FL370
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Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:55 am

looking at the past orders Singapore has made and those made by emirates, is Singapore another version of emirates. when both airlines place orders for new planes, they buy a lot!!! and i mean like 50 or more at once.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:59 am

No, EK is a Mid-East version of SQ.

Look at who has been in the business longer.
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B742
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 1):
No, EK is a Mid-East version of SQ.

Exactly what I was going to say  Wink

Singapore Airlines I feel is a much better airline also! EK used to be great, now I'd rather fly other airlines such as QR, TG, MH, SQ... when travelling to Asia  Smile

Rob!  wave 
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:08 am

First, EK and SQ are both Asian carriers. If you want to be specific, I would say EK is a Mid-East version of South-Eastern SQ. Also, please dont compare SQ and EK. As Rob pointed out, EK is a shadow of what it used to be. Even within the Mid-East, I'd rather fly on Qatar, MEA, or Etihad.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:49 pm

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
is Singapore another version of emirates

Argghg! Don't say that!  hissyfit 
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
antskip
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:04 pm

EK and SQ are very dis-similar airlines, other than they are both very successful at what they do, and like to have young and efficient aircraft. Amongst the top airlines - and these 2 are within that elite bracket - whether one airline or another is "better" comes down to personal preference, based only on one's own empirical experience. It is not a judgement that one can make objectively, let alone scientifically. For myself: I have flown EK around 30 times and never had less than a top time. And I fly cattle class...
 
leftwing
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:23 pm

EK and SQ flown both....cattel class is the best among its peers such as CX, QR etc....Ofcourse EK J class beats SQ by a mile..
 
Floris
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:57 pm

Quoting LeftWing (Reply 6):
EK and SQ flown both....cattel class is the best among its peers such as CX, QR etc....Ofcourse EK J class beats SQ by a mile..

Are you serious? EK doesn't even begin to come close. Nothing beats SQ business and first class. And EK is below average in economy - if only for the additional seats they squeeze in. Things where different 2 years ago, but now, EK is just a shade of what it used to be.
 
antskip
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:14 pm

Quoting Floris (Reply 7):
Things where different 2 years ago, but now, EK is just a shade of what it used to be.

On the Tasman run they are still fantastic (for me). My comparison airlines over the Tasman are NZ and QF. I am curious: if you don't like EK, who do you like? SQ? Do you pay more? ( and I assume, as you don't like EK any more, that you have stopped flying them?).
 
Aviator27
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:31 pm

"No, EK is a Mid-East version of SQ."

My sentiments exactly. Emirates is a Middle-East version of Singapore. Look who has been in business longer and through more business cycles.
 
brightcedars
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:47 pm

Definitely agree. SQ was already SQ when EK was a regional player and had a fleet of like 2 dozen A310s and A300s. EK grew fast to become a look like it would be an SQ class airline. I've flown over 20 times on SQ and the only other airline I flew that was on par or better is CX. Didn't fly EK yet to make my own comparison (I flew to DXB on AF).
I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
 
cy319
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:56 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 1):
EK is a Mid-East version of SQ.

that i was exactly what i was about to write!!  Smile
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bill142
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:06 pm

Also take into mind that Singapore had favourable tax laws which allow SQ to turn over their fleet regularly. This is why the order in large numbers to keep the fleet young and expand in a growing market.

Also SQ is a listed company and its books are there for all to see. Its a proven fact that SQ is a profitable airline and in fact only posted a loss on one or two occasions. While EK management tells us they are profitable, and we have no reason to doubt them, SQ's records are much more transparent.

Yes, they are both airlines which have had heavy government input, but that is probably where the similarities end. At times I worry about EK, they are expanding so rapidly that at some point something has to give. They order in massive quantities for expansion for demand that I'm not sure exists. But I'm no expert.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:08 pm

EK is a Middle East version of SQ not the other way around.
Besides EK has not done all its growing simply from hardwork as SQ did, EK doesn't have to pay tax etc which is why it has been able to grow so quickly.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
antskip
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:29 pm

SQ flies to 62 cities in 34 countries, EK to 83 cities in 57 countries. I think EK has an ambitious long-term plan to be a real global airline within the next 20 years, which is why they are busy slowly becoming "as if" a local airline everywhere, and why they need huge orders of planes coming into the grid constantly to satisfy that expansion. It shows every sign of a well-run, well-planned enterprise based on solid principles. SQ are not doing to bad, either! Whether they are expecting to match EK's global network saturation, I would be interested to know. Their asset purchase schedule over the next few years should indicate to some degree whether they do or not.
 
airbuspilot
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:43 pm

SO EK is the middle eastern version of SIA.....I hope some of their managers read these posts as well. It might have them reconsider their arrogance next pilots meeting...
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:53 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 12):
Also take into mind that Singapore had favourable tax laws which allow SQ to turn over their fleet regularly. This is why the order in large numbers to keep the fleet young and expand in a growing market.

