BoomBoom
Topic Author
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SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:03 pm

Quote:
Singapore Airlines is unhappy with the latest delay in the delivery of the superjumbo Airbus 380 and may seek compensation, a spokesman said Wednesday.

We are not happy about this but we are committed to working with Airbus to minimize the consequences of the delay," said a Singapore Airlines spokesman.

Only nine of the aircraft, which seat 555 people in a three-class configuration, will be delivered to customers in 2007 compared with the earlier Airbus projection of 20 to 25.

SQ will still receive its first A380 this year, although the delivery could be delayed by a few weeks, he said.

Singapore Airlines has ordered 10 of the superjumbos and taken an option to purchase a further 15.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...613-716369.html

I thought it was a given that they would seek compensation.

What are the chances those options will be exercised?

[Edited 2006-06-14 06:32:06]
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
NAV20
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RE: SQ"Not Happy" About Second Airbus A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:10 pm

Hmmm...'not happy' looks like a very careful choice of phrasing.

I'd love to be a journalist able to phone Qantas and ask them for a comment from their viewpoint. I'd bet ten (Australian) bucks that the first (off-the-record) part would be, "Too XXXXXXX right we're not XXXXXXX happy!"
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Newark777
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About Second Airbus A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:14 pm

Well, do you blame them?

Harry
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leelaw
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About Second Airbus A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:18 pm

I'm sure the "Hatchet" men from Changi are already gleefully at work in their woodshed, carefully honing the camber of the cane(s) that will be taken into the next meeting with Humbert and Leahy. Big grin
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BoomBoom
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About Second Airbus A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:31 pm

And this is news to me:

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
SQ will still receive its first A380 this year, although the delivery could be delayed by a few weeks, he said.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:24 pm

So much for one in November and one in December.

GRR!
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PlaneHunter
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:46 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
What are the chances those options will be exercised?

That still depends on the actual performance figures, I guess.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
SQ will still receive its first A380 this year, although the delivery could be delayed by a few weeks

Hopefully by a few it does not mean 5 weeks, which is 2007 to me..

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
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alaskaqantas
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:03 pm

I wonder why they are mad? sarcastic 
take a few A380's and dash over to see what the 747-8 has in store!
as long as they still get to fly one this year, as they have been advertising, or else that would be FALSE ADVERTISING... not a good thing Wink but I hope Airbus can get its A into G an get to work... can't wait for the 380 or the 747-8
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.
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Zkpilot
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Hmmm...'not happy' looks like a very careful choice of phrasing.

I'd love to be a journalist able to phone Qantas and ask them for a comment from their viewpoint. I'd bet ten (Australian) bucks that the first (off-the-record) part would be, "Too XXXXXXX right we're not XXXXXXX happy!"

or of course "A380 where the bloody hell are ya?"  Wink
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
flyjetstar
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:09 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 9):
or of course "A380 where the bloody hell are ya?"

Fantastic call!  Big grin
 
Toulouse
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:22 pm

Well wow Boom Boom, what else would you expect. Obviously they're unhappy.
But you know when I see these delays, be it Airbus, Boeing or whoever, I say "what the heck?". I understand from a business point of view that delivering your product ontime is important, in my profession, timely delivery is essential, but thankfully my products aren't exactly the type of product that could put people's lives in danger if rushed. Maybe naive on my part, but as a passenger, I only feel pride in Airbus for not surcombing to market pressuring and ensuring that their product is 100% ready for EIS, despite any "stupid" negative feedback this may cause. Would you prefer to see an aircraft manufacturer rushing their product to keep some businessmen happy, and then everyone regretting it later when something goes wrong as it was rushed?
Bad management many of you may say? Not a fan of Forgeard ex-Airbus CEO, but it must be recognised that during his time Airbus became number 1 manufacturer in the world, and the company today is still turning around massive profits. Overly optimistic marketing? Possible. Airbus marketing has always been aggressive, even tothe point that it often causes disagreement within engineering, design, operation departments in Airbus, but didn't Boeing only recently realise they'd need to implement some more aggressive marketing... and it's certainly working in their favour, and I'm delighted for them. We're already hearing about delays on the 787,a nd I'm quite sure more will follow, and I guarantee you anti-Airbus posters that you will never see me posting derogatory posts against Boeing when/if they delay the 787, as my above opinion will be the same for Boeing as for Airbus.
Oh I'm sure the likes of Boom Boom, NAV20 and co will just say I'm naïve, don't know what I'm talking about, what a load of rubbish I'm saying, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking with it. I also guarantee you that I know a lot of inside information, as my profession does give me many opportunities to deal with Airbus and their customers, and "usually" I only hear praise from their customers.
Anyway, another delay, I admit "Damn" was my first thought, but as I've said, in the end of the day I much prefer thinking Airbus are delaying things to do them properly instead of rushing the job. There's to much at stake in manufacturing a/c.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Vorticity
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:30 pm

Unhappy? I'm shocked

Anyway, it is not shocking to see delays in undertakings of this magnitude. Designing and building an airplane, especially one of this size is an unbelievable undertaking.

