BoomBoom
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Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:21 am

Quote:
Geoff Dixon, chief executive of Qantas Airways, recently had dinner with Boeing commercial airplanes boss Alan Mulally.

No word on who picked up the check, but it was likely Mulally, given that Qantas has ordered as many as 115 787 Dreamliners.

Mulally is hoping to sell his friend another Boeing jet, the 747-8. "We are interested, there is no doubt about that," Dixon said of the passenger version of 747-8.

Dixon said Qantas would likely buy either more A380s or the 747-8, but not both planes.

Dixon said Boeing has told Qantas that the 747-8 should be able to fly non-stop from Sydney to Dallas with a full load of passengers.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/274668_air21.html
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MalpensaSFO
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:32 am

And the boys in Hamburg sit back and scratch their heads thinking "Damn what a mess we got ourself into".. Anyone else see the mess in the French congress yesterday?
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
slider
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:37 am

And so the weeklong atomic wedgie for Airbus continues.

Day-um!
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:37 am

Hmmm, I wonder if Boeing is dangling a very big carrot??  scratchchin 
 
hrhf1
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 3):
Hmmm, I wonder if Boeing is dangling a very big carrot?? scratchchin

Yes, the carrot of having a plane delivered on time. :-P
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting Hrhf1 (Reply 4):
Yes, the carrot of having a plane delivered on time. :-P

Or one on the assembly line...

Anyone in the market for ex-VARIG 777-200, 767-300, or MD-11 aircraft?
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EMBQA
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 3):
Hmmm, I wonder if Boeing is dangling a very big carrot??

Oh you bet they are..!! .....and I'm sure it gets sweeter if Qantas cancels their A380 order and goes all 747-8.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
IADBGO
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:22 am

Quote:
Oh you bet they are..!! .....and I'm sure it gets sweeter if Qantas cancels their A380 order and goes all 747-8.

I'm sure that would sweeten the deal but I wouldn't count on Qantas canceling. They will milk the delay for all it is worth, big bucks, then put that money toward some 748i frames.

IADBGO
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
Dixon said Qantas would likely buy either more A380s or the 747-8, but not both planes.

Doubt they would committee to any future Airbus orders until they see a A380 in QF colors at SYD. With the delays and QF seeking compensation I bet they are not looking to hand Airbus anymore money for time being.

Quoting Hrhf1 (Reply 4):
Yes, the carrot of having a plane delivered on time.

Lets all hope... A380 is a completely new a/c but i would imagine Airbus still has some explaining to do to QF, SQ, and EK for now for the newest round of delays. For time being though I'm sure the 748 looks good to QF if Boeing can delivery on their word and time frame.
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MCIGuy
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:36 am

Oh, this may be worse than I thought (for Airbus). I smell a cancelled A380 order and a BIG 748 order. Qantas has always been a 747 cheerleader anyway, and they're very familiar with the type.
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Gemuser
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 7):
I'm sure that would sweeten the deal but I wouldn't count on Qantas canceling. They will milk the delay for all it is worth, big bucks,

That you can count on!

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 7):
then put that money toward some 748i frames

I would not bet on that!

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
Dixon said Qantas would likely buy either more A380s or the 747-8, but not both planes.

This is the IMPORTANT bit of the article! This is TOTALLY consistant with QF history and practice.

As to which? Nobody yet has enough information to make the call yet, not even QF. The A380 will have greater capacity, has promisted certain performance and will be available at a given date which is closer than the B748Is. The B748I will have less capacity, has promised certain performance and is currently available after the A380.

Which will QF choose. Nobody knows, but dont write off the A380, QF sorely needs that capacity, the B748i could also face program delays and the A380 is well into flight testing. Don't expect a decision until after the currently predicted A380 EIS.

Gemuser
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EMBQA
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 7):
I'm sure that would sweeten the deal but I wouldn't count on Qantas canceling. They will milk the delay for all it is worth, big bucks, then put that money toward some 748i frames.

