bahadir
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Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:07 pm

A Turkish daily reports some incidences where few flight attendants refuse to serve alcohol to pax becuase it's against their religious believes.
Here's the link to the news article, unfortunately it is in turkish.

http://www.sabah.com.tr/2006/06/21/gun125.html
Earthbound misfit I
 
FFlyer
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:13 pm

Sigh..."religious believes"... Maybe they should have selected another profession. After all, they knew that alcohol is served on TK flights.
 
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TK787
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 1):
Maybe they should have selected another profession.

Exactly. But people are stupid that way. I have seen vegetarian people complaining about butchering salmon in a salmon cannery.
About the TK incident, I am sure it is an isolated case. But in a week where some TK flights were cancelled due to lack of crews, and the banning of "Winnie the pooh" cartoon show on TRT (because it has the "piglet" in it), media continues with the idea: if it bleeds, it leads.

Let's turn this around a bit:
We can talk about the good old AS praying cards that come with every meal. Just imagine if TK adopted something like that.
How about "two free out of Barrow" slogan. Sorry about all these Alaskan examples, but I like them. You used to get two free drinks out of Barrow, AK and that's it for the whole flight. Barrow used to be, I don't know maybe still is, a dry town.

[Edited 2006-06-21 15:30:58]
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:53 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 4):
We can talk about the good old AS praying cards that come with every meal.

I've heard about this, and seen it on airline meals.net, but have never flown on AS.

I think it is out of place, and a practice that is in poor taste.
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Newark777
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:56 am

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 9):
when it gets imposed on people

How's a prayer card imposing anything on you? Throw the damn thing out if you don't like it. And you have the option not to fly with them.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
pilotaydin
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:42 am

I fly 4 legs almost everyday as a F/O for TK. I think that most people are unaware that since the very beginning there have been "management" problems....it's only now, since the expansion, that people take the time to notice.

About that F/A. There were people like this around BEFORE AKP, trust me. However no one had anything to say about them because the current leaders of the country weren't that religious, so it wouldn't be such a dynamic media outlet. The dam has burst in Turkey, anyone who has a pen is writing shit down in the media about Turkish Airlines. Many articles are lies and are wrong, and as a country that strives on "i know this because it said so in the paper" this worries me. The other day some pax at the door were like " so you don't show up for work anymore, must be nice" to myself and my crew...I was like WTF we're flying EXTRA because short staffed in my head. But because some precious uneducated idiot at a certain newspaper sits there and acts like a typical turk, we see this.

It's not my job to defend or attack the company I work for. However, when critical analysis is done, EXACT words must be chosen, and items not mixed. Inflight service is one thing, pilots are another, ontime departure is one thing, management is another. TRUST me not all those things are interlinked all the time. With all the expansion going on, I would say things aren't too bad at Turkish Airlines, it could be worse.
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
B707Stu
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:51 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 11):

It's not my job to defend or attack the company I work for. However, when critical analysis is done, EXACT words must be chosen, and items not mixed. Inflight service is one thing, pilots are another, ontime departure is one thing, management is another. TRUST me not all those things are interlinked all the time. With all the expansion going on, I would say things aren't too bad at Turkish Airlines, it could be worse.

That sounds like a very true statement - you could be Varig.
 
ANNOYEDFA
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:15 pm

Religion is the root of all evil...... It's liquor and just because the person serving it is religious it doesn't mean you should be allowed to push your religious beliefs and deny someone a drink which for some bring pure utter enjoyment.
"TWA... One Mission, Yours."
 
Newark777
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 16):
It's the reason half the middle east is killing themselves and us!

So you are blaming Islam for the terrorism in the Middle East? And not the fantasists taking advantage of it? There's a lot of people here who won't take too kindly to that.

Quoting ANNOYEDFA (Reply 16):
No it's the truth

No, it's your skewed, misinformed opinion.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
katekebo
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:35 pm

Having lived for two years in Turkey, I can attest that Turkish people are very modern-thinking and far away from being religious fanatics or fundamentalist. Actually, I find most young Turkish people to be much more open-minded than average Americans, and the level of Muslim fundamentalism is nowhere as high as the Christian fundamentalism so popular in the USA. At least in Turkey nobody questions evolution, as it is now so popular here with the bunch of idiots preaching "intelligent design", and the Turkish government has the backbone to challenge religious fundamentalism instead of promoting stupid and ineffective ideas based on religion-inspired wishfullt-thinking, like the idea of promoting sexual abstinence among young people instead of teaching them how to use condoms. I hope that the premature death of many young people in the US due to AIDS and other diseases preventable through proper sexual education will weight on the concience of the people who deny this information to their sons and daughters.