In the '90s Boeing took a big hit when they ran into production line issues while trying to boost production rate. The production lines had to be shut down, and obviously there were financial consequences.

I'm more interested now what it'll be like to provide services and support for a fleet of so few airplanes.
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NAV20
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:33 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
Oh I'm sure the likes of Boom Boom, NAV20 and co will just say I'm naïve, don't know what I'm talking about

Fair go, Toulouse - I've never posted in that vein, nor will I ever. But as to this, I suggest that you look at EADS' latest Press Release:-

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
the company today is still turning around massive profits.

The release says, among other things:-

"From 2007 to 2010, EADS anticipates annual shortfalls of EBIT* contribution from the A380 programme of about € 500 million relative to the original baseline plan. The shortfalls result from the shift of margin to later years, excess costs tied to the recovery action and the late delivery charges which are to be negotiated with customers. Possible contract terminations under the new timetable have not been taken into account in this estimate.

"EADS expects free cash flow shortfalls, relative to the original baseline plan, of less than € 300 million in 2006, increasing to more than € 1 billion in 2008, and decreasing sharply thereafter."


From memory, EADS' annual profit last year wasn't much more than E1.0B. after interest and tax.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:39 pm

I wonder if this is a bid to lower British Aerospace's share price during the sale process ?

Airbus isnt happy at the BAe demanded price.
some 500mn euro costs for 3 years will certainly do it to the shareprice.

However if after a reduced price sale those issues strangely resolved themselves.. the share price will rise again and there is no longer a problem.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
jacobin777
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:44 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 14):
I wonder if this is a bid to lower British Aerospace's share price during the sale process ?

this certainly isn't helping....


fair use excerpt:

"Shares of European defense company and Airbus parent EADS fell 18% on Wednesday after the European plane manufacturer said its production program for the A380 superjumbo is being slowed down"

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...eid=38882%2E1451563889%2D877916650


hopefully the stock will recover.......but I think shareholders in EADS need to have the management of this company re-evaluated..

I certainly think Gustav Humbert will do a good job at Airbus though...

[Edited 2006-06-14 09:46:19]
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:13 pm

LOL BoomBoom yet again the bringer of (no) news.

Talk about stating the blindingly obvious.

Look at the A346 and MD11 issues on EIS, obviously the latter's being much more serious - in the end both affected their respective OEM's reputation, and given what a strong Boeing competition has brought to market, it doesnt take an idiot to figure out that Airbus needs to get this one right, very right, first time. Not getting it right and putting a plane with big issues into service before it is really mature enough to do so is far more damaging than any delay to EIS could ever be. SQ, VS, EK, and QF are all big fish, and alienating them by giving them massive EIS issues will play right into the hands of the 748I.

Its vital that the A380 needs to be spot on, right right from the off. The delays are regrettable, but you can compensate airlines for delays, but its much more difficult to compensate them for giving them planes riddled with bugs and gremlins.

No, im not making the best of a bad situation, and yes Airbus's stock will suffer because of this, but its a necessary evil. Get this one wrong and the consequences will be disastrous. Get it right, and airlines that are sitting on the fence, like CX, BA, SA and the rest will have to sit up and take notice.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
Carpethead
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:30 pm

Because EIS of the A388 will be delayed and production slots for the existing orders will have to be pushed back some, a new order for the 748 or A388 may not have much difference in the time of delivery.

Well, it doesn't take a genius to figure out SQ is not happy. Let the penalty payments from Airbus to SQ and other airlines flow.
 
jacobin777
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:32 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 19):

I hope your reactions about the expected 7-Late-7 delay will be equal...

Have any proof of the "expected 7-late-7"?

I'd be happy if you can provide some links..

 Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 19):
I hope your reactions about the expected 7-Late-7 delay will be equal...

I though this is about A380, and Airbus's screw up. If you want you can start a thread about the alleged delay on 787.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
keesje
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:32 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Hmmm...'not happy' looks like a very careful choice of phrasing.