Boeing isn't stuiped. It won't be an open ended deal. "We'll give you 30 days to think it over...other wise you pay retail"
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
MCIGuy
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:42 am

1) There is nothing to indicate that the 748i will be delayed. It's derivative, it won't be late.

2) Qantas and the 747 is an "old time love story".

3) 748 will require very little new training for flight or ground crews, i.e., lower cost of ownership.

4) They'd only have to buy a few more 748's to make up for lost A380 capacity.
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Gemuser
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
Doubt they would committee to any future Airbus orders until they see a A380 in QF colors at SYD. With the delays and QF seeking compensation I bet they are not looking to hand Airbus anymore money for time being.

This is undoubtly true! (probabley 4 or 5 actually on the tarmac at SYD, in fact). But I don't think they will be ordering any B748s until then either, unless something unforseen happens.

Gemuser
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boeingfever777
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 9):
Oh, this may be worse than I thought (for Airbus). I smell a cancelled A380 order

Doubt that... Dixon is no dummy and will make Airbus pay for their consistent delays in the program and delivery of his a/c.

QF is a big 747 cheerleader like others have said and this is the 2nd or 3rd article in the past 2-3 months were we have seen Dixon publicly state his desire and intrest in the 748 and the program. Only time will tell if he is serious.
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boeingfever777
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 13):
But I don't think they will be ordering any B748s until then either, unless something unforseen happens.

When is the 748 slated to hit the production line and is QF seriously looking to fly the SYD-DFW route within the next 2-4yrs? That is what I would ask myself to see if Dixon is serious or just nibbling on the Boeing carrot to taste and see if he likes it.
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Ruscoe
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
Dixon said Qantas would likely buy either more A380s or the 747-8, but not both planes

I think this reference is not for the future but now.
In other words, we are either going to cancel 380's and order 748 or stick with 380. Probably just setting the scene for some tough talking with Airbus.

However QF needs the 380 size for sure.

I would not see any problem with QF operating both types long term. After all that's what they planned to do until all 380's arrived, or is this an indication that 773ER are going to replace 747.

Ruscoe
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 5):
Anyone in the market for ex-VARIG 777-200, 767-300, or MD-11 aircraft?

Given the general shortage of widebodies at the moment, i would suspect these would be snapped us immediately...
 
eraugrad02
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:13 am

I don't no but with boeing thinking about lengthening the 747-8i to about +/- 475 pax. It brings it closer to the seating capacity of the A380. I wouldnt put it past Quantas if they switched to the 747-8i exclusively. Just my .02.

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boeingfever777
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 18):
I wouldnt put it past Quantas if they switched to the 747-8i exclusively.

Digs ERAUgrad02 a grave.

[Edited 2006-06-22 04:21:41]
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flydreamliner
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:43 am

Quoting IADBGO (Reply 7):
I'm sure that would sweeten the deal but I wouldn't count on Qantas canceling. They will milk the delay for all it is worth, big bucks, then put that money toward some 748i frames.

I'm sure Boeing has tossed out there a to die for deal on 748i, including giving QF some 744's to use in the mean time to compensate for capacity until the 748's get there in exchange for a good order and the A380 cancellation.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:51 am

EMBQA From United States, joined Oct 2003, 4273 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted Thu Jun 22 2006 03:12:36 UTC+2 and read 982 times:


Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 3):
Hmmm, I wonder if Boeing is dangling a very big carrot??

Oh you bet they are..!! .....and I'm sure it gets sweeter if Qantas cancels their A380 order and goes all 747-8.


You can count on that happening if another delay is announced from AIRBUS.....

EK413
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CO738
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:05 pm

To some it up its one big game of Texas Hold'em and the pot is at $6 billion or so dollars wih a number of pink slips for a/c on the table it is only a matter of time before someone has the better hand
If only you could install an air horn on a plane...
 
QantasA380
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
1) There is nothing to indicate that the 748i will be delayed. It's derivative, it won't be late.

It's a derivative that's also a new aircraft - look at the B748 wing and the issues that came out of the A380 wing, just for starters.

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
4) They'd only have to buy a few more 748's to make up for lost A380 capacity.

