DYK
Topic Author
Posts: 353
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QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:44 am

It is looking like Air Canada and Qantas will change there schedules ex YVR in the coming year. We have been told unofficially that Air Canada will drop AC033 YVR- SYD the same time Air Canada commences service from YYZ-LAX-SYD. Qantas has told us today the YVR-SYD route will become year round effective in 2007 with hopes the flight will eventually become non-stop.

I have to admit, if this actually happens i am kind of put off by Air Canada. They really should re-name themselves Air Toronto, our national carrier really does not see anything beyond the World's greatest city?,YYZ.
wonder what is next?
Maybe YYZ-MIA-BJS, or YYZ-SEA-NRT and so on.

Wish there was a western Canadian based carrier like the old Canadian to push this airline out of the west.!!
AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
 
Olympus69
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:09 am

Toronto's population is more than double Vancouver's. But Vancouver has something Toronto will never have - scenery. Smile
 
Cruiser
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:12 am

You have to realise that Air Canada will now have a fleet of the most capable commercial airliners in the world. As a result, they will use this to their advantage and will fly more planes from their main hub which is YYZ. Don't forget that there will be a YVR-LAX flight as well!

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting DYK (Thread starter):
I have to admit, if this actually happens i am kind of put off by Air Canada.

This validates , I believe, my view that YVR is overblown as a O/D point for service to the South Pacific. It only works now because of the feed's from cities to the east of it. These can be fed just as easily into LAX on existing services.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:21 am

I think Air Canada will undertake a broad expansion of North America - Australia ops, and will offer far greater capacity than QF. I also think they will alternate schedules to allow 2 departures every day...

My thinking for AC...

YVR-SYD non-stop daily.
YYZ-LAX-SYD daily, with feed from Canadian ports over LAX.

YVR-HNL-MEL resumption. B767, 3-4pw.

The LAX-SYD flight will be majority US pax, therefore the increase in Canada capacity is limited, even under the above scenario...
 
DYK
Topic Author
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:29 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 3):
This validates , I believe, my view that YVR is overblown as a O/D point for service to the South Pacific. It only works now because of the feed's from cities to the east of it. These can be fed just as easily into LAX on existing services

ya I totally agree with you? cant figure out why Qantas flies to vancovuer in the first place or why Air Canada does not fly YYZ-HNL-SYD? or even why Air new Zealand would be considering Vancouver. Despite Vancouver having a very large Australia and NZ expat poplulation it seems totally overblown.
AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting DYK (Thread starter):
We have been told unofficially that Air Canada will drop AC033 YVR- SYD

By whom?? It's our understanding within the company that the flight will remain until an aircraft capable of flying non-stop will be available for the route.

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 3):
This validates , I believe, my view that YVR is overblown as a O/D point for service to the South Pacific. It only works now because of the feed's from cities to the east of it.

And to Asia as well. The 340's flying from YYZ to NRT/PEK/PVG etc. are full, somewhat diluting the YVR loads. I think YVR will largely become a 787 operation to replace load levels consistent with the 767.

Quoting DYK (Reply 5):
why Air Canada does not fly YYZ-HNL-SYD?

As previously discussed YYZ-HNL is a low/no yield route, and was the big "dumping ground" flight for frequent flyer points. LAX has hub capability with flights converging upon it from YUL/YYZ/YYC/YEG/YVR..think this will be augmented by YOW & YWG as well in years to come.
Above and Beyond
 
6thfreedom
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:28 pm

Quoting DYK (Reply 5):
cant figure out why Qantas flies to vancovuer in the first place

perhaps beats leving the aircraft on the ground for 16 hours in SFO. what else do you do with it??

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 6):
It's our understanding within the company that the flight will remain until an aircraft capable of flying non-stop will be available for the route.

spot on. that's what i keep hearing. YVR-SYD either via HNl or non-stop will remain, regardless of what happens with YYZ-LAX-SYD.

Quoting DYK (Reply 5):
Air Canada does not fly YYZ-HNL-SYD?



Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 6):
As previously discussed YYZ-HNL is a low/no yield route,

this was tried when AC operated YYZ-HNL-MEL, connecting with YVR-HNL-SYD.
I still think this option has merit. timing was bad, with service slaunched post S11...
 
sebring
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting DYK (Thread starter):

I have to admit, if this actually happens i am kind of put off by Air Canada. They really should re-name themselves Air Toronto, our national carrier really does not see anything beyond the World's greatest city?,YYZ.
wonder what is next?
Maybe YYZ-MIA-BJS, or YYZ-SEA-NRT and so on.

