kaitak
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Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:42 pm

Dia dhaoibh a chairde agus failte romhaibh ar bhoird - welcome to the new Irish aviation thread and as they say in Chicago (other than "I really hope there's just a violin in that violin case"), "no smoking, littering or radio playing". Buckle up and let's roll ...

Well, we're heading into the Summer recess, politically speaking, and when they come back, tanned, excited and ready to pour fulsome thought and energy into aviation, we're looking at a very interesting few months.

Aer Lingus could be privatised within three months and it looks very much like the govt wil try and push through legislation on this before the Dail (and presumably the govt) breaks up. It's perhaps a good example of the biggest problem facing EI, that the biggest challenges and obstacles it faces are almost completely beyond its control. It can't influence the political process and you can expect - much as in the US - a lot of muscle flexing in the lead up to the election and a lot of rearguard action to prevent or undermine the privatisation process. The Dear Leader will be very nervous on two fronts: firstly, privatisation will upset (unreasonably, but it will still do so) many people in North Dublin and changes to the stopover will upset people in Clare and the West. But if he doesn't move forward, the PDs could pull out.

EI can only wait in hope and pray that the political backbone is there to push this forward. No privatisation, no money, no money no planes. And even before privatisation, if there's no transatlantic liberalisation, that's going to upset the potato cart too; with FR threatening on the European front (and potentially on the t/a front in time to come!), potential investors will be looking at long haul for growth. The govt must move on this.

Well, that's my morning rant. Y'all just feel free to dive in ...
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:53 pm

I just booked a flight on EI in late July! I hope I get a new A320 EI-DET or EI-DES. I will be flying the usual route for me, LHR-ORK and I wouldn't mind an A321, that's if they still have the green/blue seats.

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Antoine Ossadzow

 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:12 am

Jacko flys Aer Lingus! ??
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...=186880318&p=y8688yxz4&n=186881078
I hope he tried the ham and cheese panini, I'm sure he would have liked it!

[Edited 2006-06-25 17:14:08]
 
legoguy
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:01 am

Does Northern Ireland count as Irish!?!?!

If so...Wahey...if not let me know and I'll delete this.

The special olympics have been on this week here in Northern Ireland and have just ended today, however, I was hoping there may be afew charter aircraft in Belfast International Airport such as the odd tristar or 767. Could anyone confirm this. I might visit the airport tomorrow.

Thanks,

Dave
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
kaitak
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:53 am

Yes, that counts! However, I can't confirm which aircraft will be at BFS, but if the Special Olympiad is on, I'd expect to see quite a few interesting ones.

Let us know what you've seen!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:21 pm

Does anyone know if Aer Lingus is considering online check-in? FR and other airlines have started using it but with some small problems like scanning the printed pass and finding out that the scan has failed and tearing the paper as you board is difficult for the gate agent. They are only small problems but I always wondered if EI would try it, it would be useful.
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:25 pm

I don't know, depends how much such a system would cost, i suppose it makes sense for them, but with their own self-service checkin (and they have an awful lot of machines now) it's probably quicker going to the aiport and checking in that way.
John Hancock
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:42 pm

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 6):
self-service checkin

I use it every time I fly them! I'd say the online check-in would cost quite a bit and there has been some problems with other airlines so it may not be the time for EI but it could still be a possibility.
 
abc9
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 7):
Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 6):
self-service checkin

EI's self-service check-in is the best product of it's type I've tried (admittedly I've only tried a few). If they can develop an on-line check-in facility as good, great, but if not they should continue to market the on-line version, the more people who use it and realise how good a product it is can only be good marketing for them.
 
Toulouse
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 1):
I wouldn't mind an A321, that's if they still have the green/blue seats

Flew an EI A321 from DUB to MAD about a month ago and it was refurbished with the new seats à la 320. So, the classic old green/blue seats are now gone from the short haul fleet.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 9):
Flew an EI A321 from DUB to MAD about a month ago and it was refurbished with the new seats à la 320. So, the classic old green/blue seats are now gone from the short haul fleet

Although I like the new Navy Blue leather seats, the Green and Blue seats have always looked Irish and the F/As always blended in with their green and blue uniform.
Here is a nice image of the new seats.
http://www.airteamimages.com/4078.html
 
Toulouse
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 10):
Although I like the new Navy Blue leather seats, the Green and Blue seats have always looked Irish and the F/As always blended in with their green and blue uniform.