I'd love to be a journalist able to phone Qantas and ask them for a comment from their viewpoint. I'd bet ten (Australian) bucks that the first (off-the-record) part would be, "Too XXXXXXX right we're not XXXXXXX happy!"

If I'm not mistaken airline reactions are a lot more moderate then the folks here on a.net. They must be real dissapointed & are starting to make up there own "imagine" "I bet" customer reactions & commenting on those

desperate IMO

 Wink
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
halls120
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 33):
Yeah I'm an Airbus fan. Love their planes, prefer flying on them to Boeing a/c,

The above is a statement I just don't understand. I've been flying since 1971. I've flown Airbus, ATR's, Bombardier, Boeing, Douglas, Embraer, Grumman, Lockheed and MD aircraft. I've probably missed a few, in fact. What I've found over the past 35 years is that how an AIRLINE configures its aircraft and provides service is far more important to my comfort and satisfaction than who happened to build the damn airplane. As long as the tube I'm sitting in gets me to my destination in one piece, I could care less who builds it.

Case in point. Given the choice of flying in a UA A320 with EP seating or a US A320, I'll pick the UA A320 every time. And don't get me started on how miserably uncomfortable Lufthansa A320's are.

I know the majority of Anetters will keep the A v B fires burning brightly. It's probably the only reason some of them post, I suspect.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
B707Stu
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:59 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 26):
It is not coming from me.I only read it in several german newspapers and aicraft magazines.So do not call ME childish...

German newspapers, I wonder if they have any interest in a German-owned company trying to move the topic off of Airbus's current difficulties?

I'm both an Airbus and Boeing fan. Big A320 fan and Big 777 fan, though my name obviously refers to my childhood airplane, I'm pro Airbus and also enjoy the A340. I say this to identify myself as a moderate, in the middle type guy. Having said that it does appear that Airbus is having, at the minimum, public relations issues and of course some financial ramifications to these delays. I'm sure in the long run things will work out for the A380 program but with all the press Airbus brought to the aircraft beforehand it certainly doesn't look good, at the minimum, that it's having so many delays.

Couple that with the A350 do-over and it's no wonder the very Pro Boeing crowd here are taking advantage of the current times. I'm hoping and believe the A380 will end up successful and that Airbus will answer the 787 with something more competitive. Having said that, from a novice's perscpective, it doesn't appear they're doing a very good job at the moment.
 
b777a340fan
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
Well wow Boom Boom, what else would you expect. Obviously they're unhappy.
But you know when I see these delays, be it Airbus, Boeing or whoever, I say "what the heck?". I understand from a business point of view that delivering your product ontime is important, in my profession, timely delivery is essential, but thankfully my products aren't exactly the type of product that could put people's lives in danger if rushed. Maybe naive on my part, but as a passenger, I only feel pride in Airbus for not surcombing to market pressuring and ensuring that their product is 100% ready for EIS, despite any "stupid" negative feedback this may cause. Would you prefer to see an aircraft manufacturer rushing their product to keep some businessmen happy, and then everyone regretting it later when something goes wrong as it was rushed?

I couldn't agree with you more. I think security/mechanical/last minute/unpredicted issues ought to be taken care of immediately before the bird enters service, having any recalls after it starts carrying passengers would be a bad move on their part. Like Toulouse said, we're not talking about a bicycle here, we're talking about a 610,000+ lbs. mega-plane that carries the lives of numerous passengers. No error can be made in this instance.

The whole A vs. B debate has loooooooong be dragged out and overdone. It's like a bunch of petty catfights that never end. I consider myself a true liberalist vis a vis this topic, I recognize that both Boeing and Airbus have brought recognizable traits and advancements to this industry that brought us on this forum at the first place. But the constant bashing, the "Airbus delays Thread No. 1xxxx" is getting old. Give the manufacturer a break! When was the last time you built/tested a 600,000 lbs. double-decker? I bet Airbus fans are anxiously waiting the day when Airbus takes the lead again...it's like the cycle of life, but one thing that is 110% certain: Neither Airbus or Boeing will EVER be left standing alone.
 
elvis777
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:58 pm

Howdy all,

I am a bit perplexed by the vociferous whining that is coming from certain A.net members concerning any bad news that affects eads. To be honest I am more than puzzled!

Boom boom posted a link to a news article. The news article was not so kind to eads. Then he asked a legitimate question and now you guys (you know who you are) are crying airbus bashing while at the same time proffessing that you love aviation. Stop it. This is news about an aircraft manufacturer. We do discuss those things here. So if you dont like to hear that your favorite aircraft manufacturer screwed up and his customers are unhappy (be it the first time posted or the 1001 time) dont read it! If you only care for 'nice' eads news then either post them yourselves or perhaps join (form) an "I love eads' website.

