PPVRA
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B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:26 am

found this online:



Can't wait to see it fly.

Cheers all!

[Edited 2006-06-17 19:27:12]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
ikramerica
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:30 am

Me too!

That'll be one ugly mutha!!!! But still cool to see, especially when they swing the tail open.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
avroarrow
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:32 am

Wow, thats a big tube. I know these will run from Seattle to Japan, but where else do they intend to run them?
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
trex8
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 2):
I know these will run from Seattle to Japan, but where else do they intend to run them?

won't the Italian subassemblies need to be flown to the US and then from wherever it is in the southern US where the largest fuselage assembly is made from the Italian ones
 
m404
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:01 pm

As for the LCFs flying duties, here is a paragraph from the Boeing website.

The LCF fleet will ferry 787 wings and fuselage parts from partners in Wichita, Kan.; Charleston, S.C.; Grottaglie, Italy; and Nagoya, Japan, to Boeing's Everett factory for final assembly. A cargo loader will be based at each facility. The first loader, and a second to be completed this month, will be disassembled and delivered by ship to Nagoya and Grottaglie for reassembly.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
final47
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:07 pm

holy cow! that's asome ! .... oh boeing you continue to surprise me ~ Smile
 
khenleydia
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:37 pm

I wish Boeing would post more as that picture is from a while ago. It will be a something to see when that thing flies!

KhenleyDIA
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centrair
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:10 pm

Can't wait to see this thing at NGO. We have a chance for A380F from Fedex, 7478F from All Nippon Cargo, but before those we will get this big mother picking up 787 parts.

What is the estimated date of completion for this first bird...pterodactyl.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
mham001
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:22 am

Boeings worst nightmare is that these things stay grounded for one reason or another. They are betting the company on these three planes. What would be their backup plan to transport from NC to Seattle?
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:31 am

The mighty B747 continues the mighty rule.
 
A350
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:39 am

Does anybody know the dimensions of the cargo hold? I wonder if it can ferry A380 parts  duck 

A350
 
Lumberton
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pi

Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting A350 (Reply 10):
Does anybody know the dimensions of the cargo hold? I wonder if it can ferry A380 parts

Probably not, but it would probably work for the next iteration of the A350/A370....

[Edited 2006-06-18 17:41:34]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ikramerica
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 8):
Boeings worst nightmare is that these things stay grounded for one reason or another. They are betting the company on these three planes. What would be their backup plan to transport from NC to Seattle?

I doubt they would do this project without plans in place for when they only have 2 out of 3 available, etc. And with production increases planned, expect the family to grow to 5 jets.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
mham001
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):

I doubt they would do this project without plans in place for when they only have 2 out of 3 available, etc. And with production increases planned, expect the family to grow to 5 jets.

One loss of one plane is easily worked around, what about the grounding of the entire fleet for some unforseen problem?
 
flyingdoctorwu
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:48 am

What is the range of one of those suckers?

And how many Belugas does Airbus depend on?

These LCF seem to be quite an integral part of the global Boeing 787 network.. hope everything goes off without a hitch!
 
A350
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 13):
One loss of one plane is easily worked around, what about the grounding of the entire fleet for some unforseen problem?



Quoting FlyingDoctorWu (Reply 14):

And how many Belugas does Airbus depend on?

A grounding of the entire fleet is a nightmare for both A and B, and I think it's a strong demotivation for Airbus to replace their Belugas anytime soon. BTW, how long did Airbus keep their Super Guppies after the Belugas came?

A350
 
EI321
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:36 am

Looks great. It will have more capacity than a Beluga or AN124, right? And how does it compare to those in terms of max payload? Will Boeing charter it out on occasions?
 
ikramerica
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 13):
One loss of one plane is easily worked around, what about the grounding of the entire fleet for some unforseen problem?

And the likelihood of that is so remote, it's like saying "what happened if the factory burned down?"

You can't plan for catastrophe, and I don't have any understanding of WHY you think the whole fleet would be grounded for any length of time other than trying to find a negative in the project...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
9252fly
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:43 am

I wonder if Fedex and UPS could make use of this aircraft?
 
trex8
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 18):
I wonder if Fedex and UPS could make use of this aircraft?

nah, no customer could drop off a package that big! Smile
but maybe NASA or the Air Force could?
 
Leezyjet
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 16):
It will have more capacity than a Beluga or AN124, right? And how does it compare to those in terms of max payload?

Could possibly have more volume than both the Beluga and AN124, will certainly have a payload/MTOW greater than the Beluga, but would have thought the AN124 has a higher payload/MTOW.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:39 pm

I had asked a question on this forum as to why these monster transporters designed by A and B are not offered as commercial cargo aircraft.....answer was that they are not suitable for regular cargo ops....

In that case, why don't A and B just opt for surface transport or sea transport for their huge parts..? One obvious answer is the time factor, but won't that be offset by the considerable savings from avoiding building of these huge transporters?
 
NYC777
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:36 am

Well this is an old picture which was released by Boeing earlier this spring.

