n1786b
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SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:38 pm

Singapore Air says to buy 20 Boeings for $4.5 bln
Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:29am ET

SINGAPORE, June 14 (Reuters) - Singapore Airlines Ltd. the world's No. 2 airline by market value, said on Wednesday it would buy 20 Boeing 787-9 planes, and has rights to purchase another 20.

The carrier said the list price for the 20 firm orders was US$4.52 billion.



- n1786b
 
PolymerPlane
Posts: 832
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:41 pm

Do you have link to the story? I do not doubt you, but just making sure, so I do not write something prematurely  Wink

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:41 pm

LOL Airbus's bad week gets worse...

Seriously though - congrats to all involved if this is true, though hardly an earth-shattering surprise.

[Edited 2006-06-14 11:42:22]
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
keesje
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:42 pm

That a good one. Congratulations to Boeing!

I bet they will use them mainly intra asia.

The A310s being replaced by B777's probably wasn't sustainable.

What I don't understand is the price : $4.5bill / 20 seems more like a 747/ 777-300ER..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:43 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
What I don't understand is the price : $4.5bill / 20 seems more like a 747/ 777-300ER..

I was going to say - seems a little steep...
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
UALMMFlyer
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:43 pm

Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:45 pm

Nice, Great boost for 787 program... Polymer Plane Rulez Big grin

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:45 pm

What kind of order is that?!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
leelaw
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:49 pm

The Star Alliance carrier says in a mobile phone text message to Flight that the formal announcement is currently being prepared. The deal will comprise 20 firm orders for 787-9s and purchase rights for 20 more, the short message service (SMS) continues.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...latest+blow+to+Airbus's+A350.html
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
RichardPrice
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:52 pm

Well, I guess that settles that - not too surprising after the A380 fiasco!

However, 20 aircraft for $4.52billion gives $226million an airframe (with other threads citing sources as the list price of the 787 being $50m to $70m cheaper than that), so either thats a premium for some reason over other airlines orders or each airframe has $50million of support attached somehow which seems a lot.

Anyone explain?
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:57 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):

Maybe including options? seems to be very vague.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
WINGS
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:59 pm

In first place I would like to congratulate both SQ and Boeing. This is without a doubt a well fought battle.

The A350/A370 fiasco + additional A380 delays have exhausted SQ patience. Hopefully the A350/A370 will still be a contender down the line for the replacement of the B772/773.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:00 pm

Singapore Airlines has signed a Letter of Intent to purchase 20 Boeing 787-9s, with purchase rights for another 20 of the same aircraft.
At current manufacturer catalogue prices, the value of the 20 firm aircraft is US$ 4.52 billion.
Deliveries will be scheduled between early 2011 and mid 2013, and will be for fleet renewal as well as to cater for growth.
The decision to purchase the 787-9 is the culmination of an extensive evaluation of the performance characteristics and operating economics promised for the different versions of Boeing’s new 787 aircraft.
The –9 is the newest version on offer, and has the largest cabin and longest range. In a standard three-class configuration, it can carry between 250 and 290 passengers. It also has space for about 20 tonnes of cargo, and will have a range of 8,600 to 8,800 nautical miles (15,900 to 16,300 kilometres).
Singapore Airlines plans to deploy the aircraft on routes to North Asia, the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East.
Apart from its extensive use of composites and advanced technology, which will enhance operating efficiency, the 787 will enable Singapore Airlines to further its commitment to innovation and improvement in providing service, comfort and entertainment to customers.The engines to power the aircraft will be selected at a later date.
Singapore Airlines will be able to fund the acquisitions by cash flow generated from airline operations.
* * *
For further information, please contact: Public Affairs Department
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:02 pm

Considering the problems Airbus has been having with the A350 and A380, this isn't the least bit surprising. Congratulations to SIA and Boeing!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:03 pm

That's the premium airlines have to pay from Boeing since there is no competition...
Imagine a world in which sole Boeing would sell aircraft- a sheer nightmare for airlines and customers,since the price of aircraft would skyrocket and that would obviously have repercussions on ticket-price....
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:05 pm

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 12):
Deliveries will be scheduled between early 2011 and mid 2013, and will be for fleet renewal as well as to cater for growth.

