NWDC10
Topic Author
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AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:38 am

With AS and QX in California and with the delivery of 12 more Q400's, do you also think that QX really want's to become a stronger competitor in the California market? With the great service of QX, i believe they will use most of the Q400's in the California market and they do have confidence to compete against AEagle and UAX and being a very tough competitor they can even compete against WN. So i expect MAJOR QX service in California. Robert NWDC10
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:09 am

QX already has plans for some additional CA service such as STS and SCK/MOD. I'll be curious to see if QX significantly adds service between LAX and the Central Valley. But do they have room at LAX to have such an expansion?

Also, could QX be replacing their CR7 service with Q400's on AS and move all of the CR7's to Frontier?
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:27 am

I think you will see a lot of growth for QX in CA in the next 5 years.
Two important things that the airgroup has to get a handle on are
Q400 reliability and the facilities at LAX.
The AS/QX operation at LAX has huge potential, but something needs
to be done about the current setup.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:41 am

Does the Q400's have low-enough operating costs to warrant inter-California flights...even with WN being a competitor?
 
LAXintl
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:28 am

QX seems to be taking an approach of connecting some smaller long neglected markets in California.

Quoting NWDC10 (Thread starter):
compete against AEagle and UAX

QX even if it operated in some similar city pairs with AE & UAX would not really be competing perse as those carriers primarily operate to serve as feed for the mainline operation, while QX intra California flying targets primarily O&D demand.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 3):
Does the Q400's have low-enough operating costs to warrant inter-California flights...even with WN being a competitor?

According to DOT stats, the Horizon Q400 block hour operating cost was $1998 or $27 per seat, while SWA 733 hourly block cost was $2402 or $17.50 seat.

While the 733 does have a speed advantage such advantages are not as great on shorter <1hr legs. In addition as fuel cost remain high the per seat cost of the Q400 narrows over the 733 as it uses mere 320gals per hour on average versus 775gals for the SWA 733.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
roseflyer
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 3):
Does the Q400's have low-enough operating costs to warrant inter-California flights...even with WN being a competitor?

I don't think we'll see QX competing against Southwest much. Southwest is huge between the Bay Area and LA Basin. I don't expect QX to take on those routes. However there are many other destinations that WN does not serve that have potential in the Southwest.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
DesertAir
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:21 am

Horizon just announced service from Santa Rosa to LAX. Santa Rosa is in the Russian River Area north of San Francisco in Sonoma County. I think there is a lot of room for QX expansion especially in the underserved markets. Driving to the large airports is becoming more time consuming as California freeways become more crowed.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
I don't think we'll see QX competing against Southwest much. Southwest is huge between the Bay Area and LA Basin. I don't expect QX to take on those routes. However there are many other destinations that WN does not serve that have potential in the Southwest.

You're probably right. I don't QX would want to chance getting slaughtered in the SFO-LAX markets. But they do compete head-to-head on RNO-LAX.

Anyway, I could see QX flying to MRY, SCK, FAT, BFL to LAX. Perhaps we could also see SBA, SBP, OXN and Santa Maria to LAX. But could those communities support several Q400's? What would be really cool would be CCR-LAX with Q400's. Do you think the Concord community would allow that?

Do you think current GA airports in the Bay Area would entertain the idea of having limited commercial service like Livermore, Vallejo, Napa or Hayward?
 
DesertAir
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:58 am

QX could have a decent business in Stockton. From another thread, Allegiant began their first flight between Stocton and Las Vegas. This will be 3x a week service. Bookings are strong for the next three months. As most of you have said, QX does not need to take one WN but serve smaller markets in need of service. With California freeway congestion becoming worse each year, driving to the larger airports is expensive...the time it takes, the price of gas and parking. With decent prices and service levels, QX could establish themsleves as a Central Valley airline.
SCK is about a 45 minute drive from SMF. Fresno is two hours away. During the winter dense fog sets in which would make the trip slow and dangerous. OAK is about 70 miles but freeway congestion, the price of gas and parking make it almost less expensive and faster to drive down I-5 to Los Angeles.
 
