klmcedric
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:43 pm

AFKL had a operational profit of 936M Euros for 2005/2006. Those 936 can be
divided in 504million on KL's behalf and 432million for AF.
Because of the difference in size KLM's profitmargin(7,9%) is therefore almost
double that of AF's.

I wonder what KLM does so much better then Air France???
 
Checo77
Posts: 1263
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:39 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Thread starter):
I wonder what KLM does so much better then Air France???

They have a much better image than Air France and AMS is a much better airport.
This summer I am flying transatlantic and I wanted KLM. When I called them, they told me that KLM planes are VERY full this summer, and that AF planes are emptier. People just prefer fly KLM whenever they have the choice.
Adam
Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Thread starter):
KLM's profitmargin(7,9%) is therefore almost
double that of AF's.

I hope you also went for the KL profit related bonus in December  Wink ?

These are really good numbers, and in spite of some of the critics show we are doing the right thing.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
YULYMX
Posts: 734
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 pm

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:25 am

AF is operating in 2 Airports In Paris CDG and ORY that could be one reason
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Thread starter):
I wonder what KLM does so much better then Air France???

= Maybe because KLM is a FAR superior product than AF and AMS is a breeze compared to CDG?

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
klmcedric
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 2):
I hope you also went for the KL profit related bonus in December ?

No, I didn't, just something I don't trust about this whole thing!
 
777wt
Posts: 828
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:45 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:19 am

Maybe it's due to that KLM keeps their planes in bright blue while AF let's their white planes turn to greyish  Wink
 
keesje
Posts: 8864
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:15 am

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
runway23
Posts: 1926
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:07 am

Your title is not correct, Air France "makes" more money than KLM, as making money is judged on revenue. KLM's individual profits are higher though than AF.

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 4):
= Maybe because KLM is a FAR superior product than AF and AMS is a breeze compared to CDG?

I beg to defer. The KLM product is inferior to Air France on both European and International. KL's product becomes even worse compared to AF on Asian routes upfront.

I do agree though that AMS is by far superior to CDG and probably the most efficient hub in Europe.

I'd say the extra profit comes with the fact that KLM have a centralised hub operation (unlike AF who have their main hub in CDG and quite a few focus cities such as ORY, NCE, LYS, etc... which each come with a cost).

Also the fact that KLM seem to be able to fill their European routes much more efficiently than AF (probably due to the second's way higher prices in Y).
 
nwa757boy
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:10 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:18 am

Quoting Checo77 (Reply 1):
and AMS is a much better airport.

I'll second that, I had to run through CDG recently to make my connections, I had to use my inhaler (asthma) while waiting on the bus to go to the plane stand....and its not because I'm not fit...5'4 115lbs..maybe it was the stress about not making my flight...

In any event, I would think AFs image is superior to that of KL...AF may offer a slightly better product than KL, but KL is improving, esp. with their new 332s. And, who does not agree the blue uniforms for the flight attendants are amazing!  Smile okay anyhow enough pointless talk
 
flyingfool
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:28 pm

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 9):
but KL is improving, esp. with their new 332s

Sorry a bit off-topic, last night I was flying home from my holiday at Rhodes (Greece) and the flight was operated by a KLM A330-200 on behalf of Martinair and I really like this aircraft.
Ok, the economy seats are a bit cramped but the "whole thing" in terms of service, inflight entertainment FA attitude etc. was a very nice experience.

Rgds, Flyingfool
 
MaartenV
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:16 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:45 pm

I think that the main reason for KLM doing so well right now is Air France.

This proves that the merger was a good thing (at least so far) and that Air France has no reasons to abandon the KLM product on the short to medium term.
Its all about supply and demand...
 
blast
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:25 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:54 pm

KL has spent years reforming, restructuring, putting cost-cutting and efficiency measures through. These measures yield beautiful results.
Also, AMS is a super airport.
 
28thguy
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:45 pm

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:56 pm

Quoting NWA757boy (Reply 9):
Your title is not correct, Air France "makes" more money than KLM, as making money is judged on revenue. KLM's individual profits are higher though than AF.

Actually, "making money" refers to income, not revenue, in business terminology. Poster's title was correct.

I also will say that I think there are too many "corrections" going on around here.
 
KLMA330
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:37 pm

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:12 pm

People just love KLM. I'm half greek, and everyone in my extended family know and want to fly KLM when doing the YYZ-ATH. Planes in the summer are always PACKED, and one must book well in advance.

Maybe it's the blue colour, maybe it's that they've been there forever (or so it seems), and of course, AMS is one damn good airport!

Either way, Love'em myself  Smile
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2543
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:30 am

Has KLM retired their Fokker's yet? Being an older aircraft this would add significant maintenance costs so KLM should consider CRJ's or ERJ.

If AF wants to improve their balance sheet they should retire their remaining 747-200SUDs. If KL did why haven't they followed?  confused 
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
nwa757boy
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:10 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 15):
Has KLM retired their Fokker's yet? Being an older aircraft this would add significant maintenance costs so KLM should consider CRJ's or ERJ.

Last time I was in AMS (March 2006) the Fokkers were still going strong, I dont think they will retire them anytime soon, but of course I have nothing to base that on
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 4764
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 15):


KLM should consider CRJ's or ERJ.

Those types have seen thier heyday. The costs are hideous and if they replace the Fokkers it will be with a similar sized aircraft (E-190 anyone?) not smaller frames.
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
mindscape
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:28 pm

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting MaartenV (Reply 11):
think that the main reason for KLM doing so well right now is Air France.

Agree !
 
ba757
Posts: 2707
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:31 pm

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 15):
Has KLM retired their Fokker's yet?

I thought that they had just got more?

Adam
 
blast
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:25 am

KLM Makes More Money Than Air France!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:13 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 15):
Has KLM retired their Fokker's yet?

No, and they will not be replaced any time soon either! In fact, KL has been looking to purchase more of them during the past few years, especially the Fokker 70.