I , and probably others as well, are interested in any news that affects any aircraft manufacturer. I try to be as informed as possible and so try to read various newspapers and journals. But one I dont get is wsj. So if this is not posted I would not be able to read it. get it? I am amazed that this is such a difficult subject to understand.

Tell you what, why dont you post articles such as this and beat him (and others) to the punch. That way you can spin it any way you like.

Would that be alright and then pass your eads loving test?

Elvis777
Leper,Unevolved, Misplaced and Unrepentant SportsFanatic and a ZOMBIE as well
 
Toulouse
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 34):
know a lot of people say that better safe than sorry, but in real world this thing costs the company money

And when a product fails because it was rushed to keep some business executives happy, is that not the real world? And if that product just happens to be a product that could be fatal to human lives, and it fails because the manufacturer rushed the job, is that not the real world? What would the real world scenario be then? I know business all too well, and while I agree with you to a certain extent, I favour precaution in such cases as this one at hand?

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 34):
But, somehow Leahy's and Foregeard's Boeing bashing left a bad taste in my mouth.

Oh, forget about them my friend! And I mean that with all respect to you.
.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 35):

Brilliant post!

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 36):
One thing led to another, Toulouse. I heard that my State Government here was spending $A50M. on getting Melbourne Airport ready for an aeroplane that hadn't flown yet, looked up some facts, and smelt bullshit.

Then I made a few (perfectly polite) posts on here about possible weight problems, delays, inadequate performance etc., and got roundly flamed for my trouble. Since then I suppose that I've never looked back.

And what's wrong with you state government upgrading your airport. Happening in many other places, it's called "progress". And hasn't the same happened many times in the past? The situation was very similar in the run-up to the introduction of the 747.

Still NAV20, and with all respect, why be anti-Airbus because your state government has decided to invest in its airport and because of some silly a.netters who flamed you? That's not Airbus' fault!

BTW, thanks for the response.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 38):
The above is a statement I just don't understand.



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 38):
What I've found over the past 35 years is that how an AIRLINE configures its aircraft and provides service is far more important to my comfort and satisfaction than who happened to build the damn airplane

It's simple Halls120, we're two different people with different tastes. As simple as that. And I know it's the airlines that configure their interiors. I mainly fly short-haul today, and must say that out of all the airlines I fly I nearly always seem to end up on a member of the 320 family. I like the 320's, I find them smoother, wider, brighter, quieter than the 737's. Like yourself, albeit I started flying a few years after you (not many though), I've flown on 707's, 727's (sooo many times), 737's (many times also), 747, 757's (quite frequently), 767's, A320's, A321's, A319's (still have to ride a 318), A330, A300, A310, BAE-146, Avro RJ100's, Mercurars, Caravelles, Tridents, MD-80's, DC-9's, BAC 1-11's, Emb 135 and 145, CRJ 200 and 700 and even had the opportunity to fly on Concorde. Now, while I wasn't a huge fan of the A300 or A310, of the modern Airbus a/c, I just prefer flying them to Boeing a/c. But that doesn't mean I won't fly on a Boeing or don't enjoy flying on one. And I have many fond memories of the 727 in particular.

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 40):
I couldn't agree with you more. I think security/mechanical/last minute/unpredicted issues ought to be taken care of immediately before the bird enters service, having any recalls after it starts carrying passengers would be a bad move on their part. Like Toulouse said, we're not talking about a bicycle here, we're talking about a 610,000+ lbs. mega-plane that carries the lives of numerous passengers. No error can be made in this instance.

The whole A vs. B debate has loooooooong be dragged out and overdone. It's like a bunch of petty catfights that never end. I consider myself a true liberalist vis a vis this topic, I recognize that both Boeing and Airbus have brought recognizable traits and advancements to this industry that brought us on this forum at the first place. But the constant bashing, the "Airbus delays Thread No. 1xxxx" is getting old. Give the manufacturer a break! When was the last time you built/tested a 600,000 lbs. double-decker? I bet Airbus fans are anxiously waiting the day when Airbus takes the lead again...it's like the cycle of life, but one thing that is 110% certain: Neither Airbus or Boeing will EVER be left standing alone.