But then they'd have to fly smaller aircraft more often, and park more aircraft at airports (eg SYD and MEL) that are already operating at their capacity limits. Qantas (and most airlines I would've thought) cannot afford to operate smaller aircraft on a higher number of services given cost of fuel, congestion and a stack of other factors.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 16):
However QF needs the 380 size for sure.

How true... Qantas and the Australian airline industry have done too much work with the A380 until now to back away over something like this - the airports have built new boarding gates specifically designed for the A380, Qantas will have planned them into the network, etc. It would be so much easier for Qantas to delay part of their network plan than reconfigure the whole thing from the ground up around a whole different aircraft type.

Apart from which, Airbus will do anything they can to keep QF, SQ and EK, along with all the other A380 customers, happy - short-term lease aircraft, partial refunds, early delivery on new orders, the works... because the current orders and the potential for future orders are worth so much to them...

I wouldn't even be surprised if Airbus were to offer further enhanced versions over the A340-500X and A340-600HGW to QF and SQ to hold them - they know that Qantas' B777/equivalent evaluation is still open.
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QantasA380
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
1) There is nothing to indicate that the 748i will be delayed. It's derivative, it won't be late.

It's a derivative that's also a new aircraft - look at the B748 wing and the issues that came out of the A380 wing, just for starters.

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
4) They'd only have to buy a few more 748's to make up for lost A380 capacity.

But then they'd have to fly smaller aircraft more often, and park more aircraft at airports (eg SYD and MEL) that are already operating at their capacity limits. Qantas (and most airlines I would've thought) cannot afford to operate smaller aircraft on a higher number of services given cost of fuel, congestion and a stack of other factors.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 16):
However QF needs the 380 size for sure.

How true... Qantas and the Australian airline industry have done too much work with the A380 until now to back away over something like this - the airports have built new boarding gates specifically designed for the A380, Qantas will have planned them into the network, etc. It would be so much easier for Qantas to delay part of their network plan than reconfigure the whole thing from the ground up around a whole different aircraft type.

Apart from which, Airbus will do anything they can to keep QF, SQ and EK, along with all the other A380 customers, happy - short-term lease aircraft, partial refunds, early delivery on new orders, the works... because the current orders and the potential for future orders are worth so much to them...

I wouldn't even be surprised if Airbus were to offer further enhanced versions over the A340-500X and A340-600HGW to QF and SQ to hold them - they know that Qantas' B777/equivalent evaluation is still open.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:51 pm

My prediction is that QF will squeeze AirBus as hard as they can and that they will NOT exercise their options. The A380 at 289t OEW will haul 480 passengers plus about 22t of freight westbound LAX-MEL assuming -35k winds. The 747-8 could do 450 passengers plus 18t freight under the same conditions. It is not likely that QF would use such a layout, but with around 410 passengers they could carry about 22t of freight.
Not unrelated is what unplaced 777-300ER frames do leasing companies have for delivery before the end of 2007 or early 2008?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:05 pm

As a derivative, if QF were to say: can you get us a 748i by Q2 2009, do you think it is doable? Can Boeing fast track the 748i since the 748F has done most of the wind tunnel testing already? It would require GE to push up the bleed-air GEnx by 1 quarter as well, but not sure why that can't be done.

The 739ER seems to be fast tracked, and with the wing work, cockpit and other non-pax interior changes already well underway in the 748F, the only thing holding the 748i back is a conservative schedule based on total lack of orders.

15 from QF might light some fires in Washington. After all, they would still have 3 YEARS from today to get this derivative out the door should they decide to push it forward.

Honestly, what hurdles are there, other than engines and 787 test program schedules, to even a Q1 2009 EIS?

