leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:48 pm

WSJ 26 June 2006:

...Steven Udvar-Hazy, chairman and chief executive officer of International Lease Finance Corp., said scheduling has slipped to the point that ILFC would be within its rights to cancel five of the 10 A380s it ordered.

However, Mr. Udvar-Hazy said ILFC and other major customers for the A380 are likely to stick with Airbus.

"I don't think we want to start a run on the bank and destroy a good company that has made some adolescent mistakes," he said in an interview. "In the long term, it's in the best interest of the entire industry to have two strong players out there making jets..."


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115126900084590071.html

This seems to be a significantly milder tone than the remarks Mr. Udvar-Hazy made to Bloomberg concerning the A380 imbroglio last week:

... He said the contract lets his company scrap the deal without penalties after a six-month delay.

``We could cancel and are considering canceling all or some of our A380 order,'' he said in a telephone interview yesterday. ``We are not happy and on safe ground to cancel the order.''


http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...000006&sid=aoWD6Z3zksqk&refer=home
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:12 pm

Sounds as if Airbus have made him a pretty generous compensation offer.

What with launch prices, the devalued $US, three delays, possible performance shortfalls etc., the A380 customers must be getting pretty close to receiving free aeroplanes by now.  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:20 pm

What a bunch of rubbish, he's only looking after his own investments....

He speaks from both sides of his mouth....

I've lost respect for him.
"Up the Irons!"
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:27 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):

However, Mr. Udvar-Hazy said ILFC and other major customers for the A380 are likely to stick with Airbus.

Who's Udvar to speak in the name of these 'other major customers'? Udvar should stick to ILFC, and I doubt SQ, EK or any other A380 customer appriciates Udvar acting like their spokesman. Unless these 'other major customers' are potential customers for ILFC's A380's, who've asked for an explanation from ILFC, after Udvar's comments last week.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
the A380 customers must be getting pretty close to receiving free aeroplanes by now.

That's right, they even come with filled up tanks.  Yeah sure
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:29 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Sounds as if Airbus have made him a pretty generous compensation offer.

Or maybe a few people have told him to pull his head in.

As I remember, he needs customers, too.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
astuteman
Posts: 6347
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:29 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
He speaks from both sides of his mouth....

I've lost respect for him.

Agreed

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
However, Mr. Udvar-Hazy said ILFC and other major customers for the A380 are likely to stick with Airbus.

Does this then mean that yet another A380 customer has reaffirmed their commitment to their order? (in this case one that was slated to be almost certain to cancel?)

Regards
 
707lvr
Posts: 457
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:41 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:40 pm

Considering the number of people on the planet who do what he does for a living ... what, 5? ... I'd be interested in what he has to say, like it or not.
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mis

Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):

"I don't think we want to start a run on the bank and destroy a good company that has made some adolescent mistakes," he said in an interview.

I love that quote from Udvar. If Airbus mistakes are "some adolescent mistakes" then his reactions have been childish.

So the next time he doesn't get exactly what he wants, perhaps, he could refrain from throwing a tantrum in public purely for attention and behave in a more adult manner.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):

What with launch prices, the devalued $US, three delays, possible performance shortfalls etc., the A380 customers must be getting pretty close to receiving free aeroplanes by now. Smile

Well from Udvar's tone in previous weeks, I had the feeling that Airbus couldn't even give him the planes.


Yippee Airbus is back. Udvar likes it again, the world will follow.
 
mymiles2go
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 4:00 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:19 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
What a bunch of rubbish, he's only looking after his own investments....

He speaks from both sides of his mouth....

I've lost respect for him.

Exactly who's investments should be looking after then? Seriously...this is a business world, not a 'look at the pretty jet fly' kinda world.

You've lost respect for him because he played Airbus apparently well enough in the past week to at least publically sound as if they kissed and made up?

The fact that ILFC may have (or likely did) screw up in the first place is pretty much irrelevant. ILFC won the PR war, and apparently the behind the scenes war. There really isn't much left if you win both of those.
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:20 pm

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 7):
Yippee Airbus is back. Udvar likes it again, the world will follow

At least the EADS shares have gained more than 12 % in six days - I bought the day they lost 27 % and it was one of my better investments ....
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 8):
ILFC won the PR war, and apparently the behind the scenes war.

What evidence is there that he has won either of those?

Most of his public war has been about the A350. Nothing seems to have changed there yet.

One of the few things he has said about the A380 is that he might cancel his order.