I totally agree. The new seats are nice, perhaps a bit more classy (?), but the old green/blue were Irish... it could only by Aer Lingus. And I always felt the quotations on the seats were a good susbtitute for IFE on the s/h flights... used to spend my time trying to figure out what was written on the seats. It was a nice touch.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 11):
used to spend my time trying to figure out what was written on the seats

I tried to read it but could never understand what it said and when I got a few words together they did not make sense.
I think I need a few more flights on EI until I get used to the new seats.
 
kaitak
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:15 am

Interesting report in the Indo today ...

Basically, the sides are close to agreement, but are keeping it quiet, but I think the most interesting part was the last few lines - the first mention of the E word ...

Of course, the Indo suggests that the main motivation is EI's slots, which - as said already - won't be sold (although frankly, one or two shouldn't be a problem?). However, I think an arrangement with EK could be very good for EI.

Let's hope something positive materialises here.
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:19 am

I was on EI-CPD recently, (A321) and that was refurbished with the new leather seats. I definitely prefer them them to the blue/green seats used previously but if there is one disadvantage I would have to say that I tend to get quite sweaty while sitting and find my body sticking to the leather, which is quite annoying.

Back in february I was doing a case study on EI, which necessitated a Q&A session with the head of marketing and they are definitely looking at introducing online check in, but of course the timing was quite vague. I remember him saying "sometime towards the end of the year".
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 14):
while sitting and find my body sticking to the leather, which is quite annoying.

I sit on my jumper or something like that, I dont stick to the seat but it is still comfortable. Big grin

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 14):
"sometime towards the end of the year".

That's quite interesting, thank you Shamrock330!

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 14):
I definitely prefer them them to the blue/green seats used previously

Do you find them more comfortable or is it just the look?
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 15):
Do you find them more comfortable or is it just the look?

Looks wise , I think the leather seats look alot more classy and modern. THe whole cabin feels alot fresher. From a comfort perspective, i'd have to say that the leather seats are, in my opinion, that bit better especially with the adjustable headrest.

I have some photos from my trip, so i'll do a trip report soon. (whenever i get my laptop back from fujitsu siemens in belfast). I have a pic of the new seat so i'll put that up aswell.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 16):
I have some photos from my trip, so i'll do a trip report soon. (whenever i get my laptop back from fujitsu siemens in belfast). I have a pic of the new seat so i'll put that up aswell.

Great I will be looking forward to it!
I agree the seats look way more classy and the A320 looks it's best!
 
kaitak
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:27 am

The following speech was made by the Minister for Transport, Mr. Martin Cullen, T.D. in the Dail last week. In fairness to the minister, it's very interesting and encouraging and I thought I would share it with you:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The dynamics of international air travel are changing dramatically. Many people from Ireland who fly to Heathrow use it as a connection to another destination. When discussing new bilaterals with which we are preparing with Singapore and Thailand recently, an interesting statistic that emerged was that more than half a million Irish people travel to those two countries annually, and that number is increasing substantially. My view and wish is that direct flights from Dublin to those destinations will be available in the medium term. That would change the dynamic of the use of all the landing slots we have in Heathrow. It would change the dynamic of the marketplace, which has begun to change. The volume of slots we, as a island nation, have in Heathrow is important, but slots are equally important in airports in other countries. There is no doubt that Heathrow will remain a key hub and key connectivity will be required from Heathrow to other destinations. Aer Lingus will certainly want to retain its slots into the Heathrow zone......

I highlighted this issue to broaden the debate and for us to have a better understanding of the dynamic that is occurring in international aviation travel and for us not to get caught up in the holy grail of the English destination being the only one in the world that resolves everything we want to achieve. Many Irish people transit through Heathrow Airport to further destinations. Heathrow is a destination for many Irish people but not for all Irish travellers. That should be realised.

