MSYYZ
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Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:35 am

A Zoom B767 scary landing at Manchester . Note the pilot never used the thrust reverser .
http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...line_Zoom_Aviation_Video-6420.html
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ptharris
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:38 am

Wow... wonder what his hurry was all about. If you watch closely enough, you can notice the wing flex from the bounce. I'd say an inspection of the undercarrage is in order.  Big grin
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
planesarecool
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:53 am

Hmmm i don't think it was that hard. Where i sometimes spot at Gatwick, you get a clear view down the runway, and a lot of aircraft really thump into the runway and bounce all over the place. The thing i find somewhat strange is that the based carriers at Gatwick usually have the smoothest landings and its the non-based carriers that will have the more 'eventful' landings, something i noticed at Heathrow and Los Angeles as well.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
Note the pilot never used the thrust reverser

I guess he had enough runway. You don't not always need to use TR's... Today's braking systems offer enough stopping power.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
raffik
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:55 am

I wonder how it felt for the poor passengers! Nasty landing!
- Alec
 
MD88Captain
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:23 am

I'm not sure I watched the same video. I was expecting a spectacularly hard landing. That didn't look bad at all.
 
RandyWaldron
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:17 am

Ummm...I expected to see something like that Tradewinds 747 going off of the runway or something.

It looked harder than it was. No big thing at all - just some rattled nerves and bruised egos.
"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
 
cwldude
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:24 am

MUCH rather them than me!

Looked like a pretty windy approach aswell!! Still... at least they got down safely  Smile
Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:08 pm

Honestly I don't think it looked that hard, but the flare was terribly executed.
I'll give it a 5 out of 10 Big grin
 
Daleaholic
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:10 pm

Quite a hard landing compared to many I've seen from that point of view. Must've been a few screams in the cabin!
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CRGsFuture
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:27 pm

Bounce baby bounce, but not all that spectacular.
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oakjam
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:33 pm

Looks like the landing I've had on DL109 from ATL to MAD. MAD always seem to be a rough landing for DL. I felt the plane bounce and the some hard braking with the plane turning to the side.
 
worldjet777
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:26 pm

You all have obviously never flown Hainan Airways! Their landings were some of the hardest I have ever felt- It was a lot of fun but also made one think about the "location of the nearest exit"  Smile
Cheers,
wj777
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N766UA
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:33 pm

Go watch the video of the 777 crosswind tests... then you'll see some hard landings with extreme wing flex. That 767 landing sucked but it wasn't anything extreme.
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darrenthe747
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:59 pm

Quoting Cwldude (Reply 7):
Still... at least they got down safely

jeez it was a semi hard NORMAL landing, no emergency or anything else out of the ordinary. i've seen a lot worse than that!
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
cwldude
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:08 pm

Quoting Darrenthe747 (Reply 14):

I wasn't actually saying that there was any reason for the plane to not touch down safely - I was merely pointing out that it could have been a lot worse than what people are making out!

Chill out man!
Thomson Airways - The UKs premier charter airline // now flown : BY -AA -AJ -AE -AT; OO -AX -AU -RA -BG; BRIG; OBYD
 
bx737
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:14 pm

Landing didn't seem to be too bad, well the second one was better Big grin Regarding reverse thrust, a lot of airlines are not using reverse thrust nowadays. How much fuel is used and could a lack of reverse thrust save on fuel bills?
 
MYT332
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:16 pm

So main wheels down, nose wheel down and then nose wheel back up and gently down again. Not a 'normal' landing per se but a safe one. Hell for Skyservice, that's actually a great landing!

Signed,
C-GLMC
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Tristarsteve
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:24 pm

Quoting Oakjam (Reply 11):
MAD always seem to be a rough landing for DL

MAD has a rough runway. Normal operations there trigger the alerts on the flight recorder readouts.
 
Rick767
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:39 pm

I have done much worse than that myself. The 763 can really bite you on landing if you get the flare wrong. I always found it a difficult aircraft to land, especially if I'd been flying the 757 all week!
I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
 
blast
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:45 pm

Not a textbook example of how one should land an airliner, but nothing bad or dangerous either, I'd say.. Perhaps some one could say something about a possible crosswind situation here?
 