HPRamper
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:18 am

Could LAX-YUM work?

I don't know why I brought that up, just throwing it out there  Smile
 
nonfirm
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
could QX be replacing their CR7 service with Q400's on AS and move all of the CR7's to Frontier?

This would not work for SFO no turboprops allowed at the gate plus i hear QX wants to bring their own maintenance crew into lax.
 airplane 
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:46 pm

Since AA Eagle is leaving their "Satellite" terminal at LAX, QX could use it. Unless, of course, they're tearing it down...or already have torn it down.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:17 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
Also, could QX be replacing their CR7 service with Q400's on AS and move all of the CR7's to Frontier?

In California or as a whole?

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
I'll be curious to see if QX significantly adds service between LAX and the Central Valley

LAX and the Central Valley would make a great pair.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
I don't think we'll see QX competing against Southwest much. Southwest is huge between the Bay Area and LA Basin. I don't expect QX to take on those routes. However there are many other destinations that WN does not serve that have potential in the Southwest.

Yes the WN presence in OAK and SJC are great! But, QX could possibly pull off an OAK-LAX flight. QX service is to great of service, in my non bias opinion  Wink, to pass up. Buisness men and women would, I think, chose the QX service over WN.

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 8):
QX could establish themsleves as a Central Valley airline.
SCK is about a 45 minute drive from SMF. Fresno is two hours away.

Yes SCK, FAT is a dream. I said in another post that I asked leaders that came down from SEA to talk to us if we could expect an QX service to LAX anytime soon and they said no. Hopefully things have changed. Question, is the Q400 CATIII certified? I know the CRJ's are.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
Anyway, I could see QX flying to MRY, SCK, FAT, BFL to LAX.

San Luis into that maybe? BFL would be a much later addition I would think. FAT and MRY would be my first two choices.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
AAflyguy
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:19 pm

PSP isn't being represented in this CA mixer. The year-round PSP-SMF trip is one of the most profitable routes the airline operates. It was initially operated seasonally (from Jan '02), and was the first Intra-California route ever for the company. QX is extremely pleased with the performance, and have said so on numerous occasions. With the additional dozen Q400's starting to arrive at the end of the year, expect to see them add a mix of seasonal and year-round service from PSP in '07. The PSP market can tap into both the tourism industry and the growing population. And so much traffic is lost to ONT annually (to LAS, OAK, SJC) that there's lots of potential to recapture from the existing market. Three pools from which to draw demand and traffic, and funnel tons more passengers through PSP as a result.
 
NWDC10
Topic Author
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:50 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 12):
Yes the WN presence in OAK and SJC are great! But, QX could possibly pull off an OAK-LAX flight. QX service is to great of service, in my non bias opinion Wink, to pass up. Buisness men and women would, I think, chose the QX service over WN.

This is what i was saying in other posts. QX has great service and not many can compete against WN. But QX can compete against WN. That's how good QX is. Look at SEA-GEG. Whos the dominant carrier? And as i mentioned earlier, i'd be affraid to compete against QX if i owned an airline. Robert NWDC10
 
flyboy7974
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RE: AS/QX In California

Sun Jun 18, 2006 5:15 pm

Difference as always between reality and dreams. I don't ever envision Horizon operating their Dash-8-400s on LAX-SBA/OXR (I think that's what you meant)/FAT/PSP or other cities that are already saturated or other airlines have simply just discontinued, such as AA Eagle and the PSP-LAX run. Horizon has teased SWA by playing around all of their markets (except for RNO which they took over from AS) by touching down in surrounding communities to SWA major players. I would like to see Horizon retap the CCR market that has been ignored since PSA was taken over by USAir. Hit up the bay area again without dancing with SWA in OAK or having to put up with the SFO b/s that no props are allowed into the gates. I think AS and Horizon should give SFO the finger really, and say yes, our props will come into here, or else, kiss my ass.