The market of transiting and hub creation is changing dramatically. With the development of Dublin Airport, it is our intention to create a hub, which would be a major contributor to the growth of Aer Lingus but equally to the growth of the aviation business in Ireland. We are developing that dynamic and account can be taken of the demand for connections to here from transatlantic cities, 22 of which have indicated they would like direct connectivity into Ireland. Dublin is very well placed as a redistributor hub on short haul into the European sphere of operations and vice versa. The dynamic of what we are doing by investing in Aer Lingus and in Dublin Airport is all about symmetry and the development of the aviation sector worldwide as we go forward.....

At the moment Aer Lingus would be classed as a small, strong and solid regional airline. I have a much bigger vision for Aer Lingus. I am not saying it can be a British Airways or a Singapore Airlines tomorrow but it can certainly fly on a number of expanded long-haul routes into the United States. Its first long-haul route to the Middle East commenced only in February this year. The potential for further expansion direct to China, direct to Singapore, direct to Thailand and, ultimately, direct to Australia and certainly direct to South Africa changes the dynamic of that airline very substantially and demonstrates the sort of security there will be in the future for Aer Lingus by doing this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Different people will pick out different things; I know it's easy for us to criticise and of course, we do so quite often (not that it's necessarily unwarranted), but where praise is due, let's give it. What jumped out at me was:

- 500,000 people travelling to Singapore and Thailand (many of them, I'm sure, en route to Oz); that's a heck of a number and with many people flying from Asia to here, the market is certainly there;
- Bilaterals being prepared and hope is that services can begin in medium term. (If those are the correct numbers - and I've no reason to disbelieve them, they could surely start sooner);
- Developing Dublin as a hub ... quite a bit to go there, for reasons we've gone into here, previously;
- 22 US cities seeking services to Dublin - bring 'em on!!!
- Clear implication (I take it) that the govt is actively seeking a way around the current EU/US impasse;
- Govt has its own vision for EI; not going to be an obstacle; growth and ambition will be supported;
- Lots of potential seen for growth - China, SA, US, Australia (although I think that will be done via SIN/BKK).

All in all, good, stirring stuff.
 
pilot21
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:13 am

Gents

I've been away for a bit, so excuse the questions in case they've been brought up before:

1) I saw that 1 of EI's A330's suffered an engine failure at BOS last week, and Saturday nights BOS-DUB flight was cancelled, but the Saturday/Sunday DUB-BOS flights looked to be running, is the aircraft still stuck in BOS awaiting repairs?
2) I only saw yesterday the note that EI was leaving oneworld (I have been away!!) what was the general opinion on here about the news?
3) Nice speach by the Min. for Transport above Kai Tak, but this is all pie in the sky if EI doesn't get the money it needs for a new fleet, and DUB needs to get it's act together and build a proper T2! (rather then stick bits onto the existing terminal, which seems to be the case from all the drawings I see on the DAA website). So hopefully the Minister and the Govt. in general will back up their words with action by the end of the summer and we can sit back and see who has won the long-haul race.
4) Lastly, I know a lot of discussion has been made on the new runway, it's extra length, and the problem that it won't come on line until 2012 at the earliest, but given the space available at either end of the current 28 runway, could the DAA not just extend that as an interm solution (or can then not stretch it out due to land issues etc?)
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:36 am

5)Could EI 'Rent' or 'Lease' LHR slots?
John Hancock
 
EI787
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviati

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:41 am

DAA are introducing internet kiosks throughout the airport:

Quote:
New Internet Kiosks In the Arrivals Hall

Passengers can now surf the Internet in the Arrivals Hall at Dublin Airport with the introduction of new Internet Kiosks. The installation of the new Intranet Kiosks is in direct response to customer needs. Other Intranet Kiosks are available in Piers C and B with a number of new sites ear-marked for development in the near future.

An ideal way to surf Airliners.net while at the airport!

QuickPark also announced today that from July 10th, their daily car parking charge will increase to €6 (it was €5). Mind you, that's still cheaper than DAA's car parks!!

