aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:08 am

I was just looking round for an Air NZ flight to London in August and found a rather startling piece of information that I had never heard of before.

Apparently, Air NZ no longer reward passengers travelling on their "Global Maxi Saver" (or whatever they're called) fares. Exactly when did this happen and why are they now treating economy pax like dirt? I wouldn't mind, of course, if they in fact offered lower prices in exchange for fewer benefits, but instead the cheapest possible fare (before airport/security charges) was NZ$2,700.

When compared to just about every other airline flying between NZ and Europe, not only do most (if not all) offer some form of frequent flyer reward, but they are also substantially cheaper.

So, just to update for those who might be considering joing the stingiest frequent flyer scheme in the entire world...

1. Charge of NZ$50 to join (so very prestigious you see)
2. Penalty of 20-30 (I forget exactly how many) NZ Airdollars a year for avoiding their declining service like the plague
3. Absolutely no rewards for long haul economy, "Global Maix- whatever" class

I suggest to anyone thinking of joining, to simply not. More a public service announcement than anything.
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:19 am



May I recommend this product. Very effective for those choking on their own indignation  Wink
-
 
flyjetstar
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:50 am

Well you are lucky then that there are lots of other airlines for you to choose.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:04 pm

Quoting TG992 (Reply 1):
May I recommend this product. Very effective for those choking on their own indignation

Exactly the kind of dismissive, arrogant response I have come to expect from NZ employees. Thank you for reaffiriming that it is a just and valid observation that public sector employees are, by and large, this way inclined.

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 2):
Well you are lucky then that there are lots of other airlines for you to choose.

Oh yes, after having paid $50 for the "priviledge" of being an Airpoints member. But you're right, lucky I have the opportunity to fly other airlines. I am curiouos though, has NZ decided to pursue a policy of making it a lot easier to use Airpoints, while simultaneously making it a hell of a lot harder to actually earn those Airpoints? And if so, has this been announced previously?
 
flyjetstar
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Wor

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 3):
Quoting TG992 (Reply 1):
May I recommend this product. Very effective for those choking on their own indignation

Exactly the kind of dismissive, arrogant response I have come to expect from NZ employees. Thank you for reaffiriming that it is a just and valid observation that public sector employees are, by and large, this way inclined.

Aerokiwi you set yourself up for that one. You are often having a go at NZ so its to be expected that an NZ employee is going to say something to you even if it might be tongue in cheek.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 3):
And if so, has this been announced previously?

Yes I have been aware of this am I'm not worried. I am flying to MNL later this year on SQ and the ticket has no points on it so it might not just be a NZ thing. From what I understand NZ are pitching Airpoints at the frequent long-haul traveller not the one who makes one long-haul trip a year. And anyway here in NZ there are a number of ways of increasing your Airpoints balance without flying.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:21 pm

I have long discovered that people at Airpoints are full of crap. You know how they claim Airpoints is now based on fares paid not distance flown. And yet when Air NZ announced that all the fares were going to increase by 10% you know what they did. They raised the Airpoints redemption rates by 10% and earning rate unchanged. And that applis to all Star Alliance partners. I fail to see how a 10% NZ fare increase has anything to do with partners.

And don't forget they charge $100 per booking for all Star awards.

[Edited 2006-06-14 05:24:24]
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:17 pm

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 4):
Aerokiwi you set yourself up for that one. You are often having a go at NZ so its to be expected that an NZ employee is going to say something to you even if it might be tongue in cheek.

And got EXACTLY what I was hoping for, legitimising increased scrutiny and criticism of the airline. You know, that thing you are so against. I never realised pointing out inherent contradictions and company PR bollacks was "having a go at Air NZ", but if so, then so be it, I shall continue to do so.

Interestingly, the department I work for within this (publicly owned and run) organisation recently (a few weeks ago) changed its staff travel policy to pretty much avoid NZ wherever possible, including domestic services. (Though because of the large amount of Pacific Island travel a lot of staff do here, NZ will still be used there.) The reasons for this were never made clear, instead being described in the email as a measure enforced "due to a series of service changes by Air New Zealand in relation to alternative carriers' offerings".

I'm starting to think I know what those service changes are.

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 4):
And anyway here in NZ there are a number of ways of increasing your Airpoints balance without flying.

If you mean credit cards, they increased fees and reduced points-earned about a year ago I believe (maybe more), making the earning of Airpoints even harder. Again, NZ gives with one hand (redeeming points made easier) but fully takes with the other (earning points now nigh on impossible).

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 4):
Yes I have been aware of this am I'm not worried. I am flying to MNL later this year on SQ and the ticket has no points on it so it might not just be a NZ thing.

I wonder, are you using an NZ frequent flyer card or SQ? If SQ, did you pay $50 for the "honour" of being a member? And do competitors offer cheaper fares and rewards on this route? Because THAT is the situation we are discussing here.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:32 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):
If you mean credit cards, they increased fees and reduced points-earned about a year ago I believe (maybe more), making the earning of Airpoints even harder. Again, NZ gives with one hand (redeeming points made easier) but fully takes with the other (earning points now nigh on impossible).

I totally agree with this. If you think about it, NZ don't need Airbucks to make all seats available to Airpoints. It could simply increase the number of kilometers/miles needed to purchase the next available seat. All NZ did was playing some mind game which only made people realize the good part and hiding the worse part so well. Maybe the Commerce Commission should look into this as well.
 
flyjetstar
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:52 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):

If you mean credit cards, they increased fees and reduced points-earned about a year ago I believe (maybe more), making the earning of Airpoints even harder. Again, NZ gives with one hand (redeeming points made easier) but fully takes with the other (earning points now nigh on impossible).

Yeah. I use my credit card lots and am doing OK with getting Airpoints so I can't complain. Earning points isn't impossible, it's all in how you manage what is available to you to get points.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):
I wonder, are you using an NZ frequent flyer card or SQ? If SQ, did you pay $50 for the "honour" of being a member? And do competitors offer cheaper fares and rewards on this route? Because THAT is the situation we are discussing here.

