mptpa
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Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:42 am

I am just curious as to why continental's a/c reg has just N and 5 digits, as opposed to N###CO or N###CA for ex.
 
SPREE34
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:45 am

I guess they just don't waste the effort on it. Sort of like most people don't go for the vanity license plates on their cars.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
futureuapilot
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:59 am

It makes it easier to assign ship numbers as well as tail numbers. CO has the last three numbers of the tail number stand for the ship number. For example:

N77014 = Ship 014
N18658 = Ship 658
N83870 = Ship 870

Hope this helps!

-Sam
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BA787
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:09 am

Aren't some of the older AA models like this as well . The A306 fleet springs to mind. Maybe CO just couldn't be bothered to change the number pattern and kept it the same to make it easier for us spotters  optimist 

Tom Big grin
 
Lt-AWACS
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:22 am

well IIRC, I don't think they can use the O (Oscar) since it can be confused with a 0 (zero)

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KingAir200
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 4):
well IIRC, I don't think they can use the O (Oscar) since it can be confused with a 0 (zero)

That is correct. O and I cannot be used in n numbers to avoid confusion with 0 and 1.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:38 am

Simply style and tradition.......as pointed out, the last digits of CO's registrations are the tail numbers which is convenient.

Side note: years ago, when CO was intergrating the ex PE/Frontier One, NY Air, fleet into its operations, and in the past when CO has purchased second hand aircraft, it took them "forever" to change aircraft registration numbers........a few of the MD80s flew with their NY Air registration until their retirement I think. Anyone know why?
 
Max Q
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:52 am

Dutchjet

It costs money to change the Registration, and there was none to spare.
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rikkus67
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:02 am

The cost is supposedly minimal to change registration in the USA. I am sure it was more of a maintainence issue, rather than a financial one. However, that would depends on the number of airvcraft to re-register. Take for instance Delta. When they integrated the Western fleet, all of Westerns' aircraft kept their "W" designation.

Up here in Canada, with the merger of Pacific Western and CP Air/Canadian Pacific into Canadi>n, and then eventually Canadi>n into Air Canada, the registrations (all alphabetical) all stayed with the original aircraft. In some instances, you can still find remnants of the original owners:

C-GPW# (Pacific Western)
C-FCP# (CP Air / Canadian Pacific)
C-FCA# (Canadi>n) ...as a review the ">" took the place of the "a" in the english spelling, and the "e" in the french spelling.
AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 7):
It costs money to change the Registration

Max Q is correct. The cost the FAA charges is based on the type and gross weight of the aircraft, the heavier it is, the more it costs. In the case of used airplanes, if it is registered, almost anywhere, it can still fly in the US. So, this is an added cost. AA did not re-register any of the former TWA aircraft
 
geebs
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:24 am

I was actually gonna ask the same question... thanx mptpa hehe
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:43 am

I was told by the captain on my IAH-LAX flight on Jan. 3 that it had something to do with most of the aircraft having been leased. Is there any truth to that, as well??

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MaartenV
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 11):
I was told by the captain on my IAH-LAX flight on Jan. 3 that it had something to do with most of the aircraft having been leased. Is there any truth to that, as well??

Yes, isn't that the reason why Southwest hasn't re-registrated some of its second hand planes, while they re-registrated other planes which came in a the same time, because some owners didn't want the aircraft to be re-registrated?
Its all about supply and demand...
 
mptpa
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:53 am

I knew about not being able to use I and O, but was not sure of the nomenclature. The tail number scheme makes sense.

Thx
 
dutchjet
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 7):
Dutchjet

It costs money to change the Registration, and there was none to spare.

The cost is minimal.....and CO paid the fee to reserve the new 5 digit registration number for each of the subject aircraft, but never followed through to actually re-register the airplanes. Very odd indeed.
 
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RobK
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:57 am

There is a sequence to their registrations.

The first two numbers are random, the third digit dictates what type it is and then the last two are the sequence within that type.

Eg.