[Edited 2006-06-27 18:43:15]
 
kaitak
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:39 am

Hi Pilot 21/Smokeyrosco, let me respond (as best I can to your comments);

1. The aircraft stuck in BOS, EI-JFK, has returned to service; I presume it was grounded at BOS for the duration of its breakdown.
2. Oneworld - departure not unexpected. Overall, a good thing, particularly as EI can sign agreements with other oneworld carriers on specific routes, or indeed airlines outside the grouping.
3. Agreed. The govt is due to introduce legislation to allow the EI privatisation to go forward. Apparently, a deal is also close between the airline and unions, including SIPTU. Better still, an EI executive said today in Berlin that EI is leaning towards the 787 (hardly a surprise, given the pig's ear that Airbus has made of the 350, but good news anyway).
4. The current runway could - and should - be lengthened, especially given the long haul route ambitions he referred to in his speech above; this follows from your point 4 - great vision, but let see it backed. The DAA has no intention of lengthening the runway and the govt, so far, has no intention of making them do so.
5. Smokeyrosco, I guess they could, theoretically; there is recent legislation relating to the sale of slots, so there's no reason why this shouldn't include leasing them to other airlines for a time.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 22):
EI executive said today in Berlin that EI is leaning towards the 787

Interesting! I haven't really heard anything from EI about either aircraft since WW announced that the fleet will be replaced.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 22):
The current runway could - and should - be lengthened

I thought that two main roads at either end of the runway stopped any type of improvements?
 
kaitak
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:42 am

No, there's still plenty of space in between the two. The runway could be lengthened to 10,000' within the boundary.

Of course, what's going to happen is that EI is going to run up against this wall and have to argue its case; every other airline can operate from a long runway, only limited by the range of their aircraft - but not EI. The airline's growth will be restricted by this. Maybe Airbus or Boeing could offer to pay for the extension as part of their deal?
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 23):
I thought that two main roads at either end of the runway stopped any type of improvements?

MY thoughts exactly. If any lengthning of runway10/28 was to take place, i'd be pretty certain that the road at the threshold of runway 10 would have to be scrapped. I can't see that happening anytime soon.

Oh, Irish aviation is exasperating, things ALWAYS seem to move at a snail's pace.  Embarrassment
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:47 am

Thanks for your explanation Kaitak.
 
EI321
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:04 am

Article on EI and the 787:

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/business/14912698.htm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 22):
5. Smokeyrosco, I guess they could, theoretically; there is recent legislation relating to the sale of slots, so there's no reason why this shouldn't include leasing them to other airlines for a time.

They already lease some.
 
ei2ksea
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:17 am

Speaking of being away for a while, I finally have broadband outside of work and so get to post regularly again guilt-free...

On the line of Irish aviation, I have been based in Galway for the past 9 months and must say Aer Arann have really ramped up service here with Liverpool, Cardiff and Leeds not to mention Cork. I have had the pleasant experience of flying Luton-Galway a number of times and loads seems to be quite good given the Ryanair effect down the road in Shannon. I wonder however how will 2 of the more adventurous internal flights ever offered in Ireland fare over the next few months; namely Galway to Cork by Aer Arann and Galway to Belfast by Flybe, both of which are pretty surprising in my opinion; although it is quite an arduous trek to Cork and Belfast by surface, I cant see either lasting too long particularly when a return to Cork with RE costs from €150 (first class train fare is €100 but the indirect routing makes it a 4.5-5hour journey). Meanwhile Flybe are from €100 return (special offer) for what has to be a marginal route at the best of times. Theres my few cents at this moment in time - Cheers Kaitak for keeping the Irish-thread going!
Next Flight: DUB-BOS (EI), BOS-DEN-PDX (SWA), SEA-BOS (AS)
 
pilot21
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:56 am

Kai Tak

Many thanks for your replies, and insight, very good as always. Interesting comments on the B787 for EI, although not too surprising given the sh*t show that Airbus has managed to stage over the past few months. As an overall Airbus fan, I have at times wondered if it was a bunch of kids running the show with the amount of screw ups they have encountered over the A350 and A380.

If EI was to go down the 787 road, first deliveries could not start until 2011 at least from what I remember, so what will they do as an interim solution I wonder? With the A350 now not such a threat, my guess is that Boeing won't feel too compelled to put any B777's on the table to help EI get by until the 787's arrive. (and if they get funding by Sept, can EI afford to have a long haul feet of only 9 aircraft for the next 5 yrs).

Given the current breakdown rate of the older A330-300's, I suppose EI could increase the A330 order to 5, replace EI-DUB/CRK/JFK with new 300's and then phase them out in 5yrs when the new (possible 787's??) arrive?
Thghts?
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
MarBergi
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:48 am

Two things - If EI do go for the 787 would getting more A330's in the interim be a good idea given that Airbus have started work on the A330F, then when the 787's start to get delivered sell them on - possibly for freighter conversion?

Secondly - How much clear space at the end of each runway is required as from maps there appears to be close to 1/2 mile at each end of the runway - could this be used to increase the length of the runway without moving the boundaries?
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:07 am

I don't think EI are going to replace there existing 330's with anything other then an all new fleet.

28/10 in DUB is 2,637m long, apperently (according to a quick google) a 332 at MTOW requires 2,650? that can't be right, I assume its in around 3000m.

Dublin Aiports new Runway (2012) will be 3110m.
John Hancock
 
kaitak
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:00 pm

I had heard in the past that Boeing had offered two 777s as part of an interim deal. All we're doing here is speculating of course and much as I'd LOVE to see 777s flying for EI, I would expect EI to increase its A330 fleet until the 787s come along which, as said above, won't be until 2011 (-9s) and 2012/3 (-10s). During that time, however, there's going to be a lot of growth and I would expect that the airline's fleet would move into double figures and up to around 12 within the next three years.

Open Skies is going to open up a lot of new destinations and I'd expect EI to be as ambitious and aggressive in opening up new US routes as it has been in opening up new short haul routes. Quite apart from which of the competing aircraft is better, Boeing also has to prove to EI that it's going to be a partner in its future growth; I have no doubt that Boeing knows that and part of what it's trying to do is to show EI how it (Boeing) can support its growth ambitions through new aircraft. Now, that may well include the 777 and EI could say no to that part, or it could take the view that 777s would be help; with two new A330s on the way, however, I think they'll just stick with them for the moment.

Exciting times ahead and given the minister's comments, to which I referred above, I would expect that he will push the whole Open Skies issue pretty hard.
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:09 am

Just a little note, EI-DET arrived today from TLS just after 14:00. It's really really shiny, nice to see another new aircraft for EI. I was lucky enough to be on the stand next to the stand it came in on.... by chance of course.
John Hancock
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 33):
It's really really shiny

I remember seeing EI-DES in late 2005, it looked great.
 
greenjet
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 31):
28/10 in DUB is 2,637m long, apperently (according to a quick google) a 332 at MTOW requires 2,650? that can't be right, I assume its in around 3000m.

The figure obviously depends a lot on airfield altitude and weather conditions. So the length of runway required in JNB in January will be a lot different to DUB in January. However, what the exact figure for a 332 at MTOW in DUB in ISA conditions is I don't know.
 
kaitak
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RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:44 pm

The A330-200 shouldn't have problems getting from DUB to most potential destinations, although SIN/KUL would be a bit of a stretch and the return flight, because of headwinds, significantly worse. Ideally, if they wanted to fly n/s to SIN, they should use a 777, but then they run into runway limitations at Dublin. Again, I come back to the issue of DUB's runway needing to be extended, but the DAA has absolutely plans to do this and the govt shows no intention of telling them to do so.

With regard to the Irish/US bilateral issue, I sent a letter to the EU Commission seeking clarification of Ireland's rights in this regard, in particular whether it was correct that if the proposed changes didn't pose a competitive disadvantage to any other country (as I believe is the case), the proposed deal should be allowed to go ahead. The govt must have a deal in place by the time privatisation takes place; with increased competition from FR on short haul, investors will be looking at long haul and the lack of increased access (particularly with US airlines like NW etc finding it easy to add capacity to Ireland) makes it very difficult for EI to expand; I just cannot see why it matters at all to the EU whether the ratio of DUB:SNN flights is 1:1 or 3:1. Hopefully, they won't dig their heels in, but if they do, I think it raises serious questions about whether an organ of the EU can take action which amounts to imposing a competitive disadvantage.

To my mind, this should be "ultra vires" - i.e. outside its power; thus the govt should be able to deem the EU's approval as given and proceed to conclude a new deal. We've seen a few examples in the past (for example, with Dublin Airport being part of the state's critical infrastructure, and yet the minister happy to wash its hands of it and leave it to the DAA) where the minister has made very positive statements and hasn't seen them through; this can't be allowed to happen with increased US access. I've been lobbying on the SNN stopover for about sixteen years now and it's about bloody time this nonsense was put to rest for good.
 
dstc47
Posts: 1269
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 3:53 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:04 pm

Kaitak

You might like to read the EU Commission views on aviation bilaterals, where there is not complete agreement with the member states as to the competence issues.

