Ikarus2006
Topic Author
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:10 pm

Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:44 am

I was wondering if anyone of you is aware of any economy class seat currently in use (whether on a regular or a low-cost airline) which has been stripped down to the minimum.

Any airline you are aware of that is currently excluding tables and literature pockets from their seats in order to save weight (or has tested this in the past) ?

Any other weight saving techniques you are aware of?
 
roseflyer
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:55 am

Ryanair is probably the airline with the least of the comforts in economy. You can definitely save weight and maintenance costs by having no seat pockets, no tray tables, and seats that don't recline.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
nwa757boy
Posts: 423
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
Ryanair is probably the airline with the least of the comforts in economy. You can definitely save weight and maintenance costs by having no seat pockets, no tray tables, and seats that don't recline.

Don't forget no window shades!

I've never flown Airtran, but from what I've heard, you can get impression on the metal support of the econ chairs on your butt from sitting in them for a while...
 
egnr
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:31 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting Ikarus2006 (Thread starter):
Any airline you are aware of that is currently excluding tables and literature pockets from their seats in order to save weight (or has tested this in the past) ?

As RoseFlyer says, Ryanair is the airline to look at here. On their newer 737-800s, there are no seat back tables (although the emergency exit seats do have tables that pop out of the arm rests). There are no seat back pockets either (so the safety card is stuck to the back of the seat in front of you) and no recline mechanisms on the seats.

Compare the new style cabins to the old style cabins in the photos below:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Piotr Biskupski
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Achim Stemmer

7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
miami1
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 3):
On their newer 737-800s, there are no seat back tables

It certainly looks as if there is tray tables in the first pic above. Unless of course there is a newer seat version without them? You can clearly see the tray table latch and supports on the side.
 
lincoln
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 4):
It certainly looks as if there is tray tables in the first pic above. Unless of course there is a newer seat version without them? You can clearly see the tray table latch and supports on the side.

I was just going to say exactly the same thing... In the center of the seat, below the diagram, there appears to be a latch as well as a "landing area" on either side for the latch to hit when rotated 90 degrees...as well as the supports being very clearly visible.
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
JBLUA320
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:37 am

About the FL comment-- you are right. AirTran economy seats SUCK if you dont put a pillow between the seat and your bacl but then again, an upgrade to business is cheap and well worth it. Despite the seats, FL is a great airline.

JBLU
 
aeroplan73
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:59 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 3):
Compare the new style cabins to the old style cabins in the photos below:

It would be strange to stare at the seat mounted emergency procedure cards for hours on end.
I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
 
LeonB1985
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:21 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 7):

It would be strange to stare at the seat mounted emergency procedure cards for hours on end.

But do many people actually spend a flight just staring at the seat in front of them?
From the construction site that is better-known as London Heathrow Airport
 
B4REAL
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 4):
It certainly looks as if there is tray tables in the first pic above. Unless of course there is a newer seat version without them? You can clearly see the tray table latch and supports on the side.

I believe there is a latch, but no table. Similar to exit rows on most aircraft in the USA.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting B4real (Reply 9):
I believe there is a latch, but no table

Meaning that the airline's MX can modify the seat to be that way, instead of ordering a custom seat (less cost this way).
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
egnr
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:31 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 5):
Quoting Miami1 (Reply 4):
It certainly looks as if there is tray tables in the first pic above. Unless of course there is a newer seat version without them? You can clearly see the tray table latch and supports on the side.

I was just going to say exactly the same thing... In the center of the seat, below the diagram, there appears to be a latch as well as a "landing area" on either side for the latch to hit when rotated 90 degrees...as well as the supports being very clearly visible.



Quoting B4real (Reply 9):
Quoting Miami1 (Reply 4):
It certainly looks as if there is tray tables in the first pic above. Unless of course there is a newer seat version without them? You can clearly see the tray table latch and supports on the side.

I believe there is a latch, but no table. Similar to exit rows on most aircraft in the USA.