BTW - this is the second time in about 10 days that QF have said they like the 748i and would buy it if it could make DFW non-stop...
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coa747
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:11 pm

People seem to be forgetting the decedas of experience of buidling the 747 that Boeing has under its belt. The A380 is Airbus first 747 sized aircraft so they are having to learn a lot of the things that Boeing figured out a long time ago. The 747-8 has new components but the assembly process will be the same. Airbus had to engineer everything from scratch to construct the A380 but Boeing already has everything it needs to build the 747-8 which cuts out a lot of the costs and headaches that Airbus is currently dealing with. IE don't expect the 747-8 to be delayed because Boeing already knows how to build a 747 as they have built some 3000+ airframes. The Airbus people are still ironing out the wrinkles in the A380 line and have only a few years experience with airframes that large.
 
Adam727
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:34 pm

Would it just be easier and cheaper in the long run to go with the new 748?
Like you all have said QF is familiar with the 747 and Training won't be as much as them training there crews for the A380. But if they go with the A380 aren't they limited on where to fly until airports can expand to serve the A 380, or is the Airport size old news.
 
longhaulheavy
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:57 pm

It's only logical for QF to go with Boeing. After all, they keep most of their planes at LAX.  Smile


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columba
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 12):
4) They'd only have to buy a few more 748's to make up for lost A380 capacity.

And what would they have from that:
They would have bought more aircraft than they actually intendened and instead of using one A380 a day they would need two 747 flights which would cause additional fuel costs.
If the A380 does not become a complete failure they will stick to it, Airbus will have to pay so much for the delay that it hurts and/or will offer them compensations like a very sweet deal on further A330/A340 or A320 for Jetstar to make an angry customer happy again.
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Stealthz
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:24 pm

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 24):
Qantas (and most airlines I would've thought) cannot afford to operate smaller aircraft on a higher number of services given cost of fuel, congestion and a stack of other factors.

Valid point but quite meaningless if the manufacturer of this wonderously more efficient(still to be proven in practice) larger aircraft cannot deliver them!

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 24):
I wouldn't even be surprised if Airbus were to offer further enhanced versions over the A340-500X and A340-600HGW to QF and SQ to hold them - they know that Qantas' B777/equivalent evaluation is still open.

And that would impress them.. NOT, given their current credibility and production issues where is Airbus going to get the engineering resources and the production resources to develop and build these "further enhanced versions". Q380, you make the point that having made those plans they would not want to change them and operate a completely different type yet you contradict yourself here by suggesting Airbus might offer them A345/6 variants, I would think integrating B748i into their network and fleet would be less of a drama than A345/6

Don't get me wrong I think the A380 is quite an achievement but I do think the management at Airbus underestimated the amount of time and effort it was going to take to get into service and then compounded that error by mismanaging the communication process with the customers.
Perhaps they deliberately misled their customers to get orders on the books hoping those airlines would be so commited to the product they could not change those plans and backout despite the delays that were inevitable.
I'll be polite and go with the former.

Cheers

[Edited 2006-06-22 07:33:13]
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zvezda
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):
if QF were to say: can you get us a 748i by Q2 2009, do you think it is doable?

No. I understand they are looking at Q1 2010 now for EIS.

If were running an airline with WhaleJets on order, the question most on my mind would be the likely resale value after 5 years. SQ got burned by the expectedly low resale value of the A340-500. Could QF and others be telling Airbus: "Give us guaranteed buyback clauses or we'll take the opportunity now to cancel."?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:34 pm

Quoting StealthZ (Reply 31):
I'll be polite and go with the former.

I wonder if Boeing's choice to go forward with the 748 last November was due to the looming major delays in the A380 and quiet requests by customers to give them a way out of their mess.

After all, Boeing was "not concerned" about the lack of orders so far, but predicted some major orders "this year" so maybe they were hedging for this scenario...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
After all, Boeing was "not concerned" about the lack of orders so far, but predicted some major orders "this year" so maybe they were hedging for this scenario...