Back to the article, I think an isolated behavior of some Turkish flight attendants is not representative of the country and its rich culture as a whole.
 
turkishaviator
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:04 pm

In past 3 decades, I did my share of flying with TK, and I have some relevant observations to share. I cannot stop noticing that the TK's quality of the service is continuously detoriating for about past 10 years. This became much more visible in past few of years. Ever since 90s ground services especially check-in counters were a mess, so that I always waited eagerly get on the airplane. This is because; back then TK's problems stopped on board. Then 2000s came along, and problems begin get on the aircraft. Do not get me wrong, nothing mechanical or safety related, just the problems related to the quality of the service.
I relate this to the young age, and lack of experience of cabin crews, and to the partisan politics of AKP (The Islamic oriented party currently in power). Recently I am noticing the increasing number of stewards. Once, I mentioned this to one of the stewards, he told me that, in-flight service is a man's job, not a woman's. I do not have a problem with man serving my peanuts, or hazelnuts in TK's case, but the conservative mentality that is trying the eliminate stewardesses, to replacing them with stewards is leading this beautiful airline to uncharted territories.
Moreover, recent flight delays due to insufficient cabin crew are also related to the issue discussed in previous paragraph. In order to shift the balance, TK is trying to hire more stewards and fewer stewardesses. However, in a country like Turkey, men do not want to work as flight attendants, nor do women with strong Islamic beliefs. Therefore, AKP cannot recruit enough flight attendants, at least in a way they want, to cope with current expansion plans that PilotAydin has mentioned before.
TK had best alcohol policies among most of the major airlines. As long as you are sober, you got what you wanted. It is still same, but with a subtle twist. All of a sudden, TK stopped carrying enough alcohol onboard, if you are sitting towards the rear all you hear is they run out of wine, beer, etc. I believe the case bahadir mentioned above is an isolated case, but with the current hiring policies, it is very much likely that it happened. Given that you have past data, it is quite easy to come up with the number of alcoholic beverages consumed in any given flight. All you have to do is to provide enough of it, and your problem is solved, that is if you want to solve this problem. Perhaps, current management in TK prefers "dry flights" but currently they do not have enough courage to enforce it, and they are playing nasty little games.
In all ranks of TK, AKP employed their supporters. Most of these people have zero experience in aviation. Some of them worked in fast ferry lines of Istanbul, and some worked at metropolitan transportation authority of Istanbul. If you are reading this, I am assuming that you know enough about aviation that, aviation requires a very different way of doing business. Volatility in the management as well as within the company was and still continuing to be the leading cause of this downturn. Everybody working at TK who is not a known supporter of AKP is afraid of being replaced by one of AKP's supporters. This fact alone is affecting the way people are doing their jobs. Given that TK had five upper management sweeps in past decade, no real business policy got a chance to hold root. Moreover, crucial decisions were influenced by political climates of the time. All these observations can be supported by the obvious errors made, in the fleet structuring, decisions to open new destinations, hiring, retiring, etc.
Most of the Turkish pilots have a military background, which does not get along with AKP; even the ones with civilian background are just too cool to be involved with AKP. Hence, the cockpit crews are the only group of people isolated from AKP partisanship. I hope that this will stay the way it is. As I always say, TK is just too important to be handled by AKP.

Sorry for this lengthy post but I believe this is the only way to analyze this issue.

[Edited 2006-06-22 09:45:36]
If it ain't Boeing I am not going
 
Marco
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:05 pm

Actually, I find most young Turkish people to be much more open-minded than average Americans, and the level of Muslim fundamentalism is nowhere as high as the Christian fundamentalism so popular in the USA.

Once you've travelled outside of Istanbul or Ankara things change. Please do not make broad generalization based on your little experience in the city. The fact of the matter is that Turkey is trying to be Islamisized by the fanatics - something that wouldn't be tolerated a few years ago.
Proud to be an Assyrian!
 
