bmacleod
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Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:39 pm

With their desperate financial position, it seems highly illogical for DL to hold on to fuel-hungry aircraft like 737-200s when they have an ample supply of newer 737-800s.

Some of their older MD-88s gulp down lots of fuel too. Sad to see the 767-200s go....

[Edited 2006-06-20 16:45:02]
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
jbmitt
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:45 pm

ample supply of 737-8?

Ha.. Delta has gotten rid of 100+ mainline planes in the last 5 years with the 727, 737-300's, MD-11's, and the L1011. If they get rid of the 737 and the MD88 they will have 767's and 757's and a slew of regional jets.

Expect them to order planes when they have positive profits, and have emerged from bankruptcy. For the time being, affordable planes that use more gas are just as good as expensive new jets with lower gas. You are correct that the cost of fuel will force them to look towards newer aircraft.
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:30 am

They renegotiated the leases to something insanely cheap (like $15k/month, IIRC) and don't have anything comparable to replace them with. The 738s have 50% more capacity than the 732s and the crews get paid more. The MD-88s are slightly closer in capacity but still have 42 more seats. Expect an eventual E190/E195 order as a 100-seat replacement.

I think there are 17 732s left, and Whitehurst has said they'll all be gone by September.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:32 am

The search engine is a good friend, as this has been discussed to death, most recently here:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2807335/
 
avconsultant
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
The search engine is a good friend, as this has been discussed to death, most recently here:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...7335/

Well said!!
 
airmailer
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 2):
Expect an eventual E190/E195 order as a 100-seat replacement.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Please don't do that!!
737-600 before one of those things!.

(I like the concept of an overhead bin that my carry-on can actually fit into.)

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 2):
I think there are 17 732s left, and Whitehurst has said they'll all be gone by September.

 checkmark 

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1):
Expect them to order planes when they have positive profits

They actually have 50 738s on order already, expect them to start taking delivery instead of selling them off, once they have profits.
 
jbmitt
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:13 am

I know that they have 738's on order, and 75+ in the fleet. I was saying that they need the 732's flying, because there are not enough 738's. They are short on mainline craft.

They still need a 100 seat plane.. thats the role of the 732.

[Edited 2006-06-20 19:14:36]
 
bmacleod
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1):
I think there are 17 732s left, and Whitehurst has said they'll all be gone by September.

DL website says 32 732s but maybe only half are in operation.
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
 
MrMcCoy
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:19 am

I can't beleive this thread has re-surfaced AGAIN. Annie, get my gun! Big grin

Hoenstly, it's simple. These aircraft are still economically profitable on the routes DL uses them on. Why burn off another $50 mil in cash on newer equipment? The cost-benefit on fuel economy wouldn't be realized for years anyway..

Delta's not going to hold them forever, but why would anyone want ot rush the B732 out of scheduled domestic US service? They are the queens of the sky! Admittedly, it was kind of weird to taxi past a B732 in our 757 in Atlanta a few weeks ago.. Knowing what it was, I still couldn't help doing a double-take.
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:20 am

Noooo! I love those 732s!

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avconsultant
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 5):
737-600 before one of those things!.

DL could recieve 2 EMB for the price of the 737-600. That's an expensive aircraft.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 10):
DL could recieve 2 EMB for the price of the 737-600. That's an expensive aircraft.

Not only that, but it also is a very heavy aircraft as well, and doesn't really offer too many advantages over its next largest sibling, the 73G. Same with the A318: Both are pretty much "bastards" with very few orders that were only launched because it didn't cost too much to develop them.
There's a reason why DL was planning to replace their DLX 732s with 73Gs and not 736s (that was prior to 9-11, plan for 45 73Gs, obviously got cancelled after the attacks).
 
fraspotter
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 9):
Noooo! I love those 732s!

Relax, if you like the 732 so much (I personally have never flown on one that I can remember), just go to Africa where they are in ample supply...  Wink
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
Evan767
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:02 am

Will these possible future EMB's be operated by Delta or a Delta Connection carrier like Freedom Air which already operates the 170's. It should be Delta......right?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 13):
Will these possible future EMB's be operated by Delta or a Delta Connection carrier like Freedom Air which already operates the 170's. It should be Delta......right?

The new DL pilot contract scope clause limits Connection carriers to 76 seats starting in 2007 (and has restrictions on the numbers of 76-seaters the regionals can fly). E190s and E195s have to be mainline, and the new contract has rates for flying both types.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
skibum9
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting MrMcCoy (Reply 8):
I can't beleive this thread has re-surfaced AGAIN. Annie, get my gun!

