Falcon84
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CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:59 am

Heavy thunderstorms have made a shambles of operations in/out of CLE today. Every arrival for CO between about 1545-1615 local, except one (including 67 from LGW) diverted to other stations due to the weather.

If you have a loved one moving through/in/out of CLE today, better call your airline, as flights are cancelling (at least for CO/COEX) to keep the operation running.

Working up here in Ops, I can tell you-it sucks.  Smile
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zrs70
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:05 am

Yuck. I am supposed to fly LAX-JFK tomorrow. I would imagine the weather in CLE will make its way to NYC just in time for my arrival at 3pm!
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okelleynyc
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 1):
Yuck. I am supposed to fly LAX-JFK tomorrow. I would imagine the weather in CLE will make its way to NYC just in time for my arrival at 3pm!

Yeppers! That's about right. We're due for several days of inclimate weather and especially bad tomorrow afternoon. At least it will wash away the smell of rotting trash and and that lovely aroma of warmed over pee in this hot and humid city - just lovely....

Good luck on your flight, I'll follow you via FlightAware and Live ATC... Big grin
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Falcon84
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:58 am

As of 1725 Eastern, CLE, IAH, PIT and CVG are all in ground stops due to weather.

So, 2 of CO's hubs are down. Maybe we should just tell EWR to do the same, just for the hell of it?  Big grin
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mbm3
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:28 am

We here in CLE have gotten nailed with summer thunderstorms for the past 3 days, most of which were conveniently timed during the peak periods at Hopkins....

Hang in there Falcon84!
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redngold
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:55 am

As the saying goes, "you don't like the weather in Cleveland? wait an hour!"

Air traffic isn't all that was backed up by this. I-90, both shoreways, I-77, I-480 from the Jennings to I-271, flooded streets, sewers... It was a mess. It will continue to be a mess for the next couple of days. Just thank God that the airport is on relatively high ground... because otherwise CO would have to start installing pontoons with those winglets!

Best wishes, Falcon...  Wink
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steeler83
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting Redngold (Reply 5):
Air traffic isn't all that was backed up by this. I-90, both shoreways, I-77, I-480 from the Jennings to I-271, flooded streets, sewers... It was a mess. It will continue to be a mess for the next couple of days. Just thank God that the airport is on relatively high ground... because otherwise CO would have to start installing pontoons with those winglets!

Best wishes, Falcon...

Yeah, that is a good thing to have that airport on hight ground. Hey, just like PIT. Those two cities have more in common than we think at times... Even PIT had some crappy wx today.

Coming back to CLE though... 80 min delays according to the Weather Channel. That makes PHL's delays seem like no big deal. OUCH!!!!! I hear that CLE is a pretty good airport. Excellent location, good terminal, hardly ever affected by weather or heavy traffic, unlike ORD, PHL, IAD, or JFK... That is really a shame...
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mbm3
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:32 pm

Given all of the thunderstorms that roll off of Lake Erie in the summer, sometimes I think it is easier to travel to/from CLE in the winter. At least they can land in the snow most of the time, unlike thunderstorms causing massive ground stops.
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atct
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:33 pm

Yea ive never really personally had a problem w/ delays in CLE...now ORD and EWR is a whole other story. Keep up the good work guys, CLE ops has a good reputation...coming from someone with a not so good one :P (Beverly Hillbillies theme.....)


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Gilligan
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:54 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Maybe we should just tell EWR to do the same, just for the hell of it?

You mean with the exception of 5 minutes before each hour that TEB isn't taking flights, they aren't always in a groundstop?  wink 

I had just gotten in from CVG yesterday when IAH got hit with a unexpected sea breeze thunderstorm. Officially at the airport they got half an inch. Just down the road from where I live, just north of the airport, 5 inches in just over an hour. I had pulled over because of the intensity and sitting in a parking lot I could hardly hear my wife on the cell phone because of the noise of the rain hitting the roof. In a matter of about 10 minutes the street went from dry to almost impassable because of water backing up at the storm sewer entrance. Too much volume not enough entrance. I can imagine what the ops situation at the airport was. Been there done that.
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dimoko
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:33 pm

I was returning to CLE from CLT last night, my flight was scheduled to leave at 9:55, and we were trying to skip ahead to an earlier one. but the 4:30 flight didnt leave until 8:30, and the 7:30 a few minutes after that.

so we hung around CLT (a very nice airport by the way) and i was able to get some good aircraft spotting in.

i will have a trip report up sometime today for the trip as a whole.
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mbm3
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:41 pm

My wife was scheduled to fly back from MDW on CoEx Monday night at about 19:30 local time. After she receive at least half a dozen messages regarding additional flight delays, she walked over to SW and got a $100 flight to CLE. Upon landing in CLE, she noticed that her original CO flight was not scheduled to arrive until the wee hours of the morning.

