nuggetsyl
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Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:26 am

I have been looking on the net for 787 seating charts. I have not had any luck finding any. I want to see the lay out for the 787, and try to guess how many seats cal will have on there's. My guess for first class is 35 seats but i have no clue what to guess for coach.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:33 am

Nothing definitive yet as to the seat layout. We will know more probably next year summer or late.

Enquire with the training department, you'll get no where with base management.
You can't cure stupid
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:38 am

My guess/suggestion is to use the 764 chart and take it from there.....the big question is whether CO's 787s will have 8 or 9 abreast seating in economy. When CO first ordered the 787, we all assumed that it would be 8 abreast (2-4-2) with the 9 abreast (3-3-3) seating reserved for carriers that fly with higher density layouts, but when the entire A350 drama was playing itself out, and with all of the discussion of how the 787 could "comfortably" seat 9 accross while the A350 could not......it made me (and many others) wonder exactly what CO has in mind for its 787s.

Due to the wider fuselage, I think that BizFirst will be 6 abreast (2-2-2) with lie-flat sleeper seats (I am guessing here) so pitch will increase from 55" to atleast 62"......meaning that the 787s will not have my favorite seats..the individual D seat that is on the 767s.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:58 am

Wouldn't 9 abreast in a 787 push it closer to the 777 in terms of capacity--at least in CO config? I would think they would keep it at 8 abreast--but its pretty early to tell.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Due to the wider fuselage, I think that BizFirst will be 6 abreast (2-2-2) with lie-flat sleeper seats (I am guessing here) so pitch will increase from 55" to atleast 62"......meaning that the 787s will not have my favorite seats..the individual D seat that is on the 767s.

Dutchjet, I too see lie-flat sleepers as well as AVOD for all seats (coach too). I like the D seat too. You get served from both sides and no one to bother you.

One side note, our 757s will be getting VOD in coach. I just read a memo saying that they are going to upgrade the entertainment system starting next year.
You can't cure stupid
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:47 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 4):

Dutchjet, I too see lie-flat sleepers as well as AVOD for all seats (coach too). I like the D seat too. You get served from both sides and no one to bother you.

One side note, our 757s will be getting VOD in coach. I just read a memo saying that they are going to upgrade the entertainment system starting next year.

D is the best - I call in the anti-social seat.

The news about AVOD in Y on the 757s is just great - with the 752s flying so many longer routes, it did need an upgrade in the IFE department. There will be four 752 upgrade programs going on: BF to AVOD, Y to AVOD, Winglets, and the conversion of remaining domestic F 752s to BF config. Busy times. It will be interesting to hear when all 41 752s have all four of the upgrades done.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:51 am

That will make the 757 a pleasure to fly in Y.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
nuggetsyl
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:01 am

I was told that if avod was put into coach, it would weigh to much and hit us hard with distance the plane could fly.
 
777gk
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:17 pm

There was a plan to retrofit the 752s with new seats similar to the 757-300s floating around about a year ago that never fully materialized. I would venture to say that this latest retrofit would include new seats designed to negate any weight penalties new IFE equipment would bring. Even with new seats, the next-generation IFE systems are far more adaptable to narrowbody applications (e.g., no armrest-mounted PCU, hard drive instead of tape decks use less space/weight, etc.) and this should make our transatlantic 757 product a very competitive option.
 
drnate00
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:25 am

I recently flew on a CO 752 from EWR to DUB and it had the new 757-300 seats, which were much more spacious but not enough cushioning. And no AVOD yet.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Drnate00 (Reply 9):
I recently flew on a CO 752 from EWR to DUB and it had the new 757-300 seats, which were much more spacious but not enough cushioning. And no AVOD yet.

First, if you had the new seats, you were in coach, thus certainly no AVOD....no CO 752 has PTVs or AVOD in Y class yet.....from the info provided above, maybe next year, there has been no official announcement yet.

And, are you sure that your 752 had "753 style" seats......I was not aware that any 752s had been updated and I thought the program was scrapped. I heard that CO would wait until a decision was made on AVOD and PTVs for Y and do both projects together....I also heard that with the newer seats, pitch increases on the 752 to almost 32" in coach (like the 753 and 767s).

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 7):
I was told that if avod was put into coach, it would weigh to much and hit us hard with distance the plane could fly.

I heard this too, but its more complicated than that.....the new AVOD IFE system actually weighs less and takes up far less room that the old system, even if the system is to be extended to the Y cabin, the weights will be OK. But there is another issue, with the new AVOD system, CO was able to remove the video cabin by door 2L and put back 3 coach seats (thus AVOD equipped 752s have 159 coach seats, just like the old domestic layout) and 3 more pax with luggage for 3 more people adds weight. Its only an issue where the 752 is hitting its operational limit.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 3):
Wouldn't 9 abreast in a 787 push it closer to the 777 in terms of capacity--at least in CO config? I would think they would keep it at 8 abreast--but its pretty early to tell.