As for the Q400, I prefer the a/c over the CRJ anyday. When block times compare quite evenly, I think it was mentioned that Horizon only loses 7 minutes to the hour between a/c, I would book the Q400 over the CRJ. As for other markets, I don't see Horizon saturating markets where they are doing fine with just a flight or two already. I would like to see new doors open, how about Horizon jumping into the COS market and flying nonstop into LAX. Or with the specs on that plane and how well it does perform, let's hit up some mountain communities such as Aspen or Lake Tahoe where the Q400 would out perform it jet counterparts. I can see smaller communities like those becoming user friendly when offered service by Horizon's Q400 a/c and excellent on board service.

I would like to see or wish one of the aviation firms put out stats on Horizon and route analysis and comparisons of load percentages versus profits versus overall top performers. Every quarter the Boyd group releases this info for the top 10 airlines and it shows every route and how many pax and average fares, but the commuters would be interesting to see.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:17 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 11):
Since AA Eagle is leaving their "Satellite" terminal at LAX, QX could use it. Unless, of course, they're tearing it down...or already have torn it down.

It will be torn down as part of taxiway redesign and the eventual recently approved midfield satellite terminal.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
flypdx
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:18 am

A bit off topic, but is eagle getting a new terminal at LAX?
 
OH-LGA
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting Nonfirm (Reply 10):
This would not work for SFO no turboprops allowed at the gate plus i hear QX wants to bring their own maintenance crew into lax.

Turboprops are allowed at the gate in SFO now. The Commuter Terminal has been inoperational since February 2006, all UAX EMB's are operating from gates 76A-79 and 87A (converted to an aircraft stand from a shuttle bus stop) at the main United terminal.
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 17):
A bit off topic, but is eagle getting a new terminal at LAX?

This was touched on a few weeks back insides and other topic. The short answer at the moment is no.

Actually AA's entire LAX property presence will shrink dramatically in the coming years as its entire maintenance facilities, (low bay, super bay and ex TWA hangar) all will get torn down to construct the recently approved mid-field satellite concourse. The airport master plan does not call for any replacement hangarage facilities.

It will be somewhat interesting to see if AA keeps its West Coast AE operation once the small terminal gets bulldozed. I suppose AA could run the ops from mainline T-4 gates, however that would have a serious impact on its overall terminal capacity and mainline activity.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FATFlyer
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 12):
Yes SCK, FAT is a dream. I said in another post that I asked leaders that came down from SEA to talk to us if we could expect an QX service to LAX anytime soon and they said no.

I first heard rumors of a QX buildup back when Horizon started in Fresno years ago. FAT was a possible then. But routes and strategy take a long time. Look how long it was between when I first heard the rumor and when they finally started adding routes.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 12):
Question, is the Q400 CATIII certified?

I believe the entire QX fleet including the Q400 is CATIII. Perfect for FAT-LAX since Fresno's CATIII system would allow QX to get in and out when everyone else is grounded due to fog.

Quoting Flyboy7974 (Reply 15):
how about Horizon jumping into the COS market and flying nonstop into LAX.

Is there enough traffic? UAX has, what?, 3 or 4 RJs on the route already.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
san747
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
Do you think current GA airports in the Bay Area would entertain the idea of having limited commercial service like Livermore, Vallejo, Napa or Hayward?

I like that idea... There are a lot of airports throughout CA that could use service, but don't get any... HMT (Hemet) is a perfect example. It has no service of any kind but is within a 45-minute drive of over 300,000 people... I think it could at LEAST support a service to LAX or something...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:24 am

If QX were to bring in a mx crew into LAX, would it be possible to see some of the Q200's based at LAX?
 
NWDC10
Topic Author
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 22):
If QX were to bring in a mx crew into LAX, would it be possible to see some of the Q200's based at LAX?

They could but what i understand QX want's to sell "some" Q200's and replace them with Q400's. The Q200's are still good aircraft and they can make some money from them. Maybe QX will lease them out to someone. And as i type, i hear a Q200 fly over. It has a distinct sound. But i know the sound of the Q400's too. In my opinion, QX made the best choice when they bought the Q200's and especially the Q400's. Robert NWDC10
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:45 am

Well, not too many Q200's fly over my place unless they depart to the south. But I could see QX using Q200's on some of the shorter, thinner routes like MOD and VIS.

I would also love to see QX fly to TVL and MMH during the ski seasons.

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 6):
Horizon just announced service from Santa Rosa to LAX.

I heard also that QX will be flying STS-SEA...I believe.
 
Leneld
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RE: AS/QX In California

Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:09 am

Hopefully Horizon will be doing some expansion out of PDX too..................
 
AAflyguy
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RE: AS/QX In California

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:26 am

HMT is but a 35min drive from PSP, and about the same from ONT, depending on traffic (could be much longer at times). I honestly cannot see that community getting service, to LAX or otherwise, when there are other commercial airports so closeby. It is growing rapidly, yes, as is Temecula as well as Murrieta. But I see Hemet and the communities in the San Gorgonio Pass (Banning/Beaumont/Calimesa/Yucaipa), all of which are building up, playing a key role in PSP's long-term growth, because as the traffic worsens going west on I-10 to ONT/LAX/LGB/SNA/BUR and south on I-15 to SAN, I believe PSP will rise in desirability. Typically, freeway traffic going east into the desert is not an issue, unless it's a Fri aft/eve, when thousands of cars are headed inland filled with weekend Sun & Fun seekers.
 
shane
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RE: AS/QX In California

Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:51 am

Maybe QX is the airline that can do CLD-SFO. Skywest sure doesn't seem to want it...
 
AirlineBrat
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RE: AS/QX In California

Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:18 pm

I would love to see QX start serving the Bay Area from ACV and RDD. Perhaps OAK where we can connect to Jet Blue and WN (hint.... hint). UA Express is down to 6 flights a day from ACV to SFO. There used to be at least 12 flights a day. I am not sure what the flight schedule from RDD to SFO was historically but there are currently 6 a day. $50-75 each way and I bet the Q-400's will have loads like the new flights down to LAX.
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
briguy1974
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RE: AS/QX In California

Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:59 pm

QX flys a RDD ACV route...not sure what the loads are like. QX could fly ACV to SFO with the Q400's or the 200's and not suffer from the same weight issues that OO deals with on the same route. OO sends out ACV flights restricted down to 25 pax in the winter months due to extra fuel carried on the emb 120's.
I also think there could be a market between Concord CA and LAX. PSA served this route and I would like to see it started again. QX would be a great fit into the LAX expansion plans...
 
AirlineBrat
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RE: AS/QX In California

Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:41 pm

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 29):
QX flys a RDD ACV route...not sure what the loads are like. QX could fly ACV to SFO with the Q400's or the 200's and not suffer from the same weight issues that OO deals with on the same route. OO sends out ACV flights restricted down to 25 pax in the winter months due to extra fuel carried on the emb 120's.

Yes, QX flies two flights a day from ACV and RDD to LAX. The QX Q-400's fly SEA-PDX-RDD-ACV-LAX-RDD-ACV (RON at ACV) then go ACV-RDD-LAX-ACV-RDD-PDX-SEA the next day.

I have sat at the gate in SFO watching an OO EMB-120 leave for ACV with 11 empty seats with me and several other passengers remaining at the gate...... all due to bad WX and OO wanting enough fuel to return to SFO if need be. Where are the CRJ's at this point? Flying SFO-PDX or SFO-EUG when those should be mainline aircraft?
I'm leavin on a jet plane. Don't know when I'll be back again....
 
RNOcommctr
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RE: AS/QX In California

Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:10 am

FYI, about a month ago QX started RNO-PDX service, although with just one flight a day. They go head-to-head with WN on this route.
Active loading only, ma'am, keep it moving!