Does this seem to be a bit late or it is normal from the slot availability point of view, considering it is a 787-9 not -10?

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 12):
Singapore Airlines will be able to fund the acquisitions by cash flow generated from airline operations.

They are buying it outright. Wow, they certainly have a very strong cash flow.

Since SQ is buying -9, what is the prospect of -10?

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
FWAERJ
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:05 pm

Talk about a slap in the face to Airbus for all those A380 delays.

But still, good for Boeing and SQ!
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
Talk about a slap in the face to Airbus for all those A380 delays.

The timing of the order is certainly interesting...perhaps Singapore is sending Airbus a message?
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:07 pm

Too little too late I say...



Here's hoping for a more substantial order in the weeks to come and also a second Boeing production line.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:09 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 16):
The timing of the order is certainly interesting...perhaps Singapore is sending Airbus a message?

I do not think so, If you think about it, the order should have been finalized and brought up to the board of director meeting probably earlier than the delay announcement.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
columba
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:12 pm

Great to hear I was expecting it would go to Boeing, I guess we will see the anouncement of the LH order soon. Since both airlines are Star Alliance and they worked together on their order.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:13 pm

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 19):

I do not think so, If you think about it, the order should have been finalized and brought up to the board of director meeting probably earlier than the delay announcement.

We'll see I suppose. I think the latest A380 delay may have killed Airbus' prospects of winning the B787/A350 battle.

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 18):
and also a second Boeing production line.

My money says a second B787 line is a sure bet unless Airbus really works some magic with the new A350/A370.
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 21):
My money says a second B787 line is a sure bet unless Airbus really works some magic with the new A350/A370.

I do not know the actual deal, but if SQ already settles for 2011-13 delivery dates, I don't really see the need for a second line, since it increases the project risks significantly.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
slz396
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:18 pm

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 19):
I do not think so

I don't think so either.
It would certainly be amusing to some here on a.net, but I think things don't go that way. Orders need to be seriously evaluated by boards first and when airlines have things to tell Airbus, I'd imagine they do directly via the phone (or through their lawyers if they are not on speaking terms) not by ordering planes from another manufacturer.

What is more probable is that SQ -which has been given a preview of the reworked A350 only recently- has had enough grounds to decide on the 787-9 now, without hesitating like they did in the past.

Interesting to note how the press release does not mention SQ selected the plane after comparing with the A350, but rather states:

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 12):
The decision to purchase the 787-9 is the culmination of an extensive evaluation of the performance characteristics and operating economics promised for the different versions of Boeing's new 787 aircraft.

Does that mean the A350 is indeed moving up into 777 territory and thus not set against the 787 any longer? It would make some sense (I know it is just one possibility and I have no proof or link whatsoever, I just like to puzzle a bit with the few pieces we are given)

Anyway, good to see we have CONSTRUCTIVE topics to speculate on, rather than NEGATIVE topics (787 problems, A380 delays etc etc...)

[Edited 2006-06-14 12:21:09]
 
Lumberton
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:20 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 23):
Does that mean the A350 is indeed moving up into 777 territory and thus not set against the 787 any longer?

Then would that mean that Airbus is ceding the 767/A300/A310 replacement market to Boeing withought a fight? Somehow, I don't think so....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
columba
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:22 pm

Quoting from article:

The Star Alliance carrier says in a mobile phone text message to Flight that the formal announcement is currently being prepared. The deal will comprise 20 firm orders for 787-9s and purchase rights for 20 more, the short message service (SMS) continues.

I know Flight International is a reliable source but getting their news via SMS makes me wonder somehow. Is that a common practise to inform the press that way ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:26 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 25):
I know Flight International is a reliable source but getting their news via SMS makes me wonder somehow. Is that a common practise to inform the press that way ?

SMS is a very acceptable way of communication in SE asia.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:27 pm

It wouldn't surprise me.

Flight International and Reuters got the news before the stock exchange... I think.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:29 pm

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 26):
SMS is a very acceptable way of communication in SE asia.

Surprising, because SMS is not verifiable or secure at all (you can change the source fields on sending so it can look to come from anyone you want, I could have sent this to Flight International...)
 