While I can see CO putting 9Y and matching seat width on the 757 and 737 product for more pax, I can also see them doing 8Y and using these jets on the longest routes. The 787 has a range range, as it were, where at 9Y it has less range than at 8Y. Doing 6J/8Y would allow CO to use the jet with plenty of cargo on routes like EWR-HKG and other very long routes the 777 is currently limited on. I could see 4 of the 788s being put on this route, upping frequency 2 twice a day, as well as 2 more going on IAH-HKG, and other routes like IAH-GUM, IAH-SYD while far fetched, are doable in the lower density config, and offer lucrative cargo potential...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):

While I can see CO putting 9Y and matching seat width on the 757 and 737 product for more pax, I can also see them doing 8Y and using these jets on the longest routes. The 787 has a range range, as it were, where at 9Y it has less range than at 8Y. Doing 6J/8Y would allow CO to use the jet with plenty of cargo on routes like EWR-HKG and other very long routes the 777 is currently limited on. I could see 4 of the 788s being put on this route, upping frequency 2 twice a day, as well as 2 more going on IAH-HKG, and other routes like IAH-GUM, IAH-SYD while far fetched, are doable in the lower density config, and offer lucrative cargo potential...

Interesting point - I had not thought of that. No one yet knows what missions CO will use the 787 on....many have assumed that the 787 will be used to continue CO's transatlantic expansion as CO will finally not be limited to the 757 for new routes. New transatlantic routes from IAH and EWR are planned, we know that, but not much has been said about Pacific and very long range flights.

On the other hand, will the exact missions affect COs 8 vs 9 abreast in economy decision - dont know......I am very much hoping for 8 abreast in coach in keeping with CO's image as a comfortable full service carrier.
 
desertjets
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
but not much has been said about Pacific and very long range flights.

Actually that is a VERY interesting proposition. I am certainly not alone in assuming that most, if not all, trans-Pac expansion would be w/ the 777. I guess it all depends on what, if any, performance differences there will be w/ a 9Y vs 8Y setup. One possibility would be to have a Pacific config and an Atlantic config for the 787 fleet. And given the longer stage lengths of a transpac vs. an atlantic flight it would be possible to isolate both fleets. But it would create a fleet utlization inefficiency that CO seems to try to avoid as much as possible w/ their aircraft.

Though it seems that with the exception of some very long flights like EWR-HKG, most any major current or future Asian destination (thinking mainland China, ICN, NRT, KIX, NGO, etc...) wouldn't be pushing the limits of the 787 even w/ a higher capacity layout.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
ord
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
When CO first ordered the 787, we all assumed that it would be 8 abreast (2-4-2)

If it's 8-abreast, who says it won't be Boeing's highly touted 3-2-3? With this layout, the plane needs to be 62.5% full before you have somebody seated right next to you.

With 2-4-2, chances are greater you'll have someone seated next to you since the plane needs to be 50% full for this to happen.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 12):
New transatlantic routes from IAH and EWR are planned, we know that, but not much has been said about Pacific and very long range flights.

Every route the 788 takes over for the 777 for frees the 777 up for shorter long-haul routes and mid-haul routes. Every route the 777 can stay on or take back over from the 764, the 764 can go back to routes that they are now flying 762+752, etc.

It's a trickle down, and the trickle down will free up 767s until they are out of the fleet. That won't be with the first wave of 10 787s. It'll be the second wave of 787s that will be used to replace the 767s, at least how I see it...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:29 am

I just look forward to the certification of the aircraft (would love to be involved with it), set up with regards to how the galleys will be constructed (see earlier parentheses) and where it will be flying. I believe that we want to fly to BOM and BLR with them in '09.
You can't cure stupid
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:44 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):

Every route the 788 takes over for the 777 for frees the 777 up for shorter long-haul routes and mid-haul routes. Every route the 777 can stay on or take back over from the 764, the 764 can go back to routes that they are now flying 762+752, etc.

It's a trickle down, and the trickle down will free up 767s until they are out of the fleet. That won't be with the first wave of 10 787s. It'll be the second wave of 787s that will be used to replace the 767s, at least how I see it...

Of course I understand that the arrival of the 787 at CO will result in many changes in aircraft allocations on longhaul routes. I do believe that the majority of 787s will directly or indirectly be used for expansion, opening new routes to new cities. And, I disagree with you concerning the 762ERs....I dont think that they are going anywhere in the medium-term future, the 762ER is ideal for many thin longhaul routes from both IAH and EWR to Europe; also consider that CO would like to have two banks of European departures out of EWR year round to key European cities which will require aircraft....and there are certain routes now operated with the 752 that would be much better served with the 762 for operational reasons.

It will be interesting to watch.....the 787 will change the CO network.
 
drnate00
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:56 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 10):
First, if you had the new seats, you were in coach, thus certainly no AVOD....no CO 752 has PTVs or AVOD in Y class yet.....from the info provided above, maybe next year, there has been no official announcement yet.

And, are you sure that your 752 had "753 style" seats......I was not aware that any 752s had been updated and I thought the program was scrapped. I heard that CO would wait until a decision was made on AVOD and PTVs for Y and do both projects together....I also heard that with the newer seats, pitch increases on the 752 to almost 32" in coach (like the 753 and 767s).