No points were available to anyone regardless of which airlines scheme you were a member on. For the dates I am travelling they were the cheapest. I guess if I wanted points I could have chosen more. I think SQ is free to join.

Anyway you paid the $50 to join, as did I. It's their program and they reserve the right to change the rule, you know that when you join. From what I have heard they are not alone in trying to make a FF scheme more financialy viable for the airline running it. You're gutted you paid $50 for a scheme which is no longer working for you. That's life man, you win some you loose some. In the grand scheme of things its not that massive, I mean we still live in a great place and have jobs etc. I don't mean to be smart just provide a little perspective.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:54 pm

Many airlines have low or no ff earning ability on lower fare classes ( CX , SQ , BD to name a few ) - while it may seem a bit hard on those travelling on the lower fares it is certainly more equitable for those travelling on the higher yield ones - in the bad old days someone travelling on a full business fare AKL-LON earned only 25% more points than someone travelling on the cheapest economy class fare in spite of often having paid 4 times as much for the ticket - a common practice with many airlines and certainly a slap in the face to those high end passengers who constitute the real Frequent Flyers for an airline rather than those travelling every couple of years on cheap tickets .
 
rongotai
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 11:59 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:55 pm

Well - I'm a person who still has a quarter of a million QF FF points, earned before changing back to NZ and becoming Gold on them very quickly. It is true that generating on NZ is stingier, but just try USING the oh so generous QF points in any way that is half way reasonably convenient.

I knew all about the changes at NZ when that happened. I am pretty much happy wih NZ except for their continued use of the hell at LAX - which is what drove me to QF in the first place. When they start the HKG route I'll be quite happy (although Fyfe's comments about the LHR services made me nervous).

Fortunately I now have an escape from my hitherto unusable QF points. They are redeemable on Air Vanuatu, you can actually get seats to Port Vila, and my son has just gone to live there. There is the irritation of the day old bread in the QF lounges at AKL, but you can't have everything....

On the whole Aerokiwi's postings here don't accord to my general experience. And the new cabins are superb.

Oh yes, and anyone who takes cheap shots at anyone just on the basis of stereotypes about who they are and where they work is beneath my contempt. (But I'm always happy to take cheap shots at people who take cheap shots).
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:24 pm

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 8):
No points were available to anyone regardless of which airlines scheme you were a member on. For the dates I am travelling they were the cheapest. I guess if I wanted points I could have chosen more. I think SQ is free to join.

Then it's not a fair comparison. Give me a situation where there are a number of airlines offering competitive fares and offering benefits, like we currently have on the NZ-Europe market, and we've got something to compare it to.

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 8):
Anyway you paid the $50 to join, as did I. It's their program and they reserve the right to change the rule, you know that when you join.

Yes but at the time of joining I doubt many people had access to market information regarding alternative schemes. I'm absolutely positive that Air NZ relies on imperfect knowledge to get away with the $50 fee. Most people probably just assume it's normal. Well it's not and they should be told (I look forward to hearing the bleats about it being their own fault).

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 9):
Many airlines have low or no ff earning ability on lower fare classes ( CX , SQ , BD to name a few )

Are these on longhaul flights (shorthaul seems to be just about all non-ff these days)? Are their fares competitive with the competition? That is, are the fares offered by BD, CX etc reflective of the lower service offering, in relation to the competition?

Quoting Rongotai (Reply 10):
Oh yes, and anyone who takes cheap shots at anyone just on the basis of stereotypes about who they are and where they work is beneath my contempt. (But I'm always happy to take cheap shots at people who take cheap shots).

Aren't we high and mighty? Reply 1 by TG992 was smart-a**e at best. It added nothing, explained nothing. I have equal contempt for such responses. There was no argument, no reasoning, no substance, simply a dismissive response. Again, I don't mind being wrong when things are explained reasonably and logically, but if you're not even going to offer that in a post, why bother posting?

And as someone who works in the public service, I know all too well the attitude of such employees. It is something i have noticed a lot in Air NZ of late, from management down. There's even a play being re-released about such behaviour - I suggest you see it Rongotai. So forgive me if my experiences with the "public face" of Air NZ lead me to draw conclusions about the company as a whole. I believe that's partly what public-face employees are there to do.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:44 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 11):
Yes but at the time of joining I doubt many people had access to market information regarding alternative schemes.

I am not sure whether you are serious - if people fail to shop around and make comparisons then they only have themselves to blame if they dont get the best deal
 
rongotai
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 11:59 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:45 pm

Ah yes! That's me. High and mighty. Thanks for recognising my thoroughly deserved status.
 
flyjetstar
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Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:47 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 11):
Then it's not a fair comparison. Give me a situation where there are a number of airlines offering competitive fares and offering benefits, like we currently have on the NZ-Europe market, and we've got something to compare it to.

What I meant was I chose the cheapest SQ fare. There was CX/SQ/QF/MH and Asiana to choose from but were just a little more expensive. (I'm travelling with 7 other people hence real cheap fare) They all had points etc. Is that what you are after?
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:50 pm

A few things-

1) My understanding when Air NZ launched Airpoints Dollars was that the whole concept was based around frequent fliers being able to earn points/miles on every flight (i.e. regardless of the special t&c or how cheap the fare was). Certainly this was how it was marketed. To me this is the whole point of Airpoints Dollars and it is based on valid principles - they are rewarding customers directly on the amount of money spent with the airline. They should have a really basic table and then provide bonuses or premiums for higher yielding fares rather than penalising loyal customers.

2) Although many airlines have fare classes, specials, etc which are not elegible for frequent flier points/miles, I comlpetely DISAGREE with the principle. Airlines are supposed to be rewarding people who choose to fly them in an environment of very stiff competition - there are always going to be other carriers with specials which force airlines to lower the cost, but marketing loyalty benefits is a strong point of product differentiation.

