dsa
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DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:07 am

Hi

Robin Hood Airport Information is currently launching a campaign for a new service to AMS with KLM. We are now asking people to send a letter of support for our campaign to KLM 'Travel Inquiries.' In Robin Hood Airport forums the service has been discussed for a long time and we feel that with the right times the service could be a huge success.

Please fill in the form at the address below:

http://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/trav...act_us/customer_support/travel.htm

And send your message of support or copy and paste this statement and help Robin Hood Airport and KLM

'I would just like to express my support for the Robin Hood Airport KLM Connexion Campaign' I too see the potential for the route from Doncaster and feel that KLM's investment in the region will pay off for both KLM and the region of South Yorkshire'

Just before the DSA 'Bashing' starts I would just like to stress that the airport is now being taken seriously and that we understand that the airport is mainly aimed at the leisure market.

Robin Hood Airport Information - http://robinhoodairport.mysite.orange.co.uk

DSA>>>
Go Skybus!!!!
 
sk601
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:43 am

I don't think this will happen in the near future. LBA and MAN are about 1 hour away from DSA and BHX about 1,5-2hrs. I don't think DSA will generate a lot more traffic from that region, it will probably take away passengers from LBA/MAN/BHX. Also, KL doesn't have the planes to operate the flight(s) at this moment. Both KLM Cityhopper as mainline KL have problems to keep up with the current schedule.

If a DSA-AMS service will start they need to operate at least 3 daily flights in order to get the interest from the travelling public (for business travellers/connecting pax).

If I'm not mistaken KL did operate flights to Sheffield a few years ago with the F50.
 
ANother
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:44 am

Robin Hood, isn't that Nottingham?
 
greenjet
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Dsa (Thread starter):
'I would just like to express my support for the Robin Hood Airport KLM Connexion Campaign' I too see the potential for the route from Doncaster and feel that KLM's investment in the region will pay off for both KLM and the region of South Yorkshire'

Better sort out the punctuation or else KLM will never take it seriously. Good luck though.
 
dsa
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:38 am

Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. The airport needs these numbers of flights and many airlines are expressing an interest

DSA>>>
Go Skybus!!!!
 
Humberside
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 1):
I don't think this will happen in the near future.

I dont either. And for reason, they are adding a 4th flight on weekdays from an airport 45 minutes from DSA - Humberside - from the winter timetable using a Fokker 50

KLM could probably make both HUY-AMS and DSA-AMS work. But this would need HUY-AMS to be 3 Daily Fokker 50's. And with it presently being 3 Daily Fokker 70's and an extra flight from winter, I dont see HUY-AMS capacity being reduced in the short term

Quoting SK601 (Reply 1):
Both KLM Cityhopper as mainline KL have problems to keep up with the current schedule.

KLM Cityhopper seem to be having bad reliability and punctuality on HUY-AMS in recent weeks
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flyingfool
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:47 am

I've visited friends in Doncaster last december and almost everybody overthere is for sure that DSA will take over LHR's position as the number 1 UK airport within about 10 years...

Even, 1 person told me that DSA currently is the only airport in the UK that can handle the A380 due the "extremely long runway" (which is 'only' 9485ft / 2891 mtrs)

When I was trying to get all those people wake up out of there dreams they won't believe that there is more needed then a 'Thomson' to get bigger then LHR...

But 1 thing for sure, the airport is very nice designed  Wink
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting Flyingfool (Reply 6):
I've visited friends in Doncaster last december and almost everybody overthere is for sure that DSA will take over LHR's position as the number 1 UK airport within about 10 years...

 rotfl  A single runway airport in basically the middle of nowhere geared toward the LCC/Charter market is not going to take over anyone's position in ten years, let alone the busiest international airport in the world...

As Humberside mentioned, the close proximity of both LBA and HUY which currently have KLM jet service will keep them out of DSA for the future. The only thing I could see is free rent/landing fees, etc in an attempt to entice them into the market where they could possibly abandon Humberside, but to me that is an extremely long shot at best.

DSA would be best served by continuing to solicit service from Ryan Air and Easy Jet for flights to the continent..
 
ANother
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:48 pm

Quoting Dsa (Reply 4):
Robin Hood Airport Doncaster Sheffield. The airport needs these numbers of flights and many airlines are expressing an interest

Well, you fooled me - I thought you were talking about the place that Robin and his merry men beat up on the Sheriff of ...
 
Humberside
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:51 pm

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
The only thing I could see is free rent/landing fees, etc in an attempt to entice them into the market where they could possibly abandon Humberside, but to me that is an extremely long shot at best.

DSA are believed to have tried that in the past few months but it would appear that they failed
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flyingfool
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:57 pm

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
A single runway airport in basically the middle of nowhere geared toward the LCC/Charter market is not going to take over anyone's position in ten years, let alone the busiest international airport in the world...