Demoose
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:02 pm

Cool video, not a really hard landing, but it bounced about quite a bit. I'm flying on a 767-300 on monday, will see how good the Thomsonfly pilots are at landing it now Rick767 has moved on  Wink

Mark
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scoliodon
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:04 pm

Not bad..not bad at all!!
I have done this and much worse on good ol' FS2004 Big grin
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Qantas744er
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):
I guess he had enough runway. You don't not always need to use TR's... Today's braking systems offer enough stopping power.

T/R has nothing to do with stopping distance, because if the pilot uses autobreaks 2 and then also uses T/R the brakes will automatically use less force, because of the T/R.

By the way, all the breaking distance tables now a days, with the numbers displayed dont even include the use of T/R, so using T/R and autobreaks wont stop the pane faster, but only wear the breaks off more.'

And the plane did seem to have a pretty big Cross/head wind, so this is another factor not to use T/R

Cheers Leo
Happiness is V1 in Lagos
 
EasternSon
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:42 pm

Sorry, maybe a stupid question, but where should I look to see if the T/R are deployed? Is it directly behind the engines? Where should I look and what should I look for?

If someone could pouint it out, I'd be most appreciative.....

Kind Regards,
"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
 
legoguy
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 8):
I'll give it a 5 out of 10

Any landing you walk away from is a good landing  Smile
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positiverate
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 2):
The thing i find somewhat strange is that the based carriers at Gatwick usually have the smoothest landings and its the non-based carriers that will have the more 'eventful' landings, something i noticed at Heathrow and Los Angeles as well.

See, I think that makes tremendous sense. If you're based at the airport, or its a hub airport that you fly through a lot, you're going to have more experience with the subtle nuances at the airport.

For example, in Atlanta, there's a Ford plant right at the arrival end of rwy. 26R. I have been told by pilots that, when you get over the plant, you usually get an updraft that will cause you to balloon a little bit and can make you land a little long, so a power correction needs to be made. That's the kind of subtle nuance that a pilot who regularly flies into the airport will know.
 
Western737
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:53 pm

Yeah, it seems not too bad. I have seen harder landing of Eastern Airlines 727-2 at DCA. I am sure some of you guys already seen the much harder landing video of MD-80 enough to lose thier whole tail end.
 
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Vasu
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:55 pm

Very good video... thanks for sharing!
 
cloudyapple
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Reverse thrust - Look at where the terminal is in relation to the aircraft and runway.

What is the point of using reverse thrust to slow right down on the runway when you are heading the right way for the terminal and cannot exit the runway for another kilometre or so at the next RET? You only waste fuel and increases runway occupancy which may lead to the next arrival going around. The pilot was doing everything right. This is operational common sense.
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Qantas744er
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting EasternSon (Reply 24):
Sorry, maybe a stupid question, but where should I look to see if the T/R are deployed?

On most engines, you will se a part of the engine slide back, and make a pretty big air crack around the whole engine,at this is were the thrust is reversed.

Cheers Leo
Happiness is V1 in Lagos
 
A340600
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:14 am

The 767's are hard landers normally, that must have been especially felt!

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
visityyj
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting MSYYZ (Thread starter):
A Zoom B767 scary landing at Manchester .

If you think that was either 'scary' or 'very hard', you could probably get a job as a Toronto Star reporter Big grin
 
c172heavy
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:25 am

EasternSon, look at the engines themselves, at about the midpoint. You should see "doors" open, creating what appears as a black band around the engine. If you can hear the engines they will increase in pitch as power is added.

Here is a picture from the database of a 767 with thrusters deployed:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Warren Williams

"How's that working out for ya?....Bein' clever?"
 
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litz
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 16):
Regarding reverse thrust, a lot of airlines are not using reverse thrust nowadays. How much fuel is used and could a lack of reverse thrust save on fuel bills?

The better question is ... assuming you need to stop by marker X, which costs more? The wear on the brakes, or the fuel used (and wear caused by) the TRs ?

With oil @ $70/bbl, the answer is increasingly becoming brakes ...

Lots and lots of my recent DL flights, you see the TRs deploy, but the engines never leave idle (I assume this is to simply remove any forward thrust), and hard HARD braking.