Glad to see I'm not alone B777A340Fan
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
halls120
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 42):
It's simple Halls120, we're two different people with different tastes. As simple as that. And I know it's the airlines that configure their interiors. I mainly fly short-haul today, and must say that out of all the airlines I fly I nearly always seem to end up on a member of the 320 family. I like the 320's, I find them smoother, wider, brighter, quieter than the 737's.

I understand perfectly people have different tastes.

Let's look at automobiles, for example. Both Honda and Toyota make excellent automobiles, but they design them according to what they perceive are their customers preferences. I happen to prefer Honda and Acura products over Toyota and Lexus products. Doesn't mean I'm right and the guy who buys a Lexus is wrong. And while I prefer my Acura TL over the Lexus offering, I don't get on automobile enthusiast message boards and bash Lexus.

It's the childish Airbus and Boeing bashing I don't understand.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
piercey
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 43):



Hi all
i have followed airliners since 3 years and i think its sad that Airliners isnt a place wich we cant talk like educated ppl with constructive posts.
I like Planes from A&B and i often thaught if its worth to join Airliners.
And sure Airbus is in trouble but Boeing was that to some time ago. Things can change very fast. I would wish this Forum would be more even so it would be worth to read all posts.

Regards

and just think, you just paid $25 to join in the fun!  biggrin 

Either way, this is a no sh!t topic. SQ and co. are ticked because this is a major delay and now has to make schedule changes. Airbus will pay the penalty premiums and we'll all move on.

Oh, and about who's better, When it's B vs. A, E always wins - Embrear-Empresa Brasileira de Aeronáutica S.A.  biggrin 
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
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autothrust
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:29 pm

Thanks a lot Toulouse for your warm welcome  Smile i hope i will be able to reach the standard "sometimes" Airliners.net has and have some great discussion Big grin and btw sorry for my english i still have to improove it  idea 
“Faliure is not an option.”
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 42):
And when a product fails because it was rushed to keep some business executives happy, is that not the real world? And if that product just happens to be a product that could be fatal to human lives, and it fails because the manufacturer rushed the job, is that not the real world? What would the real world scenario be then? I know business all too well, and while I agree with you to a certain extent, I favour precaution in such cases as this one at hand?

Sorry, but the argument you're making does not hold water in the case being discussed.

Airplane Safety is assured by meeting the EASA/FAA Certification requirements. Airbus has not said the A380 Certification date is changing. At least one A380 delivery to SQ will still occur before the end of 2006.

Therefore, Safety cannot be the reason for the delays in 2007. These delays can only be due to an inability to manufacture a certified airplane to a given customer specification.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
NAV20
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RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 42):
And what's wrong with you state government upgrading your airport. Happening in many other places, it's called "progress". And hasn't the same happened many times in the past? The situation was very similar in the run-up to the introduction of the 747.

Still NAV20, and with all respect, why be anti-Airbus because your state government has decided to invest in its airport and because of some silly a.netters who flamed you? That's not Airbus' fault!

BTW, thanks for the response.

Cheers, Toulouse. As a matter of fact, it WAS Airbus' fault. The airport managers took the ridiculous 800-passenger hype at face value, and planned for extra terminal space and car parking accordingly. And watching that phoney 'reveal' ceremony, they apparently got the impression that the thing was going to arrive within a month or two, so they put the work in hand (on an 'urgent', and therefore costly, basis) even before the first flight. And there aren't that many taxpayers in Victoria, a measurable amount of MY money got wasted!

Of course, it went further than that, though. The more I looked into Airbus (the A380 shambles, and later the A350 fiasco) the more I discerned signs of rank bad management. And that's going to cost me as well by way of higher fares; the fact that Boeing currently appear to be raising their prices has to be a direct result of the virtual monopoly handed to them on a plate by the stumblebums running Airbus. And I'm not without sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of people who depend on them for jobs, either.

I hate waste of any kind; so I guess I just got angry, and stayed angry.

Article here that suggests that prospects may not get much better in the short-term. In the first place, it looks as if Forgeard (asked if his job was in danger) plans to stay put:-

"It's a shareholders' decision,'' he said. "The board of directors has to appreciate the situation, and from what I understand it will more aim at finding the right ways forward than at finger-pointing any responsibilities of the past.''

Big deal - he knows better than anyone, of course, that the shareholder who matters most is his long-time patron, President Chirac.