I do not know how anybody can come into conclusion that favorable tax law allows SQ to turn over their fleet much earlier than other airlines. You have to make profit before you can buy new planes. You can't buy an airplane just by relying on tax breaks.

The tax law allows SQ to depreciate its aircrafts at a faster pace than other airlines, thus, higher depreciation expense and lower tax on profit. However, when SQ sells its aircraft, whatever gain they have from the book value is taxable.

The only advantage you get from this practice is only time value of money, as the total tax you get charged is still the same. Maybe the time value is pretty significant, however, it is not significant enough such that it allows SQ to place fleet renewal program.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane
 
United Airline
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:15 pm

Also SQ is bigger than EK (quite a lot actually)
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 1):
No, EK is a Mid-East version of SQ.

EXACTLY MY THOUGHT WHEN I READ THE TITLE!
 
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EK413
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:15 pm

I would have to say the Singapore Airlines tops the class when it comes to service....Not to mention the gorgoues cabin crew Big grin
Emirates likes to squeeze in Y/C pax!

EK413
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USADreamliner
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:46 am

I think is the other way around.

Singapore Airlines is a smart airline.Excellent service and a modern fleet.
Emirates is just an Airline with deep pockets.


USADreamliner
 
jacobin777
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Floris (Reply 7):
Are you serious? EK doesn't even begin to come close. Nothing beats SQ business and first class. And EK is below average in economy - if only for the additional seats they squeeze in. Things where different 2 years ago, but now, EK is just a shade of what it used to be.



Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
! EK used to be great, now I'd rather fly other airlines such as QR, TG, MH, SQ... when travelling to Asia

It's nice to see people agreeing with me here after almost 2 years harping on this subject....

EK's standards have gone down quite a bit the past 2-3 years....Back in
1998- 2001..when I first started flying with them..their services were second to none....when I flew JFK-DXB-KHI-DXB-JFK with them in 2004, I was quite shocked to see how much their services have declined......

I only fly them now for DXB-KHI-DXB services...that's about it....
"Up the Irons!"
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 20):
Singapore Airlines is a smart airline.Excellent service and a modern fleet.
Emirates is just an Airline with deep pockets.

= Very well put.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
lehpron
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting FL370 (Thread starter):
they buy a lot!!! and i mean like 50 or more at once.

That's like a developer buying so-many acres of land, that doesn't mean the houses or apartments or malls are going to rise up from nowhere. I think it is rare for any customer in any industry to pay all at once and get all at once. Large orders like can take YEARS to produce and then more to get back what you bought -- that was probably what they were planned/bought for. A carrier can buy 200 aircraft if their credit history could support it, nothing is arriving tomorrow.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
767er
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:54 pm

Remember SQ has been around a very long time.....1966 was their first flight and they grew very modestly over the next few years. Of course, they had the support of the Singaporean government. What they did well at was marketing and the fact they were ideally positioned in terms of location to serve the serve the expanding Australia/NZ market. The then tapped into into the burgeoning Asia markets and into the USA They rapidly marketed themselves as a truly Top Class Airline which in many respects still holds true today.

I don't think SQ have expanded anywhere near the extent EK has. But remember it was not that many years ago that each country and their national airlines were fiercly protective of the markets and there were incredibly tough regulatory laws in place preventing new airlines gaining access to a new market. 20 years ago EK would not have had a hope and hell of being such a dominant presence in Australia and NZ.

EK expansion has been astounding to say the least and i wish them well in the future.However, there are always problems when any company expands that quickly..there have already murmirings of a decline in service standards. Mind you, you hear the same thing about SQ at times.

Soooo......no..I would not say SQ is the Asian version of EK.
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
Pieinthesky
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:23 pm

Quoting LeftWing (Reply 6):
Ofcourse EK J class beats SQ by a mile..

I'm not sure what you've been taking mate but it must be very strong stuff.
 
ha763
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:46 am

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 16):
I do not know how anybody can come into conclusion that favorable tax law allows SQ to turn over their fleet much earlier than other airlines. You have to make profit before you can buy new planes. You can't buy an airplane just by relying on tax breaks.

It is the Singapore laws regarding depreciation that makes it favorable to SQ to replace relatively young aircraft. This allows SQ to quickly write off the aircraft from their books and sell them for a higher price than an older aircraft.
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: Is Singapore Airlines An Asian Version Of Emirates

Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:00 am

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 26):
It is the Singapore laws regarding depreciation that makes it favorable to SQ to replace relatively young aircraft. This allows SQ to quickly write off the aircraft from their books and sell them for a higher price than an older aircraft.

They get taxed from the difference between book value and the actual sell price, so in the end it does not matter.

The advantage is higher depreciation expense such that the accounting profit is lower, thus lower tax. All of the income tax is recouped during the sell of the aircraft. However, time value of money favors higher depreciation rate rather than lower.

Any airline can sell their equipment anytime they want at any book value. So, if AA decides they want to sell their brand spanking new B738 right now they are more than welcome to, they just have to make adjustment to its book.

Cheers,
PP
One day there will be 100% polymer plane