- litz
 
BAtriple7
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:34 am

My guess is the pax didn't even think it was a particularly hard landing, and that it didn't feel like a hard landing. Looks perfectly normal to me, the bounce is the only thing which doesn't happen on every landing, but not a problem anyway.

I love the blue liver though! From a distance you could mistake it for a BMI 330...
 
EasternSon
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:36 am

Thanks C172,

I have seen the "clamshell" T/Rs used on smaller aircraft, but knew these type weren't used on the big boys.

Much more clear, thanks so much....
"The only people for me are the mad ones...." Jack Kerouac
 
GatwickA320
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:10 am

For some reason the 767 always feels like a hard landing even when it's smooth. Is the suspension of the 767ER toughened? I notice the 767's undercarriage is angled forward where the 777 is angled backwards. I wonder if this has any effect on how the landing "feels" to those on board.

Still, the flare on that video was interesting - those pax must have felt it!
 
Demoose
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:17 am

Just remembered the last time I flew on the 763ER way back in 1998 the landing was really hard, loads of overhead bins opened when we slammed onto the runway at MAN.
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
vegas005
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:32 am

Flare was late...no ground effect..hard landing..not text book but not bad either.
 
ragousis
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:00 am

Wow, alot of wannabe pilots here very quick to give their uninformed opinions. That was nothing but a 100% safe landing. Yes it was a little hard, but like I said , normal. TR are not required and are not factored into the landing distance required. Man you guys sound like the media. Make a story out of nothing.
 
Boeing747_600
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:05 am

Looks like a very late flare followed by poor initial pitch control after TD. To their credit, they manage to recover from the initial nose wheel bounce and maintian a smooth rollout subsequently.

And I agree with the previous posts in that this is by no means amongst the worst or hardest of landings.
 
MD88Captain
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:22 am

BTW. The pitch up of the nose after landing was due to the autospoilers deploying. Autospoiler deployment on the 767-3 will cause the nose to pitch up if you are not ready for it. It is countered with a bit of forward yoke pressure and is something you don't even think about after a few 100 hours on the aircraft.
 
RomeoDelta
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:06 am

In the Ops Manuals I've read, in certain weather conditions (such as wind, which by the sound of the vid makes it seem it was windy that day), it is said that it is better to "get it down" rather than try for the smooth landing. While this was a bit of a "cruncher," it didn't seem all that bad. I've been through worse myself on Delta flights in rough conditions (first plane to land in ATL after TS Cindy passed through last year).
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:18 am

RICK767 welcome to my RU list. I've seen both the 757 and 767 and feel you. The 757 is a narrowbody. The 767 is a widebody meaning it has a higher sink rate than the 757. While its a great a/c I've seen scary landings at MCO. Especially those Delta ones with 767 upgraded pilots from the 757. Other than that, the 767 is an awesome a/c. Not critisczing DL here.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
philhyde
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting GatwickA320 (Reply 37):
For some reason the 767 always feels like a hard landing even when it's smooth. Is the suspension of the 767ER toughened? I notice the 767's undercarriage is angled forward where the 777 is angled backwards. I wonder if this has any effect on how the landing "feels" to those on board.

The "hardest" landing I've experienced was in a 767-400 on Continental. We were seated near the wing and landing gear, and there was a very loud "bang!" sound when we landed. Too me by surprise!
Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
 
positiverate
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 44):
Especially those Delta ones with 767 upgraded pilots from the 757. Other than that, the 767 is an awesome a/c. Not critisczing DL here.

DL pilots don't "upgrade" from the 757 to the 767. The airplane is one category, and a typical 757/767 pilot may fly the 757 on one leg, then a 767 on the other. The 767-400 is a different category, but even then not such a big deal.
 
jetflyer
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:07 am

Funny. My smoothest landing ever in a plane was on a 767-300ER.
 
skywatch
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 16):
Landing didn't seem to be too bad, well the second one was better

My thoughts exactly! Big grin I love how he puts the nose on the ground, then lifts it up again, as if to say "that was a little rough...let me take another whack at it!"

---Skywatch
------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
 
JAT74L
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RE: Zoom Airlines , Very Hard Landing ( Video )

Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:49 am

I've seem main gear bounce but never the main wheels stay put and the nose gear bounce!!

Looks pretty rough to me!

John
I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!