Exactly the way I was thinking about the whole story  cheerful 
 
HUYfan
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:44 pm

It seems a little desperate that the airport themselves think that posting on A.net is going to help them secure a KLM AMS service. What's more is that as much as some would like to see such a venture come to fruition, A.netters are not exactly a big market in terms of actually buying tickets on such flights.

Regards

Mike
 
7LBAC111
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 11):
It seems a little desperate that the airport themselves think that posting on A.net is going to help them secure a KLM AMS service. What's more is that as much as some would like to see such a venture come to fruition, A.netters are not exactly a big market in terms of actually buying tickets on such flights.

It's not the airlline, the airport or anything/anyone of any real importance. It's a fan site. One which is regularly plugged in here  sarcastic 

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
planesarecool
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:01 am

You already have 6x weekly flights to AMS with Thomsonfly, how many more do you want?
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:21 am

It's not going to happen, simple. KLC operated to both EMA and SZD a number of years ago, both of which were quickly panned after only a very short term of operation. The physical logistics of MAN, BHX, LBA, HUY mean that the English Midlands and North are pretty much already covered. Let Thomsonfly have their 6x weekly flights to AMS from DSA because it's a different sort of passenger who would fly KL if they were to begin operations from there anyway; I say again, not that it's going to happen!

 wave 
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 14):
Let Thomsonfly have their 6x weekly flights to AMS from DSA because it's a different sort of passenger who would fly KL if they were to begin operations from there anyway;

You were braver than I was saying that.

Happy birthday BDKLEZ on your 1st bday. (Me too!).
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
Cosmic
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting Dsa (Thread starter):
the airport is now being taken seriously

I was under the impression the Airport has been taken seriously since it opened last year! Who's started taking the Airport seriously more than ever then?

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 13):
You already have 6x weekly flights to AMS with Thomsonfly, how many more do you want?

Is that the case? Well I can't really see KLM competing with that.

Campaign for something like First Choice, MyTravel etc... starting more charter routes there, you say its a leisure orientated airport...
 
Humberside
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:26 pm

While TOM's service is a consideration, I dont think it would be that much of an influence on any KLM decision to serve DSA. TOM are after the leisure market and KLM would be after the business and connections market

DSA could do with some flights useful for business passengers but all the growth is with leisure orientated flights. Even the new Flybe Belfast service is virtually useless for business passengers (morning flight too late, afternoon flight too early)
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LJ
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
As Humberside mentioned, the close proximity of both LBA and HUY which currently have KLM jet service will keep them out of DSA for the future. The only thing I could see is free rent/landing fees, etc in an attempt to entice them into the market where they could possibly abandon Humberside, but to me that is an extremely long shot at best.

Given the O&D market between AMS and HUY (Corus and a few oil companies if I'm not mistaken) one can forget they ever drop HUY in favour of DSA. Also at LBA some O&D due to another multinational (have forgotten the name).
 
mainMAN
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 14):
The physical logistics of MAN, BHX, LBA, HUY mean that the English Midlands and North are pretty much already covered. Let Thomsonfly have their 6x weekly flights to AMS from DSA because it's a different sort of passenger who would fly KL if they were to begin operations from there anyway; I say again, not that it's going to happen!

It'd be entirely reasonable for South Yorkshire to have a KLM link to AMS and onwards, say 2 or 3 times a day on an F70. HUY's a different local market, and KLM flew from Sheffield for a while. The only sticking point I can see is that O&D leisure passengers are already catered for by TOM, and in other markets where KL and LCCs operate , BHX, MAN and LBA for example, cheaper KL tickets are restrictive, and generally more expensive than the competition IMO

Still, serving a metro population of a million, with easier motorway access than both LBA and HUY and no KL presence at EMA, a KL DSA-AMS service isn't too hard to imagine.

[Edited 2006-06-28 00:28:01]
 
dsa
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:53 pm

Thanks MainMAN

These are the points we intend to get towards KL, I believe that Sheffield service was quite successful. With Doncaster putting in a bid for cityship status and the highly populated city of Sheffield nearby it is perfectly reasonable.

Thanks Once Again

REMEMBER PLEASE EMAIL KLM!!!

dsa>>>
Go Skybus!!!!
 
mainMAN
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:10 pm

Quoting Dsa (Reply 20):
These are the points we intend to get towards KL, I believe that Sheffield service was quite successful. With Doncaster putting in a bid for cityship status and the highly populated city of Sheffield nearby it is perfectly reasonable.

Thanks Once Again

REMEMBER PLEASE EMAIL KLM!!!

It's not in my best interests to do that......as a Mancunian with an interest in MAN and 'our' other airports at HUY and EMA!