B4Real is correct - there is a latch, but no table on Ryanair. I wonder if Ryanair have worked out the collective weight of those 189 latches...
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
User avatar
Vasu
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:51 am

...what on earth is everyone going on about... of course Ryanair still has tray tables!

 
egnr
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:31 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Vasu (Reply 12):
...what on earth is everyone going on about... of course Ryanair still has tray tables!

 blush   blush   blush   blush 
Oops... I know what I was thinking of... When I've flown with FR, I was in the emergency exit rows - no table in front of me, but a pop out one in the arm rest.

There is still a catch/latch on the seat back though in the emergency exit rows (I think). However, give my contributions to this post so far, I may be miles out on that too.
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 13):
There is still a catch/latch on the seat back though in the emergency exit rows (I think). However, give my contributions to this post so far, I may be miles out on that too.

I can't speak for FR's fleat, but I have seen that of which you speak in the exit rows of some aircraft in the US... Now, don't ask me to tell you where, though... Part of me really wants to tell you that 11A/F on CO's 733s and 73Gs (which is the seat in front of 14A/F...no complaining about leg room) has the latch, but no table while the other part of me wants to tell you that these aircraft have neither the latch nor the traytable. (Tray table is in the inboard armrest*)

Lincoln

* Why not the outboard is a mystery to me... Putting it in the inboard, more often than not for me means having to wake up the pax next to me to get the table out for a bev service or put it away when finished.
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Ikarus2006
Topic Author
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:10 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:50 pm

VASU,

Thanks for your reply. Is it correct then that the literature pocket is missing in the Ryanair seat?

And, since we found out FR do have tables, is there still any known airlines actually scrapping them to save weight?
 
GSM763
Posts: 573
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:35 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:31 pm

Quoting Ikarus2006 (Reply 15):

Thanks for your reply. Is it correct then that the literature pocket is missing in the Ryanair seat?

Yes it is and bloody annoying that is as well.
 
imatams
Posts: 312
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:42 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:36 pm

No airline would remove a tray table... They'd give you a tray table even if it was standing room only!!!
No tray table means no place to but your coffee and sandwich wich would mean no revenue for the airline from overpriced inflight snack service... So I don't think so..

IM
 
ABpositive
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:36 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:20 pm

Quoting IMatAMS (Reply 17):
IMatAMS

Couldn't agree more.
 
mikester540
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:48 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:43 pm

odd? In that picture (the newer yellow one to the left) I only see the hooks-- not the tables?
We need men who can dream of things that never were. -John F. Kennedy
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:08 pm

Quoting Mikester540 (Reply 19):
odd? In that picture (the newer yellow one to the left) I only see the hooks-- not the tables?

The dark blue-on-dark blue doesn't help, but if you look closely you can see the the outline of the tray table as well as the metal (gray) support/hinge for the tray table on the asile side.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
legoguy
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:15 pm

If the flight is short.....does it really matter. No one really complains about bus seats not having any foldaway tables or lack of literature pockets. If the journey is under one hour then these are some good methods of reducing weight and reducing the cost of tickets  Smile
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
malmoaviation
Posts: 379
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 7):
It would be strange to stare at the seat mounted emergency procedure cards for hours on end.

If they stare at them for hours, they know exactly how to evacuate, and then it goes faster, and faster = money. It's Ryanair style the whole thing Big grin
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
I've never flown Airtran, but from what I've heard, you can get impression on the metal support of the econ chairs on your butt from sitting in them for a while...

FL seats are not THAT bad. Their seats on their 73G's are Recaro - the same people who make seats for Ferrari. They are also 18" wide, which is generous for coach. They feel sort of wierd, but they certainly aren't the worst I've been in. Their 717-200 seats aren't as great, but still not terrible. The seats in the AmericaWest CRJ2 I was in a few years ago may qualify as the worst I've ever had to endure.. they did however have tray tables and seatback pockets, so as to avoid looking at the safety card.... a frontier flight attendent yelled at me once for not following along on the safety card... last time i ever flew F9.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
A340600
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:02 am

On my last flight with EZY I got a fresh 319 which unlike earlier deliveries doesn't have recline anymore. Good, if anyone reclined on me on an EZY flight I wouldn't be best pleased to see them in my lap,

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
airA380
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:27 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 7):
Quoting EGNR (Reply 3):
Compare the new style cabins to the old style cabins in the photos below:

It would be strange to stare at the seat mounted emergency procedure cards for hours on end.

Yeah, it scares the hell out off me when I flew from LTN to Rome. keep thinking it is going to crash but it might be very handy in event of emergency. When I am on flight I don't like being told about safety. When I hear the word safety I think of unfortunate event which may occur and its not a good feelings to have, I guess that just me.

Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 8):
But do many people actually spend a flight just staring at the seat in front of them?

I don't stare at it but it stare's at me .... Smile. Daaahhh
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
lhrneighbour
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:10 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:04 am

My two Ryanair flights last week were on 737-800's. Outgoing we had fabric seats, seat pockets and tables that extended out too. Coming back our 737-800 (with winglets) had leather seats, non-extendable tables and no seat pockets.
James
 
PMN
Posts: 547
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:44 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:12 am

I flew on EI-DLF when she was less than a week old and the aircraft was equipped with tray tables. In fact all the newer FR 738's I've flown on have had them.

Paul
Edith in his bed, a plane in the rain is humming, the wires in the walls are humming some song - some mysterious song
 
aeroplan73
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 4:59 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:41 am

Quoting LeonB1985 (Reply 8):
But do many people actually spend a flight just staring at the seat in front of them?

Well I didn't notice any in flight entertainment, so you have to look at something.  banghead 
I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
 
gopal
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 3:05 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:58 am

If the flight is short, Airlines can really economize on the seats so long as the cost savings are passed on to the passengers. On short haul flights I would not mind:
a) Bench seats with no armrests
b) Seats without cushions (Lower cleaning costs, fire hazard is lowered)
c) No window shades
d) No reading lights
d) seats which are not reclinable

If all of the above in lower installation and maintenance costs for airlines which result in lower fares, so be it.
 
thering
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:44 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:07 am

Airlines should think more about confort when the market is full of choices. See the Delta Shuttle 733, has 35''-37'' pitch economy seats, the plane is cofigurated to 120 pax total, the same number of a 733 with 31'' pitch sets and 12 Business class seats.
Now think, which of this to planes (733 Delta Shuttle or comum 733 with C12 seats, 120 pax total both) would be fully sold esier? Most passangers fly coach, so a really think that the airlines should think more about the economy class flyer.
146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
 
brilondon
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RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 11):
B4Real is correct - there is a latch, but no table on Ryanair. I wonder if Ryanair have worked out the collective weight of those 189 latches...

It would probably cost more to remove the latches then the amount of fuel savings the weight of the latches would afford
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
B6JFKH81
Posts: 1982
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:35 am

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Ikarus2006 (Thread starter):
Any other weight saving techniques you are aware of?

B6 is using single-engine taxi procedures to save fuel along with the famous winglet fly-off going on in Europe right now. As for weight, we are doing what we can, even looking at lighter beverage/trash carts that are in the gallies. We're not touching the seats though because of the IFE.
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
bohica
Posts: 2319
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting Aeroplan73 (Reply 7):
It would be strange to stare at the seat mounted emergency procedure cards for hours on end.

Would those seatback emergency cards be legal in the U.S.? I can see somebody who is bored peeling one off.

No. I am not suggesting any U.S. carrier paste emergency instructions on seatbacks.
 
ualcsr
Posts: 352
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

RE: Economy Class Seat - Stripped To The Minimum

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:37 pm

I flew Ryanair STN-SZG on the new 737-800. We had no seat pocket, but definitely had a non-adjustable tray table. The seats were extremely hard, felt like tough plastic, and uncomfortable, although for a 2 hour flight which cost £40 round-trip, we really couldn't complain. The "inflight magazine", which gets passed around by the flight attendants and later collected, is nothing more than a list of the items they sell on board which include, among other things, Lotto-type scratch off cards.

Ryanair is truly a unique airline that takes the LCC concept to the extreme. I couldn't believe our check in at STN was done manually, not a computer in sight, and the ticket agent who took our ticket at the gate was also a flight attendant on our flight and the baggage service rep at Salzburg Airport. All in a day's work!!!

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