Maybe I could add Boeing to my "conspiracy" theory, perhaps the most work they had done on the 748 prior to launch was write the Press release.
I am sure that with bunches of engineers having spent more than 30 years "What If-ing" the 747 program they had a pretty good idea what would work and what wouldn't, maybe they just announced and waited. Turning the old "build it and they will come" into "if they come we will build it"

Now before all the A.net "experts" jump down my throat I know it was not as simplistic as that.
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Oroka
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:10 pm

Airbus will have to make some sweet sweet compensation for QF appear if they want Qantas to get their A380s, which I completely expect them to do. Qantas will get some A380s, maybe all the ones they are committed to, maybe a few less, and they certainly will not exercise the options. QF needs the capacity as is overly stated. I also see Boeing loaning them a few 744s until their first few 748s show up. If QF keeps the A380s after the 748 EIS, that is up in the air. Maybe if FedEx wants a few more A380Fs and is willing to pay a reasonable price for them...
 
ebbuk
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 24):
SEND INSTANT MSG ADD TO RESP USERS SUGGEST DELETION QUOTE SELECTED TEXT
QantasA380 From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 55 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted Thu Jun 22 2006 05:12:36 UTC+2 and read 1192 times:

Just agree with everyone my friend. the a380 was mismanaged, was made with tax payers money, should never have been built, QF should never have agreed with the business model. blah blah blah

You will sleep better at night in these troubled times.

I don't know if you ever read the numerous 350/370 threads. There were posts from one a.net member who said that QR's personnel in charge of ordering the Airbus should now be fired for choosing a plane that no one wanted.

If everyone abandons the a380, should the airlines' particular personnel also lose their jobs for picking the whalejet? Dixon, Chow, Clark.... It's a given that some at Airbus must pay with blood.
 
ebbuk
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:36 pm

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 36):

If everyone abandons the a380, should the airlines' particular personnel also lose their jobs for picking the whalejet? Dixon, Chow, Clark.... It's a given that some at Airbus must pay with blood.

Just read the brilliant thread started by Leskova which shows that Clark is confident with the 380.

I think this is the time for Dixon to cancel QFs order and go with Boeing. It makes sense now to give EK a dominant capacity position all because QF loves the Boeing. Smart business, some of our a.net friends would say.
 
aeroplan73
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting Hrhf1 (Reply 4):
Yes, the carrot of having a plane delivered on time. :-P

I vote that Airbus moves it's entire operation to Canada, and merges with Bombardier.  cloudnine 
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anstar
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:44 pm

Dixon is still committed to the A380 in this news article. (which has more direct quotes from Dixon himself)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/business/...mbos/2006/06/22/1150845303424.html


Mr Dixon said he felt for Airbus and Qantas had no intention of changing its orders for what was still an "amazingly good aircraft".
 
Q330
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:45 pm

The 748 is still somewhat smaller than the A380, and the two could complement each other in the Qantas fleet. If the 380 proves successful on QF's highest-density routes, I can see more being ordered eventually, in addition to the 748s.

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:44 pm

Qantas is bitching and moaning, and rightly so, but in the end they will take delivery of the A380s that they have ordered- they are one of the few carriers than can truly but the A380 to good use on the LAX-SYD, LAX-MEL, LAX-BKK/SIN-SYD route, etc. QF is not going to change its entire business plan over the A380 delay......but Qantas is certainly going to make life for the Airbus execs a living hell for the next few months until it (a) becomes clear that Airbus can meet the current delivery schedule and that there will be no more delays, (b) can confirm that the A380 will deliver as promised on its performance guarantees - if the A380 misses on its range or fuel projections, its gonna get very ugly, and (c) it is certain that QF will get a nice big payment for its troubles - QF is looking for more than its contract amount.

As for QF and the 748i - it will happen - QF love the 747 and needs something in its fleet to bridge the gap between the 787 and A380........its not gonna be the stalled A345/A346, forget about that as QF did not want those types years ago and they certainly dont want them now, and from what we are hearing , its not the 773ER either. The 748i is the ideal aircraft for QF....it updates the 744, adds some range and versatility, QF can finally add the long discussed SYD-DFW route to link into the AA hub system, and its the right size.