But I will, because I do think Sheffield should be accessible through an alliance.

Moreover....

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
A single runway airport in basically the middle of nowhere geared toward the LCC/Charter market is not going to take over anyone's position in ten years

Not necessarily true, it potentially could take over LBA and EMA's position - it has the best geographical location of any airport on the eastern side of central/northern England. 1 million passengers and long-haul charters to Egypt, Dom Republic, Florida and Mexico isn't bad going for an airport just over one year old.........watch this space.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:49 pm

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 21):
Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 7):
A single runway airport in basically the middle of nowhere geared toward the LCC/Charter market is not going to take over anyone's position in ten years

Not necessarily true, it potentially could take over LBA and EMA's position - it has the best geographical location of any airport on the eastern side of central/northern England. 1 million passengers and long-haul charters to Egypt, Dom Republic, Florida and Mexico isn't bad going for an airport just over one year old.........watch this space

If LBA continues to price itself out of the IT/Charter market, you may very well be right. There is no question that DSA is in a prime position to be the premier charter/LCC facility for the North Central UK region, especially if they manage to keep their costs low and continue providing incentives to carriers in exchange for additional flights. I have never been thru, but I understand it is a wonderful facility.

However, I still feel that DSA's niche will be in this market, not in scheduled flights to the continent. I can't see KLM or any other airline for that matter providing flights which would draw passengers away from HUY and LBA...
 
dsa
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:26 am

Thanks MainMAN! I do appreciate that it would be not in your interests and that the two airports are in competition. But thank you, once AGAIN everybody. . .

PLEASE HELP AND EMAIL KLM!!!

DSA>>>
Go Skybus!!!!
 
planesarecool
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:24 am

Why do you want this service? For an airport with very few flights to very few destinations, I know I'd rather get a new destination, than one already served by TOM. If KL thought a route to DSA would work, I'm sure they would have thought about it and started/planned it by now. I don't think requests from a few people will work, and after they've read through about 5 or 6 with exactly the same content, they'd probably consider it as spam and ignore them altogether.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but i don't see why it's wanted so badly.
 
Humberside
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:50 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 24):
but i don't see why it's wanted so badly.

I can. DSA's present services are virtually useless for business passengers. KLM to AMS would be very useful for business passengers and could also offer onward connections
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BBJII
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:06 am

Ok so KLM are Dutch...and based in AMS, but is there a reason for targeting KLM?

Transavia?
Easyjet?
Scotairways (they serve SOU - AMS)

Whilst non of these carriers have Interline agreements with KLM, I believe arrangements could/would be made if the route proved worthwhile.

Scotairways SOU-AMS was at one-point codeshared by KLM, but CB cancelled the arrangement as they could fill the aircraft themselves without connecting traffic.

Transavia are a partner of the KLM Group.

Why not look at other options too
AF to CDG ORY
LH to FRA MUC
SN to BRU


 

[Edited 2006-06-29 00:15:50]

[Edited 2006-06-29 00:18:36]
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
Humberside
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:13 am

Quoting BBJII (Reply 26):
Ok so KLM are Dutch...and based in AMS, but is there a reason for targeting KLM?

Connections

(Yes, Transavia and Scot Airways would probably interline with KLM, but that wouldn't be automatically obvious to travellers)
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planesarecool
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 25):
I can. DSA's present services are virtually useless for business passengers. KLM to AMS would be very useful for business passengers and could also offer onward connections

Frankfurt (LH)? Paris CDG (AF)? Madrid (IB)?

None of those have services to DSA, and could all offer onward connections similar to KLM from AMS. They would have all the traffic on the routes, however with a KL flight to AMS, the leisure travellers going just between DSA and AMS are likely to take the cheaper TOM flight.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 25):
DSA's present services are virtually useless for business passengers

And a service to Amsterdam is useless for business passengers needing to go to Madrid, Brussels etc. Not all business travellers need to go to Amsterdam, and those who do have the option of the TOM flight from DSA, or the KLM flights from nearby HUY and LBA. Those who may need to go to Madrid have no flights nearby and would have to go to Manchester.

I know for sure that if I lived near DSA, I'd be campaigning for LH or IB before i started campaigning for KL.
 
mainMAN
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 24):
Why do you want this service? For an airport with very few flights to very few destinations, I know I'd rather get a new destination, than one already served by TOM.



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 28):
I know for sure that if I lived near DSA, I'd be campaigning for LH or IB before i started campaigning for KL.

Good points, but a KLM link to AMS has always been marketed as THE alternative to travelling through LHR, from the regions. It works because a lot of KLM's long haul services are full by people connecting to Norwich and Leeds, not to mention BHX and MAN.

From Humberside or Teeside or wherever, it's always been possible to use KLM for a business day trip to anywhere in the EU, and the same was true of Sabena (at its height).
 
