ContinentalGuy
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Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:08 am

What is the safest airline in terms of least crashes and accidents and incedents?
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:11 am

I recall reading somewhere once that Qantas was statistically the safest airline in the world.

Anybody got any information to back that up or disprove?

Thanks
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
N1120A
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 1):
I recall reading somewhere once that Qantas was statistically the safest airline in the world.

Well, according to The Rainman, it is. However, Southwest has an even better safety record.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
roseflyer
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:14 am

I believe it is now Qantas as they are the largest airline never to have a fatal accident. In terms of number of passengers carried, it use to be Southwest up until last year when there was a fatality on the ground after one of their 737s overan the runway at MDW in a snowstorm and killed a person in a car.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
legoguy
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:18 am

No doubt you will all know this site. Here is a list of airlines in the US with no fatalities since 1970.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/nofatals.htm
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
spartanmjf
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:20 am

To the best of my recollection, WN has not had a flight-related passenger or crew fatality. The tragedy at MDW resulted in a bystander's death, and if I am not mistaken, I think I recall an incident in which a passenger became confused and stepped out of an open door at the rear of an aircraft parked at a gate, falling to their death.

On the other hand, "Qantas, definitely Qantas" coming from Dustin Hoffman is a great line.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:55 am

QANTAS. Southwest, even with their accident in Chicago last December is still rated as very safe.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
I believe it is now Qantas as they are the largest airline never to have a fatal accident. In terms of number of passengers carried, it use to be Southwest up until last year when there was a fatality on the ground after one of their 737s overan the runway at MDW in a snowstorm and killed a person in a car.

The FAA/NTSB only classes passanger fatalities. So therefore I still believe it is WN.

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/Paxfatal.htm
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
ANother
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:26 am

A quick Goggle will show you that Qantas has had a number of fatal accidients - mostly in the propeller age. Recent non-fatal events include a B747-300 gear collapse in Rome and a B747-400 runway overrun in BKK (onto the Golf course).

It's an urban myth.
 
474218
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:01 am

BWIA has never had a fatal accident and they have been in commerical service for almost 60 years.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting ContinentalGuy (Thread starter):
What is the safest airline in terms of least crashes and accidents and incedents?

ElAl
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Asturias
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 9):
BWIA has never had a fatal accident and they have been in commerical service for almost 60 years.

I had not heard of that airline before, so I looked them up and they seem to have a nice fleet (A340s, B737NGs, Q400s) and an admirable safety record. Then there is the service.. Big grin

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/bwia.htm

Comments like:

«I travelled recently Heathrow to Georgetown (Guyana) via Barbados on the way out and Trinidad on the way back. You read the other posts on here and you think "BWIA can't be that bad, can they?" But then you fly them and they are worse.»

My my, they make Iberia look like Singapore Airlines in terms of service!  hyper 

(I just thought the descriptions were entertaining, I've not flown this airline and I don't want to prejudge them on someone else's experience. Many times it is the people who are very unhappy with the service that take the time to complain on websites *or* people who like to whine)

cheers

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
cedars747
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 10):
ElAl

No doubt that ELAL is the safest airline in the world !
Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:05 am

jetBlue has had nothing at all. One event that maybe something could have happened but then that is it. Southwest has had more events where deaths could have occured but no fatalities so them too.

B6jfk airplane 
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting ContinentalGuy (Thread starter):
Safest Airline?

IMO, no such thing. As long as the F.A.A. hasnt yanked anyone's 121/135 operating certificate, they're fine.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
In terms of number of passengers carried, it use to be Southwest up until last year when there was a fatality on the ground after one of their 737s overan the runway at MDW in a snowstorm and killed a person in a car.

That doesn't really count because that individual wasn't 'inflight'.

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 5):
The tragedy at MDW resulted in a bystander's death, and if I am not mistaken, I think I recall an incident in which a passenger became confused and stepped out of an open door at the rear of an aircraft parked at a gate, falling to their death.

Not an 'inflight' fatality, so it doesn't count.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:54 am

I've Always heard Qantas.
Stats are not always Fair though.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
IMO, no such thing. As long as the F.A.A. hasnt yanked anyone's 121/135 operating certificate, they're fine.

Except some institutional failures in pilot procedures and sloppy maintenance don't become aparant until after the crash...

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 13):
Southwest has had more events where deaths could have occured but no fatalities so them too.

The reason WN is considered the "safest" airline is the (1) sheer volume of passengers they carry, (2) number of flights they opperate, and (3) the lenght of time they have been doing this.