Secondly, there's a strong indication that actual A380 cancellations may well be in the wind:-

"Forgeard, who ran Airbus from 1998 until last year, also said that 'some' of the A380 customers have clauses in their purchase contracts that would allow them to cancel their orders if the aircraft were more than a year late."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...=a8Q.G4KcZLbo&refer=top_world_news
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
Secondly, there's a strong indication that actual A380 cancellations may well be in the wind:-

Read an article today about MAS reviewing their options. Could they be the first?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
NLINK
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:43 am

I would love to see SQ cancel there 380 order.
 
vinniewinnie
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:23 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 51):
sure VinnieWinnie, but you should have seen these boards a few years ago when Boeing was fumbling and bumbling everywhere and Airbus could do no wrong....it was basically 180 degrees from what we are seeing now...

I totally agree with you that a few years ago the only thing you could hear on television about the aviation sector was how well Airbus was doing! They went too far that's for sure.

But by bragging about how well Boeing is doing nowadays some Boeing fans are basically lowering themselves to the same poor standards!

I truly acknowledge that Airbus has a major problem and that it needs to sort itself out pretty quickly! But if I were a Boeing fan I would never scream "die Airbus die" which is what some members seem to be doing! If you saw someone drowning would you laugh? Well I wouldn't! (Extreme example not directed at you at all!)

Cheers Vincent
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 651
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 41):
Boom boom posted a link to a news article. The news article was not so kind to eads. Then he asked a legitimate question and now you guys (you know who you are) are crying airbus bashing while at the same time proffessing that you love aviation. Stop it. This is news about an aircraft manufacturer. We do discuss those things here. So if you dont like to hear that your favorite aircraft manufacturer screwed up and his customers are unhappy (be it the first time posted or the 1001 time) dont read it! If you only care for 'nice' eads news then either post them yourselves or perhaps join (form) an "I love eads' website.

What I think you don't realize is that people aren't in to see Boeing go down the tubes and by no extent do people consider Airbus to be faultless. Some people, I'm not saying all, equate Airbus to a corrupted, lying, deceiving corporation that deserves no respect; and that's not fair. The constant bashing/criticism encircling the same topic is enerving. I do believe the original question was valid....but most everyone took it as another opportunity to start an A vs. B battle. By the way, I don't think the original question was answered.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 52):
Therefore, Safety cannot be the reason for the delays in 2007. These delays can only be due to an inability to manufacture a certified airplane to a given customer specification.

You sort of contradicted yourself there. Safety has everything to do with the delay. For example, you have a base model that is certified and ready to go, but per your customer's own customizations, it does not necessarily mean that it's also certified and ready to go. Extra configurations, re-arrangements, etc. demand extra effort to ensure that those are also secure/certified. Whatever changes you request are going to affect security issues whether directly or indirectly.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting VinnieWinnie (Reply 61):

But by bragging about how well Boeing is doing nowadays some Boeing fans are basically lowering themselves to the same poor standards!

I agree VinnieWinnie, but I'm not to be the judge of that.....though I'm a solid Boeing fan, I still love Airbus planes (much to the disappointment of a few A.net members here)....

To be honest, I don't think most of the so-called "Boeing fans" are trying to kick a wounded animal, but trying to point the view that......

1) the A380 was a wrong business decision
2) EADS/Airbus management need to get their head out of their bums and some need to be fired...
"Up the Irons!"
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 45):
It's the childish Airbus and Boeing bashing I don't understand.

That I am 110% with you on. And if you look at my posts you will see that all I'm doing is deploring this type of bashing. I supposed I should just refrain from doing so as it seems to be like adding fuel to the fire (just some time I get a bit p***** off reading all the A v B stuff here and write when maybe I shouldn't).

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 51):
I honestly find your direct attack on a member because of his views (regardless as to how biased they are) bit lame...

What are you talking about Jacobin777. I made no direct attack and I think the member in question, seeing his response, saw that nothing bad was meant!

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 54):
And your whining is getting boring...

Preferible to your continual posting of bad news from Airbus. Where were you a year or two back when all the bad news was coming from the Boeing end?

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
The airport managers took the ridiculous 800-passenger hype at face value, and planned for extra terminal space and car parking accordingly. And watching that phoney 'reveal' ceremony, they apparently got the impression that the thing was going to arrive within a month or two, so they put the work in hand (on an 'urgent', and therefore costly, basis) even before the first flight.

Ohh, I thought the "reveal" ceremony was ok, a bit over the top, but hey, it is the biggest pax a/c ever. Anyway, I think it is the lack of insight/information of your state government that is at fault and not Airbus.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
And there aren't that many taxpayers in Victoria, a measurable amount of MY money got wasted!

That I do feel for you on. I'm sure lots of my tax money has gone on building the bloody roads around here to transport the 380, but hey, actually that's not too bad, now I have better roads.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
more I discerned signs of rank bad management.