Nxx0xx 001-049 are 772ERS, 050-099 are 764ERs
Nxx1xx 101-149 are 757s, 150-199 are 762ERs
Nxx2xx are 738s
Nxx3xx are 733s
Nxx4xx are 739s
Nxx5xx are 738s (on order)
Nxx6xx are 735s
Nxx7xx are 737s
Nxx8xx are 753s (were MD80s)

 spin 

R
 
dutchjet
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 15):
There is a sequence to their registrations.

The first two numbers are random, the third digit dictates what type it is and then the last two are the sequence within that type.

Eg.


R

Bonus question - which digit will the 787s take?
 
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RobK
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
Bonus question - which digit will the 787s take?

Pass. 9 would seem the likely candidate.

R
 
EMBQA
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Mptpa (Thread starter):
I am just curious as to why continental's a/c reg has just N and 5 digits, as opposed to N###CO or N###CA for ex.

First, there is no FAA regulation that says there must be letters at the end of registration. Continental chooses to use just numbers as RobK says below..

Quoting RobK (Reply 15):
There is a sequence to their registrations.

The same holds true with ExpressJet planes. Give just the tail number to an employee of CO and they could tell you what type of plane it is... and what sequance it is in that group of planes. They use this for several things: Maintenance planning, tracking, scheduling just to name a few........
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ewrw4co
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:05 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 17):
Pass. 9 would seem the likely candidate.

9 are currently used for ERJ's
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monorail
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):
and in the past when CO has purchased second hand aircraft, it took them "forever" to change aircraft registration numbers

I remember flying on N938AS with CO back in 2000. CO began flying that ship in 1996 and I don't believe they ever reregistered it. It's funny that CO flew that Mad Dog for several years still with an Alaska reg but they didn't waste any time reregistering the 753's they took from TZ.
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Amazonphil
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 15):
Nxx0xx 001-049 are 772ERS, 050-099 are 764ERs
Nxx1xx 101-149 are 757s, 150-199 are 762ERs
Nxx2xx are 738s
Nxx3xx are 733s
Nxx4xx are 739s
Nxx5xx are 738s (on order)
Nxx6xx are 735s
Nxx7xx are 737s
Nxx8xx are 753s (were MD80s)

As it were, in case anybody wondered, the 737-500 didn't received the 500 seris ship numbers because we had DC-9-30's at the time when we got that "terrific deal" from Boeing to acquire the 735 and the DC-9-30's had the 500 seris numbers. Same for the 738 as we had MD-80's, which had 800 numbered ships,but as mentioned above the 800 numbers went to the 757-300. Incidently, the 737 was originally the 737-100 in CAL's fleet but now is the 73G or 737-700. Not sure why the 739 didn't get 900 seris numbers for simplicity as we don't and didn't have any fleet types using the 900 seris numbers. Cont. Express uses the 900 numbers for a handfull of the EMB-145 but they have nothing to do with CAL in this regard,

Regards,
amazonphil
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3201
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:10 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 18):
The same holds true with ExpressJet planes. Give just the tail number to an employee of CO and they could tell you what type of plane it is... and what sequance it is in that group of planes.

This is true for most US airlines that use letters at the end, and for many foreign airlines as well. Everyone has patterns, you don't need to stick to numbers for that.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 6):

Side note: years ago, when CO was intergrating the ex PE/Frontier One, NY Air, fleet into its operations, and in the past when CO has purchased second hand aircraft, it took them "forever" to change aircraft registration numbers........

NWA's DC9's (when will they be retired, anyway? and what will they be replaced with?) are fantastic in this respect... still some NxxxNC and NxxxRW flying or parked while still wearing those numbers, and NxxxxE, NxxxxT, Nxxxx, NxxxN, etc.
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EMBQA
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting 3201 (Reply 23):
This is true for most US airlines that use letters at the end

How would it work then...?? There is no way to do it...??

[Edited 2006-06-25 04:19:05]
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jetstar
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:24 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
Max Q is correct. The cost the FAA charges is based on the type and gross weight of the aircraft, the heavier it is, the more it costs. In the case of used airplanes, if it is registered, almost anywhere, it can still fly in the US. So, this is an added cost. AA did not re-register any of the former TWA aircraft

Aircraft type or weight has nothing to do with the cost of registering an airplane with the FAA. The registration cost is only $10.00 and has been for over 20 years.