3) But my all time pet peeve with respect to FFP programmes are the ones which implement 'service charges', 'fuel levies', etc on redemption bookings! For goodness sake, this is part of the airlines' operational costs!!! When are consumer watchdogs finally going to clue on to this and insist that fuel charges, taxes, and 'additional overcharges' are fully included and not segregated in the advertised fares.

I tell you, if I wasn't an industry employee, had been earning miles, and then the airline which I had been loyal to for so long told me I had to pay the late 1990's fare cost in these charges alone just for a 'free' redemption ticket I would be pretty annoyed and would pursue legal action. Sure, they will fall back on their terms and conditions, but I can immediately think of several areas where they would be liable under misrepresentating or misleading advertising. The basic premises is that if the consumer does not have the option of availing the service without these charges, they should not be be excluded in advertised fares.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 15):
1) My understanding when Air NZ launched Airpoints Dollars was that the whole concept was based around frequent fliers being able to earn points/miles on every flight (i.e. regardless of the special t&c or how cheap the fare was). Certainly this was how it was marketed.

no ,it was marketed around being able to SPEND them on any seat on any flight - unlike the previous scheme , which , like most others , limited redemptions to a specific number of seats on any given flight ... and if those had already gone you were SOOL no matter how many points you hd

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 15):
2) Although many airlines have fare classes, specials, etc which are not elegible for frequent flier points/miles, I comlpetely DISAGREE with the principle. Airlines are supposed to be rewarding people who choose to fly them in an environment of very stiff competition - there are always going to be other carriers with specials which force airlines to lower the cost, but marketing loyalty benefits is a strong point of product differentiation.

so a customer who pays rock bottom should get the same rewards as a high spending customer ? The airline is only doing what many other industries do , recognising those customers who contribute more to the bottom line and rewarding them .
 
flyjetstar
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:07 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
so a customer who pays rock bottom should get the same rewards as a high spending customer ? The airline is only doing what many other industries do , recognising those customers who contribute more to the bottom line and rewarding them .

That's a good call. When someone flies once a year long-haul chances are they have chosen on price not out of loyalty and are on a discounted ticket that the airlines are not making much, if any cash on. Why should they be rewarded?
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
so a customer who pays rock bottom should get the same rewards as a high spending customer ? The airline is only doing what many other industries do , recognising those customers who contribute more to the bottom line and rewarding them .

Not at all. But simply offer a tiered level of rewards as so many other carriers do. For example, 50-70 percent for the cheaper economy fares, 100 percent for full-economy etc.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 12):
am not sure whether you are serious - if people fail to shop around and make comparisons then they only have themselves to blame if they dont get the best deal

Hardly. I would argue there is a general misunderstanding perpetuated by airlines that frequent flyer schemes are often nationality based. And remember that an awful lot of members joined well before the days of widespread internet, eg. 1990s. Even now, where do you expect someone with NO knowledge of the industry to start seeking information? You go to the internet and google frequent flyer schemes from new zealand and what exactly do you think will appear?

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 14):
What I meant was I chose the cheapest SQ fare. There was CX/SQ/QF/MH and Asiana to choose from but were just a little more expensive. (I'm travelling with 7 other people hence real cheap fare) They all had points etc. Is that what you are after?

Ah, so SQ offered the cheapest fare available and offered the level of service corresponding with that fare.

Air NZ's approach is to charge the highest fares in the market but provide a service that does not reflect those fares. I was ready to give NZ longhaul a go. MH, here I come.

[Edited 2006-06-14 08:14:55]
 
flyjetstar
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 18):
MH, here I come.

Well enjoy I hear they are great!  Yeah sure
 
User avatar
alaskaqantas
Posts: 856
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RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:37 pm

I will admit that I'm not all to thrilled about the whole AIRPOINTS thing. It not the best system, I have been trying to get points on my dads account when he flew from AKL-SFO and back in premium, but you have to keep the ticket... well he didn't do that so now... to put it bluntly... we don't have as many points.
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.
I don't want to say that it's terrible and I want to shot NZ, no I'm glad that I can even get some airpoints, but for such a good airline I'm surprised.. thats it
to some people the sky is the limit, to aviation enthusiasts, its home!
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1463
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:38 pm

I was with them but when you only get 300 AP for a return LHR-AKL its a joke, gone back to good old BD - now back up to 'Star Alliance Silver' one return trip with them on LHR-AKL gets you 22,000 miles and only need 38,000 to reach Gold, the whole anz program is not as easy as it is made out to be,
Vietnam time..
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7573
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RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:09 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 11):
Aren't we high and mighty?

When you fly as much as Rongotai does you can afford to have an elevated (and more enlightened) opinion of airlines & the benefits & disadvantages of air travel.

I actually agree with NZ's policy on airpoints. Passengers that are not willing to fork out the cash should not be having their cake and eating it too. Airpoints programs are a massive liability for any airline, and for someone that flies infrequently to be a gold status member does not give enough value to those Gold Elites that spend upward of $20,000NZD a year to maintain their status and advantages that they actually deserve. For those who want to just buy their way into status we have the Koru Club... End of Story.

Frequent Flyer means just that... Status in return for true loyalty - not for those who pay the cheapest ticket and expect the earth in return.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:10 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 16):
Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 15):
2) Although many airlines have fare classes, specials, etc which are not elegible for frequent flier points/miles, I comlpetely DISAGREE with the principle. Airlines are supposed to be rewarding people who choose to fly them in an environment of very stiff competition - there are always going to be other carriers with specials which force airlines to lower the cost, but marketing loyalty benefits is a strong point of product differentiation.

so a customer who pays rock bottom should get the same rewards as a high spending customer ? The airline is only doing what many other industries do , recognising those customers who contribute more to the bottom line and rewarding them .

If you read my statement carefully, you will see that I do indeed mention that it is an issue with many airlines. Secondly, as I alluded to, this was how I believed Airpoints Dollars were marketed - you pay a higher fare you receive more reward, you pay a rock-bottom fare you get a rock-bottom loyalty recognition.