WN does an incredible number of shorthaul flights (the average flight is about 100 minutes) which means lots of take-offs and landings. That is considered the "riskiest" part of flying with the most variables. For example, a 737 flying 1,000 successful flights of one hour demonstrates greater safety than a 747 flying 200 flights of five hours despite the equal number of flight hours.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 10):
ElAl

Doubt that...

3 November 1977; El Al 747; over Belgrade, Yugoslavia: One passenger died after a decompression event.

4 October 1992; El AL 747-200; Amsterdam, Netherlands: Shortly after departing Amsterdam on a flight to Tel Aviv, the number three engine and pylon separated from the wing and collided with the number four engine. This collision also caused the number four engine and pylon to separate. Part of the leading edge of the right wing was damaged, and several other aircraft systems were affected. During an emergency air turnback to Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport, the crew experienced problems controlling the aircraft. The crew lost control of the aircraft shortly before landing, and the aircraft crashed into an apartment building. All three crew members and one other aircraft occupant were killed, as were 43 people on the ground.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:35 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 17):
Doubt that...

In any case I denominate such situations as "accidents" and every single airline in this world is exposed to that at anytime.

I still believe that ElAl is the safest.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
BCAL
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:04 pm

This topic comes up at least every two months and there are normally the same replies, all incorrectly pointing to QF, WN or another airline being the safest. In truth, there is no such thing as the “safest” airline – accidents can happen at any time to any airline. SQ had an excellent safety record but try telling that to the passengers who boarded Flight SQ006 SIN-LAX via Taipei on 31 October 2000.

It is pointless to base the answer on statistics. As Benjamin Disraeli (or Mark Twain) once said, “There are three kinds of lies: lies, dammed lies and statistics”. Statistics can be interpreted in many ways to conceal the truth. For example, in terms of miles travelled, flying is statistically the safest mode of transport but how many plane trips are taken daily compared with the number of car trips?

Most airlines operate to high safety standards but doubtless the standards of an airline under the jurisdiction of the US FAA or UK CAA must be higher than the standards of an airline under the jurisdiction of some corrupt African country. Some people might argue that even within the same country, some airlines are safer than others – e.g. WN is safer than AA – but there is no hard evidence other than statistics to support this.

If you went to a Lloyd’s broker and took out trip insurance, chances are that the premium would be the same no matter which airline you are flying with. They ask where you will be travelling to, but I have never known them asking about which airline you are flying with. Chances are that they associate the risk of an accident on most airlines as being the same; unless of course the airline is black listed and therefore special insurance cover would be required. However, I am sure that if they were asked specifically for a premium quote for a flight with Cubana, this would be higher than a quote for travelling with an airline like AA, BA, UA or LH.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
VHVXB
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:13 pm

Qantas hasn't had any big fatalities on its flights but it has had some incidents with aircraft including the one in BKK which cost the airline nearly $300 million to get that aircraft back in the air
 
ANother
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:20 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 20):
Statistics can be interpreted in many ways to conceal the truth.

For example when AF wrote off 8% of the Concorde fleet in a single day. It went from being the safest aircraft type to least safe.
 
ha763
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:49 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 8):
A quick Goggle will show you that Qantas has had a number of fatal accidients - mostly in the propeller age.

True. The "Qantas has had no fatal accidents" only applies to jet aircraft.

The oldest airline that has not had a fatal accident is Hawaiian. Hawaiian started flying in 1929.
 
VHVXB
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:35 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 21):
For example when AF wrote off 8% of the Concorde fleet in a single day. It went from being the safest aircraft type to least safe.

You are talking about the incident in 2000? Wasn't it caused by debris on the runway which resulted in the Concorde having problems after takeoff and not a direct problem with the aircraft??
 
nzrich
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:05 pm

If you look into every airline they all have their own share of incidends whether or not they have fatalities on board ..In the end it comes down to how a airline is run now .. A airline could have had the best track record in the past does not mean that its safe now !!! Also if you look at it from the other perspective a airline has a crash ie AF in Toronto you can not tell me that makes AF unsafe or less safe than it was the day prior to that accident!!!

Now if you look at some of the African airlines you would have to be a bit more choosy which airline you travelled on .But in general most major and minor airlines are safe when they have an organisation like the FAA in America CAA in NZ regulating the safety standards of those countries ...

