coa747
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Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:40 pm

Following from an article in the Guardian about the latest delay to the A380 program. Seems Noël Forgeard is trying to place the blame squarely on Gustav Humbert for the latest A380 delay.

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1797692,00.html

Noël Forgeard, co-chief executive of EADS and architect of the A380 project, to make an abject apology to investors and implicitly warn Gustav Humbert, the new head of Airbus, to get a grip or quit. He threatened to impose a more centralised command structure and in effect seize control of the plane-maker that until last year he headed himself.

"I have built my entire industrial career on building confidence for shareholders. When I was at Airbus we never missed a projection that we gave and this comes as a big blow," he told analysts on a conference call, casting doubt on the future of the German Mr Humbert.

Funny because I believe the A380 was Forgeard's pet project, so he created this mess in the first place. Also wasn't it under Forgeard's watch that Airbus stood by and did nothing when the 787 was announced. Wasn't he also at the healm when they brough the A350 to market which garned little if any interest. Wasn't he also in charge when the A340-500/600 program was launched which has since proved a dismal failure. He then exits leaving Airbus with A380 mess and no cohernt product strategy and a huge gap in its product family and some how this is Humbert's fault.

The only one who needs to get a grip is Forgeard. He is the one who is reponsible for the current tailspin Airbus is in, and he alone should be held responsible. They need to give him the boot and fast before he can do anymore damage.
 
mham001
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RE: No�l Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:57 pm

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
When I was at Airbus we never missed a projection that we gave and this comes as a big blow,"

This guy is a full-fledged clown, and a liar.
 
Ken777
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:00 pm

Now let's see how the board (and Humbert) respond. Maybe it's time for Forgeard to go.
 
NAV20
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
They need to give him the boot

'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
jacobin777
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RE: No�l Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):

'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.

NAV20, such a shame, as I think Humbert, if given the autonomy, could do a very good job at Airbus.......and certainly get out of this mess Forgeard and his buddies have created
"Up the Irons!"
 
coa747
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:23 pm

Humbert is trying his best to get things back on track but it will take time. If Forgeard and his buddies push him out then it will be a huge setback to Airbus. Bottom line publicly bashing the head of Airbus not only hurts Airbus but EADS as well. A really bonehead move on Forgeard's part not to mention the fact that it doesn't instill much confidence in EADS or Airbus from a customer or shareholder perspective. Forgeard is doing a really good job of running Airbus into the ground and he doesn't even work there anymore. Who were the idiots who thought he would be a good choice to run EADS.
 
NAV20
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:30 pm

Jacobin777, there's a lovely sly joke they tell in Ireland, about a tourist lost in the Wicklow Mountains (known for charming winding roads that turn out to lead nowhere in particular) who asks for directions back to the city. The guy starts off giving them directions; changes his mind and starts again; has one more try; and finally says:-

"You know, the truth of it is - if you want to get back to Dublin, you'd best not start from here...."

Can't help feeling that that exactly describes Airbus' situation at this time.  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
Ken777
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:31 pm

If Humbert gets pushed out will he be under a no compete clause? If not things could get even more painful for Airbus. The only thing worse is if he were to get a senior position at a major airline.
 
airfrnt
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):

'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.

Mr. Chirac's time in office is severly limited right now, with the events of the last year being very unfriendly to his office. Mr. Foregeard is closely linked to Mr. Chirac and is (imho) not likely to stick around when the next government changes.

This really does look like a internal Airbus battle. You don't as CEO of a large company out a subordinate unless you are planning on firing said executive.
 
jacobin777
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RE: No�l Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 6):
Jacobin777, there's a lovely sly joke they tell in Ireland, about a tourist lost in the Wicklow Mountains (known for charming winding roads that turn out to lead nowhere in particular) who asks for directions back to the city. The guy starts off giving them directions; changes his mind and starts again; has one more try; and finally says:-

"You know, the truth of it is - if you want to get back to Dublin, you'd best not start from here...."