Have a look at the European Court of Justice finding in Case C-476/98 against Germany for some interesting, if long background which you may see recycled.
 
Provance
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:25 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:36 pm

has anyone seen the Update EI website. Fuel surcharges have been taken out out of the base price. Also you can now see how many and which seats are available of all their flight. Its kind of nifty to be honest !!!
EI, FR, BD, RE, UA, XL, US,
 
Shamrock330
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:26 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:23 pm

Quoting Provance (Reply 38):
you can now see how many and which seats are available of all their flight

Thanks for that update! I had a look myself and indeed it is a great enhancement, reminds me more of a full service airline. Despite this has anyone managed to check seat availability on short haul, cause all i can see is active seat maps on long haul routes. But still, its a nice touch.
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviati

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:26 pm

Quoting Shamrock330 (Reply 39):
Despite this has anyone managed to check seat availability on short haul

Yes, seat maps for short haul are also included (I tried DUB-BHX in August for an example).

Great new feature EI!!!

It also seems that you can select your seat after you purchase your flights which is an added bonus!

[Edited 2006-06-29 14:28:08]
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:41 pm

There also seems to be a problem with EI check-in this morning:

From the DAA:

Quote:

Check-in systems problems for Aer Lingus

DAA wishes to advise customers that there have been problems with the Aer Lingus check-in system since mid-morning. Aer Lingus is now putting in an alternative system in place. Aer Lingus will continue to operate, but there will be delays.

Please contact Aer Lingus for information.

Would it be related to the changes to the website??
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:56 pm

The Check-in system is now back up and running again:

Quote:
Aer Lingus Check-in System Up and Running
Please note that the Aer Lingus check-in computer system is now fully operational at Dublin Airport following difficulties from mid-morning today
 
Provance
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:25 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:04 am

From unison.ie

Quote:

Aer Lingus faces new competitor on trans-atlantic route

THE fourth-largest airline in the Unites States is considering using Ireland to launch a major offensive on trans-atlantic routes.

Northwest Airlines, which enjoys Chapter 11 protection from bankruptcy, is looking at a launching a number of routes from the US to both Dublin and Shannon.

While the extra competition may be good news for consumers, it will not be welcomed by Aer Lingus, which derives considerable revenue from its trans-Atlantic routes.

The airline has also pinned much of its expansion plans on the trans-atlantic routes and is waiting on the completion of the Open Skies agreement to launch new routes.

The increased competition on Aer Lingus's core trans-atlantic operation comes at a time when the airline is facing increased competition from Ryanair on the majority of its short-haul routes.

Aer Lingus is currently waiting for the Government to give the green light to its flotation, which is expected to occur in the autumn.

According to one aviation analyst, the fact that a bankrupt American airline can take on a profitable Irish one raises serious questions about the nature of competition between American and European carriers.

EU rules prevent national government propping up ailing state companies.

As well as being the fourth largest carrier in the US, Northwest lays claim to being the fifth largest carrier in the world.

It is part of Skyteam, a global alliance which includes AeroMexico, Air France, Alitalia, Continental, CSA Czech, Delta Air, KLM Royal Dutch and Korean Air.

Aer Lingus is part of the Oneworld alliance, but recently signalled its intention to exit the international grouping.

Northwest, which has hubs at Amsterdam, Detroit, Memphis, Minneapolis/St Paul and Tokyo, is racking up huge losses. Last month it reported a $1.1bn loss for Q1, 2006, up from $529m in the same period last year.

The Minneapolis-based airline is looking to Europe to offset domestic losses. It cut its overall capacity by 11pc in Q1.

Northwest is not the only troubled American airline facing up to Aer Lingus. Others include US Airways, which only emerged from bankruptcy last September.

Earlier this month, Delta, which flies between New York and Dublin and Shannon, asked the US courts to extend its bankruptcy protection by four months.
EI, FR, BD, RE, UA, XL, US,
 
kaitak
Posts: 9033
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:58 am

Gosh, that'll really scare Aer Lingus! Northwest - that Singapore Airlines of the US, with its smiling, caring cabin crew and luxurious transatlantic service; oh, the pain! (Sarcastic, moi?!)