Just shows what weather can do to a hub and spoke operation system.
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CentPIT
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:09 am

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 11):
Just shows what weather can do to a hub and spoke operation system.

That seems weird, WN just got to choose if they wanted to fly out or what? I would have waited for my CO flight back to CLE!

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 6):
Even PIT had some crappy wx today.

We did, but I still saw some flights preparing for arrival! I think there was a departure delay of like 15 min or something for PIT, nothing too severe.
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mbm3
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:15 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 12):
That seems weird, WN just got to choose if they wanted to fly out or what? I would have waited for my CO flight back to CLE!

Actually, it was more of the case that WN's equipment was able to arrive at MDW. The CO equipment was mired in delays in CLE and points south and east.
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CentPIT
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 13):
The CO equipment was mired in delays in CLE and points south and east.

Oh, I see.
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steeler83
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:51 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 12):
We did, but I still saw some flights preparing for arrival! I think there was a departure delay of like 15 min or something for PIT, nothing too severe.

Sure, 15 minute delays are about as severe as the delays get there due to location; not too often is there any severe weather that could severely disrupt air travel there.

There was only one time I could remember when it was a nightmare trying to fly out of PIT due to bad weather... Late March, 1993. Then again, every place east of the Mississippi was shut down at that time... (The Superstorm of 1993...) Remember that, CentPIT?  Wink
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fxramper
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
IAH

The last week we've been getting 2-3 extra flights for IAH diversions. Sucks bigtime when your about to get off work and they make you clear out a gate and get ready for another Dc10.  no 
 
n471wn
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:10 am

I was scheduled on WN 313 on the 21st from CLE which had a scheduled depature for Chicago-Midway at 4:55 PM and we left at 11:30 PM----longest delay in my thousands of SWA flights over the 35 years I have been flying them---yes I was on one of their then only 4 planes (it went down to 3 soon) and I flew them in that first month between Dallas-Love and Houston-Hobby!
 
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:13 am

And CO 1833 (LGA-IAH) made a pit stop at HOU, where the weather was actually quite nice, and had a fuel truck put some fuel on board at their maintenance hangar before taking off again for IAH. With the stop at HOU included, I think 1833 only arrived about 1 hour late at IAH. We also saw a few DL MD-80's coming in too for refuge.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting Okelleynyc (Reply 2):
Good luck on your flight, I'll follow you via FlightAware and Live ATC...

Signed FLAIRPORT
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CentPIT
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 15):
There was only one time I could remember when it was a nightmare trying to fly out of PIT due to bad weather... Late March, 1993. Then again, every place east of the Mississippi was shut down at that time... (The Superstorm of 1993...) Remember that, CentPIT?

YES I DO! I was so little then, the snow was past my waist when I went outside! (HAHAHAHA) Good times!
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steeler83
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 20):
I was so little then, the snow was past my waist when I went outside! (HAHAHAHA) Good times!

I probably wasn't much older then myself; 3rd grade here. I remember seeing people stranded at PIT; they were there for like 3 DAYS!!! Some were sleeping on those metal semi-circle benches near the underground tram station in the airside terminal. Thank God for the Hyatt now!!!!!! I also noticed the ground being cleared away at the end of the parking lot. Maybe they should consider building another hotel on the property there!!!

Let's see...
-Completion of the Findlay connector of the Southern Beltway, the US22-I79 section construction hopefully about to begin...
-Increasing O&D...
-Additional carriers (B6) to boost up O&D even more...

I'd say they'd be able to use another hotel just for that, but as well as for inclimate weather accomodations too. There are several hotels over by the airside business park, but you still have to drive there from the airport...
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CentPIT
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 21):
Maybe they should consider building another hotel on the property there!!!

Yeah, from what I hear, the Hyatt at PIT does very well.
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steeler83
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 22):
Yeah, from what I hear, the Hyatt at PIT does very well.

I hear the same, but that is only one hotel that is right at the airport.
PHL has only one hotel right at the terminal, but it is one massive Marriott...

Considering the Hyatt at PIT...

1) It has limited accomodations regarding inclimate weather
2) Isn't it rather pricey? I believe it's a 4-star hotel IIRC...

I would consider building another couple of hotels at the other end of the parking lot. These are a few of the chains I'd consider if I was in any position...

Comfort Inn, Quality, Sleep Inn, Hampton Inn, Holiday Inn, Best Western...
I believe that there are already a handful of these near the business park as well, as I stated before...

Oh, Red Roof Inn and Econo Lodge are a couple of others too if they're not already located on or near Business60...
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redngold
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 7):
Given all of the thunderstorms that roll off of Lake Erie in the summer, sometimes I think it is easier to travel to/from CLE in the winter. At least they can land in the snow most of the time, unlike thunderstorms causing massive ground stops.

I've been caught in both types of delays at CLE. The first was Christmas 1999 when I was headed to Florida on USAirways, connecting in CLT. Whiteout conditions rolled in just as the inbound aircraft was trying to land, and it was diverted to CAK. The good news is that I managed to get out that day anyway, and I got rebooked CLE-PIT-TPA with a first class seat on the PIT-TPA leg!

The second one was Summer 2000, when I was booked CLE-ABE on a Beech 1900 Continental Express flight (back before they went all-jet.) There was a huge nasty storm front crossing the eastern US and I knew it was likely my flight would be delayed or cancelled, but despite frequent calls to CO, they kept saying it was "on time." So when I got to the airport, of course it was cancelled, as was nearly anything that was equipped with smaller than a 737 or going east of Pittsburgh. I stood in line like everyone else, waiting for rebooking, thinking I was going to miss my grandmother's 80th birthday party, but I managed to get rebooked CLE-PHL on a 735. The flight departed on time and it was the smoothest landing I've ever felt when we got into PHL.

I've also been delayed by weather flying TPA-DTW (see http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/23573/ )

CLE doesn't usually have fog problems, but the storms can get intense very quickly and then drop off suddenly as if they never happened. Even so, I don't think we're any more storm-prone than any other city.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 15):
(The Superstorm of 1993...)

Been there, done that. 18 inches in northern Delaware... they had not a clue what to do about it. I remember that PHL and BWI were closed or delayed for days, and some of our students worried about getting out for spring break (U.D. has late spring break due to a five week winter session.)
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steeler83
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 24):
first class seat on the PIT-TPA leg!

Do you remember what equipment that flight was?

Quoting Redngold (Reply 24):
despite frequent calls to CO, they kept saying it was "on time." So when I got to the airport, of course it was cancelled, as was nearly anything that was equipped with smaller than a 737 or going east of Pittsburgh.

Go figure... I never flew on any express aircraft, and that is one good reason why not to IMO...

Quoting Redngold (Reply 24):
CLE doesn't usually have fog problems, but the storms can get intense very quickly and then drop off suddenly as if they never happened. Even so, I don't think we're any more storm-prone than any other city.

I guess that is one other reason to Call Cleveland the "best location in the nation"  Smile
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Falcon84
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 24):
CLE doesn't usually have fog problems

Not often, but I can remember, has to be about 16 years ago or so, we had 3 of 4 Thursdays in the month of September one year, where the airport was completely fogged in for hours. And it happened on the same day of the week.

One of those days, my wife and I were flying to DSM to visit her family, and we were delayed on Midway Airlines for hours. Come to think of it, it must have been around '91, because our daugther was just a baby then. We wend CLE-MDW-DSM, about 3 hours late, and all the way, we had to listen to baseball Hall of Famer Bob Feller bitch about absolutely everything (I've rarely seen such a bitter old coot like him in my life.)

Fog doesn't happen often, but it does happen.
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steeler83
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:34 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
we had to listen to baseball Hall of Famer Bob Feller bitch about absolutely everything (I've rarely seen such a bitter old coot like him in my life.)

Sorry, I just have to laugh at that!!! That kind of stuff would keep me stimulated for hours. When isn't listening to some old fart acting like a preschooler funny??? Of course it's better when you have a visual aid  Wink
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masseybrown
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
we had to listen to baseball Hall of Famer Bob Feller bitch about absolutely everything (I've rarely seen such a bitter old coot like him in my life.)

That is his reputation.  Smile Somebody (Jim Palmer?) said it was Feller's idea to make people pay for autographs.
 
Falcon84
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 28):



That is his reputation. Somebody (Jim Palmer?) said it was Feller's idea to make people pay for autographs.

And the one person on the earth he despises more than anyone is Muhammed Ali, who he's still bitter at, 40 years later, for refusing to serve in the Armed Forces on religious grounds.

I think it's jealousy, for as great as Feller was at what he did, he can't stand that a black man, and a Muslim ,to boot, is revered around the world the way he is.
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redngold
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RE: CLE Ops A Shambles Today 6-22

Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 25):
Quoting Redngold (Reply 24):
first class seat on the PIT-TPA leg!

Do you remember what equipment that flight was?

I believe it was a 737-300 or 737-400, but at the time I wasn't paying attention. It was before my A.net days.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 26):
Quoting Redngold (Reply 24):
CLE doesn't usually have fog problems

Not often, but I can remember, has to be about 16 years ago or so, we had 3 of 4 Thursdays in the month of September one year, where the airport was completely fogged in for hours.

Yeah, I know, sometimes we do have fog, but we're nowhere near SFO in that category. One night I went out to "see" what the airport would be like in zero visibility, and I sat at the old intersection of IX Center Rd and Grayton, where we would pull right up to the perimeter fence. One after another, I'd hear the pilots contact the tower, get the RVR (no more than 1400 at any spot, if I remember correctly) and immediately announce their diversion plan. Most went to Columbus but I remember one went to Toledo. Some tried shooting the approach and I could hear them going around but I couldn't see them. It was pretty spectactular for flat grayness.
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