The first airplane should be (By Boeing's estimates) close to be ing finished by now and should be flying within the next 8 weeks (Boeig said this summer). Who knows and Boeing might decide to surprise everyone and have it fly past Farnbourogh next month if it's ready. That would be totally cool! Maybe even park it next to the A380.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
ikramerica
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 21):
why don't A and B just opt for surface transport or sea transport for their huge parts

time.

and no, the cost is not offset. Look at how costly it is for Airbus to transport A380 sections via surface, constantly paying fees to close down roads, building special road transports for all the pieces, etc.

It's expensive to move the stuff no matter what. The 747LCF gives them more flexibility because it allows Boeing to choose suppliers from all over the globe as long as they have a 14000 airstrip nearby.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:58 am

The crossection of the B-747-400LCF is suppose to be wider and taller than the A-300-600F Bulga. So, maybe Boeing can ship some A-380 barrel sections for Airbus.

BTW, Boeing has been considering adding 2-3 additional airplanes to the LCF fleet, bring the total to 4-6 airplanes. Airbus maintanes a fleet of 7 A-300-600F Bulgas.
 
mush
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 24):
BTW, Boeing has been considering adding 2-3 additional airplanes to the LCF fleet, bring the total to 4-6 airplanes. Airbus maintanes a fleet of 7 A-300-600F Bulgas.

I would have thought that Airbus had less than that. One would think that the stage length of the Belugas is shorter than the LCF will be meaning they could make more turns per day. Does anybody know the optimization of the Belugas (how many hours do they spend in the air)?

Thanks,
mush
Sprung from cages out on highway 9
 
2H4
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:42 am



...And in terms of AOG/mechanical downtime, Boeing can get parts and support from..........Boeing! Something tells me those issues will be handled rather seamlessly as a result.




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
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litz
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:55 am

These parts, remember, are going to be large enough that any kind of land transport would be rather difficult.

The 737 sections transported by rail all travel as "High/Wide" railroad loads, and require extra special care in terms of planning due to width and height restrictions.

For instance, ANY bridge they go over, they have to go at 5 mph, with the engineer and conductor watching behind the engines to ensure proper clearance.

(That in itself is a pretty funny regulation, as these trains have 5-6 engines and you can't even see the loads anymore once 1-2 engines are stretched around a curve or bridge)

Not to mention the routing changes that have to take place to ensure they don't go through any tunnels, bridges, etc the loads won't fit through.

Now expand that cargo size to something the size of a 787 fuselage.

Instant headache ...

On an airlift alternative ... if Boeing got the US Military involved, would these sections fit in C-130 or C-5 aircraft?

If they would fit, I'm sure in a pinch, a deal could be worked out for the airlift wings to get some flight practice in w/boeing picking up the fuel costs ... or somesuch ...

- litz
 
redflyer
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
14000 airstrip nearby

Ikramerica, that is a pretty long airstrip. Is that what is required for the LCF fully loaded? How many airports have 14000 feet of runway?
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texfly101
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pi

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 8):
Boeings worst nightmare is that these things stay grounded for one reason or another. They are betting the company on these three planes. What would be their backup plan to transport from NC to Seattle?

The new dock and associated railroad spur that is being built in Everett as a part of the 787 governmental approval package is sized to handle large assemblies. It is designed to not be sized constrained like the existing railroad spur that has time and size constraints. When it was proposed, it came with the stipulation that it wasn't contigent on 787 approval as Boeing wanted it to be able to ship any assembly they needed to and not have problems with getting it up the hill and into the factory.
This all was a very public decision that had to have approval of not only the environmental agencies but also the Indian tribes who have fishing rights to the areas affected. As a consequence, there was a series of mitigation projects that Boeing funded to enhance the near shore environments in the area. Boeing also is paying for the dock and railroad improvements also.
 
dw747400
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 27):

On an airlift alternative ... if Boeing got the US Military involved, would these sections fit in C-130 or C-5 aircraft?

It is more likely you could fit a C-130 fuselage into a 787!

As for the C-5, I believe that it would be close but not quite large enough. Either way, the military generally doesn't take its assets out of service for long periods to support private companies.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
siromega
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 18):
I wonder if Fedex and UPS could make use of this aircraft?

The hold is not pressurized or temperature controlled, which means freight companies would avoid it.
 
NYC777
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:09 am

Does anyone know when the first LCF isdue to be rolled out?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
texfly101
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 30):
As for the C-5, I believe that it would be close but not quite large enough. Either way, the military generally doesn't take its assets out of service for long periods to support private companies.

Actually, the military is legally blocked from helping private companies with military assets. Using tax payers dollars to help private, for profit, corporations is a no-no. Senator McCain has built both a reputation and a presidential campaign base on this with the "No Tanker Bail Out for Boeing" campaign he so successfully waged.
 
dw747400
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting Texfly101 (Reply 33):

I believe you are correct, which is why I left that intentionally vague. The military does occasionally use assets to support civilian activities (office of public affairs works on coordinating military equipment with production studios in some situations). However, I can't recall any specific operation undertaken by a private company and not related to a government contract that used a military transport.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
brendows
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RE: B747LCF - 787 Transporter Modification Line Pics!

Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:54 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 32):
Does anyone know when the first LCF isdue to be rolled out?

First flight will be in August IIRC, and I guess the middle of July is a good guess then  Smile

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