klmflyer
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 8:15 pm

FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:15 am

I'm a platinum elite plus with SkyTeam and my base program is the Air France-KLM Flying Blue, being a European who crosses the Atlantic (round trip) at least once every 2 months.
I also frequently fly domestically within the US, mainly EWR/MIA/EWR but unless I pay the regular $333.00 one-way first class fare, which is acceptable at least on the first morning flight, I never otherwise get an upgrade from Y to F just because, although being Platinum Elite Plus, my FF program is with AF and not with CO.
Of course CO members of their FF program OnePass get unlimited and complmentary upgrades to F subject to availability.
Why this difference of treatment between the same alliance?
I believe it is useless to have 2 different programs within the same alliance?
The official answer provided by CO customer service is that AF/KL does not reciprocate the facility of the upgrade to CO FF flyers when in Europe!
I wonder who is the airline in Europe who does offer complimentary upgrades to C-class on domestic/international route within Europe!
Any insight?
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting KLMflyer (Thread starter):
Of course CO members of their FF program OnePass get unlimited and complmentary upgrades to F subject to availability.

They do? Funny, that's news to us!!!

Maybe to triple platinums with golden teeth and titanium finger nails... which, it turns out, you are.

But if AF/KL won't do it, I guess CO doesn't feel obligated, either.

I just wish there was a consistency to earning miles among partner airlines. Delta won't let you put in any frequent flier number but their own when booking... ridiculous.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3941
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 1):
They do? Funny, that's news to us!!!


I get my upgrades all the time. Trick is to learn what fare is best to have at the 5 day upgrade day for Platinums with CO, then make sure the first cabin is not the 8 seat B735, get your ticket early because all that is calculated into the upgrading of what passengers if any that marketing releases for upgrades, and yes all mine are comp upgrades. It is a fine science for sure but it works, now with the alliance members, other than NW which I have flown on only 2 times and both got my upgrade, I am not sure of. I know DL is horrible with upgrades if any at all.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
sk601
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting KLMflyer (Thread starter):
The official answer provided by CO customer service is that AF/KL does not reciprocate the facility of the upgrade to CO FF flyers when in Europe!

This is sort of, correct. I worked for KLM passenger services in AMS. The procedure is as follows: NO complimentary upgrades - for NOBODY! Free upgrades are only done in case Y-class is oversold and we need to accomodate Y-passengers in C-class. First to be upgraded are the AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum Elite/Gold Elite, then NW Platinum/Gold, AF/KL Silver Elite/ NW Silver, followed by other Skyteam Elite members (i.e. CO/DL/KE/AZ/MX and so on). No upgrades for Y class "award-miles tickets". Personally I upgraded full-fare Y passengers first (especially the ones with the PE/GE card) and then the rest.
 
deltaffindfw
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 2):
I know DL is horrible with upgrades if any at all.

Interesting comment. I'm DL PM and always get upgraded. Now, if you are silver, you probably won't. But I see a lot of golds upgraded also.

As for the original post, DL does not offer free upgrades outside of the US to PMs on DL flights, so it makes sense that other Sky carriers wouldn't upgrade either.
 
runway23
Posts: 1914
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:17 pm

Only way you will get upgrades in the US with a Flying Blue elite card is with NWA who have an agreement with AF/KL (and also a seperate one with CO) to upgrade. There is no such agreement between AF/KL and CO or DL.

The whole notion of recriprocacy isn't really valid. Continental has always been an odd ball in SkyTeam (especially towards FB members).

Quoting SK601 (Reply 3):
Personally I upgraded full-fare Y passengers first (especially the ones with the PE/GE card) and then the rest.

I hope that there are some who actually follow the order of Elite before fare. Elite passengers generate a clear stream of revenue wnilst those on a higher fare might only fly once per year.

To my knowledge, the only airline who provide space available upgrades in Europe are CSA (also done for FB Plats).
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3941
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 4):
As for the original post, DL does not offer free upgrades outside of the US to PMs on DL flights, so it makes sense that other Sky carriers wouldn't upgrade either.

The reason I mentioned the DL horrible part, as they don't upgrade SkyTeam members period, or so I've read and been told....could be incorrect but don't think so.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting KLMflyer (Thread starter):
Of course CO members of their FF program OnePass get unlimited and complmentary upgrades to F subject to availability.

Interesting thing is that NW elite FF members also receive unlimited space-availabile upgrades on domestic CO flights. (and the reverse is also true)....but it's an agreement outside of the alliance.
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
TANS
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 10:46 pm

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
To my knowledge, the only airline who provide space available upgrades in Europe are CSA (also done for FB Plats).