The concept is Loyalty, and there is no difference between that and a credit card for instance. Are you suggesting that credit cards don't give you loyalty points if you purchase items on special in shops? If you spend one dollar on your credit card you get one point. If you spend 1,000 dollars you get 1,000 points.

Again, if you read my statement clearly, you will see I also suggested providing benefit premiums for higher yielding tickets.
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:15 pm

That isn't even the worst of it.

I recently flew on several BD flights in economy subclasses for which BD say that they awarded (and allocated to Air NZ) 50% of the standard economy class points. BDs classes Q, V and O aren't even tiny fares (which earn only 25%).

But Air NZ, contrary to what my Airpoints manual and their own website said at the time, now say that BD classes Q and V earn no points.

Now I know damn well that they do, but that NZ basically steals those points from its frequent flyers. But they know that we're not going to go to court for the sake of a few dollars.
 
nz777
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:52 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:46 pm

Another perspective

I had previously booked a business companion FF ticket on NZ for AKL/HKG/SIN/AKL (yes I wanted both my partner & i to experience business premier on the 777).

My employer decided that I needed to be at work during the same time (yes my leave was approved but things happen).

I then contacted the Airports centre and asked about altering the flights to early next year. There was no problem, they were very helpful to the point where whilst I was on the telephone to them at work we experienced a major black out (in Sydney, not Auckland) and our telephones "died" as well. Within 3 minutes the same person I was talking to at the FF Centre actually rang me back on my mobile and continued the booking alteration.

I have never experienced any problem booking economy or business seats with Air NZ.

If you want hassles, try QF!
Air New Zealand, nothing else needed to be said...
 
AKLDELNonstop
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:04 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:49 pm

Hey Guys,

My 2 cents. I neither agree nor disagree with NZ's policy. After all it is there policy. But from my point of view, that is of a customer, when I flew Thai to Asia, I earned around 20000 miles, and earning around 70000 miles will give me a free flight.This was on Q class, which is low fare.

Had I chosen to fly NZ, I would not have earned any miles for a comparative fare. Even if I did buy a fare that earns miles I would have got 80 airpoints for the flight. And a free flight would cost me around 805 airpoints.

So in TG for every 3.3 flights I get a free flight and in NZ for every 10. Thats just ridiculous. Thats not even a comparison. Also may I mention that TG service is far superior to NZ, in terms of meals, IFE(on their new 346) and crew attitude.

SO much as I would love to fly the flag carrier of the country I reside in; common sense and economics dictate otherwise.

NZ is free to choose their policy. I am also free to choose who I fly.
 
nzrich
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:32 pm

I know there are some emotive comments regarding Reward schemes .. In the end with most airlines now feeling the pinch in the bottom line i wouldn't be surprised to see more airlines looking at their reward schemes as they are classed as a liability

In the end you really have 2 choices

1 a airline that gives you lots of points but is frustratingly hard to get a decent reward on ie QF
2 a airline that gives out points but may not always be as high as some of its competitors but allows you to redeem them on any seat on any flight ie NZ
"Pride of the pacific"
 
luftaom
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 6):
Interestingly, the department I work for within this (publicly owned and run) organisation recently (a few weeks ago) changed its staff travel policy to pretty much avoid NZ wherever possible, including domestic services. (Though because of the large amount of Pacific Island travel a lot of staff do here, NZ will still be used there.) The reasons for this were never made clear, instead being described in the email as a measure enforced "due to a series of service changes by Air New Zealand in relation to alternative carriers' offerings".

I'm starting to think I know what those service changes are.

I'm sure NZ taxpayers are glad to know that their taxes are being wisely spent on your frequent flyer balance.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:08 pm

Quoting Luftaom (Reply 28):
I'm sure NZ taxpayers are glad to know that their taxes are being wisely spent on your frequent flyer balance.

Arguably, New Zealand taxpayers should be concerned that they are paying higher prices and receiving lower service than competing carriers for short-term gain for the airline. Long-term, moves such as this are likely to only alienate once-loyal NZ customers, thus affecting long-term profitability, along with reputation. Shareholders like the NZ taxpayer should be very concerned by that.

By your logic, NZ should have a monopoly on all routes so as to maximise profitability...hmmmm, NO thankyou.
 
skyhigh
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:37 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:19 pm

Virgin Blue have a great advertising campaign slogan here in Sydney at the moment "Loyalty shouldn't come at a cost" (or something to that effect).

It is bad enough having to pay once to prove your loyalty to an airline, such as QF, which was AU$70 in 2001. As it happened I escaped paying that as I was a member of the BA program which was free to join but they closed their Australian offices and transferred everyone to QF for free.

Even more infuriating is having to pay NZ's annual fee if you haven't flown with them that year.

I use to fly longhaul regularly for work and had no preference for any airline as it was whoever could get me where I wanted to go in the shortest time possible. Having changed circumstances I now pay for my flights and only travel for pleasure, approx 4 times a year. I guess I am now one of those "cheap economy passengers that wants their cake and eat it to". The big difference now that I pay for my flights is that I do try and travel on Oneworld airlines as much as possible.

That and using my FF credit card give me the perk of a free longhaul trip every 18-24 months, which is a drop in the ocean to Qantas. I don't expect all the perks of lounge access or status points. I don't spend mega bucks, I travel on discounted fares but I remain loyal and THAT is what counts.
 
RichardJF
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 7:07 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:05 pm

This is how you deal with FF program. Lease the RG 772's ,drop LHR,start la-nice-hk,start aca-stn low frequency, rekindle stoddart, drop Q c/s, A380 delay means run a-eze-gru and s-sf. increases shareprice everybody happy.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4995
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:07 pm

I've not read the whole thread but

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 31):
This is how you deal with FF program. Lease the RG 772's ,drop LHR,start la-nice-hk,start aca-stn low frequency, rekindle stoddart, drop Q c/s, A380 delay means run a-eze-gru and s-sf. increases shareprice everybody happy.

what on earth is it now? WLG-DRW-LAX-DEL-TPE-AKL-FUK-NCE-Malalga?
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:55 pm

I'm never quite sure whether RichardJF is winding us up or whether he honestly means some of the stuff he keeps posting, so I'll take it seriously and reply.