Personally i dont like basing safety on historical events ..I think looking at the last 10 years is better and gives you a better vision on the safety standards of a airline right now .. Just because in 1970 a airline was the safest means only that it was safe then ..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
BNG777
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:20 pm

Definitely Qantas, Air Pacific and all other airlines in the South Pacific!
 
EI747SYDNEY
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:23 pm

If we are talking bout the jet age I would say Aer Lingus

Rob
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
antskip
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 24):
Personally i dont like basing safety on historical events

Yeh. I remember in the '70's that NZ used to brag constantly about its almost faultless safety record, as though that record should make one feel safer. Then in 1979 they lost a whole plane load of people on Erebus; from then on they didn't talk like that any more. Was NZ a safer airline in 1981 than 1978? Probably - not because of an impecable safety record, but the reverse: because it didn't have a good record. They learnt so much from 1979. Every near-tragedy offers help to prevent a later tragedy occuring; every tragedy that does occur saves so many people later on that would have been lost in a similar situation. Most of the airline industry has an enviable ability to learn collectively from its individual errors.
 
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vhqpa
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RE: Safest Airline?

Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:50 pm

I believe there was a statistical list done about 6 or 7 years ago

IIRC

#1 safest was Air Canada
#2 safest was Ansett Australia (ceased operations in 2002)
#3 safest was Qantas

#1 unsafest was Air Georgia which had a 1 in 333 (I believe) chance of an accident

not sure exactly how they did it I believe it was a combo of accident history, how long they have been flying, the airlines policys and the countries safety rules


Jason
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
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viasa
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:37 am

What's about Finnair?
 
usair320
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:46 am

TACA320 ELAL had a severe accident some time ago with a 747-200F that wiped out a Neiborhood outside AMS
 
EMBQA
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 2):
However, Southwest has an even better safety record.

No way. Southwest is a kid compaired to Qantas. Herb Kelleher was not even born when Qantas started flying....!!

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 13):
jetBlue has had nothing at all

PLEASE... what is B6..?? 4 years old...?? What is Qantas... nearly 90....!! What has B6 flow..?? A few million..? What has Qantas...? Several Billion...??

No, I'm not implying I'm a Qantas fan, but before we start throwing out statements we need to all use the same guide lines.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16):
Except some institutional failures in pilot procedures and sloppy maintenance don't become aparant until after the crash...

THEN...the certificate will get yanked...depending on how serious the issue(s) were or nelect on the 121/135's part....
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Yirmiyahu
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting ContinentalGuy (Thread starter):
What is the safest airline in terms of least crashes and accidents and incedents?

LY no doubt!
Hine Ma Tov Umenayim, Shevet Achim Gam Yachad
 
vv701
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:38 am

Well it is obvious really. According to CBS it is El Al:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/15/60II/main324476.shtml
or could it be Air Canada:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10615
or should they be American, British Airways, Delta, Lufthansa and Scandinavian:
http://archives.obs-us.com/obs/english/books/pg/pg488b.htm
or perhaps it was Southwest and now defunct America West in North America, Mexicana in Latin and South America, British Airways in Europe, South African in Africa and the Middle East, Qantas in Asia and Australasia and Southwest, America West and Qantas worldwide:
http://www.geocites.com/khlim777_my/ashowsafe1.htm
Have I missed someone? Oh! And how long is your piece of string? Mine is 12.567 cm!
 
roseflyer
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 32):
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 16):
Except some institutional failures in pilot procedures and sloppy maintenance don't become aparant until after the crash...

THEN...the certificate will get yanked...depending on how serious the issue(s) were or nelect on the 121/135's part....

Yes but that didn't stop a plane full of people from dying in the Florida Everglades because Valujet was unsafe. There are some airlines that are better than others. In the United States, I wouldn't have a problem getting on any airline. However in other parts of the world, I would be a whole lot more hesistant.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
TACAA320
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting Usair320 (Reply 30):
TACA320 ELAL had a severe accident some time ago with a 747-200F that wiped out a Neiborhood outside AMS



Quoting ContinentalGuy (Thread starter):
What is the safest airline in terms of least crashes and accidents and incedents?



Quoting Yirmiyahu (Reply 33):
LY no doubt!