Absolutely right. I am Elite Plus with them and since about two years (when I became one) I have always been upgraded. Considering I fly at leat once a month, I have become an absolutely loyal customer of theirs  Smile
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6875
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 4):
Now, if you are silver, you probably won't.

Though this silver is 12/13 this year on upgrades (only one that didn't clear was a red-eye LAS-ATL).

Jeff
 
sk601
Posts: 896
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 11:46 pm

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
I hope that there are some who actually follow the order of Elite before fare. Elite passengers generate a clear stream of revenue wnilst those on a higher fare might only fly once per year.

The upgrade order is a guideline, not a rule. In general I do follow the guideline. Many platinum members think that they are the only one on board with a platinum card (and think that they own the a/c*), however there are many flights (especially LHR, CDG, MXP, BCN, NCE) with 15-20 PE/GE members-and for intercontinental flights even more (JFK, YYZ, LOS, IAH, BKK, SIN) In such a case I upgrade the PEs with the full fare and not just the first off the list (which will be someone with a last name starting with "A" 'cause its alphabethical). In some cases non-elite passengers are upgraded, because of the full fare ticket. I agree with you about the "stream of revenue" from PE members, but a full fare paying y-class passenger who is treated with just a bit more attention, can become the PE of the future or at least will make that airline his first choice in the future.


* don't get me wrong; there are MANY MANY nice Elite passengers who kindly ask for an upgrade and don't yell if they can't get it, it's just that a few spoiled PEs/GEs (mostly man, why??) DEMAND an upgrade and scream like a baby if they can't get it. Working at an airport is like working at a kindergarten sometimes. The kids start screaming as well if they don't get their candy.  cool   silly 

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 5):
To my knowledge, the only airline who provide space available upgrades in Europe are CSA (also done for FB Plats

I did the gate handling for OK many times in AMS. It's indeed true that PE/GE members can get a free upgrade on OK operated flights, regardless of how full/empty m-class is. However, upgrades are given only if there are enough C-class meals. Usually they have 3-5 extra meals onboard. We were not allowed to upgrade PE/GE pax in advance. The passenger has to ask for it at the gate. If he doesn't ask, he doesn't get it. OK cardholders have preference above other Skyteam cardholders.
 
deltaffindfw
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:42 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 6):
The reason I mentioned the DL horrible part, as they don't upgrade SkyTeam members period, or so I've read and been told....could be incorrect but don't think so.

True - but I could say the same things about CO and NW. They only upgrade each other but none of the rest of us in Skyteam.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3941
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting DeltaFFinDFW (Reply 11):
True - but I could say the same things about CO and NW.

Say it then, say it!!  Big grin

Heck you can't even earn segmets or miles on some SkyTeam members unless you are flying on a full fare ticket, not even some refundables get you seg/miles.....so is the advantage there for those of us who fly often to use other members??? Not for me.

Quoting SK601 (Reply 10):
don't get me wrong; there are MANY MANY nice Elite passengers who kindly ask for an upgrade and don't yell if they can't get it, it's just that a few spoiled PEs/GEs (mostly man, why??) DEMAND an upgrade and scream like a baby if they can't get it

I am one of the very grateful ones I hope everytime for the upgrades, but I am more amused with the Siver or Gold that scream, like IAH-DFW flights are always full of Platinum members on CO so you either buy a full fare ticket or first class to sit there, very few get upgrades on those flights and you should hear the whining, "but I'm Silver and am supposed to be upgraded" whaaaaaawhaaaaaaa. Go take your seat in row 30 of the 25 row airplane.  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 9):
Though this silver is 12/13 this year on upgrades (only one that didn't clear was a red-eye LAS-ATL).

I'm 1/4 this year... The only one I've cleared was a BusinessFirst Configured 752, and that makes up for not clearing any of the others  Smile

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
mikkel777
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 1:15 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:32 am

That is the reason I usually choose NW on intra-US flights, ahead of CO. Anyway, as FB Plat, you still have full acess to exit-row for yourself and travel companion. A nice perk.
 
MANmatt
Posts: 861
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:23 am

RE: FF Programs Within The Same Alliance (SkyTeam)

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 10):
don't get me wrong; there are MANY MANY nice Elite passengers who kindly ask for an upgrade and don't yell if they can't get it, it's just that a few spoiled PEs/GEs (mostly man, why??) DEMAND an upgrade and scream like a baby if they can't get it. Working at an airport is like working at a kindergarten sometimes. The kids start screaming as well if they don't get their candy

I hate this too. I work for KL at MAN and it really really winds me up when the FFs come up and demand things!! Like one guy came up and said "am i going to be upgraded due to my loyalty?" When i said we weren't upgrading on that flight, he took he pass and just walked off in a sulk! Some people really piss me off when they don't get what they want! Some people think they own the airline sometimes!  banghead 

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