But he hasn't. Or it seems that he isn't.

So - what is it that he has won?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:28 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
At least the EADS shares have gained more than 12 % in six days - I bought the day they lost 27 % and it was one of my better investments ....

Same here, a bit later for me, not that either of us would ever call it making a profit from other's misfortune.

May the rise continue
 
SeJoWa
Posts: 419
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 6:11 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:07 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):

At least the EADS shares have gained more than 12 % in six days - I bought the day they lost 27 % and it was one of my better investments ....

The prudent time to judge your investment is after you've sold it again (not to say you weren't a savvy buyer).
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:11 pm

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 7):
ippee Airbus is back. Udvar likes it again, the world will follow.

He now prefers to be referred to as: The Lessor, formerly known as Udvar-Hazy. Big grin
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting SeJoWa (Reply 12):
The prudent time to judge your investment is after you've sold it again (not to say you weren't a savvy buyer).

Indeed. Selling at the right time is far more difficult than buying at the right time.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 14):
Quoting SeJoWa (Reply 12):
The prudent time to judge your investment is after you've sold it again (not to say you weren't a savvy buyer).

Indeed. Selling at the right time is far more difficult than buying at the right time.

He ain't half as happy as I am, I've been short EADS since February and have covered 75% of the position since June 13th.  bouncy 
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
NYC777
Posts: 5076
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:06 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 15):
He ain't half as happy as I am, I've been short EADS since February and have covered 75% of the position since June 13th.

Nice bet!  bigthumbsup 
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
What a bunch of rubbish, he's only looking after his own investments....

He speaks from both sides of his mouth....

I've lost respect for him.

Yes, he should just keep critizing Airbus on all fronts.

He is losing all credit (he build up at a.net lately).

Just now everthing seem settled, he dares to complicate things like this  Sad


http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/EVENTS/SIGNATURE/att00001549/media_object_image_lowres_709X473_customersILFC7D7A8.jpg

http://www.ilfc.com/airbus.htm
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:27 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 16):
Nice bet!

Thanx, I just couldn't resist after all the long-faces on the dais at January 17th order-fest and once Mr. Leahy proposed offering cash-back on A340s.  Smile
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
tockeyhockey
Posts: 880
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:57 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:33 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
What a bunch of rubbish, he's only looking after his own investments....

He speaks from both sides of his mouth....

I've lost respect for him.

haven't quite lost total respect for him -- the man is a genius. he's just backtracking a bit on his earlier statements, which he now realizes were too harsh.

and you're right, he's just looking out for his investments. since when is that a bad thing?

if airbus goes under, boeing sets monopoly pricing on all jets bigger than the emb-195. that is not a good thing for anyone in the airline industry, and it wouldn't be a good thing for the consumer or the global economy either.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:40 pm

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 19):
he's just backtracking a bit on his earlier statements, which he now realizes were too harsh.

... or he's reached a different stage of the negotiations.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mis

Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:58 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):

Keesje, was that shot taken at the Former Used-Car Salesmen Reunion or was it the latest brunch meeting of Co-Dependents Anonymous?

[Edited 2006-06-26 15:05:03]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:07 pm

He is entitled to his opinion like everyone else. He is right that it's not worth destroying Airbus over, but that wouldn't happen anyway.
One Nation Under God
 
spartanmjf
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:31 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:27 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 15):
He ain't half as happy as I am, I've been short EADS since February and have covered 75% of the position since June 13th.

Bravo and congratulations!
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
Johnny
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:38 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:32 pm

I think the meaning of that guy is not worth to listen very carefully.It is changing every week.

He is forgetting one thing:

NOT ILFC is a huge and important customer for Airbus and Boeing, all the airlines which will get their aeroplanes from ILFC together are the big customer.

ILFC is nothing more than SIXT,Eurocar, Avis or Hertz.

It sometimes sound like he wants to operate the airplanes on specific routes by himself...

I think ILFC got some pressure from some of their biggest customers to be a little bit more gentle in the media...  Wink
 
TL925
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:15 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:34 pm

It's said the only way to become a millionaire in the aviation industry is to start off as a billionaire. Steven Udvar-Hazy is the only person I can think of who has become a billionaire off the aviation industry, and am inclined to say he must know something about the industry if that's the case.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6692
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:45 pm

Regarding the quote about destorying Airbus, is he implying that person's would set out to destroy an airline manufacturer?

