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Buyantukhaa
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New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:40 pm

A German businessman has founded an airline dedicated to smokers.

Smintair, or "Smokers' International Airways," aims to cater for smoking passengers, particularly from Asia, who feel they have been squeezed out of the market.

Its first aircraft are due to take off in October on a route between Dusseldorf and Tokyo and are expected to serve mainly Japanese businessmen.

Smintair's founder, Alexander Schoppmann, himself a 30-a-day man, said he was trying to offer an alternative in an age when smoking is banned on all major airlines.

"It disturbs me that I pay a lot of money for a ticket only to be told what I can and cannot do," he said.


What a joke...

Smintair's founder, Alexander Schoppmann, a 30-a-day man, said: "There are no laws banning smoking on board. The airlines have made these rules themselves because no-smoking planes are cheaper. It means you don't have to change the air filter system so regularly."


http://www.nysun.com/article/35150
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...Sheet=/news/2006/06/27/ixnews.html
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
JoKeR
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:48 pm

I'm a smoker myself but I never ever lit up in the air (back in the days). Its simply disgusting!
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
CV580Freak
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:51 pm

Good God , April the 1st again already  Smile
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
express1
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:00 pm

We pump a load of money into the government funds,when we buy a pack of 20,so why are they telling us where we can smoke and where we cannot smoke. Good luck to the guy if he can bring an Airline into service that says

(yes smoking please) insted of no smoking please.

dave
David.S cavanagh since 1961,if you can do better,then show me.
 
abc9
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:12 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
A German businessman has founded an airline dedicated to smokers.

Before the smoking police jump all over this thread, remember it's a matter of choice - no-one will be forced to fly on this airline. If he can get the load factor to make a success of this, then best of luck to him. In the short term, with the novelty factor and the routing he's apparently looking at, it could be a runner, but long term I can't really see it being a lasting success.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:14 pm

Only 85p for 20 here  Smile

But yep, a great idea ................
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
B777-700
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
"It disturbs me that I pay a lot of money for a ticket only to be told what I can and cannot do," he said.



Quoting Express1 (Reply 3):
so why are they telling us where we can smoke and where we cannot smoke.

Because it's their aircraft, not yours.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
Spoke2Spoke
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:20 pm

Interesting idea. Its essentially a boutique airline aiming for a very specific market. As the majors generalize their products more and more, I wouldn't be suprised to see more airlines like this.

What other specific markets could we see an airline attempt to specialize in and serve?
...carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks. - Wilbur Wright
 
lordanmol
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:32 pm

Here is their website

http://smintair.com/

Regards
Hmmmmm....
 
jumbopilot
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:55 pm

I am a non smoker, but this is an interesting project.

If all the pax and the staff are agreed it is ok. That`s all adult people they should know what they do. For all the other ones there are enough usual airlines available.

If you have a look to their website note the drawings of the cabins. Huge space for everyone, just 138 seats per a/c.

Guess they claim a lot of money for a ticket. So, it is nothing for me, cause I would get pain in my head.  talktothehand 

Derek

Carpe Diem
 
BA787
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:03 am

Im all for freedom of choice but this is taking the piss
Its is quite often for safety purposes and just defeates the object. Also what happens if a family has to use these flights

And btw I am fourteen and think smoking is a disgusting habit

Tom
 
BA787
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):

Bit harsh and I wonder who the sponsors are. Marlboro or British Tobacco perhaps


Tom
 
jumbopilot
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:15 am

BA787:

Tom,

Basically I am on you side. But I think, liable families won't go this way.

Derek
Carpe Diem
 
desertjets
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:19 am

This is almost as silly as the idea of starting a LCC just b/c you have 150 CRJs lying around. And we all know how well that worked.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
David L
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
Also what happens if a family has to use these flights

No-one has to use those flights. There's already an established network of non-smoking flights around the globe. If someone wants to start extra flights aimed at smokers, I really don't see what business it is of people who don't smoke - just don't take those flights!  Smile
 
lapper
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
Also what happens if a family has to use these flights

Families don't HAVE to use the flights. It's primarily set up for businessmen who travel between Germany and Japan and want to smoke. Take a look at the website and have a chuckle while you read it, it looks like it's been created as a college project.

When I first saw the name of the carrier, I thought it was going to be sponsored by the mint company to keep the smokers breath fresh!!!
 
samair
Posts: 194
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:24 am

A good idea for Charter holiday makers for PMI TFS on high density routes

[Edited 2006-06-27 17:32:34]
the captain has now dimmed the lights for take off this is a routine procedure for flights during the hours of darkness!
 
David L
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:26 am

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 13):
This is almost as silly as the idea of starting a LCC just b/c you have 150 CRJs lying around.

