farther to the west! It's the combination of high terrain and altitude that are the problem.

Hmmm....there are really no mountains that effect planes coming in or going out of SLC...there are mountains to the west of SLC...to the east on the other side of the lake(several miles) there is no mountains to the north or south for several miles!!!!!
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:45 am

Quoting OOer (Reply 10):
Why do people think the MD88 performs so bad out of SLC? It operates out of DEN which is over 1k feet higher than SLC and it seems to do fine!!!

If you lose an engine shortly after liftoff from DEN, you have the Eastern half of the country without mountains to climb at whatever climb gradient is possible, that is to say that climb gradient out of DEN is not an issue.

Quoting OOer (Reply 17):
Hmmm....there are really no mountains that effect planes coming in or going out of SLC...there are mountains to the west of SLC...to the east on the other side of the lake(several miles) there is no mountains to the north or south for several miles!!!!!

I don't have an IFR chart handy, but if the weather is IMC, the planes need to stick to the published airways. The minimum crossing altitudes on the airways out of SLC dictate a certain climb gradient which apparently the MD88 cannot cannot meet on certain one engine situations. If the weather is severe clear, then it is easy to thread your way around the mountains with even a meager climb rate.

Ask this question: why has DL avoided scheduled flights with the MD88 to/from SLC for so many years, an aircraft that DL has a considerable number of? If itt was operationally feasible, then the MD88 would have ben a frequent sight at SLC for years.
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
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RE: DL 1166 Today. An MD88 SLC-DTW?

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 18):
I don't have an IFR chart handy, but if the weather is IMC, the planes need to stick to the published airways. The minimum crossing altitudes on the airways out of SLC dictate a certain climb gradient which apparently the MD88 cannot cannot meet on certain one engine situations. If the weather is severe clear, then it is easy to thread your way around the mountains with even a meager climb rate.

Not quite. The weather being IMC does not require any changes to how
the flight plans are filed or how the airplane is flown. The required 2.5
degree climb gradient is a certification requirement to a certain altitude,
typically flap retraction altitude, not the enroute crossing altitudes.

Each airline has an engine out profile for each airplane at certain airports.
Even if it is severe clear, they follow this profile to a specified altitude
and/or area to either continue to the takeoff alternate (if the departure
airport is below landing minimums) or return to the departure airport.
They don't just simply make up procedures and thread their way around
mountains.

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