That I do agree with you on and many in Airbus would also. Yet, while that Forgeard was at the head of things Airbus got itself into a prominent position, nevertheless, I do agree with you to a certain extent.

Anyway NAV20, again thanks for taking the time to explain. While I may or may not agree with you, at least you have your reasons and opinions, and for that I respect you.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
Secondly, there's a strong indication that actual A380 cancellations may well be in the wind:-

True, and I hope it doesn't happen, just as I'd hate to see cancellations for the 787. Anyway, if all goes well, we've got many years ahead of us and Airbus and Boeing will continue to pull in many more orders.

Quoting NLINK (Reply 59):
I would love to see SQ cancel there 380 order.

Why? That seems like a very silly (not to say something stronger) thing to say on the front, so I'm sure we'd all love to know your reasons.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
legoguy
Posts: 2970
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:59 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 63):
I agree VinnieWinnie, but I'm not to be the judge of that.....though I'm a solid Boeing fan, I still love Airbus planes (much to the disappointment of a few A.net members here)....

 checkmark  to an extent. I guess I consider myself an Airbus fan as I live in the UK however I love Boeing just as much!

Both Boeing and Airbus are great aircraft manufacturers and all the arguments are kind of down grading. Obviously Boeing are in a great position however hopefully Airbus will bounce back. The world would be a crapper place with just one aircraft manufacturer

Dave
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:26 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 26):
7-Late-7 is the unofficial version of the B787-projectname used by several Boeing engineers...

Can you provide any links?

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 39):
German newspapers, I wonder if they have any interest in a German-owned company trying to move the topic off of Airbus's current difficulties?

Serious papers certainly haven't, serious journalists certainly haven't. So better forget the idea that Airbus buys the independent press. I have followed the news on both A and B in the German press well and I can tell you I haven't discovered any bias.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
Secondly, there's a strong indication that actual A380 cancellations may well be in the wind:-

Just because airlines have the option doesn't mean cancellations "may well be in the wind". I'd still like to see that "strong indication".

Quoting NLINK (Reply 59):
I would love to see SQ cancel there 380 order.

Please elaborate - have you bet your house against it?


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
OldAeroGuy
Posts: 3185
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:50 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 62):
Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 52):
Therefore, Safety cannot be the reason for the delays in 2007. These delays can only be due to an inability to manufacture a certified airplane to a given customer specification.

You sort of contradicted yourself there. Safety has everything to do with the delay. For example, you have a base model that is certified and ready to go, but per your customer's own customizations, it does not necessarily mean that it's also certified and ready to go.

No contradiction really. If the airplane is certified and its certification basis is established, then the inability to deliver it stems from not being able to actually build a certified configuration. It's a manufacturing issue rather than a safety issue.

Toulouse's premise is that Airbus is taking extra time to make sure the A380 is safe. In actual fact, since the A380 is still certifying in October '06, they know what constitutes a safe product. The delivery delay comes from not being able to build and deliver an A380 with a customer airline specified interior that also meets the certification requirements.

Side issues may also be related to making sure the airplane meets the customers expectations. Properly functioning IFE is not necessarily related to Safety, but it can have a big impact on an airline's satisfaction with the airplane.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 65):
What are you talking about Jacobin777. I made no direct attack and I think the member in question, seeing his response, saw that nothing bad was meant!

mea culpa :..I "quoted" the wrong person..I meant the other poster (the one you happen to agree with)...
"Up the Irons!"
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 57):
Read an article today about MAS reviewing their options. Could they be the first?

Considering their financial difficultys at the moment, this might indeed be the right moment to do so.

However, is the delivery schedule to Malaysian indeed affected? When were they supposed to take delivery of their A380's? Secondly, with TG and SQ both having the A380 on order, MH might want to stick to their order.

I also recall Tony Tyler of CX putting forward the idea of picking up A380 slots from airlines that might cancell, if CX decides on ordering the A380.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
airmailer
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:28 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 29):
Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 27):
Quoting Johnny (Reply 26):


Another blatant attempt to hijack the thread?

Nope this is an Airbus bashing thread only. Lets keep it on topic please.

Well at least you came right out and said it.

 rotfl 
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 76):
NAV20 has foreseen Airbus's dilemma for quite some time now !!!

Well, the A380 has successfully flown, not a single cancellation has been announced yet, the whole program is still well alive and Airbus hasn't gone out of business yet. So I'm not sure...

Quoting Halibut (Reply 76):
The recent SQ order for Boeing's 787 provides even more vindication for NAV20 .