I don't see the similarity. In one case you have a fleet looking for a market and in the other you have a perceived market that requires a fleet. Whether the market is substantial enough remains to be seen, of course. Last time I checked the site it was looking like an all business affair.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
Its is quite often for safety purposes

I think it's more for heath reasons, i.e. forcing other passengers and especially crew (as they spend more time in the air) to breath second hand smoke. I'm not saying smoking in the air is "safe" but it's not high in the list of accident causes.
 
kanebear
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:53 am

I think it's a great idea but the destination is wrong. China would be the PERFECT market for this.
 
747spa330md11
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:04 am

But who will lease the planes to the airline. After one year in service the cabin is fully contaminated with yellow nicotine - return to other airline will be impossible
Save the 747 SP !!
 
abc9
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 10):
Also what happens if a family has to use these flights



Quoting ABC9 (Reply 4):
remember it's a matter of choice - no-one will be forced to fly on this airline.

I think any family head who chose to fly on this airline would be showing a touch of irresponsibility to his younger kin. Mind you with just 138 seats it sounds like it would be a very expensive way to fly a family to a holiday destination. There are enough smoke-free and less expensive options between Germany and Japan that there's no reason for a family to ever need to fly with them.
 
contrails
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:41 am

For the price pax will have to pay for a ticket it should come with complimentary lung cancer and emphysema screening.

I'm glad that smoking is no longer allowed on US carriers.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
CO7e7
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:46 am

What aircraft are they going to operate ??
The website mentions a Jumbo Jet and also talk about the sponsors and the jet fuel for a 744...
so if their choice is a 744... where are they getting it from ??? Brand new from Boeing ?

-Zaki

[Edited 2006-06-27 18:51:24]
 
bomber996
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:55 am

Now my question is... will I be allowed to smoke my Cigar on this flight, or will the cigarette smokers complain about that?

As far as I'm concerned, I hope this airline is a smashing success. Then I wont have to sit next to the one who complains about not being able to light up. In the long run these people are only killing themselves.  tombstone 

Peace  box 
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
BA787
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:08 am

Quoting Contrails (Reply 21):
I'm glad that smoking is no longer allowed on US carriers

I second that.
It is freedom of choice, but currently I think that smoking needs to be discouraged as it causes death, not encouraged by an airline that is obviously sponsored by a major tobacco firm (rather large budget don't you think?). If passengers want to commit a slow and painful suicide then so be it. Also, what sort of a business plan is this? An airline designed solely for smokers will not go very far in my view, if anything more people will become aware of the fatal dangers of smoking and quit, which would render this airline rather useless. And yes what will the airline do when it goes bust as no self respecting airline will buy a plane that is nicotine stained. Imagine the atmosphere, 139 smokers lighting up, it will be a m,iracle if the crew can see where to go? Will the crew be allowed to light up?

Just a niche market that with a bit of luck will be rendered useless in the near future.

Tom
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting David L (Reply 17):
Last time I checked the site it was looking like an all business affair.

But some of their "thoughts" are rather tasteless:

Ladies and Gentlemen, dear Guests,

Before I would like to share my next to 50 years of experience as an airline passenger with you, I'd like to take the opportunity to clear one of the biggest lies floating around everywhere in the World:
"Second Hand Smoke (SHS, a.k.a. ETS, Environmental Tobacco Smoke) damages your health".
The WHO (World Health Orgaisation) confirms in all of it's studies concerning the subject, that ETS has not even a statistcally relevant effect on the non-smoker's health! If you want to go deeper into the subject, without prejudice, please refer to following link: http://www.antibrains.com/shs.html. You will be more than surprised of the amount of facts and neutral proof. By the way, did you know that the NAZIs also sported a huge Anti-Smoking campaign? Yes, they did and the one we experience now carries exactly the same insignia.

[...]

I do hope to be able to welcome you aboard of one of our flights, may you be a smoker or not.

Your Alexander W. Schoppmann
Managing Director - SMINTAIR LIMITED


http://smintair.com/THOUGHTS/thoughts.html
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
BA787
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 25):
may you be a smoker or not

BULLSHIT

If a non smoker set foot on one of the flights, they'd have smoked 40 by the time they got off, without even lighting one. And Passive smoking is harmful, that whle speech is BS

Tom
 
David L
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 25):
But some of their "thoughts" are rather tasteless:

Yes, I'm not buying their propaganda but it's not as if they have to persuade their target audience much.  Smile

Quoting BA787 (Reply 24):
currently I think that smoking needs to be discouraged as it causes death, not encouraged by an airline that is obviously sponsored by a major tobacco firm

Whoa, steady on! Do you think one single person would be "encouraged to smoke" by such an airline?

Quoting BA787 (Reply 24):
An airline designed solely for smokers will not go very far in my view, if anything more people will become aware of the fatal dangers of smoking and quit,

Sorry but that's nonsense. People who would use the service already smoke. How would a flight make them more aware of the dangers?

Quoting BA787 (Reply 24):
an airline that is obviously sponsored by a major tobacco firm (rather large budget don't you think?).

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I doubt that any potential customers would be worried about that.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 24):
Imagine the atmosphere, 139 smokers lighting up, it will be a m,iracle if the crew can see where to go?

Have you ever flown on a smoking flight? It used to be commonplace. There's a small matter of ventilation. While it might not have been pleasant for non-smokers, it wasn't as bad as some people make out - depending on the airline, of course.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 24):
Just a niche market that with a bit of luck will be rendered useless in the near future

What is it to you if it fails? It just means that people who aren't exactly like you lose something they want and are prepared to pay for.
 
BA787
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:17 am

Quoting David L (Reply 27):
What is it to you if it fails? It just means that people who aren't exactly like you lose something they want and are prepared to pay for.

Well for a start it might prevent them from lighting up twenty or so cigarettes which costs nearly 100 minutes of their life. (which has been proven but the British National Health Service)

Quoting David L (Reply 27):
Whoa, steady on! Do you think one single person would be "encouraged to smoke" by such an airline?

The more difficult it gets to smoke, the less people will do it and therefore the fewer people will die early or due to smoking

Quoting David L (Reply 27):
Quoting BA787 (Reply 24):
An airline designed solely for smokers will not go very far in my view, if anything more people will become aware of the fatal dangers of smoking and quit,

Sorry but that's nonsense. People who would use the service already smoke. How would a flight make them more aware of the dangers?

I mean that as generations progress, people are becoming more aware of the dangers of smoking and quitting which if enough people see sense would render this new airline useless, hence why I used a comma

Quoting David L (Reply 27):
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I doubt that any potential customers would be worried about that.

Maybe but it shows the lengths these people will go to get their produce on the streets and accepted. Spending that much money shows desperation and a senseless need to make more money by killing people

Tom
 
David L
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 28):
The more difficult it gets to smoke, the less people will do it and therefore the fewer people will die early or due to smoking

At the moment they just light up as soon as they can after the flight. I doubt a significant number give up smoking because they can't smoke for a few hours on a flight.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 28):
I mean that as generations progress, people are becoming more aware of the dangers of smoking and quitting which if enough people see sense would render this new airline useless, hence why I used a comma

Then it should fail because of a lack of customers, not just because someone thinks there might not be enough customers eventually.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 28):
Maybe but it shows the lengths these people will go to get their produce on the streets and accepted

They're aiming to cater for an existing market.

Really, anyone who doesn't like the idea of these flights should just ignore them. They're not for you!
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting 747SPA330MD11 (Reply 19):
But who will lease the planes to the airline. After one year in service the cabin is fully contaminated with yellow nicotine - return to other airline will be impossible

Nothing a little soap and water won't remove.

But I feel sorry for the crews. Imagine working in such an environment. Ugh.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
OB1504
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 30):
But I feel sorry for the crews. Imagine working in such an environment. Ugh.

I wonder what the health insurance costs will be...
 
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ua2162
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 30):
But I feel sorry for the crews. Imagine working in such an environment. Ugh.

Fair is fair - the crew should be able to smoke too. I know many flight attendants that would love to work this flight if it meant they could light up too.
 
Glareskin
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Lapper (Reply 15):
When I first saw the name of the carrier, I thought it was going to be sponsored by the mint company to keep the smokers breath fresh!!!

The name is probably on purpose similar.

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 18):
I think it's a great idea but the destination is wrong. China would be the PERFECT market for this.

It is a good idea for the targeted route as well; both Germany and Japan have a lot of smokers.

Now on a side note:this might be the moment for all the other airlines to stop saying over and over ".... is a non smoking airlines...smoking in the bathroom is prohibited....tampering with the smoke alarm is prohibited by whatever law.." Just let SMINTAIR say "we are a smoking airline!"
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
afay1
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 5:44 am

Also as an aside, if the origin/destination country allows it, or the country's whose airspace one is in, or international airspace....could one smoke something other than tobacco?
 
ualcsr
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:09 am

I'm a smoker but I remember smoking flights and it wasn't pretty. However, no one will have a gun put to their head to buy a ticket on this airline so if they succeed, more power to them.

Here's an idea---adult-only flights. Have you ever wondered why the screaming child is always seated next to or in front of you? Ugggghh!!
 
David L
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 35):
I'm a smoker but I remember smoking flights and it wasn't pretty

As I said, it depended on the airline. I remember some smokey atmospheres but they were the exception in my experience. And that was before I started smoking, i.e. when I hated the stuff (not that I "like" it now).