Why would this surprise you? A new NW DC9 thread is started about daily!
Tailwinds!!!
 
ptharris
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:00 am

Quoting MrMcCoy (Reply 8):
Knowing what it was, I still couldn't help doing a double-take.

No kidding. I was connecting in Cinncinatti and we were taxiing to the gate while in a 737-800 and I was looking out the window and noticed the 732's parked at the gate. I thought to myself, "Why the hell are they holding on to those birds? They canned the 727's, why not have these follow? Fuel must be cheaper here I guess."

It'll be hard to replace them, but it makes sense the replacement would be the EMB-170/190. The 732's are little rocket ships and still loud even with hush kits.  Big grin Sure will miss them when they're gone.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:13 am

I am surprised that the 733 was removed before the 732, but I suppose it boiled down to the 732's smaller capacity, which was desired - while the MD-88s and 738s can replace the 733s for the most part. Was it capacity as I suspect?
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
Evan767
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 14):
The new DL pilot contract scope clause limits Connection carriers to 76 seats starting in 2007 (and has restrictions on the numbers of 76-seaters the regionals can fly). E190s and E195s have to be mainline, and the new contract has rates for flying both types.

Awesome. So that means RIC shouldn't become a Comair Station or anything.

[Edited 2006-06-21 04:15:47]
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
FriendlySkies
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:16 am

It's nice to see the 732 comin into GSP on my way back from work...though I don't understand why DL flies MD80s and 737s here when everyone else (including DL) flies RJs...those jets can't possibly be full.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 16):
and noticed the 732's parked at the gate. I thought to myself, "Why the hell are they holding on to those birds? They canned the 727's, why not have these follow?

I actually like the 732, the 2ABCD seats are nice.

As for your comments on them, DL needs them IMHO. DL has been hemorraging mainline aircraft much faster than the de-hubbing of DFW and increased aircraft utilization practices.

DL has dropped the 733s, 762s, 732s (in progress), MD-11, 727s, L10's, 4 763s (lease rejections), all in less than 5 years with much less metal coming in.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
deltairlines
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting B4real (Reply 20):
I actually like the 732, the 2ABCD seats are nice.

I was never a fan of the F seats on the 732s though...the old style F seats on the M80s/763s were a lot more comfortable in my opinion.

Though the 732s had one of my favourite coach seats in the world, 16A/F, as there was no 15A/F. Now, it's down to 11/12 F/G on the 764 (about 40 inches of legroom) and 27A/G on the 763 (no 26A/G)...

Jeff
 
B4REAL
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 21):
Though the 732s had one of my favourite coach seats in the world, 16A/F, as there was no 15A/F

I also like 15 B/E for the same reason.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:30 pm

No $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
twal1011727
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 7):
Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 1):
I think there are 17 732s left, and Whitehurst has said they'll all be gone by September.


DL website says 32 732s but maybe only half are in operation.

Bmacleod is correct. DL has 17 left in service. Although they have retired alot of them,they still show on their A/C routing index. Most probably they haven't been officially turned over to another company yet. The most accurate data that I found was last updated on 01JUN06. It shows 18 left but doesn't show ship 306 that was retired on 02JUN. I bet this is updated on a monthly basis.

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 16):
I thought to myself, "Why the hell are they holding on to those birds? They canned the 727's, why not have these follow? Fuel must be cheaper here I guess."

The B727 was a 3 pilot/3 engine/149 pax/ gas hog that was destined to be retired.They were replaced with the B737-800....As stated earlier, DL has a good lease rate for the B737-200 birds.

KD MLB
 
avconsultant
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:33 pm

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 19):
It's nice to see the 732 comin into GSP on my way back from work...though I don't understand why DL flies MD80s and 737s here when everyone else (including DL) flies RJs...those jets can't possibly be full.

4 - 5 years ago GSP was a very profitable city for DL. GSP is one of those regional cities with allegience to a single carrier. SAV, CAE, CHS, BHM, PNS, MOB, GSO are big DL markets with comeptition. Very simialr to NW in the Dakota's or United in DSM. This would probably make an interesting thread comparing the different markets to a single carrier.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:40 pm

Quoting Bmacleod (Thread starter):
With their desperate financial position, it seems highly illogical for DL to hold on to fuel-hungry aircraft like 737-200s when they have an ample supply of newer 737-800s.

Some of their older MD-88s gulp down lots of fuel too. Sad to see the 767-200s go....

The simple fact is:

It is cheaper to hold onto a fuel guzzler that is paid for than to fork out $57million in one wack per copy for an airliner.
One Nation Under God
 
B4REAL
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 26):
t is cheaper to hold onto a fuel guzzler that is paid for than to fork out $57million in one wack per copy for an airliner.

Yes, especially when you said airline cannot afford to lose any more mainline aircraft either.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
FutureFO
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:44 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 13):
Will these possible future EMB's be operated by Delta or a Delta Connection carrier like Freedom Air which already operates the 170's. It should be Delta......right?

Freedom does not operate the 170's, they can barely operate the 145's. Shuttle America operates the 170 for DLC.



Sean
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
Evan767
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 28):
Freedom does not operate the 170's, they can barely operate the 145's. Shuttle America operates the 170 for DLC.

Oh shoot that's right. There are too many DLC carriers operating for Delta that I get them all mixed up. Thanks for clearing that up.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
milesrich
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:41 pm

While the 737-232 is a "gas guzzler," Delta has kept them for the same reason NW keeps DC-9-30's, and the Delta aircraft are much newer (20 years newer), and more fuel efficient as the JT-8D's on the Delta birds are of a later variety. The 737-300's were retired because the 347's had vacuum gauge cockpits, while the others (that had very high lease rates) were glass cockpits requiring different crew training and scheduling.
 
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litz
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 21):
Though the 732s had one of my favourite coach seats in the world, 16A/F, as there was no 15A/F. Now, it's down to 11/12 F/G on the 764 (about 40 inches of legroom) and 27A/G on the 763 (no 26A/G)...
Jeff

Don't forget Row 19 on the 757 !

10+ feet of legroom, clear across the entryway @ door 2R ...  Smile

When they finish the reconfigurations, there'll also be mongo-legroom by door 2L as well, as they're removing that galley fixture.

- litz
 
burnsie28
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:54 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 19):
It's nice to see the 732 comin into GSP on my way back from work...though I don't understand why DL flies MD80s and 737s here when everyone else (including DL) flies RJs...those jets can't possibly be full.

Just because other airlines cant fill mainline doesnt mean one cant. For instance, NW at MDT, VPS, FAR, DLH, etc. They can fill them, but like FAR, United doesn't see enough traffic to replace 3 CRJ's with one mainline aircraft. Etc. Some places certain airlines have more success then others. NW used to serve GSP with a DC-9 until the cutbacks, with expansion of flying again, that may return.
 
Derik737
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Sat Jun 24, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting AirMailer (Reply 5):
They actually have 50 738s on order already, expect them to start taking delivery instead of selling them off, once they have profits.

Rumor has it that those remaining 50 slots have now been sold. The person I talked to thought it was a specific leasing company, so I checked with a contact I had there. The contact wasn't aware of it and that would be a large order for his company (they took 10 last time). I'm very interested to confirm/deny this rumor and will keep digging.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:46 pm

I'm betting DL will be taking everything we have on order from here on out. Of course one crazy terrorist thing in the world could change that.

I still can not come to grips with the reasoning of the religion terrorist. I think so what if that other guy doesn't believe in the same God as you (or any for that matter), that is that guy's problem on the other end (if there is one). I know this a rational open minded view that will most likely get flamed to death. I am sorry I may have hijacked the thread.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 34):
I still can not come to grips with the reasoning of the religion terrorist. I think so what if that other guy doesn't believe in the same God as you (or any for that matter), that is that guy's problem on the other end (if there is one). I know this a rational open minded view that will most likely get flamed to death. I am sorry I may have hijacked the thread.

The crazy thing about the Islamic terrorists is that they worship the same god as Jews and Christians... they just interpret a bit different the role of Jesus Christ and Mohammad (SP?)

As far as the 732's... I haven't flown on one in a long time, but they were the easiest plane to clean when I was working Cabin Service. That was the only plane that we never had a problem getting done within the 14 minute window.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
RogerThat
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RE: Why Is DL Still Hanging On To 732s?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 6):
They still need a 100 seat plane.. thats the role of the 732.



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 10):
DL could recieve 2 EMB for the price of the 737-600

Better yet, if they need 100 seaters on the cheap...

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They could even fly one into LUV field again, maybe...


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