Drop London? Right. It's one end of two of the three highest yielding sectors on the network (LHR-LAX and LHR-AKL), so get rid of it, even though passenger numbers from the UK to NZ on Air NZ have doubled since 2000. OK, but can you explain why this needs to go?

Los Angeles - Nice - Hong Kong? Now firstly, why would these countries grant the New Zealand flag carrier traffic rights? Secondly, why would this be profitable, given that Air France has never seen fit to open such a route and has the Frequent Flyer loyalty of French and American (DL, CO, NW) passengers.

Acapulco - Stansted? Now this boggles the mind even more. Neither British Airways or BMI have shown any indication that they think such a route is viable, and again why would Air NZ get traffic rights? The only airlines flying from the UK to leisure destinations in Mexico are all-economy class charter carriers (which have large UK operations), which does not suggest a massive Business Class market.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but Nice, Stansted and Acapulco have very limited Star Alliance feed connections, not to mention a lack of lounges for Star elite passengers.

90% of the European market to New Zealand is from the UK, and that percentage is increasing. I don't understand why Air NZ should want to renounce that market and replace it with Nice and Acapulco. But I'd love to know, so please put me right!
 
luftaom
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:32 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 29):
the NZ taxpayer should be very concerned by that.

Why? I would have thought it would have meant that the public service was paying lower fares out of consolidated revenue and receiving transportation for public purposes and no private kickback (frequent flyer points).
 
NZ8800
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:28 pm

I can only say I had no trouble whatever either earning or spending Airpoints with Air New Zealand.

I paid the mid range fares to earn the Airpoints - and why not? Why should those who pay less - below the Airpoint threshold - get rewarded along with the ones who pay more?

You also get more "fine print rights" of course with the Airpoint level fares - such as being able to change the dates with lower or no penalty fees, depending on how much money you pay.
I also found that particularly when booking internet domestic fares, there is often only $80 or so difference on the return fare between the lowest fare, and the mid range fare that gives you the airpoints as well. I recently flew NPL - WRE for about $250 return - about as much as driving there would cost - and got airpoints for it.

Of course, some may say that a 34000 mile round world ticket, + Napier - Nadi, New Plymouth - Brisbane, and New Plymouth - Wellington x 2 should equal more than one ticket from New Plymouth to Tongatapu!
Others, including myself, would say that in this age of rapidly rising fuel prices, ANY free flight is pretty good!

Quoting Rongotai (Reply 10):
Well - I'm a person who still has a quarter of a million QF FF points, earned before changing back to NZ and becoming Gold on them very quickly. It is true that generating on NZ is stingier, but just try USING the oh so generous QF points in any way that is half way reasonably convenient.



Quoting Nzrich (Reply 27):
1 a airline that gives you lots of points but is frustratingly hard to get a decent reward on ie QF
2 a airline that gives out points but may not always be as high as some of its competitors but allows you to redeem them on any seat on any flight ie NZ

Interesting points here - I think I would take Air New Zealand and similar over Qantas any day - as we cannot have perfect, better to have the harder to earn but easier to spend option!

Quoting Flyjetstar (Reply 17):
When someone flies once a year long-haul chances are they have chosen on price not out of loyalty and are on a discounted ticket that the airlines are not making much, if any cash on. Why should they be rewarded?

Exactly. The money is made on the Business, Premier Economy, and the higher end of the Economy class fares. They are effectively subsidising the promotional fares and the lowest levels of economy class fares. So why should those low fares earn airpoints? They're already getting a comparatively free ride.

Quoting Alaskaqantas (Reply 20):
I have been trying to get points on my dads account when he flew from AKL-SFO and back in premium, but you have to keep the ticket... well he didn't do that so now... to put it bluntly... we don't have as many points.

Sorry mate - that's in the contract you sign. It's boarding passes rather than tickets too - I neglected to keep those and was lucky to have the missing points from United flights credited to my account by sending the tickets in. They didn't have to do that.

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 22):
When you fly as much as Rongotai does you can afford to have an elevated (and more enlightened) opinion of airlines & the benefits & disadvantages of air travel

Indeed you can - well said. Rongotai is one of the people I listen to, he says little, but what he says is thought-provoking.

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 22):
Airpoints programs are a massive liability for any airline, and for someone that flies infrequently to be a gold status member does not give enough value to those Gold Elites that spend upward of $20,000NZD a year to maintain their status and advantages that they actually deserve. For those who want to just buy their way into status we have the Koru Club... End of Story

Again - well said... if you don't like it, pay the $850 or so every two years, and join the Koru Club! If I flew more often than I do, I'd definitely consider it.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 29):
Arguably, New Zealand taxpayers should be concerned that they are paying higher prices and receiving lower service than competing carriers for short-term gain for the airline. Long-term, moves such as this are likely to only alienate once-loyal NZ customers, thus affecting long-term profitability, along with reputation. Shareholders like the NZ taxpayer should be very concerned by that.

By your logic, NZ should have a monopoly on all routes so as to maximise profitability...hmmmm, NO thankyou

Fudge. Airpoints is NZ's programme, they make the rules, you as customer can take it or leave it. Their reputation, and their profitability, are built on many things other than their frequent flyer programme, such as on time arrivals, customer service, the experience on board, etcetera. Air New Zealand are actually making a profit, which is more than many carriers abroad are able to do.
NZ - and QF - have to pay higher wages than carriers like MH and SQ, which is one reason for their higher fares.

I don't mind having to pay more to fly Air New Zealand. It often costs more to support local companies and keep money in the country, but its worth it in the long run.