Is this another case of blaming the customer when your products don't sell, or are we now learning what actually happened to the last airplane manufacturer that folded, that a conspiracy was hatched to destory the MD11 and only now after someoone gets the "foot in the mouth" disease that the truth is finally coming out?
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mis

Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:48 pm

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 23):
Bravo and congratulations!

Thanx, I'm mildly regretful I didn't follow my hunch to really start selling EADS aggressively after Mr. Champions strange mutterings on the BBC's "Hardtalk" program in mid-May, I could have retired. Oh well, no guts, no glory.

[Edited 2006-06-26 16:01:41]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:28 am

Wow...it's really interesting when the Airbus fanatics come out with such harsh criticism for one of the leading aviation entrepreneurs and businessmen in the world just because he says the truth in a loud and unabashed manner.

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
"I don't think we want to start a run on the bank and destroy a good company that has made some adolescent mistakes," he said in an interview. "In the long term, it's in the best interest of the entire industry to have two strong players out there making jets..."

These are fundamental truths in this business. The airlines need two manufacturors otherwise there'd be no price competition or incentive to radically accelerate the technology to provide better goods and services.
Personally I wish there were two US manufacturors so there'd be less political knifefighting over it, or perhaps 4 majors with a couple here and a couple overseas (to us)...but wishing won't make it so.

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
... He said the contract lets his company scrap the deal without penalties after a six-month delay.

This is true, and a consideration he must take into account prior to making forward moving decisions.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
Sounds as if Airbus have made him a pretty generous compensation offer.

perhaps, but he's also looking out for his company by supporting competition.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
What a bunch of rubbish, he's only looking after his own investments....

Why is that rubbish?

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
I've lost respect for him.

He's reading this now and is very disappointed.

Quoting Manni (Reply 3):
Who's Udvar to speak in the name of these 'other major customers'?

Another Airbus blind fanatic who won't acknowledge the real problems and gets mad at truth sayers.

Quoting Manni (Reply 3):
Udvar should stick to ILFC, and I doubt SQ, EK or any other A380 customer appriciates Udvar acting like their spokesman.

When he sticks to ILFC he's then sticking to every potential customer he has out there, and there are plenty of airlines that need his services.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
Or maybe a few people have told him to pull his head in.

I doubt that. No one talks to the 800lb gorilla that way....Udvar-Hazy is one of the leading figures in the aviation business and he got that way on his own...no political figure engineered his position, he wasn't the product of some recruitment process after a merger....you guys need to look at this rationally.

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 6):
Considering the number of people on the planet who do what he does for a living ... what, 5? ... I'd be interested in what he has to say, like it or not.

Seriously.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 7):
I love that quote from Udvar. If Airbus mistakes are "some adolescent mistakes" then his reactions have been childish.

Wrong....his reactions have been more of the reactions of an irritated sponsor/patron who's desires and wishes have been either ignored or dismissed for non-rational reasons.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 7):
So the next time he doesn't get exactly what he wants, perhaps, he could refrain from throwing a tantrum in public purely for attention and behave in a more adult manner.

He did exactly the right thing. He got their attention when obviously they weren't listening otherwise.

Quoting EbbUK (Reply 7):
Yippee Airbus is back. Udvar likes it again, the world will follow.

That's a bit of overstatement that really addresses nothing useful.

Quoting Mymiles2go (Reply 8):
You've lost respect for him because he played Airbus apparently well enough in the past week to at least publically sound as if they kissed and made up?

I don't think he 'played' Airbus for anything. I think he was performing an intervention with Airbus designed to help them right the ship so there will be an Airbus down the road with competitive products.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
At least the EADS shares have gained more than 12 % in six days - I bought the day they lost 27 % and it was one of my better investments ....

Well done.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
Most of his public war has been about the A350. Nothing seems to have changed there yet.

People have gotten caught up in the Whalejet because it's more glamorous and represents a potential complete disaster (other than the fact that much of the development cost will not need to be repaid if the thing doesn't make a profit).

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
So - what is it that he has won?

The attention of his supplier who was offtrack.

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 13):

He now prefers to be referred to as: The Lessor, formerly known as Udvar-Hazy.

Funny....what do you call the 80olb gorilla? Whatever he says to...  Wink

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
He is losing all credit (he build up at a.net lately).

Yeah, he's really worried about how much you personally respect him.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 17):
Just now everthing seem settled, he dares to complicate things like this

Are you being ironic?

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 19):
he's just backtracking a bit on his earlier statements, which he now realizes were too harsh.

I don't think he believes the previous statements were too harsh, and I don't think he's backtracking......he's simply saying that we need competition and this issue should not make the airlines push them out of business.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 19):
you're right, he's just looking out for his investments. since when is that a bad thing?

it isn't

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 19):
if airbus goes under, boeing sets monopoly pricing on all jets bigger than the emb-195. that is not a good thing for anyone in the airline industry, and it wouldn't be a good thing for the consumer or the global economy either.

wait....are you using logic? stop it..you'll confuse too many here...

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
I think the meaning of that guy is not worth to listen very carefully.

Well....that's a surprise coming from johnny/keesje/mariner/manni etc...

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
NOT ILFC is a huge and important customer for Airbus and Boeing,

What? I don't really follow that....I think there is an English translation issue.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
all the airlines which will get their aeroplanes from ILFC together are the big customer.

Those airlines are dependent on ILFC for the assistance in many cases because they need to use the lease terms to make the finances work on their deal.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
ILFC is nothing more than SIXT,Eurocar, Avis or Hertz.

Wrong-o-wrong-o-wrong.......... leasing companies provide services for people, and there are not that many large independent leasing companies for airplanes out there.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
I think ILFC got some pressure from some of their biggest customers to be a little bit more gentle in the media...

I doubt it.

Quoting TL925 (Reply 25):
Steven Udvar-Hazy is the only person I can think of who has become a billionaire off the aviation industry, and am inclined to say he must know something about the industry if that's the case.

More logic...stop it.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 26):
Is this another case of blaming the customer when your products don't sell, or are we now learning what actually happened to the last airplane manufacturer that folded, that a conspiracy was hatched to destory the MD11 and only now after someoone gets the "foot in the mouth" disease that the truth is finally coming out?

Hunh? My irony detector is sort of malfunctioning after reading this thread....are you kidding?
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:55 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
NOT ILFC is a huge and important customer for Airbus and Boeing,



Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
What? I don't really follow that....I think there is an English translation issue.

I'm guessing Johnny meant "Note" rather than "NOT".
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6692
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:59 am

You have it right, I think irony is the main theme of this thread.

He bashed Airbus when they "faltered" and now that they are responding he is backing down, that's what a "responsible" customer does when his concerns are addressed.

Have no idea why people are getting their "knickers" in a twist.
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
Wow...it's really interesting when the Airbus fanatics come out with such harsh criticism for one of the leading aviation entrepreneurs and businessmen in the world just because he says the truth in a loud and unabashed manner.

During the week Steven Udvar-Hazy dismissed the A350 he also said publicly:

- "Boeing is going to have a hard time finding buyers for the passenger version of the 747-8. Current 747 operators "will look at it very carefully" "But it depends on how competitive Boeing can be on pricing,"

- "the 737 is a 40-year-old design. It's narrower than Airbus' competing A320, and that's led some airlines to shy away from it"

For reasons unclear to me it was not really picked up in the media & wasn't endlessly "refreshed" / qouted at airliners.net

http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/06/03/29/100bus_corliss001.cfm

DL021, agree with you he must be

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
one of the leading aviation entrepreneurs and businessmen in the world just because he says the truth in a loud and unabashed manner
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
sphealey
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 12:39 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:29 am

>> ILFC won the PR war, and apparently the
>> behind the scenes war.

> What evidence is there that he has won
> either of those?

You might want to go back and re-read the history of Carly Fiorina's last 3 months at Hewlett-Packard.

sPh
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 6692
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:44 am

KeesJe I have one question which has been banded about for a while. If the width difference of the A320 over the B737 is such a hugh issue, should I assume that it only relates to narrow body a/c?

The B777 is wider than the A340 but that was not a contributing factor to its supposed "dominance" in recent times, that was the result of fuel efficiency.

When we talk about width, I don't think there is much to compare when you look at the difference between the A320 and B737 versus the A340 and B777
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 29):
I'm guessing Johnny meant "Note" rather than "NOT".

To be vary fair his English is probably 1000 times better than my German, so I was just looking to clarify his meaning in that sentence. I'm willing to bet it was not complimentary to Udvar-Hazy, but I hate to assume.

Quoting Par13del (Reply 30):
He bashed Airbus when they "faltered" and now that they are responding he is backing down, that's what a "responsible" customer does when his concerns are addressed.

I don't think that we're communicating with the same level of colloquial English, again, which prevents some people from misusing the phrase "backing down" which to most native English speakers equates to "retreat" or "retract". I don't believe Udvar-Hazy is doing either. He's simply trying the "hurt 'em and help 'em" technique for such situations. He forced them to acknowledge his concerns, which were also the concerns of many Airbus andairline managers who evidently spoke their own pieces with him and encouraged him to take the necessary steps as they were being ignored because they did not carry sufficient weight to get through the political and corporate inertia.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 31):
- "Boeing is going to have a hard time finding buyers for the passenger version of the 747-8. Current 747 operators "will look at it very carefully" "But it depends on how competitive Boeing can be on pricing,"

Truth here, but Boeing is not launching a brand new product...they acknowledge launching a derivative that offers some real value, and will probably not try to kill on the price of this thing. They're looking to compete against the A380 and perhaps take some marketshare, and they offer a real value for freight which is a growing market. He's not saying that Boeing is making a mistake with the product, simply managing expectations and offering frank evaluations. Did you hear him tell Boeing to do anything beyond reduce price?

Quoting Keesje (Reply 31):
- "the 737 is a 40-year-old design. It's narrower than Airbus' competing A320, and that's led some airlines to shy away from it"

Another truth, but the 737 is still gathering in close to half the market, and offers superior characteristics to the A320 in some areas. In the single aisle market the fuselage width is not as important (else the 717) would have sold through the roof) since cargo is not the primary purpose for these airplanes. It's also next on the list for replacement by Boeing and I believe Udvar-Hazy knows this. One of the primary reasons some airlines shied away from 737 was also price and financing terms. He knows that too, which is one of the reasons he likes the A320 and is motivated to get Boeing to put something new out....he gets better residual values on newer design airplanes.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 31):
For reasons unclear to me it was not really picked up in the media & wasn't endlessly "refreshed" / qouted at airliners.net

Because they weren't as important in the scheme of things.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 31):
DL021, agree with you he must be

I've seen Yoda, Yoda is a friend of mine......and you're no Yoda.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
What a bunch of rubbish, he's only looking after his own investments....

He speaks from both sides of his mouth....

And his investments run into the billions. Of course, he must look after his own investments. He's a businessman after all, and one of Airbus' largest clients.

The number one rule in business is "you don't make your clients unhappy."

At least Hazy is still sticking with Airbus.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
NADC10Fan
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:03 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mis

Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:43 am

I see important stuff getting lost in all the extraneous sound and fury.

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
"I don't think we want to start a run on the bank and destroy a good company ... In the long term, it's in the best interest of the entire industry to have two strong players out there making jets..."

Very important points, here, regardless the messenger. Cancelling A380 orders en masse could crack Airbus severely, worse then they may be now (if that can be said). And SUV is also right that it's in the best interests of the entire industry to have two strong players - and a cracked Airbus is the opposite of that.

Get past the BS, that's the lesson - and it's a wise one. I suggest paying attention to that, whatever one's feelings for or against the messenger.
TANSTAAFL!
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23214
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:10 am

The last thing ILFC wants is for their A380s and A380Fs to sit on the tarmac as "white tails", costing them money.

So if Udvar-Hazy was harsh with Airbus in his comments, might it not have been driven in part because the customers he had lined up to lease the planes to were harsh to him and were considering cancelling their lease agreements?

So perhaps Udvar-Hazy was able to extract additional conditions from Airbus to appease his customers, or perhaps those customers have since calmed down themselves and have decided to continue to commit to their agreements. So Udvar-Hazy has toned down his own rhetoric in kind.
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 34):
I've seen Yoda, Yoda is a friend of mine......and you're no Yoda.

Damn sure! Do you see him often?
http://www.starwars-tw.com/story/character/jedi/yoda_ep1.jpg

Quoting Stitch (Reply 37):
So perhaps Udvar-Hazy was able to extract additional conditions from Airbus to appease his customers

Perhaps Steven was surprized a bit about the media lift-off after his comments & now he is trying to bring back some sense.

One thing´s for sure: he has to do better then that here on a.net!  Wink
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
schipholjfk
Posts: 521
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:11 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
ILFC is nothing more than SIXT,Eurocar, Avis or Hertz.

Slight difference... people can afford to buy cars. Most people rent cars when they are out of town when they are unable to take their own car with them. But airplanes are a much more costly investment.

ILFC is just as important to various airliners as airline companies are to ILFC. Not everyone can afford to buy new planes all the time... that is where a company like ILFC come in and allow airliners to grow by keeping operational costs reasonable.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
.you guys need to look at this rationally.