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 35):
However, no one will have a gun put to their head to buy a ticket on this airline so if they succeed, more power to them.

Agreed.  Smile
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:18 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5121786.stm

Before it can launch, Smintair needs to find at least 40 million euros (£27.6m) for an operating licence from the German federal aviation authority.

Mr Schoppmann is optimistic his airline will take off next summer.


Well... Let's see. As much as I hate smoking, I'm all for free choice. I'm not sure though if German labour laws allow people to be working in a smoking environment? Some countries have restrictions there.

And €40m for a licence is quite an investment for an adventure like this....
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
TheSunseeker
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:29 am

look at it like this: its a Cargo Airline, selling some first class seats as well. It could work! Very interesting project!
RSA: Dont drink and drive - take the train and get mugged
 
raventom
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:39 am

You can imagine on the news: "Smintair plane is set alight"
I love the smell of burnt kerosene!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
tommy777
Posts: 79
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:18 am

I love the all C/F layout on this 744!

I'm not sure they will find over 130 premium smokers pax (even if the Japanese are big smokers). It's hard enough to find non smokers to fill the 757/767 all C aircrafts :P

I have a feeling this airline will never get off the ground
 
tbnist03
Posts: 101
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting Lapper (Reply 15):
When I first saw the name of the carrier, I thought it was going to be sponsored by the mint company to keep the smokers breath fresh!!!



Quoting Glareskin (Reply 33):
The name is probably on purpose similar.

This airline better hope it's supposed to be similar, or I imagine lawsuits would be flung their way.

Even if this does succeed, I won't be flying this airline...smoking stinks.
-Mike
 
LO231
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:23 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 24):
It is freedom of choice, but currently I think that smoking needs to be discouraged as it causes death, not encouraged by an airline

So is drinking, ban drinking alcohol on flights if you want to be politically correct.

Regards,
LO231
Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
 
David L
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 37):
I'm not sure though if German labour laws allow people to be working in a smoking environment?

As far as I know people in Germany still work in bars and restaurants where smoking is permitted. Health and safety issues concerning the crew may be a stumbling block, though.

Quoting Raventom (Reply 39):
You can imagine on the news: "Smintair plane is set alight"

After seven years here I'm still waiting for someone to provide evidence of an accident caused by passengers smoking.

Quoting Tbnist03 (Reply 41):
Even if this does succeed, I won't be flying this airline

Good.  Smile
 
utapao
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:41 am

Didn't someone else try this a few years ago... or at least announce intentions to begin such service?? Sure seems like I've heard of this a couple of years ago.

I just always wonder why other similar ventures seem to fail. I've seen several "smoking-friendly" hotels, restaurants, etc., in various locations... but none of them seem to work.

I'm not opt to fly this carrier, but I wish them luck.
Sawasdee khrab!
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:51 am

How will they be able to tell if they have smoke in the cabin or cockpit?

I can just see the smoke pouring out of the jetway into the terminal during disembarkment.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
David L
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 45):
How will they be able to tell if they have smoke in the cabin or cockpit?

The same way they used to before smoking was stopped.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 45):
I can just see the smoke pouring out of the jetway into the terminal during disembarkment.

Why? It never used to.
 
Caspian27
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:44 am

Here's a quote from the 'About Us' section on their website:
"Non-smokers will find the cabin air more refreshing than on any other flight with any other airline, as SMINTAIR adds fresh outside air to the conditioning system! This is more expensive, as it burns more fuel, but it is seen as an additional service to our guests."

My thoughts upon reading this paragraph were, what a bunch of marketing mularkey! Number 1, I seriously doubt that non-smokers would find the air more refreshing than in a smokeless cabin. I remember flying as a kid on smoke-filled flights and the air definitely wasn't refreshing. Which brings me to point 2, the air that is provided to the PACKS (Air conditioning) is bleed air from the engines sent through heat exchangers, compressors and coolers...where are the engines getting their air from? Fresh air from the atmosphere. Without adding RAM air into the system there isn't another way to provide "fresh air."
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
jonty
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:04 am

In his thaughts the guy says:

"Since "Concorde" was taken out of the skies, the last resort of service went with it. Until the last flight you were allowed to smoke aboard and be entertained by delightful staff. "

is that true? could you really somke on concorde even in 2003???
 
Bohlman
Posts: 263
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RE: New Airline For Smokers: Smintair

Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:38 am

Since when is this true:

Quote:

With an overall budget, in excess of €100Mio/year, SMINTAIR's income from the Main Sponsors alone reflects the amount of jet-fuel for one BOEING 747-400 at a price of over US$ 100/barrel.

JetA is $100 a barrel? A 747-400 carries 1,000,000 barrels of JetA?
I'm not pro-Boeing or pro-Airbus, I'm pro-crew all the way.

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