Wish there was a western Canadian based carrier like the old Canadian to push this airline out of the west.!!

You will also be getting Vancouver-Guangzhou next year, but don't let that stop a good whine.
 
DYK
Topic Author
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting Sebring (Reply 8):
You will also be getting Vancouver-Guangzhou next year, but don't let that stop a good whine.

I believe when it happens, Until then, yes I am and Viva BC Libre
AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
 
ANother
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:34 pm

Quoting DYK (Reply 9):
Viva BC Libre

What language is that? Spenglaise? Frangish?
 
Jayce
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:02 pm

Personally, I think all the airlines should leave YVR and just fly to YYZ.  sarcastic 

QF and NZ are flying here because there is demand and it makes sense. YYZ has always been AC's "fortress hub", just as CP had YVR. I remember not too long before AC took over CP, CP had a plan to triple their number of daily departures out of YVR.

YVR just makes sense as a trans-Pacific gateway. Hopefully Harmony will pick up where CP left off. Let's not forget that YVR is the second busiest airport on the West Coast in terms of international passengers.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
anstar
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:47 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 4):
I think Air Canada will undertake a broad expansion of North America - Australia ops, and will offer far greater capacity than QF. I also think they will alternate schedules to allow 2 departures every day...

My thinking for AC...

YVR-SYD non-stop daily.
YYZ-LAX-SYD daily, with feed from Canadian ports over LAX.

YVR-HNL-MEL resumption. B767, 3-4pw.

AC won;t trump QF on USA-AUS capacity. QF have about 5 744's each day to the US - dont forget about their HNL service and JQ's new HNL service.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:32 pm

Any word on an AC YVR-AKL service? NZ have mooted this several times and it would be a great *alliance codeshare. Will we have to wait for the 787's to arrive?

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
VHVXB
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:40 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 7):
spot on. that's what i keep hearing. YVR-SYD either via HNl or non-stop will remain, regardless of what happens with YYZ-LAX-SYD.

Everytime i have family come from canada on this flight they always coment on how full it is all the time. There also seems to be limited capacity to YVR from SYD route. You currently have AC which is daily(double daily during Australian Summer), FJ which i think is 3 weekly and the same with QF. It would be good if AC kept this running even though they are starting the YYZ-SYD
 
6thfreedom
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Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 12):
AC won;t trump QF on USA-AUS capacity. QF have about 5 744's each day to the US - dont forget about their HNL service and JQ's new HNL service.

I said broad expansion on North America - Australia.... North America does not only mean USA!
I agree, AC won't trump QF to the USA, but I thnk they will stand their ground and take market share of Canada traffic.

QF shares equal market share with AC on Canada - SYD traffic, despite QF traffic having to transit in LAX in the past. From BNE and MEL, all of QF's Canada traffic is on LAX services. I think this is the market that AC will try to take back...

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 13):
Any word on an AC YVR-AKL service? NZ have mooted this several times and it would be a great *alliance codeshare. Will we have to wait for the 787's to arrive?

YVR-AKL is a B787 sector. Won't happen for a while. NZ will continue to feed traffic over SFO and LAX, and to a lesser degree HNL...
 
Motorhussy
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 15):
YVR-AKL is a B787 sector. Won't happen for a while. NZ will continue to feed traffic over SFO and LAX, and to a lesser degree HNL...

Chur Bro. I concur, but when I ski at Whistler/Blackcomb I want to fly direct and soon.
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
threepoint
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 3):
This validates , I believe, my view that YVR is overblown as a O/D point for service to the South Pacific. It only works now because of the feed's from cities to the east of it.



Quoting DYK (Reply 5):
Despite Vancouver having a very large Australia and NZ expat poplulation it seems totally overblown.

Perhaps what you two may have overlooked is that not all the traffic going to/from Australia is Vancouver O&D. The number of Canadians from the rest of Western Canada headed down under in the northern winter is immense, as are the numbers of Aussies flying the opposite direction to any number of interior ski resorts (several of which are Australian-owned). While the yields may certainly be lower than the business traffic out of YYZ, there are always full airplanes and profits to made by AC. Routing through LAX is a hassle due to the longer flight times and the US visa requirements.

I agree with 6th Freedom and FLYACYYZ when they predict the continuation of YVR-SYD services (with the aim towards non-stop flights with AC's new widebodies).
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
GuyBetsy1
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:04 pm

AC will most likely route people flying YVR - SYD to fly via LAX to connect on the flight from YYZ.

BUT they forget that many people does not like going through the US and be subjected to stupid INS questions...

"Why are you going to the US"

- Connecting to Sydney.

"Why can't you fly direct from Vancouver?"

- Because our moronic airline doesn't think of the needs of Canadians!

I will be flying QF next time, thank you.
 
airbear
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:08 pm

Why on earth - when talking about flying the AUST-USA route, does every airline want to fly from SYD to LAX? SYD, OK. It's the mani Aussie gateway. But contrary to popular opinion, we already have more than enough flts to the LA Zoo. Perhaps just not enough choice in carriers or Alliances. Some route swapping amongst the Star carriers would be good, if ever the Aust. govt stops asking "How high?" every time QF tells them to jump!

How about someone (Richard Branson & Brett Godfrey please take note...) going non-stop from SYD to some less congested or more convenient destinations like either LAS (good connections for Star, oneworld & Virgin), SJC (oneworld & Star) or PHX (oneowrld- BA-and Star courtesy of the AmWest/US merger) any of which should be able to be flown by current a/c.
 
accargo
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 18):
AC will most likely route people flying YVR - SYD to fly via LAX to connect on the flight from YYZ

Why, simply because you say so? Because you believe some unsubstantiated rumour posted on anet? What a crock. Enjoy QF through LAX or SFO, because guess what? QF does not have a non-stop from YVR to SYD.
 
FLYACYYZ
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New Air Agreement//Canada - Portugal

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 18):
"Why are you going to the US"

- Connecting to Sydney.

"Why can't you fly direct from Vancouver?"

- Because our moronic airline doesn't think of the needs of Canadians!

I will be flying QF next time, thank you.

Agree with ACCargo. Why don't we have this hypothetical "moronic" conversation, once flight 033 is wiped off the radar screen. Nothing more than pure speculation.  Yeah sure

And guess what. Flying on a direct flight on QF YVR-SFO-SYD, you're sorry little bum will probably be hauled off the aircraft at SFO so that US Customs can pocket a head tax for processing every originating Canadian passenger.
Above and Beyond
 
yvrsr
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:52 am

I have done YVR-HNL-SYD on AC several times during the past 3 years. I have taken the trip YVR-LAX-SYD once.

On the current YVR->HNL->SYD route one must pre-clear US customs and immigration in YVR. One the return trip SYD->HNL->YVR one must clear US customs and immigration in HNL. (The stop in HNL on the trip back to Canada is in the middle of the night. One gets off the plane, goes through US customs, waits for an hour or so, then gets back on the plane at 1 or 1:30AM.)

For a few short months Dec 2004 - Mar 2005. SYD -> YVR was nonstop and YVR->HNL->SYD had a technical stop in HNL where passengers did not have to clear US customs in YVR and did not get off the plane in HNL. (I did this trip once.)

Living in YVR, I would like to see more AC flights out of my home airport. However, an AC route out of LAX makes sense to me. Passengers can connect to LAX on AC from YVR, YEG, YYC, YYZ, YUL and have a one stop trip to Australia as opposed to a 2 stop trip from 4 of these cities. One has to clear US customs on the current route and the proposed routine. It would be better if the flight were YVR-LAX-SYD, but that's another story.

My gut feeling on the matter is that if YYZ-LAX-SYD goes ahead, then YVR-HNL-SYD or YVR-SYD nonstop will only operate during the northern winter, the time during which AC has recently had 2 daily flights to Australia.
 
2travel2know
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:02 am

All Via HNL or LAX?
Great news for those who don't mind going thru U.S. Port of Entry Facities at the Canadian Airports when flying to Australia.
If that's the mentality, then why not have daily YVR-HNL, some YYC/YWG-HNL and daily YYZ-HNL flights and make a hub in HNL with flights to SYD daily, MEL some days and AKL some days.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
DYK
Topic Author
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:29 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:07 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 21):
Agree with ACCargo. Why don't we have this hypothetical "moronic" conversation, once flight 033 is wiped off the radar screen. Nothing more than pure speculation.

I would think it is a very valid point now. Air Canada main focus in the development of future International routes in to/from Toronto. Air Canada views outside the Toronto hub; a bi-product.
AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:38 am

Quoting YVRSR (Reply 22):
Passengers can connect to LAX on AC from YVR, YEG, YYC, YYZ, YUL and have a one stop trip to Australia as opposed to a 2 stop trip from 4 of these cities.

I know that Sebring has provided insight into the choice of YYZ-LAX-SYD using the -LR instead of a direct YYZ-SYD flight with the -LR (something to do with payload and numer of passengers originating in YYZ), but I am going to throw it out there again:

Instead of making LAX the connecting hub for YUL, YYZ, YOW, YWG, YYC, YEG, and YVR traffic to SYD, why not replace LAX with YVR for all the connecting traffic and fly the -LR YVR-SYD direct, thus avoiding the hassle of connecting in the U.S.
 
yyztpa
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 25):

Instead of making LAX the connecting hub for YUL, YYZ, YOW, YWG, YYC, YEG, and YVR traffic to SYD, why not replace LAX with YVR

A couple of reasons:

I don't think AC is thinking all those seats are going to be filled with Canadian/Australian rear-ends. Think outside the 'Canada box' and remember the recently liberalized air agreement between US and Canada. LAX is a Star focus hub for how many carriers? How about a code share with UA for additional frequency on their service to SYD? How about US/HP codeshare to SYD?
How convenient would it be for those PHX/LAS/DEN passengers to head to YVR for a flight to SYD?

Also, T7 has a lot of belly cargo capacity...something needed on LAX-YYZ
 
travelin man
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 11):
Let's not forget that YVR is the second busiest airport on the West Coast in terms of international passengers.

It gets more int'l passengers than SFO or LAX? I'd be shocked if that were true.

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 18):
AC will most likely route people flying YVR - SYD to fly via LAX to connect on the flight from YYZ.

BUT they forget that many people does not like going through the US and be subjected to stupid INS questions...

"Why are you going to the US"

- Connecting to Sydney.

"Why can't you fly direct from Vancouver?"

- Because our moronic airline doesn't think of the needs of Canadians!

I will be flying QF next time, thank you.

If you do, you will still be subject to the same "stupid" questions. The QF flight goes through SFO.

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 25):
Instead of making LAX the connecting hub for YUL, YYZ, YOW, YWG, YYC, YEG, and YVR traffic to SYD, why not replace LAX with YVR for all the connecting traffic and fly the -LR YVR-SYD direct, thus avoiding the hassle of connecting in the U.S.

Not only is LAX a significant Star Alliance hub, there is a tremendous amount of O&D between Southern California and Australia. It seems that AC views that opportunity as much more substantial than any YVR opportunities. Why do some Canadians think it is a hassle to connect in the U.S.? You get to preclear Customs and Immigration in Canada, so connecting at LAX is no more difficult than connecting in YYZ or YVR (less so, probably, given LAX Terminal 2's fairly compact size).
 
Jayce
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 27):
there is a tremendous amount of O&D between Southern California and Australia. It seems that AC views that opportunity as much more substantial than any YVR opportunities.

Now I understand that the market is there for AC and yes, it does make economic sense. However, Air Canada should serve the needs of Canadians and let the American and Australian carriers worry about people in Southern California who would like to visit Australia.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
jacobin777
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:33 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 28):

Now I understand that the market is there for AC and yes, it does make economic sense. However, Air Canada should serve the needs of Canadians and let the American and Australian carriers worry about people in Southern California who would like to visit Australia.

Air Canada is looking to see where they can get the most profits with their planes...if it means flying YYZ-BUF, they will.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
DYK
Topic Author
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:29 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 28):
Now I understand that the market is there for AC and yes, it does make economic sense. However, Air Canada should serve the needs of Canadians and let the American and Australian carriers worry about people in Southern California who would like to visit Australia.

well said.

The new AC flight should route in YVR-LAX-SYD and AC should have a feeder flight from Toronto to LA. The West Coast of Canada particulalry Vancouver and Victoria historically have very close links with Australia in terms of trade, commerce and culture and still continues to this day.
Air Canada is looking out for Toronto and not the interest of Canada. The feds should quickly move to open up Canadian Airport other than YYZ & YUL to foreign carriers and leave AC out of any bi negotiations
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RP TPA
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:51 pm

Two things come to mind regarding this subject:

1) Don't forget...it's not just Canada to Australia, or Los Angeles to Australia we're talking about. It's all of the USA to Australia. USAirways and United will both feed this flight from across the USA to LAX. True, UA has their own flight, but they will most likely code-share on the AC aircraft and share some of the extra revenue.

2) Can anyone confirm that there is a substantial amount of cargo that regularly gets sent between YYZ and LAX? If true, the 777 would obviously have plenty of cargo capacity. I've read some posts alluding to that, but does anyone know more specific details??
 
EnviroTO
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:06 pm

Why would AC route a plane YVR-LAX-SYD when YVR-HNL-SYD or simply YVR-SYD direct once the new aircraft arrive makes more sense from YVR. YVR-LAX is a short route which works well for narrowbodied aircraft whereas YYZ-LAX is a longer route which would benefit from the larger aircraft and has a greater chance of selling first class seats. In addition YYZ-LAX-SYD is a direct routing and YYZ-YVR-SYD is not (the distance travelled in a YYZ-SYD and YYZ-LAX-SYD routing is identical whereas YVR to SYD via LAX is 10% further). I doubt western Canada will connect through LAX as much as they will through YVR anyways. It seems like western folks on here feel that Toronto's large population and Los Angeles' large population is somehow an anti-west conspiracy. Time to wake up to the fact that almost 1/3rd of Canada's population drives to YYZ as their closest international airport (the GTA alone is about 1/5th of Canada with 6 million people), and that over 2/3rds of Canada lives east of Lake Superior. It's not a conspiracy... its reality.
 
wunala
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RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:41 pm

I am going the SYD-YVR sector next month. Yes, there is a stop in SFO, but we are not thinking too much about that.

Why are we going to YVR?

Because we both were going to Europe, and wanted to do something different from SYD-SIN-LHR return. Now we are going to Canada and Alaska then onto Europe. This makes a bit more of a world tour than before.

We have not been to Canada before and really, really really (Like merick and rosso love sydney) want to go to Vancouver.
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Jayce (Reply 28):
ow I understand that the market is there for AC and yes, it does make economic sense. However, Air Canada should serve the needs of Canadians and let the American and Australian carriers worry about people in Southern California who would like to visit Australia.

So given this stand I guess you are in favour of the gov't taking control of Air Canada and making it a crown corporation without the need to be profitable again?

Air Canada should service the needs of it's shareholders first. If that doesn't fit in with your idea's of how it should operate then sorry for that. No one at AC has said anything about cancelling YVR-HNL-SYD. I would be very very surprised if it happened at all. YYZ-LAX-SYD will operate to feed pax from Eastern Canada and Southern California into Oz, while YVR-HNL-SYD will feed from Western Canada into HNL and Oz.

If in fact AC does cancel 033 and routes YVR pax through LAX then so be it. I don't see any other carriers lining up to fly YVR-SYD lately. Even QF routes through SFO.

The bottom line is Air Canada is going to operate it's flights from where it feels it can be most profitable, not where some people feel they deserve to fly from.
 
Jayce
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:06 am

Quoting Accargo (Reply 34):

So given your logic, it makes perfect sense for AC to route all of their flights through LAX, JFK or LHR simply because they can make more money than routing them through Canadian cities?

Quoting Accargo (Reply 34):
I don't see any other carriers lining up to fly YVR-SYD lately. Even QF routes through SFO.

Next year QF is going year-round on the SYD-SFO-YVR route and plans to fly non-stop to YVR in the future. We have the flag carriers of both Canada and Australia on the route-who else would line up to fly YVR-SYD?
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 35):
So given your logic, it makes perfect sense for AC to route all of their flights through LAX, JFK or LHR simply because they can make more money than routing them through Canadian cities?

If AC can be more profitable then YES. It's not owned by the gov't. It is a business that has a responsibility to shareholders.

Quoting Jayce (Reply 35):
Next year QF is going year-round on the SYD-SFO-YVR route and plans to fly non-stop to YVR in the future.

Next year AC is flying YYZ-LAX-SYD and until further advised YVR-HNL-SYD. If QF has plans to fly non-stop YVR-SYD (aside from any upguage just for the olympics) can you provide a link?

Quoting Jayce (Reply 35):
We have the flag carriers of both Canada and Australia on the route-who else would line up to fly YVR-SYD?

Exactly. There are only those two carriers because there simply isn't the demand or profitability for others to fly that route.


Finally and again, if you feel AC should look after Canadians rather than operate routes in a more profitable way should the gov't not buy them back and subsidize the losses?
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2628
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting GuyBetsy1 (Reply 18):
AC will most likely route people flying YVR - SYD to fly via LAX to connect on the flight from YYZ.



Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 32):
Why would AC route a plane YVR-LAX-SYD when YVR-HNL-SYD or simply YVR-SYD direct once the new aircraft arrive makes more sense from YVR. YVR-LAX is a short route which works well for narrowbodied aircraft whereas YYZ-LAX is a longer route which would benefit from the larger aircraft and has a greater chance of selling first class seats. In addition YYZ-LAX-SYD is a direct routing and YYZ-YVR-SYD is not (the distance travelled in a YYZ-SYD and YYZ-LAX-SYD routing is identical whereas YVR to SYD via LAX is 10% further)

I'm with ACCargo on this.

No one has suggested that YYZ-LAX-SYD will replace a YVR-SYD link, whether via HNL or non-stop.

I put 10 bucks on AC maintaining double daily.

any takers?

[Edited 2006-06-25 01:56:39]
 
Jayce
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:24 pm

Essentially what you're saying is that it would be perfectly alright for AC to fly from Canadian cities to an American gateway and then put them on a plane to an intercontinental destination? Wouldn't thier route map resemble that of an American carrier?

Yes, the concept of AC being a business and therefore having a responsibility to the shareholders is not lost on me. However, an airline exists to transport people. In AC's case, to transport people to and from Canada. Let the American carriers worry about flying people from LAX to SYD and concentrate on meeting the needs of the Canadian people. I don't feel that they should be bought by the government. It is possible make money flying routes out of Canada. Granted, on certain routes not as much as from select US cities but if that is their concern they should go and work for United or Northwest.

A friend of the family who flies the 767 for QF told me that they wish to eventually have a non-stop SYD-YVR flight if the route grows as expected.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:14 am

There are people in YYZ wanting to go to SYD. A direct route to SYD from YYZ passes over LAX. If AC needs to stop in LAX because the distance YYZ-SYD requires a stop for refueling then they might as well let passengers on and off. If AC needs to fill empty seats or a cargo hold in LAX because YYZ-SYD doesn't fill the entire plane then so be it. It makes no sense to fly a partially filled aircraft over a city with people wanting to go to SYD and to run out of gas over the Pacific. It is the most direct route YYZ-SYD and serving YYZ-LAX-SYD does serve Canadians both to LAX and to SYD. It's not a LAX-SYD route... its a YYZ-LAX-SYD route and last time I checked YYZ was part of Canada.
 
Jayce
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 27):
Quoting Jayce (Reply 11):
Let's not forget that YVR is the second busiest airport on the West Coast in terms of international passengers.

It gets more int'l passengers than SFO or LAX? I'd be shocked if that were true.

Well then shocked you are. According to the YVR website:
"YVR is Canada's second busiest airport, with some 16.4 million passengers (including same plane transit), approximately 223,700 tonnes of cargo and 278,500 take-offs and landings in 2005. YVR is the second largest international passenger gateway on the West Coast of North America. YVR is in operation 24-hours a day, 7 days a week, including round-the-clock customs and runway operations."

EnviroTO, I do see your point of view, I just disagree with the logic of AC. They are Canada's national airline and exist to serve the needs of Canadians. AC does not exist for Americans who want to go from LAX to SYD. They should also think outside their YYZ box and realize they have an entire coutry to serve, remembering they are Canada, not Air Ontario.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4407
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 40):
They are Canada's national airline and exist to serve the needs of Canadians.

Not since your government, of the time, sold it off to the private sector. AC ONLY responsiabilities (within the law) are to its shareholders, Unless there was something specific in the sale act, if so please enlighten us.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
QANTAS077
Posts: 5177
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:08 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting DYK (Thread starter):
They really should re-name themselves Air Toronto, our national carrier really does not see anything beyond the World's greatest city?

don't worry, we have Air Sydney down here...Qantas isn't interested in developing any routes west of Sydney. god help us if they did come up with something new!
 
Jayce
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:01 pm

Yes, I understand my idea of a country's national airlineactually serving the entire nation does sound a little far fetched.

I have no problem with an airline picking and choosing their routes so that they may maximize their profits. However, they shouldn't be our flag carrier. WestJet does a far better job of serving the people of Canada, albeit only domestically and transborder.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
RP TPA
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 1999 9:40 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:44 pm

Quoting Jayce (Reply 43):
WestJet does a far better job of serving the people of Canada, albeit only domestically and transborder.