Quoting VV701 (Reply 34):
Well it is obvious really. According to CBS it is El Al:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...shtml

It´s obvious!
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
TACAA320
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:32 am

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:45 am

WHAT?!?!?!?! Aeroflot didn't make the list?!?!?!  Silly Silly Silly

Just kidding.  Smile

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
Yirmiyahu
Posts: 48
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:12 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 36):
Quoting Yirmiyahu (Reply 33):
LY no doubt

I also forgot to add B6!
Hine Ma Tov Umenayim, Shevet Achim Gam Yachad
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:19 am

That I'm aware, F9 has had none. AS, two in the last thirty four years.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
jm017
Posts: 780
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:26 am

everytime this question comes up, all the QUANTAS folks come out of the woodworks. qUantas has had accidents in the past. They are ONE of the safest airlines and i have heard great things about them and can't wait to fly them, but there are quite a few airlines that have had NO accidents and no fatalities. I think a lot are smaller airlines.

[to all you A.netters who are about to have a stroke because of how I spelt the name, relax: just messing around  Smile].

QANTAS gets my respect because of the sheer distances of many of their routes. But the megacarriers have many more rotations and this ought to be recognized too.

I copied the following from a website: (http://www.bootsnall.com/guides/05-06/the-safest-airlines.html)

The Safest Airlines

By Patrick Smith

Using data mostly from Airsafe.com, below appear Ask the Pilot's Quarter-Century Safety Achievers -- a list of airlines that have gone fatality-free over the past 25 years. Certain small companies are omitted, though I've chosen to retain national flag carriers where applicable, regardless of size. All qualifying airlines have been in existence since at least 1980:

Air Berlin
Air Jamaica
Air Malta
Air Mauritius
Air Niugini (Papua New Guinea)
Air New Zealand
Air Portugal
Air Seychelles
Air Tanzania
Air Zimbabwe
Aer Lingus
All Nippon Airways (one crewmember killed by deranged passenger)
Austrian Airlines
Bahamasair
Britannia Airways
BWIA West Indies Airways (Trinidad and Tobago)
Cathay Pacific
Cayman Airways
Finnair
Ghana Airways
Hawaiian Airlines
Icelandair
Lacsa (Costa Rica)
Meridiana (Italy)
Monarch Airlines (UK)
Pluna (Uruguay)
Royal Brunei
Royal Jordanian
Southwest Airlines
Syrianair
TACA (El Salvador)
Tunis Air
Tyrolean Airways (Austria)
Qantas

Several of the above have perfect records pre-dating 1980. Airsafe's own rankings reach back an additional ten years. I chose 1980 to best account for the changeover period from older, first-generation jets and propliners to what most would consider "modern" fleets.
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
vv701
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 34):

http://www.geocites.com/khlim777_my/...1.htm



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 37):
http://www.geocities.com/khlim777_my/ashowsafe1.htm

Well at least two of us agree!
 
tsaord
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:12 am

I always thought it was Singapore Airlines.
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
avconsultant
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 4):
No doubt you will all know this site. Here is a list of airlines in the US with no fatalities since 1970.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/nofata...s.htm

This website was one of many cited in the government argument in wanting to police information on the web in the Summer of 2001. I read an article is some news magizine reporitng the owner of this site is a college professor out West.

His only comments were he had the right to post whatever he wanted and whenever. He said it was his Constitutional Right. I remember the article mentioning NBC and CBS removed this site from its list of sources. After this inquiry, I've been a cautious ever since.
 
aussie747
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 43):
I always thought it was Singapore Airlines.

Not with this record it doesn't

http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/sing.htm
 
sccutler
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:14 pm

These threads are such fun!

Aviation Safety, as defined by a fictitious character suffering from a mental deficiency. Really.

QANTAS have had fatalities, just none lately.

Southwest have had none, but fate could dial their number tomorrow.

There are precious few carriers I would not step onto tomorrow, knowing full well that the most dangerous part of the journey might well be the drive to the field.

Oh yeah, America West is not "defunct," they acquired US Airways and fly on under that name. "Defunct" implies "failed," which they most decidedly did not do.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
avconsultant
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RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:12 pm

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 46):
These threads are such fun!

Aviation Safety, as defined by a fictitious character suffering from a mental deficiency. Really.

QANTAS have had fatalities, just none lately.

Southwest have had none, but fate could dial their number tomorrow.

There are precious few carriers I would not step onto tomorrow, knowing full well that the most dangerous part of the journey might well be the drive to the field.

Oh yeah, America West is not "defunct," they acquired US Airways and fly on under that name. "Defunct" implies "failed," which they most decidedly did not do.

It's very entertaining
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Safest Airline?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 42):
Well at least two of us agree!

Nevertheless, I don't change my mind about LY.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein