SKY1
Topic Author
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The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:05 am

Iberia will have a low-cost subsidiary (20% in shares) based in Barcelona, Spain.

The most unknown is IB will have a code-share agreement with its low-cost partner and the Catair (name is not official yet) passenger will can use the FFP of IB, "Iberia Plus" ...then, so far I know, first time a low cost airline has a similar agreement with a full-service airline.

Iberia is having a very good idea. The best defence is a good counterattack to its low cost (EasyJet, FR, VY) competition.

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/889/catair2by.jpg

What do you think about this subject?

From the "El Periodico de Cataluña": (sorry, it is in Spanish)
Catair, la nueva compañía aérea de bajo coste participada por Iberia, está casi totalmente perfilada. Su base será el aeropuerto de El Prat, desde donde planea conectar con 56 ciudades españolas y extranjeras en tres años, realizar 170 vuelos diarios y captar un total de 14 millones de pasajeros antes de tres años. Del total de rutas desde Barcelona, 24 serán a destinos que Iberia no dispone actualmente desde El Prat. La nueva compañía de bajo coste abrirá nuevas líneas de negocio hacia Europa del Este.
A medio plazo, los objetivos de Catair son transportar cinco millones de viajeros en el 2007 y alcanzar la cifra de 10 millones en el 2008. Pero, por el momento, se conformará con captar 400.000 clientes en esta primera temporada de invierno a través de sus 2.499 derechos de aterrizaje y despegue (slots) que ya posee en El Prat.

La aerolínea comenzará su andadura con 10 rutas desde Barcelona pero, al cabo de tres años, tiene intención de realizar 56 conexiones, 20 de ellas nacionales y el resto al extranjero, principalmente hacia el este de Europa, como Moscú y Varsovia, y el norte de África


 arrow  The new carrier will use 5 airliners A-320 ...13 in 2007 and 30 by the end of 2008 and they will serve 54 European airports and 2 in North Africa.

Madrid-Barajas will not served by this new low-cost airline.

No doubt, a smart move from Iberia.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
TWAtwaTWA
Posts: 134
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:13 pm

My recent experience with Iberia is that they are already a no-frills low cost airline that doesn't offer much more than spanish version of WN that travels internationally. What else will they cut out to save costs? Remove seatcushions and ask you to pay for the padding?

Maybe someone can shed some more light on my experience, but my April flight on Iberia from LHR to MAD and return was very surprising for an international flight. The "first class" section of the B757 had identical seat width and legroom as coach! There was a "curtain" dividing the cabin, but that was about the only difference. Also the service was worse than WN: forget about the food that was of course not free, but for sale only, I had to pay for a coke! I couldn't even get water for free. Of course they also lost our bags as well for the entire time of our week long pleasure trip to Spain. the long line of angry passengers at the terminal without bags was one thing, but many of those waiting were frequent iberia travellers who were furious at the high frequency of lost bags on Iberia.

Sorry for the cynicism in this post, but we had quite a negative experience. Please someone explain to me what exactly Iberia is offering its first class international passengers other than free coke? Maybe they can charge the coach passengers a 1euro tariff for using the lavatory!
We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
 
TWAtwaTWA
Posts: 134
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:04 pm

ok perhaps my previous post was a bit off subject and negative.

back to the topic at hand...

i agree that iberia is launching what seems like a good idea. Southwestern Europe could use a carrier like this- maybe the can call it EuroSouthwest Airlines! Unfortunately, all the low-cost subsidiaries that were launched in the US have failed:

United-Ted
Delta-Song
United-United Shuttle
Delta-Delta Shuttle

there are perhaps many reasons for the failures, union deal, competition with smaller better-run los-cost carriers, amongst other reasons. Maybe the iberia low cost version may work, but i hope they studied the american failures before embarking on this new venture
We're your kind of airline. Uh, I mean, We *were* your kind of airline.
 
LAXintl
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:38 pm

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 1):
The "first class" section of the B757 had identical seat width and legroom as coach!

Welcome to Europe. Most European carriers short/medium premium products feature the same basic seating set ups as economy class. Most often the middle seat is left open, and on some it folds down creating a sort of table in between. Such cabins give the carriers great flexibility in using the same aircraft across their European and domestic networks on both leisure and business routes.

I believe the impetus for IB to develop a LCC has to do with its relatively high cost structure vis-a-vis Spanish and European LCCs which have heavily concentrated on attacking of the carriers Spanish regional airports. The IB LCC should help the carrier possibly win back market share with operating cost matching its competitors.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Magyarorszag
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:10 pm

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 2):
all the low-cost subsidiaries that were launched in the US have failed:

United-Ted
Delta-Song
United-United Shuttle
Delta-Delta Shuttle

Don't forget Continental Lite and its Peanuts Fares....
 
Humberside
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:53 pm

On the map I see there are red and blue symbols for each destination. Could someone translate what they represent from the key for me as I cant read Spanish.

Thanks
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HBDAN
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 5):
On the map I see there are red and blue symbols for each destination. Could someone translate what they represent from the key for me as I cant read Spanish.

Blue are destinations already served by IB, red are new destinations.

Regards,
HBDAN
Next flight: hopefully soon...
 
Humberside
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:16 pm

So it looks like EDI, MAN and SOU are new UK destinations.

SOU is a bit of a surprise
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TriStar500
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:22 pm

I believe the impetus for IB to develop a LCC has to do with its relatively high cost structure vis-a-vis Spanish and European LCCs which have heavily concentrated on attacking of the carriers Spanish regional airports. The IB LCC should help the carrier possibly win back market share with operating cost matching its competitors.


That's exactly the point. Iberia has been plagued with high staff costs and - due to the hub system - suboptimal block hour usage of its BCN-based fleet for quite a while. Combine this with dilluted yields at BCN due to the influx of low cost carriers (not that big of a problem at MAD due to slot limitations) and you'll see, what Iberia is intending to achieve here.
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Beaucaire
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:23 pm

I see NUE on their map-but what partner-airline of Iberia flies to NUE ???
LX are LH ( Star ),AF and KLM are Skyteam and no other airline in the Oneworld group serves NUE.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
legacy135
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:25 pm

If the creation of the new LC-daughter goes hand in hand with an adaption of the actual IB product to a more quality than price driven airline, I think it could be a good idea.

I think most of us do agree, that IB 's product at least within Europe is the one of a LCC. So by bringing it's product back to levels they once used to have, the new LC-Airline could be successful. If not, they will only have two competitors in house and then I don't see the reason for.

As IB's network goes trough MAD it makes sense to me, starting this new company in BCN, as BCN has mostly point - to - point connections within Europe. In the same, they can face the big competition of LCC's at BCN. By adapting the IB short haul product to the long range standard, it would also make sense, for the passengers, connecting trough MAD to the world.

Cheers
Legacy135 

[Edited 2006-06-26 12:45:58]
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 1):
my April flight on Iberia from LHR to MAD and return was very surprising for an international flight. The "first class" section of the B757 had identical seat width and legroom as coach! There was a "curtain" dividing the cabin, but that was about the only difference. Also the service was worse than WN: forget about the food that was of course not free, but for sale only, I had to pay for a coke! I couldn't even get water for free. Of course they also lost our bags as well for the entire time of our week long pleasure trip to Spain. the long line of angry passengers at the terminal without bags was one thing, but many of those waiting were frequent iberia travellers who were furious at the high frequency of lost bags on Iberia.

As laxintl has said above... This is Europe. And LHR-MAD despite being "international" is even shorter than what you call domestic (which is true) routes such as JFK-MIA or SEA-LAX....

More differences... It's not called First, It's Bussines. In your first class you have 2x2 seating and on european routes IB leaves the central seat blocked so there're only 4 people per row with more legroom than tourist. A business class ticket also allows you to enter the airport lounges, use designated check-in desks and have a shorter check-in deadline (usually 30 mins vs. 50 mins for tourist) and free meal service on board.

About the baggage... I've always heard Heathrow to be a black-hole for baggage... but Barajas also had "some" trouble for the opening of T4

Quoting TWAtwaTWA (Reply 1):
What else will they cut out to save costs?

Lots of things... They now run a network airline. They have to connect passengers, "connect" their bags, do multiple check-in for these people even on other airlines, pay ticket fees to GDS, reallocate pax in case of missing connections, issue vouchers in case of severe delayed baggage.....

That all costs money.... Let alone crew hotels. If you simplify the routes by flying Base-Destination-Base is cheaper (both aircraft and crew). Those "little" things could mean huge savings. Remember that story about removing one olive from each salad, I think it was AA who did it....
 
eha
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:04 pm

Any news on the strike called for July 10th-16th by the pilots, in response to the new LC ? what would be the routes affected ? I am travelling to MEX on the 20th...I'd like to be sure the conflict will not spread... I find very little news on this.

E.
 
Aisak
Posts: 549
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Eha (Reply 12):
what would be the routes affected ?

Usually when there's a strike, the following services shall not be affected:
-Routes between two islands
-Routes between mainland Spain and the islands
-Routes between mainland Spain and Ceuta and Mellila
-Routes longer than 500 km or 5 hours by other means of public transportation

That means only some Iberian routes could be affected such as MAD-LIS, BCN-AGP, BCN-ALC....

All flights operated by regional franchise Air Nostrum (IB-8xxx) will remain in place as well as IB-7xxx operated by other airlines. Same for 757 flights operated by AUDELI....

Anyway, if your flight gets cancelled IB will do its best to re-allocate you in other flight but expect the worse and hope for the best
 
canib7599
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:54 am

RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:30 am

Hi, just flew AF between LIS & CDG, with full service in y-class, incl wine with your meal. Later I flew CDG-MAD ( = same distance approx) and you were required to purchase ALL items from their menu. Water on board was even more expensive than the restaurants in the new T4 !
I agree, that in the past many pax ate the meals just to pass the time,so there was a lot of waste, however now it seems that this has become a big moneymaker. Mind you, here in Canada, even on a 5hr flight between YUL & YVR you have to purchase your drinks/meals.....times have changed !!
 
Asturias
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
I see NUE on their map-but what partner-airline of Iberia flies to NUE ???

I'm not sure I understand your question.. NUE is marked as a 'new destination *not* served already by the Iberia group' while the blue ones are 'destinations for the new airline', which are already served by Iberia.

cheers

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
Beaucaire
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:30 am

So that implicitely marks a new airline for NUE then -great-since Air Berlin promised since quite some time a new direct flight from NUE to Barcelona but never actually started it.All flights from NUE to Barcelona are via PMI ,MUC or ZUR .
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
RICARIZA
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:20 pm

Having a HUB in BCN could be very beneficial for AV now that it has a 3x weekly flights from BOG and 1x to ALC . It could be a good feed to their LATAM network. People wont have to travel to MAD to get to South America.. don't you think?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
PRAirbus
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:34 pm

The name "CAT-Air" makes sense since airline will be based in Cataluña but what about when it starts expanding to other markets? Why a more dynamic or appealing name was not chosen?
 
JJJ
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:56 pm

Catair is the legal name of the company (recently registered) but although it was first thought as the operating brand it will finally be not.

Catair Lineas Aereas S.A. has registered the domain clikair.com so that may well be the final brand name. In my opinion, sounds too cheap but that may well help sales.

Btw: Catair is currently hiring pilots so pilots out there, it's your chance to have a low-paying job in BCN  Smile
 
PacificFlyer
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:39 am

Why do they need a low-cost carrier now when they got rid of Viva AIr? Why not just bring back Viva Air?
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:06 pm

RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 18):
People wont have to travel to MAD to get to South America.. don't you think?

Absolutely. Additionally, BCN is a real nice airport, offering a nice terminal with plenty of nice shops and a variety of restaurants, from fast food up to a nice grill and by for not as crowded as MAD. I have to admit, I didn't use the new terminals in MAD yet, but BCN has a new one under construction as well.

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
SKY1
Topic Author
Posts: 611
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:31 pm

Quoting PacificFlyer (Reply 21):
Why not just bring back Viva Air?

Viva Air was a charter airline in a joint venture IB-LH in the beginning. Anyhow ....I like your idea very much  Wink

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 22):
I have to admit, I didn't use the new terminals in MAD yet

You should do it!!!  cloudnine 
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
Toulouse
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:16 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 20):
Catair Lineas Aereas S.A. has registered the domain clikair.com so that may well be the final brand name.

Have you ckecked clikair.com? It alreadu seems to belong to a French company.

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 22):
I didn't use the new terminals in MAD yet,

Terminal 4 is beautiful, a nice place to "visit", but undoubtedly the worst and most illogiccally designed terminal I have ever visited... it's awful if you're in a hurry. If you've got loads of time to spare, it's a pretty impressive place.

Quoting PacificFlyer (Reply 21):
Why not just bring back Viva Air?

Good idea, I likes Viva Air and I remember flying them quite a bit between Ireland and Spain, and they did do some scheduled routes (not just charters) for Iberia as I know Ireland-Spain was on their scheduled network
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
aeroplan73
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:34 pm

Quoting Canib7599 (Reply 14):
Mind you, here in Canada, even on a 5hr flight between YUL & YVR you have to purchase your drinks/meals.....times have changed !!

I try and fly Executive First between YVR and YYZ on AC. Failing that, you are right, the Economy service is pretty lacking on long domestic flights.

I recently tried Harmony in both Economy and Harmony One. You may want to give them a try, it's an experience that AC now fails to provide.
I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
 
mainMAN
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Thread starter):
The new carrier will use 5 airliners A-320 ...13 in 2007 and 30 by the end of 2008 and they will serve 54 European airports and 2 in North Africa.

Madrid-Barajas will not served by this new low-cost airline.

No doubt, a smart move from Iberia.

What isn't such a smart move from Iberia is suggesting which cities it intends to serve from BCN so far in advance. I don't get this, doesn't it give Vueling and other LCCs plenty of time to launch new services...?
 
JJJ
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 24):
Have you ckecked clikair.com? It alreadu seems to belong to a French company

Someone posted a whois search elsewhere saying the domain belonged to Catair, now I did the search myself and I see this French company.  Confused
 
Toulouse
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 26):
Someone posted a whois search elsewhere saying the domain belonged to Catair, now I did the search myself and I see this French company.

Problem solved, it's clickair.com (and not clikair.com) which is registered to Catair Linear Aéreas. Don't really like the name myslef?
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
JJJ
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:20 pm

Oh  Smile

I don't like it either, it says cheap in big capital letters.

Anyway, it's also been reported that IB mainline will codeshare with Catair/clickair on selected routes, what do you think of that?
 
Humberside
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:36 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 28):
Anyway, it's also been reported that IB mainline will codeshare with Catair/clickair on selected routes, what do you think of that?

Makes sense as passengers will be able to connect at BCN from the remaining IB flights there to the new Catair flights on one Iberia ticket
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rootsair
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:04 pm

Quoting HBDAN (Reply 6):

Blue are destinations already served by IB, red are new destinations.

Regards,
HBDAN

They made an error with GVA. GVA is ALREADY served by IB since many decades
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
mainMAN
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:27 pm

Catair wouldn't appeal to UK passengers, but Mediterranea would.
 
Arecibo
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:57 pm

Wounder how realistic is to pull out 400K passengers with 10 routes this season alone,when there is so much low cost carrier saturatuion at El Pratt.
Ni Modo.
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SKY1
Topic Author
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:03 am

RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:03 am

Quoting JJJ (Reply 28):
IB mainline will codeshare with Catair/clickair on selected routes, what do you think of that?

In my opinion this is the most important subject as this is the first time who a standard carrier will do code-share with a low cost airline and the IB-Plus card will be accepted in Catair/Clickair.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
Humberside
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:28 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 33):
In my opinion this is the most important subject as this is the first time who a standard carrier will do code-share with a low cost airline and the IB-Plus card will be accepted in Catair/Clickair.

I believe Qantas codeshare on Jetstar Asia flights
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SKY1
Topic Author
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Arecibo (Reply 32):
Wounder how realistic is to pull out 400K passengers with 10 routes this season alone,when there is so much low cost carrier saturatuion at El Pratt.

Sometimes things are not like it seems.

Please, check the current status more deeply by yourself (Wonder yourself about the map put above ...about the new destinations ...about the new shareholders ... Why in this moment is when IB decides to lauch it ...etc)

Quoting Humberside (Reply 34):

Is Jetstar a full low-cost airline or are they an airline type EI or Air Berlin?
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
TheSunseeker
Posts: 215
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RE: The New Iberia's Low-cost Airline

Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:25 am

its about time, because Iberia is too expensive for 2006 standards.
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