[Edited 2006-06-18 13:54:04]
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 35):
I don't mind having to pay more to fly Air New Zealand. It often costs more to support local companies and keep money in the country, but its worth it in the long run.

Unfortunately, in the long-run, that's a recipe for a collapsed carrier.

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 35):
Fudge. Airpoints is NZ's programme, they make the rules, you as customer can take it or leave it. Their reputation, and their profitability, are built on many things other than their frequent flyer programme, such as on time arrivals, customer service, the experience on board, etcetera. Air New Zealand are actually making a profit, which is more than many carriers abroad are able to do.

But their service standards are continuing to decline, with airfares not reflecting this level of decline. And they changed the rules quite substantially halfway...the programme I signed up and PAID for is not the programme that exists now - by a LONG shot. I want my signup fee back.

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 35):
I paid the mid range fares to earn the Airpoints - and why not? Why should those who pay less - below the Airpoint threshold - get rewarded along with the ones who pay more?

As a staunch defender of NZ, you have surely heard the CEO's argument that the differnece between profit and loss on routes such as the Tasman are only 5 or so passengers, which carriers like AR, LA and EK apparently take away from them. These pax are not the high yielding ones, yet they make all the difference between profit and loss. THus, they deserve to be rewarded.

Simply throwing NZ's arguments back in its face, like the government and media and everyone here should be doing, but so rarely actually do.

And I'm not saying you should earn the same points as someone who pays less. Instead, there should be a tiered system as other airlines have.

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 35):
Indeed you can - well said. Rongotai is one of the people I listen to, he says little, but what he says is thought-provoking.

If ever sycophancy reigned supreme...  

Interestingly, I received a letter from Airpoints in the weekend explicitly saying that "if you no longer feel the Airpoints programme is right for you, please contact us and we will close your account." EXCUSE ME??!! So are they now actively seeking to cull membership? and in such a crass way?

Wow, so ontop of declining profits, laid-off highly skilled workers, pursuing a blatantly anticompetitive alliance with QF, a CEO who gets up to some naughty business in his office with staff and alleged free flights given to prostitutes by high ranking management staff in return for sexual favours, Air NZ proceeds to arse up its frequent flyer programme as much as possible.

This airline has serious issues.

[Edited 2006-06-19 01:05:56]
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 36):
But their service standards are continuing to decline,

Care to elaborate? Are you referring to the reduced offerings Trans-Tasman, which happened well over 2 years ago? Or is this one of those fantastically scientific survey of 2 or 3 of your friends or family who had a moan because (flight has mechanical delay/cabin crew don't have large enough breasts/had to sit next to a person of size/etc)
I'm genuinely interested to know, not having a go at you - if there's anything I can learn to improve my service, I'm all for it.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 36):
a CEO who gets up to some naughty business in his office with staff

I'd stick an 'alleged' in front of there quick smart..
-
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:05 pm

TG992, the Trans-Tasman service levels are a real issue, because a large part of the market to and from SFO and LAX is actually to Australia via NZ, rather than just AKL/CHC.

I'm flying to LHR shortly ex-BNE and while the outbound BNE-AKL is not a problem, the return AKL-BNE after a 25 hour flight is a real repellent.

The model is just wrong. The focus groups / research into the Express model assumed that passengers on the Tasman and to the Pacific were just flying short-haul and could do without frills.

Big mistake: the bottom has fallen out of Americans doing two-centre RAR / NZ trips because American travel agents, when they print out the itinerary, discover that RAR-AKL is a no-frills service, something which instantly drives away people who are paying at least $8,000 per couple for a long-haul holiday. You and I know that RAR-AKL is just a short sector, but try telling that to Europeans and Americans on long-haul vacations.
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:05 pm

Quoting Koruman (Reply 38):
'm flying to LHR shortly ex-BNE and while the outbound BNE-AKL is not a problem, the return AKL-BNE after a 25 hour flight is a real repellent.

You poor wee thing - three hours in the exact same aircraft type as you've just flown LHR-LAX-AKL in, with the same crew, same seat, and same IFE, with a slightly smaller meal.

However will you cope?
-
 
NZ8800
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 36):
Unfortunately, in the long-run, that's a recipe for a collapsed carrier.

I don't agree. Certainly there is a place for foreign investment, but it's a double edged sword with a lot of profits running out of the country. I still think we should support New Zealand Owned even if it costs a bit more, and that includes the national carrier.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 36):
But their service standards are continuing to decline, with airfares not reflecting this level of decline. And they changed the rules quite substantially halfway...the programme I signed up and PAID for is not the programme that exists now - by a LONG shot. I want my signup fee back.

Then check the fine print carefully on what they said they can and cannot do, and if you remain unsatisfied, do something about it, write to Air New Zealand, file at the Small Claims Tribunal, whatever.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 36):
And I'm not saying you should earn the same points as someone who pays less. Instead, there should be a tiered system as other airlines have.

I thought that was what we did have, rock bottom fares earn no points, mid range fares earn some points, top range fares win more points.

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 36):
If ever sycophancy reigned supreme...

Since when is defending someone whose opinion you respect, and whom you believe to have been unfairly attacked, sycophancy/toadying?

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 36):
if you no longer feel the Airpoints programme is right for you, please contact us and we will close your account

Indeed, it is interesting that they say that. As you are clearly so dissatisfied with NZ, maybe you could take them up on the offer.

I have a question Aerokiwi - why do I not see you complaining about the iniquities of Qantas or Air Pacific or whoever as well as those of Air New Zealand?

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 36):
Simply throwing NZ's arguments back in its face, like the government and media and everyone here should be doing, but so rarely actually do.

Should? Interesting. Heaven forbid that anyone dare to be satisfied with the service offered by Air New Zealand, or anything at all, come to that.

Quoting TG992 (Reply 37):
I'd stick an 'alleged' in front of there quick smart..

Agree totally - his guilt has not yet been proven.

Quoting Koruman (Reply 38):
The model is just wrong. The focus groups / research into the Express model assumed that passengers on the Tasman and to the Pacific were just flying short-haul and could do without frills.

While I would certainly consider the point raised, routes within Europe are generally no frills - on a similar level to NZ's Express Service (British Airways, Lufthansa, Austrian to name a few), and definitely higher than the service offered by American carriers, where to get a free meal on many of them you have to fly a good five hours, and no meal whatever on 2-3 hour ones, where NZ does offer at least a snack of some kind. So I don't really think the American/European visitors who are apparently griping have a leg to stand on - their own airlines provide the same or lower levels of service on routes of similar length to NZ's Express Class product. Which as TG992 says, has been in service for a good two years.

Like many, I miss getting a hot slice of pizza or a bit of cheesecake on domestic flights, and a full meal service on flights to destinations like Brisbane or Nadi. But the winds of change have blown through, and now the focus seems to have changed to simply getting people from place to place. I speak only for myself, but I've found that flying with Air New Zealand does cost less than it did ten years ago.
MDZWTA ~ Mobile Disaster Zone When Travelling Abroad
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting TG992 (Reply 39):
However will you cope?

There's the attitude the prevails at air NZ - you wanted an example TG992 - well there it is for all to see.

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 40):
I don't agree.

It's not a matter of whether you agree or not. Long-run economic theory (that has all too often become fact) dictates lowest cost wins out in the end. Parochialism is great for politicians and people wanting to appear to care, but in the end, it's their wallets they care most about. Cynical - maybe. True - yes.

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 40):
Since when is defending someone whose opinion you respect, and whom you believe to have been unfairly attacked, sycophancy/toadying?

I believe I was the one being attacked as being "beneath contempt" or something similar. But don't let that get in the way of a good boo hoo

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 40):
Indeed, it is interesting that they say that. As you are clearly so dissatisfied with NZ, maybe you could take them up on the offer.

Kind of defeats the point of trying to keep customers loyal huh?

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 40):
I have a question Aerokiwi - why do I not see you complaining about the iniquities of Qantas or Air Pacific or whoever as well as those of Air New Zealand?

Becasue Air NZ touted its new scheme as being revolutionary and a huge step forward for customers in the industry - when in fact now you get NOTHING for a $2,700 fare to the UK and back. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of their PR nonsense - they take with one and give with the other, all the while decreasing their standard of service (Tasman express has failed - Fyfe has effeectively said so in his application to hookup with QF).



Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 40):
Should? Interesting. Heaven forbid that anyone dare to be satisfied with the service offered by Air New Zealand, or anything at all, come to that.

On this board it seems to be blasphemy if one questions the self-proclaimed amazingness of Air NZ.

Quoting TG992 (Reply 37):
I'd stick an 'alleged' in front of there quick smart..

Ok, fine, ALLEGED then.

Quoting NZ8800 (Reply 40):
While I would certainly consider the point raised, routes within Europe are generally no frills - on a similar level to NZ's Express Service

The thing is, the fares often reflect this lower standard of service (I recently travelled on BMI mainline from LHR to DUB for just 34 pounds RETURN) and if the mainline carriers in Europe don't have these fares, then you just trudge off to the LCCs. New ZEalanders don't really have this option. I wouldn't mind if NZ's fares actually reflected it's declining service standards, but they don't bar an occassional sale.
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:11 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 41):
Quoting TG992 (Reply 39):
However will you cope?

There's the attitude the prevails at air NZ - you wanted an example TG992 - well there it is for all to see.

I asked for an example of the declining service standards you constantly mention. That was me posting on my own time on an internet forum.

I ask again - Could you give me an example of the declining service standards that Air NZ flights feature, so I can 'better' myself? Or is this one of those fantastically scientific survey of 2 or 3 of your friends or family who had a moan because (flight has mechanical delay/cabin crew don't have large enough breasts/had to sit next to a person of size/etc)
-
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:51 pm

Stepping aside from the 'debate' for a moment - a big change to NZ domestic services is being planned and will be launched next week. I'm sure it will please everyone who flies domestically  Smile
-
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:57 pm

Quoting Aerokiwi (Thread starter):
Apparently, Air NZ no longer reward passengers travelling on their "Global Maxi Saver" (or whatever they're called) fares.

Mate where have you been???? These are a few of our partner airlines and what booking classes you don't earn points on.

JP - I,R,E,X,N
AC - Z, D, X, E, N, T, G, R, P, K
NH -I, N, O, R, X, K, V, E
OZ - L, R, N, G, O, I, X
OS - F, A, O, R, I, K, L, T, P, E, N, X
KF - W, U, K, L, T, G, N, R
BD - Q, V, G, O, W, T, N, I, X, R, E
OU - R, I, N, X
LO - I, R, P, N, U, X, E, K, T, L
LH - O, I, R, X, N, E, U, L, T
MX - G, N, T, O, R, I, X
SK - W, U, K, L, T, G , Z
SQ -G, I, N, O, Q, V, X, R, T
SA - O, X, I, U, R, N
LX - O, I, R, X, N
TP - O, I, R, P, G, X, T, U
TG - E, I, N, O, R, X H** Q*, S*, T*, K*,
US - P, E, R, G, X, I, O
RG - O, P, J, I, R, G, X, N, S, U, E
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TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 5):
I have long discovered that people at Airpoints are full of crap. You know how they claim Airpoints is now based on fares paid not distance flown. And yet when Air NZ announced that all the fares were going to increase by 10% you know what they did. They raised the Airpoints redemption rates by 10% and earning rate unchanged. And that applis to all Star Alliance partners. I fail to see how a 10% NZ fare increase has anything to do with partners.

And don't forget they charge $100 per booking for all Star awards.

Well it would wouldn't it??? Airpoint Dollars can you be used like cash to by tickets. We all know it's not real money and airpoints were devided at a rate of 74/1 when the programe changed. So when fares increase so would the amount a APD required to by the ticket. I guess you could call it airpoint dollar inflation?