Glom
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:32 pm

That link is a bit vague. And the order is rather smaller than we were expecting.
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:33 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 28):

Yeah, but it is the cheapest way to communicate. Cellphone minutes are expensive there, while text msging is much cheaper. (Cheapskate SE Asian  Silly) (BTW I'm also from SE Asia, so I'm not trying to offend anybody)

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
Lumberton
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting Glom (Reply 29):
And the order is rather smaller than we were expecting.

20 / 20 isn't a bad day's work! Does anyone remember how many 777s they ordered initially when they opted to replace the A343?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
slz396
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:37 pm

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 22):
I do not know the actual deal, but if SQ already settles for 2011-13 delivery dates, I don't really see the need for a second line, since it increases the project risks significantly.

Although the second line has been mentioned several times, it does indeed constitute a big risk (you need to keep it filled, not only the first few years, but also after that), so maybe Boeing has dropped SQ a hint there will not be a second line for the 787 announced any time soon, in which case SQ better made their mind up about whether or not they wanted to have 787s altogether.

Fact is the mentioned delivery dates can be accommodated on the single production line: whether this is a pure coincidence (and SQ simply doesn't want the planes sooner) or a consequence (and SQ has to live with it) remains to be seen.

Anybody here who has an idea whether it will be 8 or 9 abreast for SQ?
Because only 2 days ago there seemed to be great consensus about the fact SQ was only interested in the -10 version of the 787, hence the fact they were reportedly not in a hurry to order anything form either A or B... Seems sometimes 'mainstream A.net' has it wrong....

[Edited 2006-06-14 12:44:05]
 
SFORunner
Posts: 306
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:44 pm

Boeing confrms:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2006/q2/060614b_nr.html

Boeing Statement Regarding Singapore Airlines 787 Dreamliner Announcement

SEATTLE, June 14, 2006 -- Boeing today issued the following statement:

"Boeing is delighted that Singapore Airlines (SIA) has announced its intention to purchase 20 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners, with first delivery anticipated in 2011. Singapore Airlines has a long-standing and well-deserved reputation as one of the world's outstanding carriers.
 
Lumberton
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:45 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 32):
Although the second line has been mentioned several times, it does indeed constitute a big risk (you need to keep it filled, not only the first few years, but also after that), so maybe Boeing has dropped SQ a hint there will not be a second line for the 787 announced any time soon, in which case SQ better made their mind up about whether or not they wanted to have 787s altogether.

 checkmark  Fully agree. I just can't see Boeing going for a second line at this point when there are supplier integration issues to be solved. Why compound the difficulty and increase the risk? Boeing is on a tear; Airbus is on the run. If the 2nd line would succeed, they could well neigh lock in segment dominance. If they experienced another '90s ramp up fiasco, this would provide Airbus a heaven sent opportunity to recover. I'd opt for the safe approach; bring the 787 to market first. But I don't build airplanes for a living....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Lumberton
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:47 pm

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 33):
Boeing is delighted that Singapore Airlines (SIA) has announced its intention to purchase 20 Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners, with first delivery anticipated in 2011. Singapore Airlines has a long-standing and well-deserved reputation as one of the world's outstanding carriers.

I find it extremely noteworthy that they sold this deal without any 2009-2010 slots. There was speculation that Boeing would entice them with some Primaris 2008 slots....
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:50 pm

Why has Boeing moved from calling SIA "the best" to now "one of the world's outstanding carriers."

Hmm. How rude!
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:50 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 35):
I find it extremely noteworthy that they sold this deal without any 2009-2010 slots. There was speculation that Boeing would entice them with some Primaris 2008 slots....

That's for 787-8 no? the order is 787-9... there might be some difference there...

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
Lumberton
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 37):
That's for 787-8 no? the order is 787-9... there might be some difference there...

Good point! Mmmmm....could they have had 787-8s earlier? If so, maybe AA, UA, or (good heavens!) DL will jump on these. LH? AF?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
slz396
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:56 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 34):
If they experienced another '90s ramp up fiasco, this would provide Airbus a heaven sent opportunity to recover.