Dont misread what was said - the intent was:

Qantas will buy more A380s or the 748i - not both....this makes sense, look for QF to move to a 737NG/787/748i/A380 fleet in the future.
 
mrcomet
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:06 pm

What is clear is tha that Boeing kind of screwed up by waiting as long as they did on the 748. They could have launched awhile back and then pushed GE for the engines sooner. If they had something ready to go in early 2009 they'd be in a much better situation.
The dude abides
 
dutchjet
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:12 pm

Quoting MrComet (Reply 42):
What is clear is tha that Boeing kind of screwed up by waiting as long as they did on the 748. They could have launched awhile back and then pushed GE for the engines sooner. If they had something ready to go in early 2009 they'd be in a much better situation.

But who knew that Airbus would run into these issues with the A380?
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:01 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 41):
if the A380 misses on its range or fuel projections, its gonna get very ugly,

In a posting to the Orders chat site, it is reported that LH are saying that the fuel burn is 3.2L/passenger/100km instead of the expected 2.9L/passenger/100km.
An OEW fugure of 289t is being used by Widebodyphotog in one of his most recent comparative mission analysis tables .Previously he was using circa 277t.
http://theaviationspecialist.com/350-550_mission_table.gif
All this is bad news and if essentially correct means heavy penalties payable to the operators.
 
Stealthz
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:16 pm

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 44):
3.2L/passenger/100km instead of the expected 2.9L/passenger/100km.

That is 10%, I am not sure how that stacks up with other new types on EIS but in my business, that is not missing the target.. that is someone just plain didn't do the math!
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
brendows
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:33 pm

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 44):
In a posting to the Orders chat site, it is reported that LH are saying that the fuel burn is 3.2L/passenger/100km instead of the expected 2.9L/passenger/100km.

But did LH come to this number by using ~500 seats, or with Airbus standard seating (555 seat)?
 
deltadc9
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 10):
has promisted certain performance and will be available at a given date which is closer than the B748Is.



Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 20):
including giving QF some 744's to use in the mean time to compensate for capacity until the 748's

With the 50% production increase of the 747 line announced recently, they could throw a few 744s at them.

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 23):
Qantas (and most airlines I would've thought) cannot afford to operate smaller aircraft on a higher number of services given cost of fuel, congestion and a stack of other factors.

Its just not that many seats different, and with the new study of a further stretch to 475 seats, its is almost negligable.

Quoting QantasA380 (Reply 24):
look at the B748 wing and the issues that came out of the A380 wing

The basic structure of the wing will remain the same, as will the jigs.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):
Can Boeing fast track the 748i since the 748F has done most of the wind tunnel testing already?

Probably not, but who knows? Boeing.

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 27):
People seem to be forgetting the decedas of experience of buidling the 747 that Boeing has under its belt.


Yes they do, but the customers do not. Cathay just ordered some 748F's

Quoting Columba (Reply 30):
They would have bought more aircraft than they actually intendened and instead of using one A380 a day they would need two 747 flights which would cause additional fuel costs.

That does not make any sense. There might be a 50 seat difference, maybe less.

Quoting MrComet (Reply 42):
What is clear is tha that Boeing kind of screwed up by waiting as long as they did on the 748.

Cant agree, they worked with thier customers until they had something that the customers wanted, waited for enough commitments to reduce the risk enough to offfer, and then went with it. It is called smart execution.

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 44):
In a posting to the Orders chat site, it is reported that LH are saying that the fuel burn is 3.2L/passenger/100km instead of the expected 2.9L/passenger/100km.
An OEW fugure of 289t is being used by Widebodyphotog in one of his most recent comparative mission analysis tables .Previously he was using circa 277t.

This is shocking. Why hasnt this been discussed more??????

[Edited 2006-06-22 14:36:11]

[Edited 2006-06-22 14:37:25]
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
columba
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:42 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 47):
Cathay just ordered some 748F's

They were -400Fs  Wink
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: Qantas Interested In 748 Dixon Says

Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:47 pm

Quoting Brendows (Reply 46):
But did LH come to this number by using ~500 seats, or with Airbus standard seating (555 seat)?

It doesn't matter, what it says if correct is that the fuel burn per unit of payload is 10% higher than planned. Part of this will be attributable to the increased OEW
which now goes from about 1103lb/passenger to 1150lb based on the 555 seat standard configuration.

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