Yes I was on one of the 752's with 753 style interiors, which this aircraft also has winglets. How was I able to tell? On my first flight up I was on a 752 without winglets, so on a 5 1/2 hour crossing and couldnt sleep I asked one of the flight attendants why these seats were different on this plane compared to the one I was on from MCO, and his reply was that they are a new set of seats that they are trying out (they also had less width compared to the old style). Second they have empty metal boxes under the B and E seats which leads me to possible AVOD instillation, and third they have power ports in some seats, but not all....unfortunatley I didnt have one.
 
burnsie28
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:23 pm

I would imagine Continental's would be somewhat close to NW's. NW's will have 36 in WBC, and 185 in Coach.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 3:32 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
And, I disagree with you concerning the 762ERs...

I would agree with you too, but recently CO connected people on these boards have said CO wants them out of the fleet when possible because in this fuel environment, they are just not efficient anymore.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):

I would agree with you too, but recently CO connected people on these boards have said CO wants them out of the fleet when possible because in this fuel environment, they are just not efficient anymore.

Then we will agree to disagree on this point.......out of the fleet when possible is an open ended statement.
 
nuggetsyl
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:12 am

I do not see why continental would get rid of the 767. We have 25 767s and 20 787's on order. If we get rid of the 767's when the 787's come in we will have 5 less aircraft. I hope cal will keep all the widbodies it can.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 22):
I do not see why continental would get rid of the 767. We have 25 767s and 20 787's on order. If we get rid of the 767's when the 787's come in we will have 5 less aircraft. I hope cal will keep all the widbodies it can.

I believe that he is only talking about the 762s (not the 764s)........CO has 16 764s and 10 762s......the theory is that 10 762s will be replaced with 20 787s....for a gain of ten.

As stated, I dont think that this will happen and CO will continue to fly the 762 until the "next" 787 order when it will consider replacing its entire 767 fleet with the new type.
 
nuggetsyl
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:22 am

I think we own 9 of the 10 767's-200. If that is true and we are going to keep 767-400 why get rid of them at all when we have routes that make money and need the range.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 24):
I think we own 9 of the 10 767's-200. If that is true and we are going to keep 767-400 why get rid of them at all when we have routes that make money and need the range.

I agree, and I think that is what will happen..........note that the argument against keeping the 762ER is its fuel performance.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting Nuggetsyl (Reply 7):
I was told that if avod was put into coach, it would weigh to much and hit us hard with distance the plane could fly.



Quoting 777gk (Reply 8):
There was a plan to retrofit the 752s with new seats similar to the 757-300s floating around about a year ago that never fully materialized. I would venture to say that this latest retrofit would include new seats designed to negate any weight penalties new IFE equipment would bring. Even with new seats, the next-generation IFE systems are far more adaptable to narrowbody applications (e.g., no armrest-mounted PCU, hard drive instead of tape decks use less space/weight, etc.) and this should make our transatlantic 757 product a very competitive option.

The Panasonic eFX is the lightest, most advanced system out there. Each VSEBQ underseat box can serve 9 seats versus 3 for most other AVOD systems, plus the eFx VSEBQ boxes are considerably smaller. They take up virtually no legroom, unlike most systems which are like having a PC base unit jammed into your leg-space. Here are a few pictures of the eFx underseat boxes;

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/6116/efx5ye.jpg

However the toyal system weight on a 258-seat 767 is still 2600lb (1180kg) of which each of the 33 underseat boxes weighs only 4lb (1.82kg) - so there will be a signficant weight penalty on the 757 when the system is installed, especially when it's range is somewhat marginal under certain conditions.

A rough pro-rata figure for Continental's 172 seat 757s would be 1740lb (790kg) this could be more than offset by a combination of the following;
- Removal of the overhead video system and associated equipment
- Installation of a lighter seat-design
- Efficiency increases with winglets
- Reducing the seat count

When we installed the system on our 767s the weight was offset by reducing the seat count and installing the Boeing enhanced interior, which is lighter, this also included removal of all overhead video equipment.



Quoting Drnate00 (Reply 18):
They have empty metal boxes under the B and E seats which leads me to possible AVOD instillation

Every IFE system (including non-PTV ones) have some form of underseat box - I'd be surprised if Continental had installed empty boxes under the seats. Also if there were 2 under every row they certainly weren't the eFx boxes which would average less than 1 per row on the 757 (serving 9 seats)

In all, it's quite an impressive system...

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
dutchjet
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RE: Co 787 Seating

Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 26):
- Removal of the overhead video system and associated equipment
- Installation of a lighter seat-design
- Efficiency increases with winglets
- Reducing the seat count

Thanks for the info - very interesting indeed.

With the new AVOD system - CO could remove the rather heavy old fashioned system that serviced the PTVs in business first - that was a big weight savings. As you pointed out, the extra weight of the "Boxes" for Y class (1 per 9 pax) would be added. Would CO eliminate the overhead system? No one has spoken about this - on the 767/777 there are PTVs and the overheads - overheads utilized for safety videos, etc and the inflight map. Last point, as mentioned above, with the new system, the seat count of the 757s actually increased since the old video system was removed - 3 coach seats were added.