I'm sitting here trying to understand the reasoning behind your statement. Are you saying that Westjet has more routes than AC? More domestic flights?More flights into the US? More service from YVR (domestically and transborder)? Is this about to become yet another AC vs WS topic?

Please provide more insight into your post, as I'm quite perplexed.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3204
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 40):
Well then shocked you are. According to the YVR website:
"YVR is Canada's second busiest airport, with some 16.4 million passengers (including same plane transit), approximately 223,700 tonnes of cargo and 278,500 take-offs and landings in 2005. YVR is the second largest international passenger gateway on the West Coast of North America. YVR is in operation 24-hours a day, 7 days a week, including round-the-clock customs and runway operations."

Interesting. I am shocked. I have to say, however, that I still do not fully believe it (even though the website said it). I am certain LAX is #1 on the West Coast when it comes to int'l passengers. As for #2, it must come down to SFO or YVR. Given UA's trans-Pacific hub is at SFO (and AC's trans-Pacific hub is at YVR), I am surprised that AC is bigger than UA across the Pacific from the West Coast.

That said, YVR is a very nice airport and, if we ignore market size, is immeasurably better than LAX to fly from.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:14 am

After all this I am totally confused. I need to go from Sydney (Aus) to Vancouver in mid 2007, and I am conscious of the hassles of having an intermediate stop in US territory. Are there any flights that avoid landing in the US other than going via Hong Kong or somewhere else interesting.

It seems QF does not fly direct. AC gives what seems a direct flight, but tells me that it is a 763, which rather looks like a stop in Honolulu and a nice chat with the good Feds at the end of a very long cattle race.

What are the options?
 
Jayce
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 1999 10:36 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting RP TPA (Reply 44):
Please provide more insight into your post, as I'm quite perplexed.

Yep, shouldn't be posting in forums when I'm tired.

WS, in my opinion at least, does a better job of serving the entire country, not just one pocket such as AC and YYZ. If you look at their route map, the (WS) flights are more evenly distributed from major cities than AC. Though historically, AC has been an Eastern airline. Out West we had CP, and when they were taken over by AC, AC continued their course of being a predominantly Eastern-focused carrier.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 45):
Travelin man

LAX was number 1, followed by YVR and then SFO. I saw a chart in the newspaper that I was trying to find that said YVR was very slightly ahead of SFO for international passengers, and had exact numbers but I cannot find it. I'll try finding it when I have some more time.
"Trying is the first step towards failure" -Homer Simpson
 
threepoint
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 46):
I need to go from Sydney (Aus) to Vancouver in mid 2007,



Quoting Baroque (Reply 46):
What are the options?



Quoting Baroque (Reply 46):
Are there any flights that avoid landing in the US other than going via Hong Kong or somewhere else interesting.

What, a transit lounge in HNL in the middle of the night isn't interesting?!?

Unfortunately Baroque, your options are currently limited to transiting through Asia or having that chat with US authorities. I anticipate this will be the case in mid-2007 when you fly. Wait for the arrival of AC's fleet of 777 & 787 aircraft for the possibility of Australia-Canada nonstop.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: QF & AC YVR To SYD

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:28 am

Quoting Jayce (Reply 40):
They should also think outside their YYZ box and realize they have an entire coutry to serve, remembering they are Canada, not Air Ontario.

Air Canada serves 26 domestic destinations from YVR, 13 US destinations, SYD via HNL, 6 Asian destinations, and a European destination. How does WestJet serve YVR better? That seems like fairly good service to me. From YYZ Air Canada flys to 28 domestic destinations... only 2 more than YVR. AC serves the entire Canadian population and there is greater population around YYZ hence more services for the city. You can't spread service evenly across the country when there are more people living in one part of the country than another. People in the Yukon shouldn't expect direct service to 26 domestic destinations any more than a person in YVR should expect equal service to YYZ, the market and population is completely different. Just look at the frequencies of US airlines into YYZ versus YVR... there are many more destinations and seats on US carriers into YYZ. It has nothing to do with US airlines being "Air Ontario USA Inc", it has to do with market and population. YVR will likely never have equal service compared to YYZ because it is unlikely the population in driving distance to the airport will ever surpass the population around YYZ and while being located on the Pacific gives it a "Pacific Gateway" advantage it gives it a domestic connections disadvantage and a disadvantage to Europe, Africa, and South America because a routing from most cities in Canada through YVR to those destinations is a route that takes people way out of their way.

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