Cosmic
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:47 am

I heard yesterday from a friend that KLM are going to try this route out and see how it goes...

Take it or leave it. Nothing has been announced officially yet, just talk.

[Edited 2006-06-29 01:47:55]
 
Humberside
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:09 pm

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 28):
Frankfurt (LH)? Paris CDG (AF)? Madrid (IB)?

None of those have services to DSA, and could all offer onward connections similar to KLM from AMS. They would have all the traffic on the routes, however with a KL flight to AMS, the leisure travellers going just between DSA and AMS are likely to take the cheaper TOM flight.

But LH and IB dont have the same commitment to the English regions as KLM. As MainMAN says, "KLM to AMS has always been marketed as THE alternative to travelling through LHR, from the regions"

Quoting Cosmic (Reply 30):
I heard yesterday from a friend that KLM are going to try this route out and see how it goes...

Take it or leave it. Nothing has been announced officially yet, just talk.

Im going to say its unlikely because they are increasing HUY-AMS this winter, though the previous rumours do suggest DSA have been making KLM a very good offer to serve DSA
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BDKLEZ
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 31):
But LH and IB dont have the same commitment to the English regions as KLM. As MainMAN says, "KLM to AMS has always been marketed as THE alternative to travelling through LHR, from the regions"

Yes, but that's more through historical reasons that remain in place to this day through the original Air UK codeshare, then shareholding, then purchase then merger into the KL group as KLM uk and then integration into KLM cityhopper as the situation remains today. If LH or IB etc had purchased Air uk then it would be them who would be providing the alternative transfer point to LHR in eiher Spain or Germany.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
Humberside
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:38 pm

I cant see LH or IB expanding that much in the UK to be honest now though. Theres been very little development of new short haul routes by either airlines to the main hubs in recent years. They might expand with Catair or Germanwings but probably not 'as themselves'
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mhodgson
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:46 pm

IB don't even serve any regions any more!

LH do at least send a few CRJs to the regions!
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:09 am

I used to have a neighbour who worked for KLM at MAN, who went on to work for Emirates.

I recall him saying at the time of the Sheffield route that KLM would not entertain Peel Holdings for a very long time to come. Something to do with the investment they had put into the route, only to have Peel effectively tell them they had been wasting their time and that there was no commercial future for them at Sheffield.

Things might have changed, but I doubt very much that KLM would even give Doncaster a second glance, given the past circumstances.

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
mainMAN
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 34):
LH do at least send a few CRJs to the regions!

LH do a bigger job than that! They send CRJs from HAM and DUS, 737s from MUC and 320s, 321s, and sometimes 300s from FRA into MAN and BHX.
 
mhodgson
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 36):
LH do a bigger job than that! They send CRJs from HAM and DUS, 737s from MUC and 320s, 321s, and sometimes 300s from FRA into MAN and BHX.

Aye, I was going to type all that but then got told to get back to work  Silly

GLA, NCL, EDI and I think BRS recieve some LH regional flights as well, though.
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
mainMAN
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 37):
Aye, I was going to type all that but then got told to get back to work

Yeah I thought so, and there was me being too pedantic.....too much non-work time on my hands!

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 35):
Things might have changed, but I doubt very much that KLM would even give Doncaster a second glance, given the past circumstances

I reckon they'd just make a commercial decision, like any other. The development of Doncaster was still a long way off, when KLM linked Sheffield to Omserdom.
 
Humberside
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 37):
GLA, NCL, EDI and I think BRS recieve some LH regional flights as well, though.

Nothing from GLA or BRS. There is NCL-DUS (on Eurowings) and EDI-FRA, which I think sees some mainline aircraft
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LJ
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 29):
Good points, but a KLM link to AMS has always been marketed as THE alternative to travelling through LHR, from the regions. It works because a lot of KLM's long haul services are full by people connecting to Norwich and Leeds, not to mention BHX and MAN.

You forget that the reason why KLM has such an extensive route structure is because (historically) there is much O&D traffic between The Netherlands and the UK. Many routes have been set up to serve the (Anglo -) Dutch multinationals and the feed on its long haul was not the main reason. Nowadays, the feed KLM has from these UK destinations is the important reason to have x number of flights to a particular UK destination, but in the end you make more money on O&D business traffic than on feed.

The only reason for KLM to start flying to DSA would be a contract with (a) multinational(s) which prefers to use DSA instead of other airports.
 
dsa
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RE: DSA To AMS With KLM: Please Help Us!

Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:19 am

The SZD Route from Sheffield was actually a real success for KLM the load factors were consistently high. The service was cancelled because KLM did not have any spare F50's and no other a/c could come into the airport.

DSA>>>
Go Skybus!!!!