Indeed, they can't risk that again, that would be foolish after all the hard work done....

On the other hand, IF the second 787 line is not opened, that means Airbus can in fact get away with the current A350 as it is.... They have lost SQ, and they might very well be willing to give up EK too if it can secure them the 184 (or what was it exactly) commitments for the A350 so far and have a good chance of winning more (with the 787 line fully packed)

A 25 to 30 % market share of the midsize wide body market should be a viable share to live off I think (Airbus has flourished with much less for most of their existence) and they could spend their money elsewhere in that case: A320replacement for instance

Do we have to read Mr. Leahy's comments that way?

If we stayed where we were, we'd have 30% of the market, which is pretty good...All this chaos in the press right now has stopped everybody from placing orders. So we've go to end [the speculation] at some point."

Personally, I wouldn't think it would be a bad idea....
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:58 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 38):
If so, maybe AA, UA, or (good heavens!) DL will jump on these. LH? AF?

AA and DL are givens for the 787 program. UA, LH, and AF are going to be our next exciting battles between Airbus and Boeing...
 
UALMMFlyer
Posts: 122
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:59 pm

Quoting

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 36):

Why has Boeing moved from calling SIA "the best" to now "one of the world's outstanding carriers."

Hmm. How rude!

Interesting! I've never noticed Boeing used the word "best" in its previous press releases to describe SQ. I guess I've never paid attention. I will dig out the news archives to take a look.

Regarding "rude", I guess several airlines have high quality products and services. SQ being "best" is a subjective debate. There are many publications and polls showing different "best" airlines.

"Rude" is a strong word, IMHO, especially in a subjective matter

[Edited 2006-06-14 13:28:30]

[Edited 2006-06-14 13:29:36]
Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 39):
If we stayed where we were, we'd have 30% of the market, which is pretty good...All this chaos in the press right now has stopped everybody from placing orders. So we've go to end [the speculation] at some point."

Funny thing, I thought airlines do not place aircraft orders based on press analysis. Plus, all the negative press came from the customers, not from some wild analysis press created. So, He can't really blame press for that. Blaming press for not being able to sell his airplane shows Leahy is living in his own dream.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
zoom1018
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 2:59 pm

RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:12 pm

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 36):
Why has Boeing moved from calling SIA "the best" to now "one of the world's outstanding carriers."

I do not think so...

Boeing has called Singapore Airlines differently...

a world leader in in-flight cabin services

a world class airline

one of the world's great airlines
...
Boeing does not only call SIA "the best"
 
Lumberton
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:12 pm

Quoting UALMMFlyer (Reply 41):
"Rude" is a strong word, IMHO, especially in a subjective matter

Please edit your post. Those were not my words. Thanks.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Lumberton
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:15 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 39):
A 25 to 30 % market share of the midsize wide body market should be a viable share to live off I think (Airbus has flourished with much less for most of their existence) and they could spend their money elsewhere in that case: A320replacement for instance

I have to agree with you again, both on the 30% mid-body share comment and the fact that the "real" contest will be the narrow body replacement market. However, the latter is quite away off given the engine manufacturers must step up with a new product first.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
UAL777UK
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:26 pm

Great News, and well done Boeing........no surprises though, it has to be said!
 
UALMMFlyer
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 44):

Sorry. I am not sure what happened with the "quote selected text" function.
Treat others like you'd like to be treated!
 
keesje
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:31 pm

Leahy speculated at the launch of the 787-8 that is was a little small. Me too a month ago: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2767099

ANZ has converted its -8s into -9s. Qantas pushed Boeing on improving the -9. Most airlines unexpectedly decided to put in 9 abreast in their -8's.

I can image Boeing is under pressure to pull forward the -9 & launch the -10 ASAP.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
9V-SVA
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RE: SIA Orders 20 787s

Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:37 pm

Could the $4.52 billion list price include parts and engines? From what I gather SQ has yet to choose an engine for the 787, but my guess is they will go with the Trent engine.

2011-2013 deliveries for the 787-9 seem logical considering that on the Boeing site, it mentions that EIS for the -9 will only take place in 2010..
9V-SVA | B772ER