AMSSpotter
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:45 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 17):
So you are blaming Islam for the terrorism in the Middle East? And not the fantasists taking advantage of it? There's a lot of people here who won't take too kindly to that.

I Think ANNOYEDFA means that a lot of conflicts are somehow caused by people bickering over religious issues. And if that is what he means, I fully agree with him. If I only look at European history, many, many people have been slaughtered "in the name of the Lord". Not that the Lord ever wanted it to be that way, should he exist, but that's how mankind has been dealing and still deals with it...
 
ltbewr
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:32 pm

I am quite sure there are significant numbers of f/a's in other parts of the world who's personal faith discourages or bans the use of alcoholic beverages (Islamic, Mormon, a number of Christian groups) but agree that it is part of the job. There are many of us who may disagree with a policy or assignment at our work for personal reasons, but we have to realize it is part of our job to do what the client or customer wants within reason. TK has a conflict and too much influence by politicans in that they probably have to hire people without discrimination as to their personal choice of faith yet still has political pressure to hire those with a more conservative views.
 
emrecan
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:37 pm

This is topic is confuted by TK.

I don't know why Bahadir is not writing this.
 
bahadir
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:29 pm

Just flew IST-ESB thýs mornýng
I wasnt paying attention to the thinks that Gokmengs mentioned. There are a lot of Ulker products being pushed and offered in catering.

Emrecan
I have been busy dealing with stupid SHGM and Tarkým for last 24 hrs. So if you want to add the article go ahead be my guest. Instead of bashing my posts you can add that press release to the chain of posts... But you know what? This incýdent however isolated it can be doesnt sound like a news item that someone pulled off their ass

PS The sandwich on TKs flýght was really tasty
Earthbound misfit I
 
emrecan
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:38 pm

Bahadir:

I just want to ask you if it is possible something like that. I mean you are a pilot, you know aviation better than me but how you can believe this I don't understand.

Also as I've told you before, I mostly agree what you think about TK. But sometimes you are blaming me for nothing..
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 3):
Selam TurkishWings;
I might disagree with Bahadir on some of his posts but I never thought he "bashed" TK, but to me you take offense on every negative post on TK, I'm Turkish too, but I'm TK's one of harshest critics, that doesn't make me a basher.

Criticising is one thing and bashing is another... I think he has been bashing TK in almost every comment you write about them. Just because they did not hire him, he is pissed off with them and that's the reason why I am using the word "bashing". The airline might not be the best but they deserve a lot more credit than he gives to them.

I am quite aware of what's going on within the company. I still have friends I am in touch with, mostly F/As. Last time I flew TK a few weeks ago, the salad was sold out so they offered me sandwich and cake. Even though I was hungry, I refused to take them only because they were Ulker's products. I dislike that political party as much as many others do. Unfortunately they have a big control over TK. I will do my share when it comes to the voting stage and I am trying to influence everyone around to vote for the strongest opponent party even though I don't truly support them either...

I must admit that I am biased when it comes to TK. I am an ex-employee and I have very many great memories. My problem with Bahadir, is that I haven't heard any positive comments from him apart from his sandwich comment above which in my opinion is not really tasty  Wink
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TurkishWings
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting Marco (Reply 20):
Once you've travelled outside of Istanbul or Ankara things change. Please do not make broad generalization based on your little experience in the city. The fact of the matter is that Turkey is trying to be Islamisized by the fanatics - something that wouldn't be tolerated a few years ago.

And how many times have you travelled outside Istanbul and Ankara? How many of the 75 million have you seen?

Many Turkish people may be religious but we are actually very very open minded.T urkey will never ever be an Islamic country. Even though there are millions who are trying, they will never achieve this I can asssure you. This land has been home to many religions and we respect each and every of them.
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:16 am

From what I've read, Turkey is a progressive country and historically a good friend of the United States. I am saddened that there are apparently problems with its relationship with some elements in Europe who may oppose its membership in the EU, since this opposition appears to be a significant international issue.