The other costs involved are actually changing the number on the airplane either by painting or the use of decals. Logbooks do not have to be replaced, all that is required is a logbook entry stating that on this date the number has been changed to N______.

Leased aircraft will probably require all the aircraft lease paperwork be changed for the lease to remain legal and I would guess that it is not worth the effort.
 
MakeMinesLAX
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:19 pm

TWA was all over the place like that in earlier times. For example:

L-1011
N31001
N11002-06
N31008-11
N41012
N31013-15
N41016
N15017
...

727-231
N12301-08
N52309-13
N94314
N64315
N44316
N74317-18
....

Eventually, they settled into a N###TW pattern, however.
 
kangarooman
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:49 pm

Hi all

this seems like the right thread to ask my question

I've always wondered why does US have some N###US reg's and N###UW reg's on there A330's

the picture on the left is a UW and the one on the right a US


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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:01 am

SOme DL regs are painted on the plane without the last letter but have it eg N1200 is what is painted on the plane but the actual reg is N1200K
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lincoln
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:06 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 28):
SOme DL regs are painted on the plane without the last letter but have it eg N1200 is what is painted on the plane but the actual reg is N1200K

Is that legal? I don't have time right now to go FAR digging, but I was pretty sure that the complete reg number had to be painted on the aft part of the fuselage (or engine mounts if an integral part of the aft structure of the aircraft) in digits at least 12" high.

After all, what would prevent confusion with whatever bird really had N1200 registered?

Lincoln
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D L X
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting KangarooMAN (Reply 27):
I've always wondered why does US have some N###US reg's and N###UW reg's on there A330's

US has a lot of different endings to their codes. Most are US or UW, but some are VJ (for "VistaJet", and old tradename used by USAir before the merger with PI), AU (don't know why), and now of course AW (former America West jets). The problem with keeping all their jets ending with US is that this silly airline named NWA decided long ago to end their regs with US (amongst other endings like NW). So, usually if the US reg ends with "UW", it's because NWA took the "US" version.
 
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RobK
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 28):
SOme DL regs are painted on the plane without the last letter but have it eg N1200 is what is painted on the plane but the actual reg is N1200K

Sorry but that is just not true. N1200 is officially registered to a glider. N1200K is registered as such and that is the reg painted on the aircraft. It can't fly without it. If you disagree, please provide photographic evidence to back up your tale.

R
 
WesternA318
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 8):
Take for instance Delta. When they integrated the Western fleet, all of Westerns' aircraft kept their "W" designation.

Correction, all of the 727-200's, 737-300's, and DC-10's kept the "W" or "WA" registrations, while a good deal (not all to be sure) of the 737-200's recieved "DL" registrations.
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4everRC
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting KangarooMAN (Reply 27):
I've always wondered why does US have some N###US reg's and N###UW reg's on there A330's

IIRC - different leasing companies have different requirements for registering aircraft. At NW, there is a slew of A319/320's are registered with N### NB, and I was told that it was to identify "their aircraft".
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Cactus739
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:08 am

I guess the best answer to use is because they want to?  Smile
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iahcsr
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Ewrw4co (Reply 19):
9 are currently used for ERJ's

This is true. But COex/ExpressJet ERJ's have Ships in 1xx, 5xx as well as 9xx. So when the need arises, CO will also make use of 9xx. The only real issue with overlapping numbers with CO and RU craft is Sonic/Shares software will only allow one plane to have that number. All RU flights using Ships 1xx and 5xx show as a generic Ship 100 or 500 in Fltfo. Only flights using 9xx ships will indicate the actual Ship number being used.  eek 
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3201
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RE: Why Are CO Aircraft Reg Just N#####?

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 23):
How would it work then...?? There is no way to do it...??

The short answer is that the three numbers that end a CO reg are equivalent to the three that start other reg's. Instead of two meaningless digits before, they have two meaningless letters after. No big deal. Unless I'm missing something super-subtle in what you said. It doesn't break down until you're flying 1000 tails. But lots of airlines do this for some or all of their fleets.
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