No. That mid-market order was widely expected for a long time. It's not a replacement order.


PH

[Edited 2006-06-14 19:08:09]
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 69):
Toulouse's premise is that Airbus is taking extra time to make sure the A380 is safe. In

No it's not. Look, I see the 380 overflying my garden very low numerous times a day, and I don't rush and duck. I know it's safe. But still, it's a massive project, and if the manufacturer, in this case Airbus, needs more time to roll out what they deem a quality product and what is a massive project bound to ahve lots of little snags, well, let them do that I say.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 70):
This story was on the front page of the WSJ. I published a summary and a link to it. That's all.

True.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 70):
If you see that as "bashing" you need to develop a thicker skin.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, life has made my skin quite thick thank you.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 70):
There's nothing in the rules that says you can't start threads unfavorable to Airbus or that you have to balance your views.

No there isn't, but you do seem to frequently be the poster of threads with bad news about Airbus, and which unfortunately here on a.net, is bait for an A v B battle. And you should know that. And it's a pity, as you should be able to post these articles, and they should be discussed in a civilised manner. And by the way, I believe a.net does not endorse A v B battles.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 71):
mea culpa :..I "quoted" the wrong person..I meant the other poster (the one you happen to agree with)...

No problems.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 76):
I disagree with that Toulouse ,

Why Halibut. Maybe if you read further on you would see I asked NAV20 a simple question which he took at face value, and responded to. Nothing to disagree with. NAV20 himself gave me his reasons in response to what you're disagreeing with. Just to let you know!
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Toulouse
Posts: 2193
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 78):
Well, the A380 has successfully flown, not a single cancellation has been announced yet, the whole program is still well alive and Airbus hasn't gone out of business yet. So I'm not sure...

And that I full heartedly agree with!
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
787engineer
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:08 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 62):
Some people, I'm not saying all, equate Airbus to a corrupted, lying, deceiving corporation that deserves no respect; and that's not fair. The constant bashing/criticism encircling the same topic is enerving. I do believe the original question was valid....but most everyone took it as another opportunity to start an A vs. B battle.

I agree with most people here that BoomBoom posts a lot if not too many negative Airbus threads, however the majority of them I would not consider bashing. SQ has voiced their displeasure with the new A380 delay; I say that's to be expected, and it's nice to see SQ being vocal and putting pressure on Airbus to straighten out their mistakes quickly. The only bashing begins is when a few pro-A members start complaining that there's too much A-bashing on A.net. If you would just keep quiet the thread would die off quickly, but instead you're complaints (whining as some have called it) has blown this into an A v. B war.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 26):
7-Late-7 is the unofficial version of the B787-projectname used by several Boeing engineers...



Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 67):
Quoting Johnny (Reply 26):
7-Late-7 is the unofficial version of the B787-projectname used by several Boeing engineers...

Can you provide any links?

There was one article a while back that mentioned this "7-late-7" reference, and it is my opinion and the opinion of many members here (along with many B employees) that it was simply a bit of senstionalism by the author. I work in integration on the 787 so I get to talk to a lot of engineers in various groups and I have NEVER heard the 787 referred to as the "7-late-7". It showed up in an article now all the A cheerleaders have picked up on it and state it as fact. Despite surprises here and there (along with some good surprises too), the 787 is still on track for EIS.

[Edited 2006-06-14 19:25:19]
 
legoguy
Posts: 2970
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:59 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 84):

And who are the first one to turn it into an A v B battle? It's the Airbus lovers.

That seems to be a deliberate strategy of you Airbus guys. You turn things into a slug fest and then complain to the moderators that the thread should be locked or deleted because it turned into slug fest.

No offense ment here, but recently I have noticed that you seem to be starting most of the 'Airbus has problems' threads. I have no problem with this but maybe you start a thread on airbus problems a little too often,

Just my 2 cents,

Dave
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
BoomBoom
Topic Author
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 85):
I have no problem with this but maybe you start a thread on airbus problems a little too often.

That's because they have problems so often...

I don't make the news up--I just link to it.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
astuteman
Posts: 6340
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: SQ "Not Happy" About 2nd A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 55):
Secondly, there's a strong indication that actual A380 cancellations may well be in the wind:-

"Forgeard, who ran Airbus from 1998 until last year, also said that 'some' of the A380 customers have clauses in their purchase contracts that would allow them to cancel their orders if the aircraft were more than a year late."

If that's truly the case, then it should provide a good barometer of the current market acceptability of the A380 (for those airlines that have orders anyway).

Regards

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