As for flight attendants of any country or airline who oppose aspects of their job, even if such aspects are legal, because it offends their religious beliefs, I think that there should some reasonable accommodation of those beliefs if it does not affect the company that employs them. (For this purpose, customer complaints, if significant, would count toward evaluating the effect.) In this case, if such flight attendants are such a minority that their compatriots could easily fulfill orders for alcohol without adding to their co-workers' burdens on particular flights, then that should be considered. However, it seems to me that no employee's religious beliefs should prevent a company from doing what is legal, because employees are always free to seek another source of employment if their work does not conform to their personal beliefs. And where there is doubt, then the benefit of the doubt, I think, should accrue to the employer.

[Edited 2006-06-22 19:18:58]
What's fair is fair.
 
gokmengs
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 29):
As for flight attendants who oppose aspects of their job, even if such aspects are legal, because it offends their religious beliefs, I think that there should some reasonable accommodation of those beliefs if it does not affect the company that employs them.

The problem its not legal! Those drinks are there for the to serve it to the customers, they were out of line(if the story is true)

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 27):
You have no right to call me names.. I don't know you, you don't know me. Please apologize. I am going to suggest deletion shortly after this message anyway.

I think you are taking it too personal, you bashed bahadir before, and you don't want to hear it when someone tells it to you? Its an internet forum what do you mean "you don't even know me"
I been almost everywhere in Turkey(I'm Turkish) and I'll tell you this there are more fundementalist in Istanbul, and Ankara then say a small city like Mugla or Manisa. Turkey is overall a very open minded country.

Quoting Katekebo (Reply 18):
Having lived for two years in Turkey, I can attest that Turkish people are very modern-thinking and far away from being religious fanatics or fundamentalist. Actually, I find most young Turkish people to be much more open-minded than average Americans, and the level of Muslim fundamentalism is nowhere as high as the Christian fundamentalism so popular in the USA.

 checkmark   checkmark 
Thanks for saying what I try to to explain to people here in US all the time, just because the majority of the public is muslim it doesn't make Turkey a country like Saudi Arabia(no disrespect to Saudi Arabia, but Turkish people live a different life)

Quoting Marco (Reply 20):
Once you've travelled outside of Istanbul or Ankara things change. Please do not make broad generalization based on your little experience in the city.



Quoting Bahadir (Reply 24):
I wasnt paying attention to the thinks that Gokmengs mentioned. There are a lot of Ulker products being pushed and offered in catering.

They do it slowly silently and next thing you know its all their products, same way in Human Resources, AKP works very intelligently and I know their ultumate goal
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
dutchjet
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:26 am

Tricky issue......issues like this are hard to deal with in nations where beliefs and practices differ from one portion of the population to the other.

As for the TK flight attendants who did not wish to serve alcoholic beverages, I have a simple opinion: Its the policy of TK to serve alcohol on its flights to pax that want such drinks, thus the F/A should serve them to be in compliance with company policy....end of discussion. Employees cannot change or alter company rules due to their personal beliefs.....of course the F/A's are entitled to follow and believe in whatever religion they chose, but their beliefs should not be imposed on others while they are in service of TK. This issue was over something not very important, but we would not tolerate F/As or other employees changing other airline procedures to suit their individual beliefs? Not likely. What if this was a safety matter, for example.

If the particular F/A's so strongly object to serving alcohol in flight, they should not be flying for TK where the policy allow such service.......other career options should be offered to these employees.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 30):
The problem its not legal! Those drinks are there for the to serve it to the customers, they were out of line(if the story is true)

I'm sorry; I don't understand what you are saying. Who is "they"? Because if "they" are the flight attendants, then it would seem to me that your message indicates with agreement to me that if there cannot be reasonable accommodation, then those flight attendants should, in fact, be required to serve alcohol, regardless of their beliefs.

Please clarify.
What's fair is fair.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:33 am

I think that this issue is, indeed, very tricky.

For example, if an observant Jew desires to wear a yarmulke (head covering) while conducting his duties as a flight attendant on an international airline serving Europe, the Middle East, and Asia, should he be required to take it off while serving flights between a Middle Eastern Arab country and Europe, if there are significant customer complaints based solely on his head covering?