Can't help feeling that that exactly describes Airbus' situation at this time.

lol...I get the feeling you are right, but you have been correctly stating this situation for a long time, even in the midst of intense flaming...if I had some room on my RSU list, I would be putting you 2nd in line (after another A.net member who should be on my RSU-list)...... Smile

cheers...
"Up the Irons!"
 
grantcv
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:07 pm

Imagine if Forgeard had had the insight to launch an A370 in 1999/2000 to tackle the B773 & B773ER rather than going with the A345/A346 and A380? They could have EIS'ed last year, blunted the impact of the B773ER and B772LR and be working on a growth version to neutralize the B748 now. With the saving from those better decisions, they could have launched a true competitor to the B787 back in 2004 and would be well positioned to begin replacing the A320 before Boeing does the B737 replacement. The seeds of Airbuses current woes were planted quite a while ago by Forgeard.
 
iwok
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
"I have built my entire industrial career on building confidence for shareholders. When I was at Airbus we never missed a projection that we gave and this comes as a big blow,"

numerous statements like this that we have heard come out of management....

its plain that EADS management is in wild dissarray.

At any real company it would be shakeup time in a big way.

At Airbus, it appears to be business as usual...

Something needs to be done!

Dare we say that the 5-year old EADS "experiment" has been a failure?

iwok
 
NAV20
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:22 pm

Telling that he talks about 'shareholders', not 'customers'.

I've always had the impression that, unlike their Boeing counterparts, the Airbus bosses just aren't 'aeroplane people'.That they're just businessmen who happen to be running an aircraft manufacturing company.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
astuteman
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:41 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.

I (very sadly) think that this is a good call, NAV20. Just the sort of motivation Gustav needs right now.........
 
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mariner
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:42 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
Telling that he talks about 'shareholders', not 'customers'.

Um - he was talking about the disaster that was EADS shares today.

You don't think the shareholders deserve an apology?

mariner
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saturn5
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:42 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
the Airbus bosses just aren't 'aeroplane people'.That they're just businessmen who happen to be running an aircraft manufacturing company.

Well said. Or better yet - they are 'politicians'.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:46 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 14):
Um - he was talking about the disaster that was EADS shares today.

Come on Mariner, you don't expect a little thing like a fact to get in the way of a good Airbus/Forgeard bash do you? wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
Toulouse
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:53 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.

That I do agree with you on. Forgeard is a friend of Chirac. And they're both fools. Presidential elections are coming soon, and Chirac will be gone. France is in major need of a huge change (ie. modernisation) to it's political and business world. The country needs fresh blood in the top spots, and that's certainly not Chirac, or Villepin or Sarkosy or the likes. French people seem to be sick and tired of the incompetence and old-world backward views of their political and many industrial leaders. I sincerely hope the next presidential elections will make this turning point and put France back in the high profile position it deserves, as no matter what somemay say here (especially Bush supporters), France is a great country and deserves better. And that "better" is slowly becoming a necessity.

Forgeard turn on Humbert... Just shows what a fool Forgeard is.
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mariner
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:53 pm

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 15):
Or better yet - they are 'politicians'.

Mr. Leahy is a politician? Gee, that's novel. I've heard him callled many things, but never a politcian.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 16):
Come on Mariner, you don't expect a little thing like a fact to get in the way of a good Airbus/Forgeard bash do you?

Not really. After NAV20's expressed hope yesterday that this is The End for Airbus, I'm ready for anything.

What intrigues me is that M. Forgeard is so despised here, and Herr Humbert is given a constant free pass.

This makes me think that Boeing partisans feel that Herr Humbert might not be so - challenging.

 Smile

mariner
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saturn5
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:06 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
I've heard him callled many things, but never a politcian

Gee, a clear oversight. Mr. Leahy is most politician of them all. Enaging in mud-slinging, facts-distortion, false advertising, self serving statements - list is long. Maybe politicans in your country don't do that - I better emigrate there. Big grin
 
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mariner
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:17 pm

Quoting Saturn5 (Reply 19):
Maybe politicans in your country don't do that - I better emigrate there. 

Ah, no - please. You wouldn't like it here. Air New Zealand flies A320's.

mariner
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katekebo
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:05 pm

So first it was BAE vs. EADS. Now it's Forgeard vs. Humbert. Also Leahy is visibly upsets and is starting to spit venom. This internal fighting won't do any good for Airbus and EADS, and more ugly stuff will come out.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:20 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
What intrigues me is that M. Forgeard is so despised here, and Herr Humbert is given a constant free pass.

This makes me think that Boeing partisans feel that Herr Humbert might not be so - challenging.

I'm now of the view that they both should go.
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Rheinbote
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
Following from an article in the Guardian about the latest delay to the A380 program. Seems Noël Forgeard is trying to place the blame squarely on Gustav Humbert for the latest A380 delay.