Still, good to see another airline flying to Ireland. I hope they do well; they need it!

It is somewhat annoying, however, that US carriers can throw new capacity at Ireland, but Aer Lingus cannot add any new US flights until this stopover nonsense is sorted out. Come on, MC, let's move!
 
Provance
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 2:25 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 44):
Gosh, that'll really scare Aer Lingus! Northwest - that Singapore Airlines of the US, with its smiling, caring cabin crew and luxurious transatlantic service; oh, the pain! (Sarcastic, moi?!)

Funniest quote of the Week !!!
EI, FR, BD, RE, UA, XL, US,
 
pilot21
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 44):
Gosh, that'll really scare Aer Lingus! Northwest - that Singapore Airlines of the US, with its smiling, caring cabin crew and luxurious transatlantic service; oh, the pain! (Sarcastic, moi?!)

Very good  Big grin

I am however annoyed that EI can't open any new routes they want to the US until this Open Skies thing gets sorted. (As per Kai Tak's comments above)

I thgt in the proposed Open Skies deal that was on the table for Ireland, EI would get 3 new routes to the US, and US carriers would have to wait 2 yrs (or some time line) to serve Dublin, is that off the table? (or are the US carriers getting in now before anything is changed?)

The consensus seems to be DUB/SHN - Detroit, not sure I'd be that interested in it as a routing, and for connections, ORD/JFK/PHL/EWR might be a bit better. (And we have LAX covered with EI anyway, so West Coast isn't the big seller.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 4721
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:38 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:52 am

The feature on aerlingus.com is great! I can see Dubai is doing quite well with lots of seats already booked up for the late Summer.
I'm thinking of going on holiday next summer with a few friends, we have been talking about going to Ireland because its where I was born and then to Boston because one of my class mates has relations there, either way we have agreed to fly Aer Lingus. Big grin
 
kaitak
Posts: 9033
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:22 am

Pilot21, just to comment on the current Irish/US bilateral situation (as I understand it). I have written to the Commission to seek clarification and once I get a response, I will post it, but for now, this is what I believe the situation to be:

Basically, the mini-deal worked out between Ireland and the US was supposed to be subject to the wider EU/US deal which, as you know, has been bogged down due to US concerns about airline ownership and influence of foreign mgmt on US carriers (it's really to do with the coming mid-term elections.)

With that out the window for this Winter (and possibly, in a worst case scenario, next Summer) and with EI's privatisation due in September, the govt has to get a new deal on the table; due to intense competition from FR on short haul routes, there will be a particular focus on long haul routes and to privatise EI without a firm knowledge of what will be allowed would really mess up the privatisation process and reduce the govt's take. It would also make it very much harder for EI to plan when it might need new aircraft and when it would need new acft.

My understanding is that, under the current regulations, a country (an EU member state, of course!) can change its bilateral with the US without EU approval, PROVIDED THAT the amended bilateral doesn't put any other country at a competitive disadvantage; since the capitals of virtually all other EU states have unrestricted access to the US (okay, you have the LHR/Bermuda 2 issue, but there's still very good access from LGW), one can hardly call Ireland's position a threat to them, particularly since - for the first 18 months, Dublin's capacity would still be tied to Shannon's, although at a lower frequency. However, will the EU see it like this? This is the point upon which I'm seeking clarification. My fear is that with the election coming up next year, the govt (Bertie, specifically) might be too willing to take no for an answer.

I think it's important that there is clarification on the whole issue of access; a key agency of the EU must be subject to standards of transparency and clarity and if it turns out that the EU denies Ireland (and by inference, EI) the access it seeks, then that effectively amounts to the imposition of a competitive disadvantage and I would take the view that this should be outside the power ("ultra vires") of any EU agency.

I've rambled on for longer than I had planned, but basically, it's up to the govt to negotiate a new deal with the US. My hope is that despite the current problems in EU/US access negotiations, the agreement already reached between Ireland and the US will be able to take effect as planned.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Seventh Heaven - Another Slice Of Irish Aviation!

Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:28 am

Btw. Virgin 744 has just took off from DUB  Wink

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