Under the policy I propose, I would say that the company should offer this person a position on its routes in which it is unlikely to be an issue and that does not cause significant customer complaints, or, failing that, he should be asked to take a position for which he is qualified other than a flight attendant, within the company. However, if no such positions exist, or if such an employee refuses reassignment, then I think he should be required to take off the yarmulke while on duty as a flight attendant. And there should be no right of recourse against the company if the company reasonably decides that there is no position for him that can accommodate his need to wear the yarmulke, if he insists on wearing it while on duty.

It doesn't matter, for this purpose, if it's a male flight attendant who wishes to wear a yarmulke or a female flight attendant who desires to wear a burkha, or any combination thereof.

I think that this principle should apply to employers as a reasonable compromise between work and religion.

There are, of course, limits to accommodation. If an airline from India features beautiful female flight attendants who wear saris, and if this is a beneficial feature that distinguishes it from the competition, then that's a different matter: Customer complaints based on the idea that saris are worn by flight attendants should largely be disregarded. And. ceteris paribus, if female attendants refuse to wear saris in such an environment, then there should be no reasonable accommodation of their wishes, provided that it is reasonably known that the airline has such a dress code. This, to me, is common sense.

[Edited 2006-06-22 19:45:38]
What's fair is fair.
 
flyabunch
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting Tu154 (Reply 15):
p.s. Do i need to do spell check? Oh look......i should be capitol.....or is it capital.......hmmmmmm. And by the way, as this is an American site...we don't spell "behaviour" with a "U".....it's "behavior."

American site? I think a little research is in order. This site first and foremost is an INTERNATIONAL SITE. And, the last time I checked the Founder and President was Swedish...and the site is managed from Sweden.

Mike
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 34):
American site? I think a little research is in order. This site first and foremost is an INTERNATIONAL SITE. And, the last time I checked the Founder and President was Swedish...and the site is managed from Sweden.

For what it's worth: "Capital" is spelled with the second "a", unless it refers to the Capitol Building in Washington, D.C. The capital of the United States is Washington, D.C., and the capital city of California is Sacramento; Congress, however, convenes at the Capitol in D.C.

[Edited 2006-06-22 19:46:11]
What's fair is fair.
 
gokmengs
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 32):
I'm sorry; I don't understand what you are saying. Who is "they"? Because if "they" are the flight attendants, then it would seem to me that your message indicates with agreement to me that if there cannot be reasonable accommodation, then those flight attendants should, in fact, be required to serve alcohol, regardless of their beliefs.

Aerospacefan sorry for not being clear, what I'm saying is TK serves their customers alcohol and in no way any FA can refuse to do so because of their personal beliefs, its just ridicilous and AGAINST company policy.
Edited for spelling

[Edited 2006-06-22 20:09:33]
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 36):
Aerospacefan sorry for not being clear, what I'm saying is TK serves their customers alcohol and in no way and FA can refuse to do so because of their personal beliefs, its just ridicilous and AGAINST company policy.

Thank you for your clarification. In that case, I think that we do agree far more than we disagree, if we disagree at all.

[Edited 2006-06-22 20:00:02]
What's fair is fair.
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:18 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 30):
I think you are taking it too personal, you bashed bahadir before, and you don't want to hear it when someone tells it to you?

I criticized his opinions but I never called him names!! What right does that person have to call me "nasty"?
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
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TK787
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:26 am

I would like to add few more and try to keep this about aviation.
Fundamentalism is on the rise everywhere; from Iran to the USA, from Palestine to Venezuela. Turkey is getting her share.
Our Turkey based A.netters should have better numbers, but the current government doesn't have a majority base. I don't know the time of next elections, but when the time comes they could be replaced with a moderate one.
If that happens what kind of changes could we expect for TK?
Fleet and route planning that makes most of us happy?
Better crew recruitment and training?
On board service and products that offend less people?

Already too many questions but;
How about other airlines in Turkey? Is there a feeling of the same kind of pressures on those private companies?

Thanks
 
bahadir
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:54 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 18):
I must admit that I am biased when it comes to TK. I am an ex-employee and I have very many great memories. My problem with Bahadir, is that I haven't heard any positive comments from him apart from his sandwich comment above which in my opinion is not really tasty



Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 18):
I think he has been bashing TK in almost every comment you write about them. Just because they did not hire him, he is pissed off with them and that's the reason why I am using the word "bashing". The airline might not be the best but they deserve a lot more credit than he gives to them.