Following from an article in German Magazine der SPIEGEL the same plot is put forward now by Lagardere, who's a major shareholder in and co-chairman of EADS.

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,421596,00.html

Sickening to see that Forgeard and his clique have nothing else in mind than strengthening their grip on Airbus.

Likewise sickening to know that Forgeard sold of his and his families' shares in EADS just before all this turmoil was published, and that both Lagardere and DaimlerChrysler managed to sell a 7.5 % stake each to French and German state-owned banks before the stock price took a nosedive. Yet another scheme of taxpayer rip-off.
 
jacobin777
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RE: No�l Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):

What intrigues me is that M. Forgeard is so despised here

he's despised for a reason...

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
This makes me think that Boeing partisans feel that Herr Humbert might not be so - challenging.

I think he's an intelligent man, and given autonomy, he would make Airbus a formidable competitor to Boeing....

of course, we've had this debate in another thread, so maybe we should leave it at that.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
NAV20
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:59 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
After NAV20's expressed hope yesterday that this is The End for Airbus, I'm ready for anything.

Not a hope, Mariner, an 'educated guess.' The BAE put option, plus the share slide, is likely to lead EADS/Airbus into an insoluble cash flow problem within quite a short time.

Over the next month or so I expect that we'll have a figure for the BAE buyout, numerous Boeing orders from key airlines (and none for Airbus), a 'damp squib' at Farnborough, a continuing boardroom 'civil war', and very possibly several A380 order cancellations.

I would expect (and hope, for the sake of Airbus' workforce) that. if push comes to shove, the EU will come up with some sort of re-financing plan - probably along 'Rolls-Royce 1971' lines. But that will cost an awful lot of money; and, since it will entail virtual nationalisation, I don't know off-hand how it will sit with the WTO.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
okelleynyc
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:17 pm

This is all so maddening....

Where is the mea maxima culpa from Forgeard?

Where is the detailed identification of the technical challenges or manufacturing issues related to the delay? While Boeing has it's own detractors and issues with the 787, at least we here on the forum have had loads of opportunity to discuss "Bubbles". We were actually talking about mandrel sizes and and material science for Pete's Sake! Yet we (at least me) don't have a clue yet where we stand with wake turbulence, wing modifications, cruise performance, etc.

Where is the definition of the problem from Airbus? Where is the process improvement plan (PI) and Quality Assurance (QA) targets to get through this and ultimately launch the A380? If this were available, I believe that a lot of this "bashing" would cease and we could get on to discussing other issues. Instead we're all worked up in a lather largely because we're in the dark and left with only speculation.

Where is the rallying of the troops to boost morale and to take this opportunity to get it absolutely right? If I were an EADS employee, I'd be pretty upset by now and embarassed by the antics of senior management. Maybe dejected is a better adjective. Could this be a reason for the clipped wiring harnesses?

Where are the metrics to validate the performance claims and build confidence with the customers?

Maybe all all of the above has been addressed and I don't need to know.

Maybe Airbus should bring in Toyota and invest in their LEAN process.

I desperately want the a380 to fly and to be successful but can't see how that's possible with the current management.

A little transparency would go a long way in restoring our confidence in this project and I only hope and pray that Boeing is taking notes and will continue to keep us all in the loop......
Just give me my Vario, my Ozone Mojo and a gorgeous day of soaring.
 
katekebo
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 25):
I would expect (and hope, for the sake of Airbus' workforce) that. if push comes to shove, the EU will come up with some sort of re-financing plan - probably along 'Rolls-Royce 1971' lines. But that will cost an awful lot of money; and, since it will entail virtual nationalisation, I don't know off-hand how it will sit with the WTO.

100% agree. EU will not allow EADS and Airbus to die. EADS is important for strategic reasons, while Airbus is essential for political and pride reasons. Also, most airlines do not want Boeing to become monopoly.

However, it is quite probable that the world airliners market will look somewhat different in a couple of years. I would not be surprized that Airbus will be separated from EADS. Basically EADS would concentrate on the military and space programs and sell Airbus to a new owner. Actually, it may be a great opportunity to buy Airbus cheaply - maybe Lockheed could jump in and get back into the airliner business.

Also, third player may show up. With Boeing fully absorbed in the B787 program for the next 2-3 years, and Airbus dealing with the A380 and A350 technical challenges, as well as financial issues, a new player could "steal" the narrowbody market. Several possibilities - for example a joint venture between a Japanese company and Embraer or one of the Russian aiplane companies. Honda is already somewhat involved in the aviation business, although at a very small scale, but they have s***loads of money - their financial and business resources combined with the technical talent of Sukhoy or Tupolev could be a formidable contender. Also, with GE and RR developing engines for the next generation of widebodies, P&W could come up with a smaller fuel efficient engine for the new narrowbody.

Highly speculative, but a possible scenario 3-4 years down the road is:
- Boeing regaining the lead with approx. 50% of the total market share
- A new player grabing anywhere between 20 and 30% of the market with a new generation narrowbody
- Airbus relegated to a 2nd or even 3rd place, under new ownership
 
NAV20
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 27):
Airbus is essential for political and pride reasons

I know what you mean, Katekebo - but I for one hope that 'Airbus 2007', if it eventuates, isn't run that way. That sort of thinking is the factor that has run Airbus into the ground in the first place.  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 27):
Highly speculative, but a possible scenario 3-4 years down the road is:
- Boeing regaining the lead with approx. 50% of the total market share
- A new player grabing anywhere between 20 and 30% of the market

I agree with most of your comments although...

1) Boeing is forecasted to have 60%+ market share by the time the 787 starts shipping in numbers. What? 2008 - 2009? Not that far away...

2) The infrastructure needed to create a "third player" simply isn't anywhere on the horizon, right now. Although I agree, in 10 to 20 years we will see a third player.
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frequentflyer
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:25 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 8):
Mr. Chirac's time in office is severly limited right now, with the events of the last year being very unfriendly to his office. Mr. Foregeard is closely linked to Mr. Chirac and is (imho) not likely to stick around when the next government changes.

Agree. Chirac is really worn out, after a dismal 11 years in office. Borders on incompetency.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 17):
Forgeard is a friend of Chirac. And they're both fools

Very well phrased!

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 17):
French people seem to be sick and tired of the incompetence and old-world backward views of their political

Right. But I think old-world in this case is a polite way to say incompetent.

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 17):
Forgeard turn on Humbert... Just shows what a fool Forgeard is.

Or how desperate he is.
Or both.
Actually, both  Wink
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katekebo
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 29):
2) The infrastructure needed to create a "third player" simply isn't anywhere on the horizon, right now. Although I agree, in 10 to 20 years we will see a third player.

I think there is still substantial idle capacity "dormant" in Russia, that can be revived with Japanese money and manufacturing know-how.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:39 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 31):
I think there is still substantial idle capacity "dormant" in Russia, that can be revived with Japanese money and manufacturing know-how.

I think that the introduction of the latest Ilyushins^1 would be interesting, to say the least! But sadly, there are other factors at play, and whatever the merits of the general model of aircraft that Pres. Putin himself uses, it would be a decade or more before Russia could become a major player in the commercial airliner business.

I've read as well that Putin had some not-so-nice reactions to technical delays in the wake of a recent trip he had on his Presidential aircraft, but that's not of so great a importance in this context.
_____________________________________
1. Internal reference: The Ilyushin 96M and 96T: http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=254

[Edited to correct Ilyushin designation and to add reference.]

[Edited 2006-06-15 17:49:51]
What's fair is fair.
 
coa747
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:49 am

That is just what Airbus needs is for Forgeard to take defacto control of Airbus from EADS. A power struggle is just what Airbus and EADS needs at this point. Another distraction that will cost time and lost orders. I believe the Singapore order yesterday should be a wake up call for all concerned at Airbus. Simply put Singapore gave up on Airbus and is very angry about the loss of early delivery slots on the 787 line because Airbus said it had a better aircraft and so Singapore waited. Alas Airbus produced a big fat nothing 5 times over and tested Singapore's patience. I just can't see how being satisfied with 30% or less of the 767/A330 market is acceptalbe. It is that kind of thinking that will surely put you out of business. A half assed effort will certainly not play well with investors and isn't what I would call a sound business strategy. These delays are also putting Airbus in a position where they will be a full development cycle behind Boeing. In 2012 Boeing will be turning its attention to other projects like 737 and 777 replacement and Airbus will just be bringing its first 787 competitor to market.
 
CptGermany
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:59 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 23):
Sickening to see that Forgeard and his clique have nothing else in mind than strengthening their grip on Airbus.

Likewise sickening to know that Forgeard sold of his and his families' shares in EADS just before all this turmoil was published, and that both Lagardere and DaimlerChrysler managed to sell a 7.5 % stake each to French and German state-owned banks before the stock price took a nosedive. Yet another scheme of taxpayer rip-off.

 checkmark 

Welcome to my RU list. Not just for this comment, but in general your posts seem to have good information in them. They are interesting to read.

It is very sad to see that Airbus, EADS, the workforce, customers and taxpayers seem to be victims of an internal battle about the leadership at EADS. I think that in this matter, the French were disappointed not to have a French guy leading Airbus after Foregeard left. All the things that we see now is a continuation of that.

On another note, according to all the articles about the A380 delay, the reason for the production shortages are problems with wiring and wiring harnesses. I did a search online to find out who is the subcontractor for the electrical wiring, and I found out it is a company called Labinal which is a subsidiary of Safran in France. Now, in the past two months quite a few friends of mine were hired by Labinal to work on the 787, because according to them Labinal is the prime subcontractor for all the electrical wiring work on the 787 as well. Is this information correct, and if yes, will Boeing take a closer look at their supplier. I do not wish Boeing a similar fate as Airbus in this matter.

I hope I didn't change the topic too much, but this is merely a piece of information that I was able to gather, and that I wanted to post in order to see whether my view of things is correct.
 
cxb744
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting Coa747 (Thread starter):
Funny because I believe the A380 was Forgeard's pet project, so he created this mess in the first place. Also wasn't it under Forgeard's watch that Airbus stood by and did nothing when the 787 was announced. Wasn't he also at the healm when they brough the A350 to market which garned little if any interest. Wasn't he also in charge when the A340-500/600 program was launched which has since proved a dismal failure. He then exits leaving Airbus with A380 mess and no cohernt product strategy and a huge gap in its product family and some how this is Humbert's fault.

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"It's not my Fault!" Get a backbone Forgeard please!
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ikramerica
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 13):
I (very sadly) think that this is a good call, NAV20. Just the sort of motivation Gustav needs right now.........



Quoting Okelleynyc (Reply 26):
Instead we're all worked up in a lather largely because we're in the dark and left with only speculation.

Certain people slam me for saying it, but it's due to political issues and multinational egos.

You blame a certain sub assembly or process, you are blaming a COUNTRY and that doesn't sit well.

EADS/Airbus is a UN of a company, disfunctional and unwilling to call a spade a spade.

Funny how people will admit that the leadership of EADS is entirely political, but the underlying structure is purely business in their minds. The decision to build the A380 was a pure business case decision, not a political one. Launching new jets is purely business despite government funding.

You can't have it both ways. Airbus is trying to, and it's falling apart. Pretending to be a private company doesn't change that.
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katekebo
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting CXB744 (Reply 35):
Get a backbone Forgeard please!

Out of topic, so my post will probably get deleated, but just to lighten things a little bit.....

When the battle of Waterloo was about to start, Wellington called his assistant and told him: "Bring my red shirt, so if I'm wounded in battle, troops won't notice the blood and panic won't spread among the soldiers."

Somehow Napoleon overheard this request and immediately called his assistant: "Soldier, bring my brown trousers, s.v.p. ......."
 
Halibut
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:09 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
Not really. After NAV20's expressed hope yesterday that this is The End for Airbus, I'm ready for anything.

What intrigues me is that M. Forgeard is so despised here, and Herr Humbert is given a constant free pass.

This makes me think that Boeing partisans feel that Herr Humbert might not be so - challenging.

Here we go again Mariner !  boggled 
Do you really beleive that or are you just excersizing your verbage ?

And I ask you again Mr Mariner ,
Has Airbus produced a winning aircraft in the last 10 years & how has Airbus benefitted from Noel within that time ???



Halibut
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 24):
of course, we've had this debate in another thread, so maybe we should leave it at that....

Correct Jacobin777 , we have had this debate before . " BUT " Mariner never answered my question !

 sly 

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 3):
'They' is effectively President Chirac. Forgeard was his economic adviser for years and Chirac's nominee for Joint CEO of EADS. No way he'll be fired, they'll just pile the blame on poor old Humbert.



Quoting CptGermany (Reply 34):
It is very sad to see that Airbus, EADS, the workforce, customers and taxpayers seem to be victims of an internal battle about the leadership at EADS. I think that in this matter, the French were disappointed not to have a French guy leading Airbus after Foregeard left. All the things that we see now is a continuation of that.

= Exactly what I was thinking. If Gustav Humbert is given some space, I am sure he will be able to break Airbus's rut. Noel F and (the French contingent at large) seem very bitter that a German is in charge of Airbus. I just dont understand it. Whatever happened to supporting someone with some technical competence.

Cheers,
A.
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glideslope
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:41 am

No surprise here. This is EXACTLY what people have been fearing. You CAN'T HAVE 2 CEO"S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fix it now, or say Goodbye.  

[Edited 2006-06-15 22:41:51]
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 37):
Out of topic, so my post will probably get deleated, but just to lighten things a little bit.....

When the battle of Waterloo was about to start, Wellington called his assistant and told him: "Bring my red shirt, so if I'm wounded in battle, troops won't notice the blood and panic won't spread among the soldiers."

Somehow Napoleon overheard this request and immediately called his assistant: "Soldier, bring my brown trousers, s.v.p. .......

Man, your good.  Smile
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
jacobin777
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RE: No�l Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:33 am

Quoting Halibut (Reply 39):
Correct Jacobin777 , we have had this debate before . " BUT " Mariner never answered my question !

Maybe Mariner assumed the discussion was going to be finished off on the other thread.. Smile

cheers..
"Up the Irons!"
 
blast
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 12):
I've always had the impression that, unlike their Boeing counterparts, the Airbus bosses just aren't 'aeroplane people'.That they're just businessmen who happen to be running an aircraft manufacturing company.

Business men with too close links to French national politics they are IMHO. I completely agree that Humbert would be a better choice to run the show.. But what can we all say.. He is not French..
 
Kangar
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:03 am

I have to say that Forgeard's behaviour lately is just pathetic. If the board has even a shred of vision, they'll get this idiot out of sight asap. At least Hunbert has the vision to listen to the customers on the A350. Also, the building blocks of this latest A380 f*** up were firmly laid during Forgeard's tenure at Airbus. I can say that I have never before seen such a spectacular fall from grace. The man has absolutely no personal integrity.
 
blast
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:28 pm

In another thread, BAE Launches Attack On Eads (by BoeingBus Jun 15 2006 in Civil Aviation), I stumbled upon this link http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/15/business/airbus.php put there by RedFlyer and it reveals exactly what is wrong in France and in Airbus:

"To many observers, Forgeard is emblematic of France's tightly knit world of business and politics, in which many senior decision makers, most of them educated in a handful of exclusive schools, move in the same narrow circles"

"But Forgeard also owes his steep rise to political connections...Chirac was instrumental in installing him at the helm of Airbus, against the will of major shareholders like Lagardère and Jürgen Schrempp, then chief executive of DaimlerChrysler".

"Airbus employees and French Finance Ministry officials who have seen Forgeard in management meetings and in public describe him as... deeply political, fiercely hierarchical and constantly looking to further his career."

In other words, the politics, the hierachical style, the personal greed, the ego's: it all allows for an artificially created "team" at Airbus, or other huge companies, with the wrong people at the helm where they can simply f**k up..

And poor Humbert, unfortunately, can not do much to change this culture. He still has Foregeard, and thus Chirac, above him.

If anything were to improve, ever, France as a country and a culture should start regarding politics and the economy as different entities. They should be different worlds; get the politics out of bussines!
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:22 pm

I think that for historical as well as political reasons, French influence in Airbus has been predominant.

Even decades ago, Aerospatiale, a French concern, was better known in the United States than any equivalent German aerospace company, although there is no question that there was very high competence in Germany as regards aviation industry. And, with the European Space Agency, the Ariane series of rockets, its most famous and successful series of boosters, is associated with France.

Nevertheless, it seems to me that these are no reasons that the German side of Airbus should not be given the lead as appropriate to its stake in the company.
What's fair is fair.
 
frequentflyer
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:28 pm

The silver lining: hopefully Forgeard will be sent home and it'll be a new era for AB with Humbert applying professional Management.
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RE: Noël Forgeard's Response To The Latest A380 Delay

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:34 pm

If reports this morning (06/16/06) are true that Airbus management were aware of the manufacturing problems and the additional delays back in April of this year, then I do not see how anyone can defend Forgeard's tenure as CEO.
Then, he sells his stock in the company before the announcement? That to me is boardering on criminal actions. We call it "insider trading" here in the States and people have gone to jail for it.
I'm sorry, my good friends on A.net, but this thing is really starting to smell bad.
The people who are really getting screwed are the employees at Airbus, who work hard to produce fine aircraft, IMHO.

[Edited 2006-06-16 14:37:50]
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