[Edited 2006-06-20 10:17:21]
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1des1
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Wor

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:28 pm

Hi everyone, this is my first post on this forum, I've been reading it for a while now so thought I should start to contribute!!

I have flown NZ a lot mainly for family holidays overseas, and domestically on sporting trips and also for holidays. I have to agree that the loyalty programme is getting worse, especially when it changed over to "Air points Dollars" but again this is a change of the times I guess, NZ just can't afford to have the kind of loyalty programme it used to, we just have to get used to the fact that the golden age of flying has long past.

Back in the 1990's my family and I actually used to get free trips ANYWHERE on AN New Zealand, because my father's business put a considerable amount of tours through AN we could get free trips whenever wherever in New Zealand including free membership of the Goldern Wing Club - Now those were the best days of domestic flying! Of course look where AN New Zealand ended up...

NZ is though in my opinion the easiest to get rewards flights on - the hard part is earning the points! But even on a programme like Qantas which I also belong, it is easy to claim a rewards booking if you do it early enough - my parents managed to get a reward booking on Qantas Club Points to Fiji in June (Peak Season) this year because they booked about 9 months in advance - of course not everyone has the luxury of being able to book that far in advance.

I remember when they switched over to the "Dollars" based programme the old "Airpoints" were a liability to the company to the tune of $100 Million! Now that is a lot of free flights! I think it has dropped now considerably to about $45 - $55 Million - I will have to have a dig around the annual report. This is probably because they expire after 3 years of earning them!

But Aerokiwi you should email in and complain to Air NZ directly. I did about the new "annual fee" - I made them know just how much it irritated me and they actually refunded me the $30 ! (Seems a bit pathetic now when it is only $30!!) It appeared as a credit of "one time good will from the company" What annoyed me the most about the annual fee is it still applies even if you use your Airpoints Account for Code share flights, I think this is ridiculous as the flights of course have an NZ flight number! I can post the reply on here if anyone wants it.

Quoting TG992 (Reply 43):

Stepping aside from the 'debate' for a moment - a big change to NZ domestic services is being planned and will be launched next week. I'm sure it will please everyone who flies domestically Smile

Quoting TG992 (Reply 43):

Can I spoil the surprise? .... I will anyway

Air NZ is going to be introducing Alcoholic Beverages, soft drink and juices again on Domestic Flights. These will be in conjunction with "snack" items like chips, pretzlels etc. These will be offered at a cost.

These will only be on B737 and A320 operated domestic services between the main centres - I don't think any of the regional destinations will be getting the new food and drink services but I'm not 100 % sure.

I can't understand why NZ hasn't done this sooner, DJ, FJ and JQ make a killing on selling these across the Tasman and I don't see why domestically it can't be just as profitable � NZ already has a LCC theme to it with �Express Class� so why not charge for what is simply novelty on such short trips?

Cheers.

Des

[Edited 2006-06-20 10:32:28]
 
NZFan
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:24 am

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:38 pm

Quoting 1des1 (Reply 46):
Air NZ is going to be introducing Alcoholic Beverages, soft drink and juices again on Domestic Flights. These will be in conjunction with "snack" items like chips, pretzlels etc. These will be offered at a cost.

I can already hear a few on a.net going
"Oh no I'm paying a cheap fare, and i have to pay for drink and food, what a rip off"

 Yeah sure
 
RichardJF
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2001 7:07 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:48 pm

Diversifying away from flying people to/from New Zealand should be a key objective for NZ. Even for the NZ/UK market LHR is in fact a very poor way to serve it as you basically have two markets

New Zealanders - the average New Zealander naturally expects you to fly to London but wouldn't really care if you flew to LHR.

Britons going to New Zealand - In reality the hub players always have the natural business case on the NZ/UK market. NZ can serve the Brits going south more effectively without even flying direct to the UK.

The people that really care about flying to Heathrow are... airline people.
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Air NZ Frequent Flyer Scheme Keeps Getting Worse!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:20 pm

Quoting 1des1 (Reply 46):
Back in the 1990's my family and I actually used to get free trips ANYWHERE on AN New Zealand, because my father's business put a considerable amount of tours through AN we could get free trips whenever wherever in New Zealand including free membership of the Goldern Wing Club - Now those were the best days of domestic flying! Of course look where AN New Zealand ended up...

If your are putting tours through NZ then you would normally get some kind of industry privileges on NZ.

Quoting 1des1 (Reply 46):
NZ is though in my opinion the easiest to get rewards flights on - the hard part is earning the points! But even on a programme like Qantas which I also belong, it is easy to claim a rewards booking if you do it early enough - my parents managed to get a reward booking on Qantas Club Points to Fiji in June (Peak Season) this year because they booked about 9 months in advance - of course not everyone has the luxury of being able to book that far in advance.

Let's go back to my 74/1 calculation. AKLSYDAKL used to be 30,000 points which equals $405.00 APD. Looking back prior to the fuel surcharge going into the fare AKL SYD used to be $199.00 as the lowest long term fare. Specials could be as low as $119 but often $129. So looking at this you are better off correct?

Now a few things
1/ Our lowest year round fare is now $279.00 (not including specials) So this does not work but if it was the point system it might now be 40,000 points!!!
2/ Yes not all flights have these fares but does anyone want to remember how hard it was to get airpoint seats before the change??? if you have forgotten call Qantas at least we have a option if these seats are gone, yes it will cost more but those with points can still use them.
3/ The old saying if I travel to LHR and back I used to get a free ticket over the tasman and back, now you would get 210 in discount Y 260 in a higher fare class. Now this does not settle well with most but a lot of people used to join travel to london get a trip over the tasman and never fly again. Times are tougher so the days of this is gone but you still get very close, stay loyal and on your second trip you will get one! Don't see the problem with that do you? after all it is about being loyal!!

Also another major for APD, how many airlines can you be a no one and get to use yours points for sometimes a confirmed upgrade???
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