I said it before and I will say it again, I never looked for an employment in TK.
What part of that you dont understand?

Also, you got your wish and requested deletion of the reply I made. This is whats wrong with your attitude w you and w people who think like you in Turkey, if we dont agree w you that is considered bashing.

Do a search for crying out loud for the posts and replies I made. I give credit when its due.Again, I truely liked the sandwich, just because you dont like it now my good comment about it is unfounded???? I am laughing at this....


Lately TK has been screwing so many things
- they fired experienced mechanics
- They also let go of some very experienced F/As
- Their customer service skills and language skills lack the level of professionalism and language level of what they claim to be: a world leader airline.
- They chose wrong type of aircraft by chosing Airbus narrow body aircraft.
- Lastly the AKPization of the entire personnel?

All these are not unfounded accusations. These are facts.

And yes, GokmenGS, TK787 and me are able to take a look at the things from a better perspective because we fly TK and many other airlines very extensively. (2005 Mýleage plus only I flew 120K miles). It seems to me that we critisize TK more may be because we care about it...Have you ever thought about that?

[Edited 2006-06-23 08:06:11]
Earthbound misfit I
 
emrecan
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:44 pm

The exact answer for the topic:


NONE OF THE F/A REFUSED TO SERVE ALCOHOL ON TK FLIGHT. That news were completely lie.
 
turkishaviator
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:10 pm

RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:08 pm

Here are some more comumnist opinions on changing TK
They seem to agree with the posts in this thread.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/4631924.asp?yazarid=42&gid=61
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/4632473.asp?yazarid=91

If non-Turkish speaking members show interest, I will translate these articles.

If 10% of what they say is true, it is enough to be concerned about the future of TK.
If it ain't Boeing I am not going
 
TurkishWings
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:57 pm

RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:18 pm

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 32):
I said it before and I will say it again, I never looked for an employment in TK.
What part of that you dont understand?

I assumed you looked for employment at TK because of this comment you made in the Turkish Aviation thread:

"I have two degrees from two different universities, extensive airline economics, IT and CFI'ing experience. Everytime I come to Turkey I return empty handed from so many different perspective. "

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 32):
Also, you got your wish and requested deletion of the reply I made.

I didn't suggest deletion for any of your posts.. I did to the post of Tu154 and it has been deleted.

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 32):
It seems to me that we criticize TK more may be because we care about it...Have you ever thought about that?

Then why don't you ever mention anything "positive" about TK in any of your posts? Isn't there anything worth appreciating about this airline?
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
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TK787
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:57 pm

TurkishAviator,
By the way, welcome aboard. Nice to have you here.

Quoting TurkishAviator (Reply 34):
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/4632473.asp?yazarid=91

In this article, the writer mentions the Nevsehir airport. Even though it is closer to Cappadocia and the touristic sites, TK and other airlines use ASR which is an hour bus ride away to the sites. The article suggests this might be because A. Gul, the Foreign minister's home base is ASR. And he wouldn't want to loose business to Nevsehir.

It is true the airport is close to the sites, but I have taken a charter TK734 out of Nevsehir (NAV) couple of years ago, and it is too small. As far as I can remember the size is similar to the DLM domestic lounge. It might not be able to accommodate the summer traffic, but again a few flights a day shouldn't be a problem.
 
B707Stu
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:09 pm

A little off topic, but not much, which is TK's best beach destination in Turkey?
 
TurkishWings
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:57 pm

RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:26 pm

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 37):
A little off topic, but not much, which is TK's best beach destination in Turkey?

AYT is extremely popular closely followed by DLM (Dalaman)and BJV (Bodrum). I live in Bodrum now and we have some great beaches here.... For the best beaches IMO, you should travel to Kas or Kalkan in AYT though its at least 2-3 hours drive from the airport. Best beaches around DLM would be located in Fethiye or around Marmaris.

Also ADB is a popular destination for beaches. Cesme, a nearby town, has some of the most spectacular beaches and one of the best in the Med for windsurfing...

Check out these two links for more info:

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/turkey/0349020110.html

http://www.bugbog.com/beaches/turkey_beaches.html
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 38):
AYT is extremely popular closely followed by DLM (Dalaman)and BJV (Bodrum). I live in Bodrum now and we have some great beaches here.... For the best beaches IMO, you should travel to Kas or Kalkan in AYT though its at least 2-3 hours drive from the airport. Best beaches around DLM would be located in Fethiye or around Marmaris.

Also ADB is a popular destination for beaches. Cesme, a nearby town, has some of the most spectacular beaches and one of the best in the Med for windsurfing...

Check out these two links for more info:

Thanks very much, they look beautiful.
 
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SLCUT2777
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Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
I am quite sure there are significant numbers of f/a's in other parts of the world who's personal faith discourages or bans the use of alcoholic beverages (Islamic, Mormon, a number of Christian groups) but agree that it is part of the job.

I know a number of Mormons who are Flight Attendants for DL, one gal is a 21 year veteran with them and Suzi says she just figures that serving alcoholic beverages is part of her job. It isn't a sin for a Mormon to serve alcohol, just to consume it.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
There are many of us who may disagree with a policy or assignment at our work for personal reasons, but we have to realize it is part of our job to do what the client or customer wants within reason.

Keep in mind that Las Vegas was built with Mormon labor and mid level management (Dealers, Cashiers, Pit-bosses, Accountants). Gambling is a taboo for Mormons, but working in the gaming industry is not.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
they probably have to hire people without discrimination as to their personal choice of faith yet still has political pressure to hire those with a more conservative views.

This is a problem with any religion now. There will be some who are more conservative fundamentally speaking and feel very strongly about a particular issue, while others will feel less stringent about it. For a country like Turkey, besides alcohol, belly-dancing is another profession that religious zealots will take issue with due to the sexual overtones and what not.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
TurkishWings
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Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:57 pm

RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:43 pm

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 39):
Thanks very much, they look beautiful.

They are beautiful  Smile

Although to experience the best of all, I suggest you take a "blue cruise" vacation for a week to explore the unspoilt hidden beaches... I have an American friend here in Bodrum who has lovely boats (gulets) who would definitely help you arrange a cruise  Wink

The web site of her company: www.neyzen.com.tr
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
AR385
Posts: 6735
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:26 am

I think this is overall an issue of respect. I respect the religious beliefs of people. But, at the same time, they should respect mine. That is why I believe in secular goverments, institutions and companies. While saying that religion "should be limited to the temple" is a bit extreme to me, secularity guarantees that diverse societies can co-exist. If the case of this F/A is true, then she is violating company policy and as such, should be reprimanded. She has no right to impose her religion on me, let's say. And denying alcohol to me on the public job she has, qualifies as religious imposition.

I have not been to Turkey, but I live in a country where if the Constitution is not correcly exercised, we risk becoming a fundamentalist Catholic outpost. In the more isolated parts of the country, there have been serious fights between Catholics and Evangelists to see who converts the most. When I say fights, I mean mobs with guns, machetes et al. There have been deaths and serious injuries. What is more scary, though, is that the Vatican tacitly approves this conduct. At least that was the position of Karol Wojtila.

Can someone explain to me what is what are Ulker products and why there's such a big issues with them?
 
turkishaviator
Posts: 17
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 40):
Can someone explain to me what is what are Ulker products and why there's such a big issues with them?

Ulker is a well-known Turkish food company. They are known to be close to the AKP. I am not sure about now, but I believe once Tayyip Erdogan (current prime Minister, Leader of AKP), or his oldest son was in a business relationship with Ulker. I believe Erdogan family was the biggest distributor of Ulker products.

Ulker as a company, is known to be a non-secular organization. TK, heavily purchasing Ulker products concerns secular people because, it is clear that AKP is using TK to empower Ulker and other AKP supporters.
If it ain't Boeing I am not going
 
b52murph
Posts: 223
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RE: Some F/As Refuse To Serve Alcohol On TK

Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:30 am

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 35):
A little off topic, but not much, which is TK's best beach destination in Turkey?

Another great option is the beach by Kiz Kalesi (Castle-by-the-sea), about an hour's drive from Adana Havalanni. Inexpensive hotels, beautiful views, and currently about a 175 YTL r/t ticket price between IST and ADA.

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