Yes, indeed. Perhaps that is what Mr. Udvar-Hazy is doing now.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
People have gotten caught up in the Whalejet because it's more glamorous and represents a potential complete disaster

What does that have to do with what I wrote? What does that have to do with Mr. Udvar-Hazy's public statements about the A350?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
The attention of his supplier who was offtrack.

How so? The A350 situation remnains unresolved.

As to the A380, Mr. Udvar-Hazy said he might cancel his order, and then he said he might not.

I can't imagine what that achieved.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 28):
Why is that rubbish?

just find his comments to be a bit "off-the-hook"......on one end he raves about his purchases, then a few months later he disses then....seen this one too many times from him

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 35):

And his investments run into the billions. Of course, he must look after his own investments. He's a businessman after all, and one of Airbus' largest clients.

true...but why the continuous berating of Airbus products in public?
"Up the Irons!"
 
Rob878
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:35 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
What a bunch of rubbish, he's only looking after his own investments....

He speaks from both sides of his mouth....

I've lost respect for him.

He still said he is going to stick with airbus... which is pretty generous from his side. There is a reason people sign contracts, other wise people could lose business and money.


I think he is being pretty generous not cancelling all of the orders. I like Airbus, but they got in over their heads promising things that they could not deliver. Therefore breaking their end of the contract, so why should someone else not excersise the rights of their contract???? Anyone??????



Rob
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:58 pm

I seem to remember United initially ordering the DC-10 because it was not in UAL's best interests to have Douglas go under...and that was publically stated.


Udvar-Hazy is a member of a very select group: those that have made millions in the airline industry. The man is an entreprenurial genius, and for a.net members to whine that they've "lost all respect for him" is...well...amusing.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 43):
The man is an entreprenurial genius, and for a.net members to whine that they've "lost all respect for him" is...well...amusing.

that's my opinion.....I'm sure your opinions on A.net don't matter all too either..or should I say....they are probably "amusing"..... sarcastic 
"Up the Irons!"
 
N600RR
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:01 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
However, Mr. Udvar-Hazy said ILFC and other major customers for the A380 are likely to stick with Airbus.

(emphasis added)
I notice he said "likely to", not "definitely going to", which doesn't completely close the door.... scratchchin 
"And the fluffy white lines that the airplane leaves behind are drifting right in front of the waning of the moon" -Cake
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:41 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 43):
The man is an entreprenurial genius, and for a.net members to whine that they've "lost all respect for him" is...well...amusing.

So - a.netters aren't supposed to think for themselves, to have their own view of things?

In my (humble) opinion, Steven Spielberg made a couple of great movies - and he also made a few stinkers.

Obviously, such heresy - the stinkers - should not be allowed on a.net.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
l1049a
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:54 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:46 pm

A couple of business fundamentals: 1) Don't promise something you can't deliver and 2) if you promise and don't deliver you likely will face cancellations and/or penalties.
This is a relatively simple concept and quite common.
 
keesje
Posts: 8867
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mistake

Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:21 pm

I'm surprized by the extreme judgements & far reaching conclusions / forecasts some people make at a result of slipping a date.

The 787 will probably be late & overweight. Will that spell the end of Boeing, will most airlines withdraw their orders & change the balance in the industry?

Come on, of course not. Sensible airlines listen to their specialists, calculated in some scenarios they really wouldn't like, put it in their contracts somehow.

Steven Udvar-Hazy has seen it all before, isn't always right, sometimes thinks its handy to play things public, sometimes not. He / ILFC probably has a meeting with Enders / Airbus next week and puts some oil on the waves.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Udvar-Hazy: Don't Destroy Airbus Over A380 Mis

Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:11 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 48):

In the past, major "slips" in the delivery of aircraft from a "new program" have almost always been directly attributable to problems with the powerplants/engine manufacturers, not fundamental airframe design flaws or poor project management on the part of the OEMs. Airbus has certainly broken new ground with the A380 as the delays so far are entirely attributable to the missteps of the OEM, and it remains unclear whether the customers have seen the "light at the end of tunnel" yet.

Whether the 787 is destined to be "late and overweight" remains to be seen, Mr. McNerney, et al, say they're on top of it, see: Turbocharging Boeing: McNerney Interview (by Leelaw Jun 26 2006 in Civil Aviation).
The fact that Airbus has bungled its marquee program doesn't mean it's preordained that Boeing will meet the same fate. If they do, their customers, including Mr. Udvar-Hazy, and shareholders will take them to task as well.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae